kids say darndest things - Page 2

bitonti · 10-08-2008, 01:12 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish;2794964]Do you believe the pending Obama election will cure some of this Bit?[/QUOTE]

it is a side effect but yes, it would be a healing event for many - as they say the proof is in the pudding - not just for 5-10 year olds but for everyone who believes it couldnt be done

this is not unlike Jackie Robinson playing baseball or Doug Williams winning SB- we all know in theory that all men are equal but people, even little kids, want proof. If Obama wins it will prove a black man can be President. It will be a giant step forward in race relations, and it will start with people's perceptions of themselves.

drive through any ghetto, someone inevitably asks why it is the way it is - and i believe people's self-worth is just as much a factor as any other - and if people believe one of their own can become President, not just in theory but in practice, who knows maybe things get better for certain groups.

on the contrary if Obama loses it will be a set back, people will think a black can't get elected and my guess is a latino or woman would get to the White House before a black. It might be another 50 years before another Obama opportunity.

jetswin · 10-08-2008, 01:16 PM

[QUOTE=bitonti;2794976]it is a side effect but yes, it would be a healing event for many - as they say the proof is in the pudding - not just for 5-10 year olds but for everyone who believes it couldnt be done

this is not unlike Jackie Robinson playing baseball or Doug Williams winning SB- we all know in theory that all men are equal but people, even little kids, want proof. If Obama wins it will prove a black man can be President. It will be a giant step forward in race relations, and it will start with people's perceptions of themselves.

on the contrary if Obama loses it will be a set back, people will think a black can't get elected and my guess is a latino or woman would get to the White House before a black. It might be another 50 years before another Obama opportunity.[/QUOTE]

Why should the color of his skin matter? If it is a setback that just proves how ridiculous political correctness has become. Don't look at this as an opportunity to make amends for some perceived wrong, look at it as an opportunity to vote for the candidate of your choice, his age, gender, or skin color should not matter at all.

Unfortunately there are probably many who think this way.

Warfish · 10-08-2008, 01:22 PM

[QUOTE=bitonti;2794976]it is a side effect but yes, it would be a healing event for many - as they say the proof is in the pudding - not just for 5-10 year olds but for everyone who believes it couldnt be done

this is not unlike Jackie Robinson playing baseball or Doug Williams winning SB- we all know in theory that all men are equal but people, even little kids, want proof. If Obama wins it will prove a black man can be President. It will be a giant step forward in race relations, and it will start with people's perceptions of themselves.

drive through any ghetto, someone inevitably asks why it is the way it is - and i believe people's self-worth is just as much a factor as any other - and if people believe one of their own can become President, not just in theory but in practice, who knows maybe things get better for certain groups.

on the contrary if Obama loses it will be a set back, people will think a black can't get elected and my guess is a latino or woman would get to the White House before a black. It might be another 50 years before another Obama opportunity.[/QUOTE]

And how do you think that would effect the real world? Would African americans, via this "healing", no longer feel descriminated against or oppressed?

Not looking for theory or psychology, looking for qualtifiable real-world change that such a "healing" would engender.

And since you mention it....what about Women? They have suffered many of teh same problems as african americans (outside of slavery, of course, but a femminist may even debate that). Why do they not suffer the same "self-worth" issues? And it seems you are saying america owes Afriacan Americans a President more than it owes Women. Am I reading you wrong on that?

bitonti · 10-08-2008, 01:26 PM

[QUOTE=jetswin;2794980]Why should the color of his skin matter? If it is a setback that just proves how ridiculous political correctness has become. Don't look at this as an opportunity to make amends for some perceived wrong, look at it as an opportunity to vote for the candidate of your choice, his age, gender, or skin color should not matter at all.

Unfortunately there are probably many who think this way.[/QUOTE]

please don't take this the wrong way but it's easy for us to be dismissive and say it doesn't matter - but walk a mile in another man's shoes so to speak and things that don't matter all of a sudden do matter.

