The African American Vote - Page 3

32green · 11-05-2008, 07:35 PM

[QUOTE=piney;2844483]

The conservatives use language like "we believe in individual responsibility, not handouts" alienates most minorities, because right or wrong it is perceived as an attack on minorities.

[/QUOTE]

And why is that, exactly?

Piper · 11-05-2008, 07:41 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish;2843986]I'm asking what the "right" can do to change a 90-97% to 3% defeat in this vital group every single election, policy wise?[/QUOTE]

Nothing. Black republicans/conservatives like Condi Rice and Clarence Thomas are ridiculed and castigated by their own race as the democrats continue to pander to them.

sameoldjets · 11-05-2008, 07:54 PM

warfish's question is very interesting. i certainly don't have any answer. i can only comment that i find it very strange that the gop is the group that actually freed them during the civil war and the states righters, mostly democrats were the ones that wanted them kept enslaved. maybe they were resentful because in many cases they had it better as slaves instead of as free men. and don't laugh because at the end of the civil war there was quite a bit of resentment towards the newly freed men and many died at the hands of the extremist groups like the kkk. interesting that the party of lincoln is now dominated by the states rights states of the confederacy.

another part of this question is why are the northeast states so firmly in the democratic party. this is simply amazing. if there was one group of states that get burned by taxes and poor government services it is the northeast. we get whacked with high state and local taxes, high living costs, and because the regional percapita income is high, higher regional income taxes. why the dems and why obama? we must be a bunch of masochists.

but like the AA aversion to the republicans, sometims peope take comfort in the devil they know instead of the devil they don't. maybe the people just don't know any other way and stay in their respective milieus more because of fear of the unknown than any rational thought. i would have thought by now that the northeast states would have learned the folly of keeping clingons like teddy and chris and rosa and barney in power for years and years and years. same thing with the state governments as well. imo this doessn't speak well for the intelligence of the region.

32green · 11-05-2008, 07:59 PM

[QUOTE=Piper;2844523]Nothing. Black republicans/conservatives like Condi Rice and Clarence Thomas are ridiculed and castigated by their own race as the democrats continue to pander to them.[/QUOTE]

+1. Aided and abetted by the lib media machine.

And its a cynically patronizing pandering that ultimately betrays the people whose cause they purport to champion. As racist as anything the left accuses the Republicans of, IMHO.

piney · 11-05-2008, 08:04 PM

[QUOTE=32green;2844512]And why is that, exactly?[/QUOTE]

I thought I said that..

[QUOTE]because right or wrong it is perceived as an attack on minorities.[/QUOTE]

why is it perceived so...who knows..but complaining about why won't help

bitonti · 11-05-2008, 08:22 PM

btw since this is the race thread it should be noted that the numbers were crunched and it wasn't really the blacks, latino or the youth that powered Obama. He only got slightly higher returns from those groups compared to kerry.

no the real force behind the election was what they are calling the "buffett effect" - a reverse Bradley effect - [b]white men[/b] telling their country club buddies they will vote McCain but actually voting Obama. Check the stats, Obama won among men and women! that's literally 2 key demographics ;)

[QUOTE=dermlord;2844458] If Obama was running on republican ticket, there is no doubt in my mind he would have been LAbeled "not really black".[/QUOTE]

i'll file this gem under "if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle"

doggin94it · 11-05-2008, 10:39 PM

[quote=piney;2844483]I think the problem is that for the most part, what many in the black community think are vital to the survival and growth of the inner city the Republicans are seemingly against. (welfare/social programs/etc).

I think the Republicans have to stop using the language and rhetoric that most conservatives use which basically gives the impression that they think people who are on welfare are lazy and criminal.

Don't believe me, look at Michele Malkin's column in the Post today...Peggy the Moocher is the happiest person in America today.

Yeesh...how do you expect to win over a group when you constantly make it seems as though you think that group is lazy?

The conservatives use language like "we believe in individual responsibility, not handouts" alienates most minorities, because right or wrong it is perceived as an attack on minorities.

The Republicans have to change the way they discuss these social programs, and not necessarily their goals.

They need to stress reforming welfare not eliminating it. They need to talk about equality and not reverse racism.

The entire language they use is combative when dealing with African-Americans whether intentional or not.

What is the saying, you attract more bees with honey?

As long as conservatives make welfare sound like a crime, make AA sound like injustice, they will be at odds with the Black community.

I think you can limit and even abolish social programs if you cease to sound as if you are at war with those who benefit from those same programs.[/quote]

Exactly

jetglass · 11-05-2008, 10:48 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish;2843969]I'm curious. Which policies or promises of Obama do you think resonated so deeply with African American Voters, that it won him an impressive 96% of all (regardless of party) voters in this block?

How could Republicans or any other Party "win over" the African American vote, to do better than this ~4%?[/QUOTE]

Some african american voters simply dont even know what obama's policies are. They are simply choosing based on race, which is totally understandable. Perfect example of that is the guy who is on the Howard Stern show a lot and went to Harlem to see why blacks were voting for obama. What he did was ask them if they agreed with obama's policies that were actually mccains policies to see if they knew the difference. They told him on live radio that they agreed with obama and "his policy" to stay in Iraq until the job was finished and were happy with "his decision" to choose sarah palin as his running mate. Sounds kind of sad to me.

