Should some people not vote? - Page 3

RutgersJetFan · 10-13-2008, 02:23 PM

[QUOTE=pauliec;2802636]I'm not disputing the [B]right [/B]to vote. But should someone ever say, "You know what? I don't know enough about these guys to make an informed decision. I'm not going to vote."[/QUOTE]

And, judging from the level of intelligence among the people you're addressing with this topic, what leads you to believe that they're mentally capable of following that line of logic?

cr726 · 10-13-2008, 02:25 PM

Why do you think the cadidates go on the View and all the other BS shows? Think they want to get their message out? No, they want to be liked and could care less if you know what they will do once in office.

[QUOTE=RutgersJetFan;2803106]And, judging from the level of intelligence among the people you're addressing with this topic, what leads you to believe that they're mentally capable of following that line of logic?[/QUOTE]

piney · 10-13-2008, 02:30 PM

[QUOTE=pauliec;2802636]I'm not disputing the [B]right [/B]to vote. But should someone ever say, "You know what? I don't know enough about these guys to make an informed decision. I'm not going to vote."[/QUOTE]

sing that logic, then shouldn't people who may be racist, homophobic, etc. not vote?

Wouldn't those viewpoints tend to lead someone to not truly make an informed decision?

JetsFan2012 · 10-13-2008, 02:32 PM

[QUOTE=piney;2803118]sing that logic, then shouldn't people who may be racist, homophobic, etc. not vote?

Wouldn't those viewpoints tend to lead someone to not truly make an informed decision?[/QUOTE]

Well, yes, obviously. Someone who is voting based on race isn't making the best decision for this country.

cr726 · 10-13-2008, 02:34 PM

Yea how many times has race played a part in a Presidential election?

[QUOTE=pauliec;2803121]Well, yes, obviously. Someone who is voting based on race isn't making the best decision for this country.[/QUOTE]

RutgersJetFan · 10-13-2008, 02:38 PM

[QUOTE=pauliec;2803121]Well, yes, obviously. Someone who is voting based on race isn't making the best decision for this country.[/QUOTE]

So what are you proposing? An entrance exam for voter registration? Or are you just wishing for idiots to have the capability of making smart decisions?

If your point is the former, then that's not very democratic. And if it's the latter, then I don't know what to tell you. I guess I just don't understand where you're going with all of this, other than the fact that you saw a video geared to make a bunch of young Obama supporters look stupid and decided to disguise it with an unrealistic concept of self-restricted voting.

PlumberKhan · 10-13-2008, 02:38 PM

[QUOTE=cr726;2803125]Yea how many times has race played a part in a Presidential election?[/QUOTE]

42!

[IMG]http://albums.mouseplanet.com/MPPromotional/hitchhikers2.jpg[/IMG]

JetsFan2012 · 10-13-2008, 02:59 PM

[QUOTE=RutgersJetFan;2803128]So what are you proposing? An entrance exam for voter registration? Or are you just wishing for idiots to have the capability of making smart decisions?

If your point is the former, then that's not very democratic. And if it's the latter, then I don't know what to tell you. I guess I just don't understand where you're going with all of this, other than the fact that you saw a video geared to make a bunch of young Obama supporters look stupid and decided to disguise it with an unrealistic concept of self-restricted voting.[/QUOTE]

I'm not proposing anything, I'm not on some crusade to disenfranchise voters, and I didn't intend this to be veiled jab at Obama voters. I just thought it was an interesting video and I posted it.

It's upsetting how stupid people are in this country, and that while voting is a right, it's also an awesome privilege that people should take seriously. We're all very spoiled in this country.

vicious89x · 10-13-2008, 03:06 PM

[QUOTE=pauliec;2803158]I'm not proposing anything, I'm not on some crusade to disenfranchise voters, and I didn't intend this to be veiled jab at Obama voters. I just thought it was an interesting video and I posted it.

It's upsetting how stupid people are in this country, and that while voting is a right, it's also an awesome privilege that people should take seriously. We're all very spoiled in this country.[/QUOTE]

And the sad part is both parties prey on the stupid and the ignorant. Because quite frankly there's a lot more uninformed ignorant people then well informed people who truly care. JMO.

RutgersJetFan · 10-13-2008, 03:12 PM

[QUOTE=pauliec;2803158]

It's upsetting how stupid people are in this country, and that while voting is a right, it's also an awesome privilege that people should take seriously. We're all very spoiled in this country.[/QUOTE]

The level of intelligence across the majority of voters is offset by the civil mindset that comes with everything. Though people might be uninformed, they're certainly respectful of the process that enables them.

