Report: Obama to Offer Israel 'Nuclear Umbrella' Against Iran - Page 3

parafly · 12-11-2008, 01:56 PM

[QUOTE=kennyo7;2905523]I also believe people who think Iran would be stupid enough to use Nukes against Israel or anyother country pre-emptively are nuts.[/QUOTE]

Who is the bigger nut? The person who uses a nuke to preemptively attack another nation or the person who naively thinks it can't happen?

kennyo7 · 12-11-2008, 01:57 PM

[QUOTE=JayTPenny;2905550]Still...clearly Israel has the MOST to lose.[/QUOTE]

As opposed to the citizens of Iran who will also be wiped out by an equal if not harsher nuclear rtaliation by Israel and likely the USA.

Both sides would equally lose in a nuclear attack regardless of who initiated it . There would be no winners.

Thats why it is unlikely either side would initiate a nuclear attack.

JayTPenny · 12-11-2008, 01:59 PM

[QUOTE=kennyo7;2905543]He never said that. Ive gone through this a million times, But people on this board refuse to acknowledge that.
Oh, and Ahmedinejad does not have the final say, or any say for that matter regarding Iran attacking another country.[/QUOTE]

Israel has been an object of hatred for all the middle eastern countries since its very inception. Ahmedinejad is unquestionably a bigger enemy to Israel than any of the other countries you mentioned.

kennyo7 · 12-11-2008, 02:00 PM

[QUOTE=parafly;2905553]Who is the bigger nut? The person who uses a nuke to preemptively attack another nation or the person who naively thinks it can't happen?[/QUOTE]

The person who still believes a pre-emptive nuclear strike by Iran is likely against a nation that has a thousand times the nuclear arsenal that Iran has not to mention the unquestioning backing of the worlds last remaining super power.

JayTPenny · 12-11-2008, 02:02 PM

[QUOTE=kennyo7;2905554]As opposed to the citizens of Iran who will also be wiped out by an equal if not harsher nuclear rtaliation by Israel and likely the USA.

Both sides would equally lose in a nuclear attack regardless of who initiated it . There would be no winners.

Thats why it is unlikely either side would initiate a nuclear attack.[/QUOTE]

Thats why the US and Israel wouldn't initiate attacks. I would not put such an act beyond a people who support blowing themselves up in terror attacks.

kennyo7 · 12-11-2008, 02:06 PM

[QUOTE=JayTPenny;2905559]Israel has been an object of hatred for all the middle eastern countries since its very inception. Ahmedinejad is unquestionably a bigger enemy to Israel than any of the other countries you mentioned.[/QUOTE]

And Israel has unquestionably the strongest military power in the Middle East that could wipe out all of its enemies combined with little difficulty.

No matter what Ahmedinejad says or believes, his military strength is no match for israel. hes like a dog that barks but has no teeth.

kennyo7 · 12-11-2008, 02:08 PM

[QUOTE=JayTPenny;2905569]Thats why the US and Israel wouldn't initiate attacks. I would not put such an act beyond a people who support blowing themselves up in terror attacks.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but Iranians as a whole dont support blowing themselves up in terror attacks. Sure there are a tiny fringe element that has these crazy ideas, but every nation has a looney radical element in it. Even Israel.

Warfish · 12-11-2008, 02:19 PM

[QUOTE=kennyo7;2905561]The person who still believes a pre-emptive nuclear strike by Iran is likely against a nation that has a thousand times the nuclear arsenal that Iran has not to mention the unquestioning backing of the worlds last remaining super power.[/QUOTE]

Do I think Iran would take their very first Nuke, sadle it on whatever rocket technology they posess at the time, and lob it on over into Israel?

Of course not.

Do I think Iran, upon having nuclear weapons grade material, would provide some small amount of that material to their fellow Islamic Extremists, for use in terrorism-attacks against Israel, the U.S., or others?

Yes, I do.

You can question this logic, but I believe the Iranian support for Terrorism is quite clear, and I see no reason why they would suddenly decide that using yet another weapon at their disposal would be "too far". Their only fear would be being caught, and as even our own nation has proven, even the most rational nations around often think "they won't get caught".

But it's a moot point Ken. You support Iran, and have more faith in them, than you have in your own nation. And you hate Israel. In your heart, I have no doubt, you agree that they are the cause of all problems in the middle east, and that they should be removed from the middle east.

CTM · 12-11-2008, 02:30 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish;2905515]I don't have one.

On this topic, I simply have nothign constructive to offer as to "how".

With that said, I also do not feel comfortable with the future of human life on Earth, with these types of weapons in the hands of people I believe are far less logical and rational than Ken does, the Iran's and Koreas of this world.

All it takes is one.

One nation, often with power in the hands of one person, who decides to use it....and all of human kind could be destroyed. And some here want to trust that power to anyone, as long as they don't like us and don't like Israel.

