Erik boland on Ratliff - Page 3

Jets1958 · 01-20-2009, 08:49 AM

I'm for an open competiton in camp. Ratliff v. Clemons. But I think Ratliff has a huge upside - size and a big arm.

Check out his college stats at Utah in 2006. He was a junior college transfer after his sophomore year and only started his senior year.

[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=169928[/url]

2006 - 2,796 yards 23 TD's 9 INT 133 rating

Foley1028 · 01-20-2009, 08:58 AM

[QUOTE=Chica me Tipo;2979429]As much as I'd love for that to be news to me, I know that.

Judging a young QB by his first 8 starts stats with no O-line, running game, or receivers doesn't strike me as rational.

Fact: The Jets offense played better with Clemens than they did with Chad in '07.

Fact: Clemens is young.

[B]Fact: Clemens is talented.[/B]

Fact: He's been in the system for 3 years.

I can keep going...8 games doesn't mean crap to me.[/QUOTE]

In order to make the NFL you need talent.... but does his "talent" translate into winning NFL games. 5TD's 10INT's.... I don't think it does. I'd rather have Favre back for another season than see Clemens under center.

Chica me Tipo · 01-20-2009, 09:01 AM

[QUOTE=Foley1028;2979461]In order to make the NFL you need talent.... but does his "talent" translate into winning NFL games. 5TD's 10INT's.... I don't think it does. I'd rather have Favre back for another season than see Clemens under center.[/QUOTE]

You...do realize there's 10 other guys on the field that help him put up TD's too right?

This is probably going to go nowhere fast. The Kellen debate can't be new, but I have no idea how fans of a team can be so quick to throw out pre-prime QB's because they failed to blow away in their first 7 starts for a bad team. It makes no sense.

eaglenj · 01-20-2009, 09:06 AM

I would absolutely love to see Ratliff win out in a competition next year. The kid has absolutely prototypical size for the QB position 6'4 220 lbs. Scouting report on him coming out was that he had the arm strength to make every NFL throw, and great size, decent mobility, but that he would need time on the bench to learn the game because he only started one year of major college football.

Aside from playing against 3rd stringers, he showed poise in the pocket (one of clemens big downfalls), a strong arm, and above avg mobility.

Here's the problem. We are fans....so obviously we would love to see the undrafted kid come in, start and be great. The question you have to ask though is [B]would you bet your job on it[/B]? Tannenbaum and now first year head coach Rex would be taking a HUGE risk starting someone like Ratliff and it might be just too big of a risk for them.

Even if we draft someone in the first round (which im against) that would in effect buy T-Rex some time to let him and the team develop. I dont agree with this, since I think there are pieces in place to win now, and Id rather have someone start who has been in the system for 3 years...but unfortunately thats just how this works.

Hopefully Rex has the "best player plays" mentality and Rat can win the job....but these guys would be risking a lot to do so.

Sourceworx · 01-20-2009, 09:07 AM

I think we should bring in a Chris Simms type of veteran and have him battle it out with Clemens, Ainge and Ratliff.

PatsFanTX · 01-20-2009, 09:12 AM

[QUOTE=Foley1028;2979461]

5TD's 10INT's.

[/QUOTE]

If Jets fans want that kind of performance, then they should just stick with Favre.

The Crusher · 01-20-2009, 09:12 AM

[QUOTE=Chica me Tipo;2979463]You...do realize there's 10 other guys on the field that help him put up TD's too right?[/QUOTE]

This the one excuse I could almost galvanize. McDroppins and the rest of the receivers at the time didn't help Clemens at all when he had his shot. They dropped more balls than a lap dance.

But the fact remains that Clemens skill set is below average. See J-dubs summary.

The Crusher · 01-20-2009, 09:15 AM

[QUOTE=sourceworx;2979472]I think we should bring in a [B]Chris Simms [/B]type of veteran and have him battle it out with Clemens, Ainge and Ratliff.[/QUOTE]

That's a pretty good call. Didn't think of him. He would be a nice training camp addition to add to the QB comp. Nicely done man.

Chica me Tipo · 01-20-2009, 09:16 AM

[QUOTE=The Crusher;2979477]This the one excuse I could almost galvanize. McDroppins and the rest of the receivers at the time didn't help Clemens at all when he had his shot. They dropped more balls than a lap dance.

But the fact remains that Clemens skill set is below average. See J-dubs summary.[/QUOTE]

His skill set isn't below average, otherwise he wouldn't have been a second round pick.

He's got a good arm, good size, good mobility...all other flaws are not only coachable but we haven't even seen them since preseason to know that they haven't been corrected.

PatsFanTX · 01-20-2009, 09:19 AM

[QUOTE=Chica me Tipo;2979481]

He's got a good arm, [B][U]good size[/U][/B], good mobility...