We like to say "get over it" and make it an issue of Political correctness but really it takes time for these wounds to heal. Selma Alabama was about 2 generation ago, Jim Crow was about 4 generations ago, Lynch mobs and KKK were dominant about 5 generations ago and 7 generations ago was the civil war. Maybe everyone involved should be "over it" by now but it's easier said than done.

all that being said I don't know that it does matter, maybe certain groups feel like they are downtrodden regardless of who the President is, and maybe they won't vote because of it. If they don't that's their fault.

bitonti · 10-08-2008, 01:30 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish;2794987]And how do you think that would effect the real world? Would African americans, via this "healing", no longer feel descriminated against or oppressed?

Not looking for theory or psychology, looking for qualtifiable real-world change that such a "healing" would engender.[/quote]

Maybe they would feel better and take responsibility for their actions and neighborhoods. If the sky really is the limit maybe that inspires hope and therefore improved conditions. It's very hard to predict exactly what will happen but I can predict it will be positive.

Also Chris Rock predicted if Obama loses anything you normally depend on a black person to get done won't get done on November 5. (his joke not mine)

[QUOTE=Warfish;2794987]
And since you mention it....what about Women? They have suffered many of teh same problems as african americans (outside of slavery, of course, but a femminist may even debate that). Why do they not suffer the same "self-worth" issues? And it seems you are saying america owes Afriacan Americans a President more than it owes Women. Am I reading you wrong on that?[/QUOTE]

I won't say America owes AA more than it owes women but I will say look at the issue of enfranchisement, Blacks got the right to vote many years before women got the right to vote - in many ways the woman rights movement is less further along than the black rights movement. It might not be fair but it is what it is.

jetswin · 10-08-2008, 01:32 PM

[QUOTE=bitonti;2794993]please don't take this the wrong way but it's easy for us to be dismissive and say it doesn't matter - but walk a mile in another man's shoes so to speak and things that don't matter all of a sudden do matter.

We like to say "get over it" and make it an issue of Political correctness but really it takes time for these wounds to heal. Selma Alabama was about 2 generation ago, Jim Crow was about 4 generations ago, Lynch mobs and KKK were dominant about 5 generations ago and 7 generations ago was the civil war. Maybe everyone involved should be "over it" by now but it's easier said than done.

all that being said I don't know that it does matter, maybe certain groups feel like they are downtrodden regardless of who the President is, and maybe they won't vote because of it. If they don't that's their fault.[/QUOTE]

There have been black candidates before, they have never been a true viable alternative. Obama is mostly because the Republicans dropped the ball this year. I would hate to think the country would make a decision that is not in its best interest, to appease a race of people, whoever those people may be, it's a frightening prospect.

bitonti · 10-08-2008, 02:16 PM

[QUOTE=jetswin;2795002]There have been black candidates before, they have never been a true viable alternative. Obama is mostly because the Republicans dropped the ball this year. I would hate to think the country would make a decision that is not in its best interest, to appease a race of people, whoever those people may be, it's a frightening prospect.[/QUOTE]

slice it anyway you want Obama better for USA interests than Mccain. the race issue is a side line.

Piper · 10-08-2008, 02:24 PM

[QUOTE=bitonti;2795075]slice it anyway you want Obama better for USA interests than Mccain. the race issue is a side line.[/QUOTE]

I doubt it, but hopefully the mid-term elections in 2010 bring back some sanity after Obama/Pelosi/Reid declare war on anyone making more than minimum wage. That will only happen if the republican party allow fiscal conservatives back in.

MnJetFan · 10-08-2008, 02:27 PM

[QUOTE=jetswin;2794895]My son just started Fordham Prep for HS this fall. :cool:[/QUOTE]

Nice neighborhood! I use to live near Fordham Rd!

MnJetFan · 10-08-2008, 02:32 PM

[QUOTE=Piper;2795088]I doubt it, but hopefully the mid-term elections in 2010 bring back some sanity after Obama/Pelosi/Reid declare war on anyone making more than minimum wage. That will only happen if the republican party allow fiscal conservatives back in.[/QUOTE]

Maybe this is exactly what the Republicans need. A train wreck of great proportions! :yes:

jetswin · 10-08-2008, 02:35 PM

[QUOTE=MnJetFan;2795100]Nice neighborhood! I use to live near Fordham Rd![/QUOTE]

It's really not that great around there anymore, his first day of school there was a drunk guy with no shirt on eating grass at the entrance to the University, lol

parafly · 10-08-2008, 02:39 PM

[QUOTE=MnJetFan;2795110]Maybe this is exactly what the Republicans need. A train wreck of great proportions! :yes:[/QUOTE]