Because, after all, we're the bad guys.[/QUOTE]
Well, of course, agreed there. I just don't know that there's a practical way to avoid it..

Further, I don't know why we should be held as the moral authority here. We're the only ones that ever used them, no? Let the swiss decide ;)

JayTPenny · 12-11-2008, 03:56 PM

[QUOTE=kennyo7;2905590]Sorry, but Iranians as a whole dont support blowing themselves up in terror attacks. Sure there are a tiny fringe element that has these crazy ideas, but every nation has a looney radical element in it. Even Israel.[/QUOTE]

Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism.

BrooklynBound · 12-11-2008, 07:15 PM

[QUOTE=JayTPenny;2905869]Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism.[/QUOTE]

Do you think the US has ever supported terrorism?

JayTPenny · 12-11-2008, 09:53 PM

[QUOTE=BrooklynBound;2906365]Do you think the US has ever supported terrorism?[/QUOTE]

Perhaps in a few instances. In any case, I would submit to Warfishes last post.

kennyo7 · 12-12-2008, 08:00 AM

[QUOTE=Warfish;2905619]

But it's a moot point Ken. You support Iran, and have more faith in them, than you have in your own nation. And you hate Israel. In your heart, I have no doubt, you agree that they are the cause of all problems in the middle east, and that they should be removed from the middle east.[/QUOTE]

You are all wrong about this. I do not support Iran any more than any other country. I do not have faith in them any more than I do with Israel, and when it comes to Middle East Policy, yes, i have little faith in the USA simply b/c of the stronghold the Israeli lobby has on our politicians and their decision making.

There are only 2 nations i support, the USA and Greece. And lately im having doubts about my native Greece.

I do not hate Israel by any means. I admire the Israeli people as a whole. But I dont have much faith in their leadership especially the Likud leadership. And while i dont blame everything in the Middle East on Israel, i do believe they share some of the blame and arre at least in part, contributing to the problem, something the US govt and press refuses to recognize.

PlumberKhan · 12-12-2008, 08:47 AM

The United States and Russia, in their idiotic, ill-conceived, moronic plan to dominate the arms race has produced enough WMD's to kill every person on the earth many times over.

We had, during the cold war, enough weaponized small pox to kill everyone...we had enough anthrax to kill everyone again....we had enough ricin to kill everyone a third time...we produced enough botulism bacteria to kill everyone a fourth time....we produced enough tularemia to kill everyone a fifth time...and we produced enough nukes to kill everyone a 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th times...[B]HEY A**HOLES!! [/B][I]You only have to kill somebody once, you stupid f***s[/I] :rolleyes:

We are worried about one country producing one nuke. The rest of the world was worried about the US and Russia accidentally dropping something in their labs.

kennyo7 · 12-12-2008, 09:04 AM

[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2907081]The United States and Russia, in their idiotic, ill-conceived, moronic plan to dominate the arms race has produced enough WMD's to kill every person on the earth many times over.

We had, during the cold war, enough weaponized small pox to kill everyone...we had enough anthrax to kill everyone again....we had enough ricin to kill everyone a third time...we produced enough botulism bacteria to kill everyone a fourth time....we produced enough tularemia to kill everyone a fifth time...and we produced enough nukes to kill everyone a 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th times...[B]HEY A**HOLES!! [/B][I]You only have to kill somebody once, you stupid f***s[/I] :rolleyes:

[B]We are worried about one country producing one nuke. The rest of the world was worried about the US and Russia accidentally dropping something in their labs[/B].[/QUOTE]

Great post!!
You hit it on the nail.

Warfish · 12-12-2008, 06:41 PM

[QUOTE=kennyo7;2907061]You are all wrong about this. I do not support Iran any more than any other country. I do not have faith in them any more than I do with Israel, and when it comes to Middle East Policy, yes, i have little faith in the USA simply b/c of the stronghold the Israeli lobby has on our politicians and their decision making.

There are only 2 nations i support, the USA and Greece. And lately im having doubts about my native Greece.

I do not hate Israel by any means. I admire the Israeli people as a whole. But I dont have much faith in their leadership especially the Likud leadership. And while i dont blame everything in the Middle East on Israel, i do believe they share some of the blame and arre at least in part, contributing to the problem, something the US govt and press refuses to recognize.[/QUOTE]

I simply do not believe you, but fair enough I suppose.

You've stated you opinion, folks can judge as they see fit.

VincenzoTestaverde · 12-13-2008, 06:14 PM

Wow, so the Obama-haters are now attacking him for pledging to defend Israel. The hypocrisy and irony don't end.