[/QUOTE]

Good size? :rolleyes:

He's the 2nd coming of Doug Flutie.

Chica me Tipo · 01-20-2009, 09:21 AM

[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;2979485]Good size? :rolleyes:

He's the 2nd coming of Doug Flutie.[/QUOTE]

Yea...except at 6'2 he's the same height as Brett Favre and taller than Drew Brees.

Those guys seemed to turn out fine.

JetinHuntersville · 01-20-2009, 09:23 AM

[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;2979485]Good size? :rolleyes:

He's the 2nd coming of Doug Flutie.[/QUOTE]

Well, coming out of college he was 6'4" 235 so either he shrunk or as usual you don't know what the F you are talking about. :rolleyes:

PatsFanTX · 01-20-2009, 09:24 AM

[QUOTE=Chica me Tipo;2979487]Yea...except at 6'2 he's the same height as Brett Favre and taller than Drew Brees.

Those guys seemed to turn out fine.[/QUOTE]

6'2"? :rolleyes:

The only way Clemens is 6'2" is if he is standing on a step stool.

He's a midget.

Where is bit when you need him?

JetinHuntersville · 01-20-2009, 09:25 AM

[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;2979485]Good size? :rolleyes:

He's the 2nd coming of Doug Flutie.[/QUOTE]

Oh, and here, you might want to check it out. It is from the NFL itself although I am sure you know more than they do. :rolleyes:

[url]http://www.nfl.com/players/brettratliff/profile?id=RAT570906[/url]

JetinHuntersville · 01-20-2009, 09:27 AM

[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;2979495]6'2"? :rolleyes:

The only way Clemens is 6'2" is if he is standing on a step stool.

He's a midget.

Where is bit when you need him?[/QUOTE]

Her is Clemens. Good call. :rolleyes:

[url]http://www.nfl.com/players/kellenclemens/profile?id=CLE075538[/url]

Chica me Tipo · 01-20-2009, 09:28 AM

[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;2979495]6'2"? :rolleyes:

The only way Clemens is 6'2" is if he is standing on a step stool.

He's a midget.

Where is bit when you need him?[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=15245&draftyear=2006&genpos=QB[/url]

Wow, you're right. He's 6'1.5.

PatsFanTX · 01-20-2009, 09:29 AM

[QUOTE=JetinHuntersville;2979506]Her is Clemens. Good call. :rolleyes:

[url]http://www.nfl.com/players/kellenclemens/profile?id=CLE075538[/url][/QUOTE]

Yea, heights and weights are never fabricated. :rolleyes:

Timmy® · 01-20-2009, 09:30 AM

To be fair to Clemens, he had Adriane Clarke and that other POS whose name escapes me.

avi31884 · 01-20-2009, 09:30 AM

[QUOTE=sameoldjets;2979398]depending on when this scout said this, it means that ratliff would need at least one more season on the bench. but this doesn't necessarily mean that he can't read coverages or throw all of the throws. what it might mean is that they need him to bulk up a bit. as i recall, one of the knocks on brady when he came out was that he was too slim to play qb. during the season he was on the bench he bulked up enough so he could take the pounding.

we'll see what happens. this may also keep the door open for favre assuming that clemens can't go or they can't find another vet for one season. i would say, throw ratliff to the wolves and see how he makes out. they've spent all this money on an oline. time for them to start earning their pay. besides, it wouldn't be the first time a slim qb played for the jets. anyone remember al woodall?[/QUOTE]

Ratty doesnt need to bulk up. Coming out of college he was 225 now he is 235. For comparison Brady is now 225 and Peyton is 230.

The Crusher · 01-20-2009, 09:35 AM

[QUOTE=Chica me Tipo;2979481]His skill set isn't below average, otherwise he wouldn't have been a second round pick.

He's got a good arm, good size, good mobility...all other flaws are not only coachable but we haven't even seen them since preseason to know that they haven't been corrected.[/QUOTE]

A good arm that throws the ball too high or to someone else. Good size that we have to lie about to get him to the almost not too short point. Good mobility if that's what you call "Happy feet". He has the pocket presence of a blind man crossing the street.

01-20-2009, 09:01 AM	#43
Chica me Tipo endorsing Braylon Edwards. Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,826	[QUOTE=Foley1028;2979461]In order to make the NFL you need talent.... but does his "talent" translate into winning NFL games. 5TD's 10INT's.... I don't think it does. I'd rather have Favre back for another season than see Clemens under center.[/QUOTE] You...do realize there's 10 other guys on the field that help him put up TD's too right? This is probably going to go nowhere fast. The Kellen debate can't be new, but I have no idea how fans of a team can be so quick to throw out pre-prime QB's because they failed to blow away in their first 7 starts for a bad team. It makes no sense. Last edited by Chica me Tipo; 01-20-2009 at 09:14 AM.