For once, I actually agree with your logic. The train wreck that was 8 years of Bush and 12 years of a Republican majority in Congress is exactly why the Democrats find themselves in the position they are in today.

bitonti · 10-08-2008, 02:46 PM

[QUOTE=Piper;2795088]I doubt it, but hopefully the mid-term elections in 2010 bring back some sanity after Obama/Pelosi/Reid declare war on anyone making more than minimum wage. [/QUOTE]

honestly i'd rather see that than McCain declare war on Iran.

sameoldjets · 10-08-2008, 07:47 PM

let me share a wrong belief. i was having a discussion with some co-workers about the cultural makeup of the people who dies on 9-11. not knowing any better, i incorrectly thought that the dominent cultural group was jewish, mainly because of the devastation of the company kanter fitzgerald. boy was i wrong. the actual cultural makeup mirrored that of ny city almost to a tee.

the point is that our government should be similarly structured with regard to cultures and there is nothing inherently wrong with having our government made of a majority of white protestants of horthern europe. that's just the way it is and there is no way can legislate these things without adversely impacting our freedoms.

jetswin · 10-08-2008, 08:26 PM

[QUOTE=sameoldjets;2795459]let me share a wrong belief. i was having a discussion with some co-workers about the cultural makeup of the people who dies on 9-11. not knowing any better, i incorrectly thought that the dominent cultural group was jewish, mainly because of the devastation of the company kanter fitzgerald. boy was i wrong. the actual cultural makeup mirrored that of ny city almost to a tee.

the point is that our government should be similarly structured with regard to cultures and there is nothing inherently wrong with having our government made of a majority of white protestants of horthern europe. that's just the way it is and there is no way can legislate these things without adversely impacting our freedoms.[/QUOTE]

The firm was Cantor Fitzgerald, and although Bernie Cantor, who started the firm, was jewish that had little to do with the makeup of the company.

10-08-2008, 01:22 PM	#23
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=bitonti;2794976]it is a side effect but yes, it would be a healing event for many - as they say the proof is in the pudding - not just for 5-10 year olds but for everyone who believes it couldnt be done this is not unlike Jackie Robinson playing baseball or Doug Williams winning SB- we all know in theory that all men are equal but people, even little kids, want proof. If Obama wins it will prove a black man can be President. It will be a giant step forward in race relations, and it will start with people's perceptions of themselves. drive through any ghetto, someone inevitably asks why it is the way it is - and i believe people's self-worth is just as much a factor as any other - and if people believe one of their own can become President, not just in theory but in practice, who knows maybe things get better for certain groups. on the contrary if Obama loses it will be a set back, people will think a black can't get elected and my guess is a latino or woman would get to the White House before a black. It might be another 50 years before another Obama opportunity.[/QUOTE] And how do you think that would effect the real world? Would African americans, via this "healing", no longer feel descriminated against or oppressed? Not looking for theory or psychology, looking for qualtifiable real-world change that such a "healing" would engender. And since you mention it....what about Women? They have suffered many of teh same problems as african americans (outside of slavery, of course, but a femminist may even debate that). Why do they not suffer the same "self-worth" issues? And it seems you are saying america owes Afriacan Americans a President more than it owes Women. Am I reading you wrong on that? Last edited by Warfish; 10-08-2008 at 01:24 PM.

10-08-2008, 01:12 PM	#21
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=Warfish;2794964]Do you believe the pending Obama election will cure some of this Bit?[/QUOTE] it is a side effect but yes, it would be a healing event for many - as they say the proof is in the pudding - not just for 5-10 year olds but for everyone who believes it couldnt be done this is not unlike Jackie Robinson playing baseball or Doug Williams winning SB- we all know in theory that all men are equal but people, even little kids, want proof. If Obama wins it will prove a black man can be President. It will be a giant step forward in race relations, and it will start with people's perceptions of themselves. drive through any ghetto, someone inevitably asks why it is the way it is - and i believe people's self-worth is just as much a factor as any other - and if people believe one of their own can become President, not just in theory but in practice, who knows maybe things get better for certain groups. on the contrary if Obama loses it will be a set back, people will think a black can't get elected and my guess is a latino or woman would get to the White House before a black. It might be another 50 years before another Obama opportunity.