Jason423 · 11-05-2008, 10:57 PM

[QUOTE=piney;2844483]
The conservatives use language like "we believe in individual responsibility, not handouts" alienates most minorities, because right or wrong it is perceived as an attack on minorities.
[/QUOTE]

That is a really good point. Its funny because that same rhetoric is embraced by many white folks who benefit from similar programs (at least in south jersey) through unemployment benefits, government subsidized housing, etc...and lean very conservative when they vote or talk politics. It completely flies over their heads that that same speech also applies to how they are often living.

Jetdawgg · 11-06-2008, 04:38 PM

Good question Fish.

How about starting at the local level with Mayors who will enforce laws when there is Police Brutality?

How about enforcing laws or getting new ones that fight against workplace discrimination? Let's actually fine those institutions in a big way

How about stop outsourcing jobs (industries) that AA found relatively (textile) easy employment?

How about increasing educational opportunities so that the schools are equal in every district?

How about equal opportunity when it comes to gov't services? Bus depots are placed in large AA areas for a reason and then they cap it off with poor health services

Most AA are not on welfare as some here think. Coroporations get more welfare (700BB) and that prejudice is a reality to the GOP. It may be a reality to the Dems also, but to a lesser extent

How about calling the media out when they scapegoat AA for things unjustly. During the presidential race a white woman said an AA male carved a 'B' in her face and the GOP was all over it. She lied by the way

How about recruiting AA into the republican party? John McCain spent one day in Memphis at the MLK 40th Anniversary. Did he ever go to Bed Stuy or Harlem?

The GOP is hostile to the AA from the local level to the highest levels. MLK practically delivered the AA vote to the dems in the 50's and 60's. It has been there since.

If the dems don't deliver here like they should, I am quite sure that there will be some backlash from the AA community. We need to end war in Iraq. We need laws that are more favorable or at least fair to the working man/woman.

Sharrow · 11-06-2008, 09:26 PM

Interesting Ad I just saw here in this thread, lol.

[img]http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/imgad?id=CK6At6Xw89qmvAEQ2AUYTzIIIi3PeEvXZq0[/img]

11-05-2008, 07:35 PM	#41
32green The original road-kill pus slurper. MMMmmm pus. Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The depths of Despair. Posts: 37,672	[QUOTE=piney;2844483] The conservatives use language like "we believe in individual responsibility, not handouts" alienates most minorities, because right or wrong it is perceived as an attack on minorities. [/QUOTE] And why is that, exactly?

11-05-2008, 07:41 PM	#42
Piper Hall Of Fame Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: L.I. NY (where the Jets used to be from) Posts: 13,197	[QUOTE=Warfish;2843986]I'm asking what the "right" can do to change a 90-97% to 3% defeat in this vital group every single election, policy wise?[/QUOTE] Nothing. Black republicans/conservatives like Condi Rice and Clarence Thomas are ridiculed and castigated by their own race as the democrats continue to pander to them.

11-05-2008, 07:54 PM	#43
sameoldjets All Pro Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,477	warfish's question is very interesting. i certainly don't have any answer. i can only comment that i find it very strange that the gop is the group that actually freed them during the civil war and the states righters, mostly democrats were the ones that wanted them kept enslaved. maybe they were resentful because in many cases they had it better as slaves instead of as free men. and don't laugh because at the end of the civil war there was quite a bit of resentment towards the newly freed men and many died at the hands of the extremist groups like the kkk. interesting that the party of lincoln is now dominated by the states rights states of the confederacy. another part of this question is why are the northeast states so firmly in the democratic party. this is simply amazing. if there was one group of states that get burned by taxes and poor government services it is the northeast. we get whacked with high state and local taxes, high living costs, and because the regional percapita income is high, higher regional income taxes. why the dems and why obama? we must be a bunch of masochists. but like the AA aversion to the republicans, sometims peope take comfort in the devil they know instead of the devil they don't. maybe the people just don't know any other way and stay in their respective milieus more because of fear of the unknown than any rational thought. i would have thought by now that the northeast states would have learned the folly of keeping clingons like teddy and chris and rosa and barney in power for years and years and years. same thing with the state governments as well. imo this doessn't speak well for the intelligence of the region.

11-05-2008, 07:59 PM	#44
32green The original road-kill pus slurper. MMMmmm pus. Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The depths of Despair. Posts: 37,672	[QUOTE=Piper;2844523]Nothing. Black republicans/conservatives like Condi Rice and Clarence Thomas are ridiculed and castigated by their own race as the democrats continue to pander to them.[/QUOTE] +1. Aided and abetted by the lib media machine. And its a cynically patronizing pandering that ultimately betrays the people whose cause they purport to champion. As racist as anything the left accuses the Republicans of, IMHO.