01-20-2009, 08:49 AM	#41
Jets1958 a Jets fan since 1967 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,218	I'm for an open competiton in camp. Ratliff v. Clemons. But I think Ratliff has a huge upside - size and a big arm. Check out his college stats at Utah in 2006. He was a junior college transfer after his sophomore year and only started his senior year. [url]http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=169928[/url] 2006 - 2,796 yards 23 TD's 9 INT 133 rating

01-20-2009, 08:58 AM	#42
Foley1028 All Pro Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 1,579	[QUOTE=Chica me Tipo;2979429]As much as I'd love for that to be news to me, I know that. Judging a young QB by his first 8 starts stats with no O-line, running game, or receivers doesn't strike me as rational. Fact: The Jets offense played better with Clemens than they did with Chad in '07. Fact: Clemens is young. [B]Fact: Clemens is talented.[/B] Fact: He's been in the system for 3 years. I can keep going...8 games doesn't mean crap to me.[/QUOTE] In order to make the NFL you need talent.... but does his "talent" translate into winning NFL games. 5TD's 10INT's.... I don't think it does. I'd rather have Favre back for another season than see Clemens under center.

01-20-2009, 09:06 AM	#44
eaglenj All League Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,834	I would absolutely love to see Ratliff win out in a competition next year. The kid has absolutely prototypical size for the QB position 6'4 220 lbs. Scouting report on him coming out was that he had the arm strength to make every NFL throw, and great size, decent mobility, but that he would need time on the bench to learn the game because he only started one year of major college football. Aside from playing against 3rd stringers, he showed poise in the pocket (one of clemens big downfalls), a strong arm, and above avg mobility. Here's the problem. We are fans....so obviously we would love to see the undrafted kid come in, start and be great. The question you have to ask though is [B]would you bet your job on it[/B]? Tannenbaum and now first year head coach Rex would be taking a HUGE risk starting someone like Ratliff and it might be just too big of a risk for them. Even if we draft someone in the first round (which im against) that would in effect buy T-Rex some time to let him and the team develop. I dont agree with this, since I think there are pieces in place to win now, and Id rather have someone start who has been in the system for 3 years...but unfortunately thats just how this works. Hopefully Rex has the "best player plays" mentality and Rat can win the job....but these guys would be risking a lot to do so.

01-20-2009, 09:07 AM	#45
Sourceworx Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Long Island Posts: 13,411	I think we should bring in a Chris Simms type of veteran and have him battle it out with Clemens, Ainge and Ratliff.

01-20-2009, 09:12 AM	#46
PatsFanTX JI Resident Troll Banned Join Date: May 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 52,068	[QUOTE=Foley1028;2979461] 5TD's 10INT's. [/QUOTE] If Jets fans want that kind of performance, then they should just stick with Favre.

01-20-2009, 09:12 AM	#47
The Crusher wearing american flag shirt right now All Pro Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Fairfax Va Posts: 7,842	[QUOTE=Chica me Tipo;2979463]You...do realize there's 10 other guys on the field that help him put up TD's too right?[/QUOTE] This the one excuse I could almost galvanize. McDroppins and the rest of the receivers at the time didn't help Clemens at all when he had his shot. They dropped more balls than a lap dance. But the fact remains that Clemens skill set is below average. See J-dubs summary.

01-20-2009, 09:15 AM	#48
The Crusher wearing american flag shirt right now All Pro Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Fairfax Va Posts: 7,842	[QUOTE=sourceworx;2979472]I think we should bring in a [B]Chris Simms [/B]type of veteran and have him battle it out with Clemens, Ainge and Ratliff.[/QUOTE] That's a pretty good call. Didn't think of him. He would be a nice training camp addition to add to the QB comp. Nicely done man.

01-20-2009, 09:16 AM	#49
Chica me Tipo endorsing Braylon Edwards. Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,826	[QUOTE=The Crusher;2979477]This the one excuse I could almost galvanize. McDroppins and the rest of the receivers at the time didn't help Clemens at all when he had his shot. They dropped more balls than a lap dance. But the fact remains that Clemens skill set is below average. See J-dubs summary.[/QUOTE] His skill set isn't below average, otherwise he wouldn't have been a second round pick. He's got a good arm, good size, good mobility...all other flaws are not only coachable but we haven't even seen them since preseason to know that they haven't been corrected.

01-20-2009, 09:19 AM	#50
PatsFanTX JI Resident Troll Banned Join Date: May 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 52,068	[QUOTE=Chica me Tipo;2979481] He's got a good arm, [B][U]good size[/U][/B], good mobility... [/QUOTE] Good size? :rolleyes: He's the 2nd coming of Doug Flutie.