The 2000 election is the perfect example of this. In so many other countries across the world, tanks would have aligned the streets and there would have been would have been a serious power struggle that would most likely have incited an absurd level of violence. Not here, everyone went about their business the next day and shrugged it off.

There's no gangs waiting outside the ballot boxes, no threat of physical violence or forced hardship from supporters...there's simply options. So what you consider a reasonable mentality towards uninformed voters, I consider simply one of the best parts about the American experiment. Everyone, from the lowly moron to the most educated guy you can find, has a say, and they have the right to voice whatever their opinion they have (no matter how stupid someone else considers it), to whoever they want. I like the fact that people don't have to consider voting a privilege, because it SHOULD be (and is) considered a right, even to the uninformed person. Such is Democracy...

CTM · 10-13-2008, 03:19 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish;2802562]I think Paulie's POINT is a valid one.

While we in here like to think of ourselves as at least somewhat well-informed, there is a huge portion of our voting population who, if you really checked, is laughably, horrificly, stunningly UNINFORMED, almost to the level of abject ignorance.

No, of course they're not all Obama (or Democratic) voters. ****, go to any number of right-wing churches and you'll find the same.

But for every one of them, they kill and make meaningless, YOUR vote or MY vote.

I'm not saying they shouldn't vote, or be allowed to vote or that there is any soultion to this issue.....but the point of how deeply dumb and abjectly uninformed a wide swatch of our population is, is in my opinion an unquestionable fact.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. It's really what's wrong this country at its core. We're fastly becoming a nation of idiots..

CTM · 10-13-2008, 03:22 PM

[QUOTE=nuu faaola;2802647]In a vacuum, you may have a point.

[B]But, unfortunately, it seems that often the least informed are among the most motivated to pull the lever, in my experience.[/B][/QUOTE]

Funny, cause last time I looked they also breed the most, on average..

CTM · 10-13-2008, 03:27 PM

[QUOTE=Roger Vick;2802745]Paulie -

With the right to vote, also comes the right not to vote. Plenty of people will say, as you put it: "You know what? I don't know enough about these guys to make an informed decision. I'm not going to vote."

Or, they'll say "I don't care." "My vote doesn't make a difference." Or some variation thereof. And that's fine.

There are a couple of problems when we start to think about our nation as a democracy.

First of all, it's not a democracy. It's a republic. Huge difference. In a democracy, every vote counts and majority rules. In a republic, individual entities (which we call states) elect national officials that they feel will best represent the people within their constituency.

I can see the logic in setting up a republic back in the late 1700s. Back then, interstate commerce was not a big factor. We did not have the infrastructure in place (and obviously the technology) to facilitate true interstate commerce. So, each state pretty much had its own economy and it's own views to represent. They also didn't have the technology to track each individual vote. It made sense, therefore, to give each state a certain number of electorates and have those electorates go represent their state in selecting the next President.

It makes no sense today. State economies are so interconnected that where we live no longer determines what is best for us. I live in Connecticut, but most of my customers are in the MidAtlantic and MidWest. My interests, and my family's well being, are tied to factors well outside of Connecticut. Yet, my state will cast all it's votes for one party, as it everyone in the state voted for that party. In this day and age, that's ridiculous.

The other major problem is the two-party system. It sets up a situation where people don't have to find reasons to support their candidate. All they have to do is find reasons to trash the other candidate. It makes for bad decisions, and bad politics.

Imagine if their were four or five legitimate candidates right now. You wouldn't be able to cast a vote that was simply "Anti-McCain", or "Anti-Obama". You'd have a real choice. And you'd have to really look at what each candidate represented. We don't have that today. The system we have today allows a lot of lazy people to simply say "I support candidate X because he's not candidate Y." Eventually, that argument reduces itself to: "Candidate X is great, and candidate Y sucks." It really dumbs down the decision making process, causes a lot of unnecessary division in the country, and we all get hurt in the end.[/QUOTE]

Interesting.

I guess eliminating the republic would cut pork, as these slobs will no longer be able to withhold their vote until one of their pet projects for their constituencies

jr17892 · 10-13-2008, 03:34 PM

[QUOTE=pauliec;2802636]I'm not disputing the [B]right [/B]to vote. But should someone ever say, "You know what? I don't know enough about these guys to make an informed decision. I'm not going to vote."[/QUOTE]

You are absolutely right. We might be better off if uninformed people were self aware enough to make that judgement. Or better yet, recognize their ignorance and educate themselves about the issues before the election. However, ironically, being that self aware requires a degree of intelligence and usually isn't the kind of thing you find in a moron who thinks there are 50 Senators from each state or that Roe v. Wade was about "a black guy and a white guy". I weep for our future.