10-08-2008, 01:16 PM	#22
jetswin stumblin mumblin butt fumblin Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Westchester Co. Posts: 35,458	[QUOTE=bitonti;2794976]it is a side effect but yes, it would be a healing event for many - as they say the proof is in the pudding - not just for 5-10 year olds but for everyone who believes it couldnt be done this is not unlike Jackie Robinson playing baseball or Doug Williams winning SB- we all know in theory that all men are equal but people, even little kids, want proof. If Obama wins it will prove a black man can be President. It will be a giant step forward in race relations, and it will start with people's perceptions of themselves. on the contrary if Obama loses it will be a set back, people will think a black can't get elected and my guess is a latino or woman would get to the White House before a black. It might be another 50 years before another Obama opportunity.[/QUOTE] Why should the color of his skin matter? If it is a setback that just proves how ridiculous political correctness has become. Don't look at this as an opportunity to make amends for some perceived wrong, look at it as an opportunity to vote for the candidate of your choice, his age, gender, or skin color should not matter at all. Unfortunately there are probably many who think this way.

10-08-2008, 01:26 PM	#24
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=jetswin;2794980]Why should the color of his skin matter? If it is a setback that just proves how ridiculous political correctness has become. Don't look at this as an opportunity to make amends for some perceived wrong, look at it as an opportunity to vote for the candidate of your choice, his age, gender, or skin color should not matter at all. Unfortunately there are probably many who think this way.[/QUOTE] please don't take this the wrong way but it's easy for us to be dismissive and say it doesn't matter - but walk a mile in another man's shoes so to speak and things that don't matter all of a sudden do matter. We like to say "get over it" and make it an issue of Political correctness but really it takes time for these wounds to heal. Selma Alabama was about 2 generation ago, Jim Crow was about 4 generations ago, Lynch mobs and KKK were dominant about 5 generations ago and 7 generations ago was the civil war. Maybe everyone involved should be "over it" by now but it's easier said than done. all that being said I don't know that it does matter, maybe certain groups feel like they are downtrodden regardless of who the President is, and maybe they won't vote because of it. If they don't that's their fault.

10-08-2008, 01:30 PM	#25
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=Warfish;2794987]And how do you think that would effect the real world? Would African americans, via this "healing", no longer feel descriminated against or oppressed? Not looking for theory or psychology, looking for qualtifiable real-world change that such a "healing" would engender.[/quote] Maybe they would feel better and take responsibility for their actions and neighborhoods. If the sky really is the limit maybe that inspires hope and therefore improved conditions. It's very hard to predict exactly what will happen but I can predict it will be positive. Also Chris Rock predicted if Obama loses anything you normally depend on a black person to get done won't get done on November 5. (his joke not mine) [QUOTE=Warfish;2794987] And since you mention it....what about Women? They have suffered many of teh same problems as african americans (outside of slavery, of course, but a femminist may even debate that). Why do they not suffer the same "self-worth" issues? And it seems you are saying america owes Afriacan Americans a President more than it owes Women. Am I reading you wrong on that?[/QUOTE] I won't say America owes AA more than it owes women but I will say look at the issue of enfranchisement, Blacks got the right to vote many years before women got the right to vote - in many ways the woman rights movement is less further along than the black rights movement. It might not be fair but it is what it is.

10-08-2008, 01:32 PM	#26
jetswin stumblin mumblin butt fumblin Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Westchester Co. Posts: 35,458	[QUOTE=bitonti;2794993]please don't take this the wrong way but it's easy for us to be dismissive and say it doesn't matter - but walk a mile in another man's shoes so to speak and things that don't matter all of a sudden do matter. We like to say "get over it" and make it an issue of Political correctness but really it takes time for these wounds to heal. Selma Alabama was about 2 generation ago, Jim Crow was about 4 generations ago, Lynch mobs and KKK were dominant about 5 generations ago and 7 generations ago was the civil war. Maybe everyone involved should be "over it" by now but it's easier said than done. all that being said I don't know that it does matter, maybe certain groups feel like they are downtrodden regardless of who the President is, and maybe they won't vote because of it. If they don't that's their fault.[/QUOTE] There have been black candidates before, they have never been a true viable alternative. Obama is mostly because the Republicans dropped the ball this year. I would hate to think the country would make a decision that is not in its best interest, to appease a race of people, whoever those people may be, it's a frightening prospect.