01-20-2009, 09:21 AM	#51
Chica me Tipo endorsing Braylon Edwards. Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,826	[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;2979485]Good size? :rolleyes: He's the 2nd coming of Doug Flutie.[/QUOTE] Yea...except at 6'2 he's the same height as Brett Favre and taller than Drew Brees. Those guys seemed to turn out fine.

01-20-2009, 09:23 AM	#52
JetinHuntersville All Pro Join Date: May 2005 Location: Huntersville, NC Posts: 6,223	[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;2979485]Good size? :rolleyes: He's the 2nd coming of Doug Flutie.[/QUOTE] Well, coming out of college he was 6'4" 235 so either he shrunk or as usual you don't know what the F you are talking about. :rolleyes:

01-20-2009, 09:24 AM	#53
PatsFanTX JI Resident Troll Banned Join Date: May 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 52,068	[QUOTE=Chica me Tipo;2979487]Yea...except at 6'2 he's the same height as Brett Favre and taller than Drew Brees. Those guys seemed to turn out fine.[/QUOTE] 6'2"? :rolleyes: The only way Clemens is 6'2" is if he is standing on a step stool. He's a midget. Where is bit when you need him?

01-20-2009, 09:25 AM	#54
JetinHuntersville All Pro Join Date: May 2005 Location: Huntersville, NC Posts: 6,223	[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;2979485]Good size? :rolleyes: He's the 2nd coming of Doug Flutie.[/QUOTE] Oh, and here, you might want to check it out. It is from the NFL itself although I am sure you know more than they do. :rolleyes: [url]http://www.nfl.com/players/brettratliff/profile?id=RAT570906[/url]

01-20-2009, 09:27 AM	#55
JetinHuntersville All Pro Join Date: May 2005 Location: Huntersville, NC Posts: 6,223	[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;2979495]6'2"? :rolleyes: The only way Clemens is 6'2" is if he is standing on a step stool. He's a midget. Where is bit when you need him?[/QUOTE] Her is Clemens. Good call. :rolleyes: [url]http://www.nfl.com/players/kellenclemens/profile?id=CLE075538[/url]

01-20-2009, 09:28 AM	#56
Chica me Tipo endorsing Braylon Edwards. Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,826	[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;2979495]6'2"? :rolleyes: The only way Clemens is 6'2" is if he is standing on a step stool. He's a midget. Where is bit when you need him?[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=15245&draftyear=2006&genpos=QB[/url] Wow, you're right. He's 6'1.5.

01-20-2009, 09:29 AM	#57
PatsFanTX JI Resident Troll Banned Join Date: May 2003 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 52,068	[QUOTE=JetinHuntersville;2979506]Her is Clemens. Good call. :rolleyes: [url]http://www.nfl.com/players/kellenclemens/profile?id=CLE075538[/url][/QUOTE] Yea, heights and weights are never fabricated. :rolleyes:

01-20-2009, 09:30 AM	#58
Timmy® JI's own Reverend Jim. Hall Of Fame Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vermont Posts: 23,469	To be fair to Clemens, he had Adriane Clarke and that other POS whose name escapes me.

01-20-2009, 09:30 AM	#59
avi31884 Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 914	[QUOTE=sameoldjets;2979398]depending on when this scout said this, it means that ratliff would need at least one more season on the bench. but this doesn't necessarily mean that he can't read coverages or throw all of the throws. what it might mean is that they need him to bulk up a bit. as i recall, one of the knocks on brady when he came out was that he was too slim to play qb. during the season he was on the bench he bulked up enough so he could take the pounding. we'll see what happens. this may also keep the door open for favre assuming that clemens can't go or they can't find another vet for one season. i would say, throw ratliff to the wolves and see how he makes out. they've spent all this money on an oline. time for them to start earning their pay. besides, it wouldn't be the first time a slim qb played for the jets. anyone remember al woodall?[/QUOTE] Ratty doesnt need to bulk up. Coming out of college he was 225 now he is 235. For comparison Brady is now 225 and Peyton is 230.

01-20-2009, 09:35 AM	#60
The Crusher wearing american flag shirt right now All Pro Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Fairfax Va Posts: 7,842	[QUOTE=Chica me Tipo;2979481]His skill set isn't below average, otherwise he wouldn't have been a second round pick. He's got a good arm, good size, good mobility...all other flaws are not only coachable but we haven't even seen them since preseason to know that they haven't been corrected.[/QUOTE] A good arm that throws the ball too high or to someone else. Good size that we have to lie about to get him to the almost not too short point. Good mobility if that's what you call "Happy feet". He has the pocket presence of a blind man crossing the street.