CTM · 10-13-2008, 03:36 PM

[QUOTE=pauliec;2802429]

[url]

JetsFan2012 · 10-13-2008, 03:36 PM

[QUOTE=RutgersJetFan;2803172]The level of intelligence across the majority of voters is offset by the civil mindset that comes with everything. Though people might be uninformed, they're certainly respectful of the process that enables them.

The 2000 election is the perfect example of this. In so many other countries across the world, tanks would have aligned the streets and there would have been would have been a serious power struggle that would most likely have incited an absurd level of violence. Not here, everyone went about their business the next day and shrugged it off.

There's no gangs waiting outside the ballot boxes, no threat of physical violence or forced hardship from supporters...there's simply options. So what you consider a reasonable mentality towards uninformed voters, I consider simply one of the best parts about the American experiment. Everyone, from the lowly moron to the most educated guy you can find, has a say, and they have the right to voice whatever their opinion they have (no matter how stupid someone else considers it), to whoever they want. I like the fact that people don't have to consider voting a privilege, because it SHOULD be (and is) considered a right, even to the uninformed person. Such is Democracy...[/QUOTE]

There are no tanks, guns, or violence because the whole system is heavily regulated and mandated with election laws. As a country, we really got the whole process down to a science, starting with local election regulations going all the way up to intervention from the Supreme Court, if need be. And, in my opinion, this is what spoils us.

People just shrug their shoulders and go about their business because they think this is the norm. We have such a civil, law abiding society due to the spirit of democracy that no one would even think about having a violent revolt during an election.

We have mastered the system, and it is indeed a great system, but it's one that people definitely take for granted.

PlumberKhan · 10-13-2008, 03:43 PM

[QUOTE=CTM;2803191]Funny, cause last time I looked they also breed the most, on average..[/QUOTE]

Smart people think sex is yucky....:D

Jetsin1999 · 10-13-2008, 03:45 PM

this video is slamming the young voters of being stupid. thats cool... but you should have followed suit with the youtube video of the old lady calling obama an arab. now that was just the capital of stupidity.

jetgreen13 · 10-13-2008, 09:37 PM

[QUOTE=BushyTheBeaver;2802445]Yes you do.[/QUOTE]
yes he clearly does..

JetsFan2012 · 10-13-2008, 09:50 PM

[QUOTE=jetgreen13;2803637]yes he clearly does..[/QUOTE]

What, is everyone speaking in code?

Bushy, if you have something to say, stop being coy about it.

10-13-2008, 02:59 PM	#48
JetsFan2012 Waterboy Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 0	[QUOTE=RutgersJetFan;2803128]So what are you proposing? An entrance exam for voter registration? Or are you just wishing for idiots to have the capability of making smart decisions? If your point is the former, then that's not very democratic. And if it's the latter, then I don't know what to tell you. I guess I just don't understand where you're going with all of this, other than the fact that you saw a video geared to make a bunch of young Obama supporters look stupid and decided to disguise it with an unrealistic concept of self-restricted voting.[/QUOTE] I'm not proposing anything, I'm not on some crusade to disenfranchise voters, and I didn't intend this to be veiled jab at Obama voters. I just thought it was an interesting video and I posted it. It's upsetting how stupid people are in this country, and that while voting is a right, it's also an awesome privilege that people should take seriously. We're all very spoiled in this country. Last edited by JetsFan2012; 10-13-2008 at 03:01 PM.

10-13-2008, 03:12 PM	#50
RutgersJetFan Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 29,953	[QUOTE=pauliec;2803158] It's upsetting how stupid people are in this country, and that while voting is a right, it's also an awesome privilege that people should take seriously. We're all very spoiled in this country.[/QUOTE] The level of intelligence across the majority of voters is offset by the civil mindset that comes with everything. Though people might be uninformed, they're certainly respectful of the process that enables them. The 2000 election is the perfect example of this. In so many other countries across the world, tanks would have aligned the streets and there would have been would have been a serious power struggle that would most likely have incited an absurd level of violence. Not here, everyone went about their business the next day and shrugged it off. There's no gangs waiting outside the ballot boxes, no threat of physical violence or forced hardship from supporters...there's simply options. So what you consider a reasonable mentality towards uninformed voters, I consider simply one of the best parts about the American experiment. Everyone, from the lowly moron to the most educated guy you can find, has a say, and they have the right to voice whatever their opinion they have (no matter how stupid someone else considers it), to whoever they want. I like the fact that people don't have to consider voting a privilege, because it SHOULD be (and is) considered a right, even to the uninformed person. Such is Democracy... Last edited by RutgersJetFan; 10-13-2008 at 03:17 PM.