10-08-2008, 02:16 PM	#27
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=jetswin;2795002]There have been black candidates before, they have never been a true viable alternative. Obama is mostly because the Republicans dropped the ball this year. I would hate to think the country would make a decision that is not in its best interest, to appease a race of people, whoever those people may be, it's a frightening prospect.[/QUOTE] slice it anyway you want Obama better for USA interests than Mccain. the race issue is a side line.

10-08-2008, 02:24 PM	#28
Piper Hall Of Fame Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: L.I. NY (where the Jets used to be from) Posts: 13,197	[QUOTE=bitonti;2795075]slice it anyway you want Obama better for USA interests than Mccain. the race issue is a side line.[/QUOTE] I doubt it, but hopefully the mid-term elections in 2010 bring back some sanity after Obama/Pelosi/Reid declare war on anyone making more than minimum wage. That will only happen if the republican party allow fiscal conservatives back in.

10-08-2008, 02:27 PM	#29
MnJetFan All League Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,302	[QUOTE=jetswin;2794895]My son just started Fordham Prep for HS this fall. :cool:[/QUOTE] Nice neighborhood! I use to live near Fordham Rd!

10-08-2008, 02:32 PM	#30
MnJetFan All League Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,302	[QUOTE=Piper;2795088]I doubt it, but hopefully the mid-term elections in 2010 bring back some sanity after Obama/Pelosi/Reid declare war on anyone making more than minimum wage. That will only happen if the republican party allow fiscal conservatives back in.[/QUOTE] Maybe this is exactly what the Republicans need. A train wreck of great proportions! :yes:

10-08-2008, 02:35 PM	#31
jetswin stumblin mumblin butt fumblin Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Westchester Co. Posts: 35,458	[QUOTE=MnJetFan;2795100]Nice neighborhood! I use to live near Fordham Rd![/QUOTE] It's really not that great around there anymore, his first day of school there was a drunk guy with no shirt on eating grass at the entrance to the University, lol

10-08-2008, 02:39 PM	#32
parafly so why side with anything? All Pro Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 6,280	[QUOTE=MnJetFan;2795110]Maybe this is exactly what the Republicans need. A train wreck of great proportions! :yes:[/QUOTE] For once, I actually agree with your logic. The train wreck that was 8 years of Bush and 12 years of a Republican majority in Congress is exactly why the Democrats find themselves in the position they are in today.

10-08-2008, 02:46 PM	#33
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=Piper;2795088]I doubt it, but hopefully the mid-term elections in 2010 bring back some sanity after Obama/Pelosi/Reid declare war on anyone making more than minimum wage. [/QUOTE] honestly i'd rather see that than McCain declare war on Iran.

10-08-2008, 07:47 PM	#34
sameoldjets All Pro Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,477	let me share a wrong belief. i was having a discussion with some co-workers about the cultural makeup of the people who dies on 9-11. not knowing any better, i incorrectly thought that the dominent cultural group was jewish, mainly because of the devastation of the company kanter fitzgerald. boy was i wrong. the actual cultural makeup mirrored that of ny city almost to a tee. the point is that our government should be similarly structured with regard to cultures and there is nothing inherently wrong with having our government made of a majority of white protestants of horthern europe. that's just the way it is and there is no way can legislate these things without adversely impacting our freedoms.

10-08-2008, 08:26 PM	#35
jetswin stumblin mumblin butt fumblin Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Westchester Co. Posts: 35,458	[QUOTE=sameoldjets;2795459]let me share a wrong belief. i was having a discussion with some co-workers about the cultural makeup of the people who dies on 9-11. not knowing any better, i incorrectly thought that the dominent cultural group was jewish, mainly because of the devastation of the company kanter fitzgerald. boy was i wrong. the actual cultural makeup mirrored that of ny city almost to a tee. the point is that our government should be similarly structured with regard to cultures and there is nothing inherently wrong with having our government made of a majority of white protestants of horthern europe. that's just the way it is and there is no way can legislate these things without adversely impacting our freedoms.[/QUOTE] The firm was Cantor Fitzgerald, and although Bernie Cantor, who started the firm, was jewish that had little to do with the makeup of the company.