12-11-2008, 02:19 PM	#48
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=kennyo7;2905561]The person who still believes a pre-emptive nuclear strike by Iran is likely against a nation that has a thousand times the nuclear arsenal that Iran has not to mention the unquestioning backing of the worlds last remaining super power.[/QUOTE] Do I think Iran would take their very first Nuke, sadle it on whatever rocket technology they posess at the time, and lob it on over into Israel? Of course not. Do I think Iran, upon having nuclear weapons grade material, would provide some small amount of that material to their fellow Islamic Extremists, for use in terrorism-attacks against Israel, the U.S., or others? Yes, I do. You can question this logic, but I believe the Iranian support for Terrorism is quite clear, and I see no reason why they would suddenly decide that using yet another weapon at their disposal would be "too far". Their only fear would be being caught, and as even our own nation has proven, even the most rational nations around often think "they won't get caught". But it's a moot point Ken. You support Iran, and have more faith in them, than you have in your own nation. And you hate Israel. In your heart, I have no doubt, you agree that they are the cause of all problems in the middle east, and that they should be removed from the middle east. Last edited by Warfish; 12-11-2008 at 02:23 PM.

12-11-2008, 01:56 PM	#41
parafly so why side with anything? All Pro Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 6,315	[QUOTE=kennyo7;2905523]I also believe people who think Iran would be stupid enough to use Nukes against Israel or anyother country pre-emptively are nuts.[/QUOTE] Who is the bigger nut? The person who uses a nuke to preemptively attack another nation or the person who naively thinks it can't happen?

12-11-2008, 01:57 PM	#42
kennyo7 All Pro Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 7,417	[QUOTE=JayTPenny;2905550]Still...clearly Israel has the MOST to lose.[/QUOTE] As opposed to the citizens of Iran who will also be wiped out by an equal if not harsher nuclear rtaliation by Israel and likely the USA. Both sides would equally lose in a nuclear attack regardless of who initiated it . There would be no winners. Thats why it is unlikely either side would initiate a nuclear attack.

12-11-2008, 01:59 PM	#43
JayTPenny All League Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 764	[QUOTE=kennyo7;2905543]He never said that. Ive gone through this a million times, But people on this board refuse to acknowledge that. Oh, and Ahmedinejad does not have the final say, or any say for that matter regarding Iran attacking another country.[/QUOTE] Israel has been an object of hatred for all the middle eastern countries since its very inception. Ahmedinejad is unquestionably a bigger enemy to Israel than any of the other countries you mentioned.

12-11-2008, 02:00 PM	#44
kennyo7 All Pro Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 7,417	[QUOTE=parafly;2905553]Who is the bigger nut? The person who uses a nuke to preemptively attack another nation or the person who naively thinks it can't happen?[/QUOTE] The person who still believes a pre-emptive nuclear strike by Iran is likely against a nation that has a thousand times the nuclear arsenal that Iran has not to mention the unquestioning backing of the worlds last remaining super power.

12-11-2008, 02:02 PM	#45
JayTPenny All League Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 764	[QUOTE=kennyo7;2905554]As opposed to the citizens of Iran who will also be wiped out by an equal if not harsher nuclear rtaliation by Israel and likely the USA. Both sides would equally lose in a nuclear attack regardless of who initiated it . There would be no winners. Thats why it is unlikely either side would initiate a nuclear attack.[/QUOTE] Thats why the US and Israel wouldn't initiate attacks. I would not put such an act beyond a people who support blowing themselves up in terror attacks.

12-11-2008, 02:06 PM	#46
kennyo7 All Pro Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 7,417	[QUOTE=JayTPenny;2905559]Israel has been an object of hatred for all the middle eastern countries since its very inception. Ahmedinejad is unquestionably a bigger enemy to Israel than any of the other countries you mentioned.[/QUOTE] And Israel has unquestionably the strongest military power in the Middle East that could wipe out all of its enemies combined with little difficulty. No matter what Ahmedinejad says or believes, his military strength is no match for israel. hes like a dog that barks but has no teeth.

12-11-2008, 02:08 PM	#47
kennyo7 All Pro Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 7,417	[QUOTE=JayTPenny;2905569]Thats why the US and Israel wouldn't initiate attacks. I would not put such an act beyond a people who support blowing themselves up in terror attacks.[/QUOTE] Sorry, but Iranians as a whole dont support blowing themselves up in terror attacks. Sure there are a tiny fringe element that has these crazy ideas, but every nation has a looney radical element in it. Even Israel.