10-13-2008, 02:23 PM	#41
RutgersJetFan Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 29,953	[QUOTE=pauliec;2802636]I'm not disputing the [B]right [/B]to vote. But should someone ever say, "You know what? I don't know enough about these guys to make an informed decision. I'm not going to vote."[/QUOTE] And, judging from the level of intelligence among the people you're addressing with this topic, what leads you to believe that they're mentally capable of following that line of logic?

10-13-2008, 02:25 PM	#42
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,532	Why do you think the cadidates go on the View and all the other BS shows? Think they want to get their message out? No, they want to be liked and could care less if you know what they will do once in office. [QUOTE=RutgersJetFan;2803106]And, judging from the level of intelligence among the people you're addressing with this topic, what leads you to believe that they're mentally capable of following that line of logic?[/QUOTE]

10-13-2008, 02:30 PM	#43
piney hip deep in dirty diapers All League Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,618	[QUOTE=pauliec;2802636]I'm not disputing the [B]right [/B]to vote. But should someone ever say, "You know what? I don't know enough about these guys to make an informed decision. I'm not going to vote."[/QUOTE] sing that logic, then shouldn't people who may be racist, homophobic, etc. not vote? Wouldn't those viewpoints tend to lead someone to not truly make an informed decision?

10-13-2008, 02:32 PM	#44
JetsFan2012 Waterboy Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 0	[QUOTE=piney;2803118]sing that logic, then shouldn't people who may be racist, homophobic, etc. not vote? Wouldn't those viewpoints tend to lead someone to not truly make an informed decision?[/QUOTE] Well, yes, obviously. Someone who is voting based on race isn't making the best decision for this country.

10-13-2008, 02:34 PM	#45
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,532	Yea how many times has race played a part in a Presidential election? [QUOTE=pauliec;2803121]Well, yes, obviously. Someone who is voting based on race isn't making the best decision for this country.[/QUOTE]

10-13-2008, 02:38 PM	#46
RutgersJetFan Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 29,953	[QUOTE=pauliec;2803121]Well, yes, obviously. Someone who is voting based on race isn't making the best decision for this country.[/QUOTE] So what are you proposing? An entrance exam for voter registration? Or are you just wishing for idiots to have the capability of making smart decisions? If your point is the former, then that's not very democratic. And if it's the latter, then I don't know what to tell you. I guess I just don't understand where you're going with all of this, other than the fact that you saw a video geared to make a bunch of young Obama supporters look stupid and decided to disguise it with an unrealistic concept of self-restricted voting.

10-13-2008, 02:38 PM	#47
PlumberKhan HAIL SATAN! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,081	[QUOTE=cr726;2803125]Yea how many times has race played a part in a Presidential election?[/QUOTE] 42! [IMG]http://albums.mouseplanet.com/MPPromotional/hitchhikers2.jpg[/IMG]

10-13-2008, 03:06 PM	#49
vicious89x Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,218	[QUOTE=pauliec;2803158]I'm not proposing anything, I'm not on some crusade to disenfranchise voters, and I didn't intend this to be veiled jab at Obama voters. I just thought it was an interesting video and I posted it. It's upsetting how stupid people are in this country, and that while voting is a right, it's also an awesome privilege that people should take seriously. We're all very spoiled in this country.[/QUOTE] And the sad part is both parties prey on the stupid and the ignorant. Because quite frankly there's a lot more uninformed ignorant people then well informed people who truly care. JMO.

10-13-2008, 03:19 PM	#51
CTM Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Not bababooey and I resent the implication Posts: 21,029	[QUOTE=Warfish;2802562]I think Paulie's POINT is a valid one. While we in here like to think of ourselves as at least somewhat well-informed, there is a huge portion of our voting population who, if you really checked, is laughably, horrificly, stunningly UNINFORMED, almost to the level of abject ignorance. No, of course they're not all Obama (or Democratic) voters. ****, go to any number of right-wing churches and you'll find the same. But for every one of them, they kill and make meaningless, YOUR vote or MY vote. I'm not saying they shouldn't vote, or be allowed to vote or that there is any soultion to this issue.....but the point of how deeply dumb and abjectly uninformed a wide swatch of our population is, is in my opinion an unquestionable fact.[/QUOTE] Agreed. It's really what's wrong this country at its core. We're fastly becoming a nation of idiots..