11-05-2008, 08:04 PM	#45
piney hip deep in dirty diapers All League Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,618	[QUOTE=32green;2844512]And why is that, exactly?[/QUOTE] I thought I said that.. [QUOTE]because right or wrong it is perceived as an attack on minorities.[/QUOTE] why is it perceived so...who knows..but complaining about why won't help

11-05-2008, 08:22 PM	#46
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	btw since this is the race thread it should be noted that the numbers were crunched and it wasn't really the blacks, latino or the youth that powered Obama. He only got slightly higher returns from those groups compared to kerry. no the real force behind the election was what they are calling the "buffett effect" - a reverse Bradley effect - [b]white men[/b] telling their country club buddies they will vote McCain but actually voting Obama. Check the stats, Obama won among men and women! that's literally 2 key demographics ;) [QUOTE=dermlord;2844458] If Obama was running on republican ticket, there is no doubt in my mind he would have been LAbeled "not really black".[/QUOTE] i'll file this gem under "if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle"

11-05-2008, 10:39 PM	#47
doggin94it Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,392	[quote=piney;2844483]I think the problem is that for the most part, what many in the black community think are vital to the survival and growth of the inner city the Republicans are seemingly against. (welfare/social programs/etc). I think the Republicans have to stop using the language and rhetoric that most conservatives use which basically gives the impression that they think people who are on welfare are lazy and criminal. Don't believe me, look at Michele Malkin's column in the Post today...Peggy the Moocher is the happiest person in America today. Yeesh...how do you expect to win over a group when you constantly make it seems as though you think that group is lazy? The conservatives use language like "we believe in individual responsibility, not handouts" alienates most minorities, because right or wrong it is perceived as an attack on minorities. The Republicans have to change the way they discuss these social programs, and not necessarily their goals. They need to stress reforming welfare not eliminating it. They need to talk about equality and not reverse racism. The entire language they use is combative when dealing with African-Americans whether intentional or not. What is the saying, you attract more bees with honey? As long as conservatives make welfare sound like a crime, make AA sound like injustice, they will be at odds with the Black community. I think you can limit and even abolish social programs if you cease to sound as if you are at war with those who benefit from those same programs.[/quote] Exactly

11-05-2008, 10:48 PM	#48
jetglass Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,533	[QUOTE=Warfish;2843969]I'm curious. Which policies or promises of Obama do you think resonated so deeply with African American Voters, that it won him an impressive 96% of all (regardless of party) voters in this block? How could Republicans or any other Party "win over" the African American vote, to do better than this ~4%?[/QUOTE] Some african american voters simply dont even know what obama's policies are. They are simply choosing based on race, which is totally understandable. Perfect example of that is the guy who is on the Howard Stern show a lot and went to Harlem to see why blacks were voting for obama. What he did was ask them if they agreed with obama's policies that were actually mccains policies to see if they knew the difference. They told him on live radio that they agreed with obama and "his policy" to stay in Iraq until the job was finished and were happy with "his decision" to choose sarah palin as his running mate. Sounds kind of sad to me.

11-05-2008, 10:57 PM	#49
Jason423 All Pro Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 9,671	[QUOTE=piney;2844483] The conservatives use language like "we believe in individual responsibility, not handouts" alienates most minorities, because right or wrong it is perceived as an attack on minorities. [/QUOTE] That is a really good point. Its funny because that same rhetoric is embraced by many white folks who benefit from similar programs (at least in south jersey) through unemployment benefits, government subsidized housing, etc...and lean very conservative when they vote or talk politics. It completely flies over their heads that that same speech also applies to how they are often living.

11-06-2008, 04:38 PM	#50
Jetdawgg All Pro Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 6,687	Good question Fish. How about starting at the local level with Mayors who will enforce laws when there is Police Brutality? How about enforcing laws or getting new ones that fight against workplace discrimination? Let's actually fine those institutions in a big way How about stop outsourcing jobs (industries) that AA found relatively (textile) easy employment? How about increasing educational opportunities so that the schools are equal in every district? How about equal opportunity when it comes to gov't services? Bus depots are placed in large AA areas for a reason and then they cap it off with poor health services Most AA are not on welfare as some here think. Coroporations get more welfare (700BB) and that prejudice is a reality to the GOP. It may be a reality to the Dems also, but to a lesser extent How about calling the media out when they scapegoat AA for things unjustly. During the presidential race a white woman said an AA male carved a 'B' in her face and the GOP was all over it. She lied by the way How about recruiting AA into the republican party? John McCain spent one day in Memphis at the MLK 40th Anniversary. Did he ever go to Bed Stuy or Harlem? The GOP is hostile to the AA from the local level to the highest levels. MLK practically delivered the AA vote to the dems in the 50's and 60's. It has been there since. If the dems don't deliver here like they should, I am quite sure that there will be some backlash from the AA community. We need to end war in Iraq. We need laws that are more favorable or at least fair to the working man/woman.

11-06-2008, 09:26 PM	#51
Sharrow Veteran Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,710	Interesting Ad I just saw here in this thread, lol. [img]http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/imgad?id=CK6At6Xw89qmvAEQ2AUYTzIIIi3PeEvXZq0[/img]