12-11-2008, 02:30 PM	#49
CTM Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Not bababooey and I resent the implication Posts: 21,029	[QUOTE=Warfish;2905515]I don't have one. On this topic, I simply have nothign constructive to offer as to "how". With that said, I also do not feel comfortable with the future of human life on Earth, with these types of weapons in the hands of people I believe are far less logical and rational than Ken does, the Iran's and Koreas of this world. All it takes is one. One nation, often with power in the hands of one person, who decides to use it....and all of human kind could be destroyed. And some here want to trust that power to anyone, as long as they don't like us and don't like Israel. Because, after all, we're the bad guys.[/QUOTE] Well, of course, agreed there. I just don't know that there's a practical way to avoid it.. Further, I don't know why we should be held as the moral authority here. We're the only ones that ever used them, no? Let the swiss decide ;)

12-11-2008, 03:56 PM	#50
JayTPenny All League Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 764	[QUOTE=kennyo7;2905590]Sorry, but Iranians as a whole dont support blowing themselves up in terror attacks. Sure there are a tiny fringe element that has these crazy ideas, but every nation has a looney radical element in it. Even Israel.[/QUOTE] Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism.

12-11-2008, 07:15 PM	#51
BrooklynBound Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 15,550	[QUOTE=JayTPenny;2905869]Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism.[/QUOTE] Do you think the US has ever supported terrorism?

12-11-2008, 09:53 PM	#52
JayTPenny All League Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 764	[QUOTE=BrooklynBound;2906365]Do you think the US has ever supported terrorism?[/QUOTE] Perhaps in a few instances. In any case, I would submit to Warfishes last post.

12-12-2008, 08:00 AM	#53
kennyo7 All Pro Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 7,417	[QUOTE=Warfish;2905619] But it's a moot point Ken. You support Iran, and have more faith in them, than you have in your own nation. And you hate Israel. In your heart, I have no doubt, you agree that they are the cause of all problems in the middle east, and that they should be removed from the middle east.[/QUOTE] You are all wrong about this. I do not support Iran any more than any other country. I do not have faith in them any more than I do with Israel, and when it comes to Middle East Policy, yes, i have little faith in the USA simply b/c of the stronghold the Israeli lobby has on our politicians and their decision making. There are only 2 nations i support, the USA and Greece. And lately im having doubts about my native Greece. I do not hate Israel by any means. I admire the Israeli people as a whole. But I dont have much faith in their leadership especially the Likud leadership. And while i dont blame everything in the Middle East on Israel, i do believe they share some of the blame and arre at least in part, contributing to the problem, something the US govt and press refuses to recognize.

12-12-2008, 08:47 AM	#54
PlumberKhan HAIL SATAN! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,081	The United States and Russia, in their idiotic, ill-conceived, moronic plan to dominate the arms race has produced enough WMD's to kill every person on the earth many times over. We had, during the cold war, enough weaponized small pox to kill everyone...we had enough anthrax to kill everyone again....we had enough ricin to kill everyone a third time...we produced enough botulism bacteria to kill everyone a fourth time....we produced enough tularemia to kill everyone a fifth time...and we produced enough nukes to kill everyone a 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th times...[B]HEY AHOLES!! [/B][I]You only have to kill somebody once, you stupid f*s[/I] :rolleyes: We are worried about one country producing one nuke. The rest of the world was worried about the US and Russia accidentally dropping something in their labs.

12-12-2008, 09:04 AM	#55
kennyo7 All Pro Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 7,417	[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2907081]The United States and Russia, in their idiotic, ill-conceived, moronic plan to dominate the arms race has produced enough WMD's to kill every person on the earth many times over. We had, during the cold war, enough weaponized small pox to kill everyone...we had enough anthrax to kill everyone again....we had enough ricin to kill everyone a third time...we produced enough botulism bacteria to kill everyone a fourth time....we produced enough tularemia to kill everyone a fifth time...and we produced enough nukes to kill everyone a 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th times...[B]HEY AHOLES!! [/B][I]You only have to kill somebody once, you stupid f*s[/I] :rolleyes: [B]We are worried about one country producing one nuke. The rest of the world was worried about the US and Russia accidentally dropping something in their labs[/B].[/QUOTE] Great post!! You hit it on the nail.

12-12-2008, 06:41 PM	#56
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=kennyo7;2907061]You are all wrong about this. I do not support Iran any more than any other country. I do not have faith in them any more than I do with Israel, and when it comes to Middle East Policy, yes, i have little faith in the USA simply b/c of the stronghold the Israeli lobby has on our politicians and their decision making. There are only 2 nations i support, the USA and Greece. And lately im having doubts about my native Greece. I do not hate Israel by any means. I admire the Israeli people as a whole. But I dont have much faith in their leadership especially the Likud leadership. And while i dont blame everything in the Middle East on Israel, i do believe they share some of the blame and arre at least in part, contributing to the problem, something the US govt and press refuses to recognize.[/QUOTE] I simply do not believe you, but fair enough I suppose. You've stated you opinion, folks can judge as they see fit.

12-13-2008, 06:14 PM	#57
VincenzoTestaverde laughing at the Pledge Against America Banned Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 9,162	Wow, so the Obama-haters are now attacking him for pledging to defend Israel. The hypocrisy and irony don't end.