10-13-2008, 03:22 PM	#52
CTM Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Not bababooey and I resent the implication Posts: 21,029	[QUOTE=nuu faaola;2802647]In a vacuum, you may have a point. [B]But, unfortunately, it seems that often the least informed are among the most motivated to pull the lever, in my experience.[/B][/QUOTE] Funny, cause last time I looked they also breed the most, on average..

10-13-2008, 03:27 PM	#53
CTM Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Not bababooey and I resent the implication Posts: 21,029	[QUOTE=Roger Vick;2802745]Paulie - With the right to vote, also comes the right not to vote. Plenty of people will say, as you put it: "You know what? I don't know enough about these guys to make an informed decision. I'm not going to vote." Or, they'll say "I don't care." "My vote doesn't make a difference." Or some variation thereof. And that's fine. There are a couple of problems when we start to think about our nation as a democracy. First of all, it's not a democracy. It's a republic. Huge difference. In a democracy, every vote counts and majority rules. In a republic, individual entities (which we call states) elect national officials that they feel will best represent the people within their constituency. I can see the logic in setting up a republic back in the late 1700s. Back then, interstate commerce was not a big factor. We did not have the infrastructure in place (and obviously the technology) to facilitate true interstate commerce. So, each state pretty much had its own economy and it's own views to represent. They also didn't have the technology to track each individual vote. It made sense, therefore, to give each state a certain number of electorates and have those electorates go represent their state in selecting the next President. It makes no sense today. State economies are so interconnected that where we live no longer determines what is best for us. I live in Connecticut, but most of my customers are in the MidAtlantic and MidWest. My interests, and my family's well being, are tied to factors well outside of Connecticut. Yet, my state will cast all it's votes for one party, as it everyone in the state voted for that party. In this day and age, that's ridiculous. The other major problem is the two-party system. It sets up a situation where people don't have to find reasons to support their candidate. All they have to do is find reasons to trash the other candidate. It makes for bad decisions, and bad politics. Imagine if their were four or five legitimate candidates right now. You wouldn't be able to cast a vote that was simply "Anti-McCain", or "Anti-Obama". You'd have a real choice. And you'd have to really look at what each candidate represented. We don't have that today. The system we have today allows a lot of lazy people to simply say "I support candidate X because he's not candidate Y." Eventually, that argument reduces itself to: "Candidate X is great, and candidate Y sucks." It really dumbs down the decision making process, causes a lot of unnecessary division in the country, and we all get hurt in the end.[/QUOTE] Interesting. I guess eliminating the republic would cut pork, as these slobs will no longer be able to withhold their vote until one of their pet projects for their constituencies

10-13-2008, 03:34 PM	#54
jr17892 tired of the hype. Let's just f'n play already. All League Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 850	[QUOTE=pauliec;2802636]I'm not disputing the [B]right [/B]to vote. But should someone ever say, "You know what? I don't know enough about these guys to make an informed decision. I'm not going to vote."[/QUOTE] You are absolutely right. We might be better off if uninformed people were self aware enough to make that judgement. Or better yet, recognize their ignorance and educate themselves about the issues before the election. However, ironically, being that self aware requires a degree of intelligence and usually isn't the kind of thing you find in a moron who thinks there are 50 Senators from each state or that Roe v. Wade was about "a black guy and a white guy". I weep for our future.

10-13-2008, 03:36 PM	#55
CTM Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Not bababooey and I resent the implication Posts: 21,029	[QUOTE=pauliec;2802429] [url]

10-13-2008, 03:43 PM	#57
PlumberKhan HAIL SATAN! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,081	[QUOTE=CTM;2803191]Funny, cause last time I looked they also breed the most, on average..[/QUOTE] Smart people think sex is yucky....:D

10-13-2008, 03:45 PM	#58
Jetsin1999 Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 449	this video is slamming the young voters of being stupid. thats cool... but you should have followed suit with the youtube video of the old lady calling obama an arab. now that was just the capital of stupidity.

10-13-2008, 09:37 PM	#59
jetgreen13 Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: transplanted new yorker in maryland Posts: 4,438	[QUOTE=BushyTheBeaver;2802445]Yes you do.[/QUOTE] yes he clearly does..

10-13-2008, 09:50 PM	#60
JetsFan2012 Waterboy Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 0	[QUOTE=jetgreen13;2803637]yes he clearly does..[/QUOTE] What, is everyone speaking in code? Bushy, if you have something to say, stop being coy about it.