Corporations Wasted Estimated 43% of Sports Tickets Last Year

jetstream23 · 10-06-2009, 01:41 AM

[url]http://www.cnbc.com/id/33182576[/url]

[QUOTE][B]Corporations Wasted Estimated 43% of Sports Tickets Last Year[/B]

DARREN ROVELL, SPORTSBIZ, SPORTS, CNBC, CNBC.COM, BLOG, SPORTS BUSINESS

Posted By: Darren Rovell | Sports Business Reporter
cnbc.com

| 05 Oct 2009 | 05:08 PM ET

One of the most highly scrutinized pieces of spending by public companies during the economic downturn was sports sponsorship and bringing clients to live sporting events.

And it made sense. Companies that said they used sports to do business didn’t do a particularly good job of publicly rationalizing that spend.

Enter Corporate Events Group, one of a select group of companies that has helped businesses at least internally understand the return on their investment from doing business at the game.

Because of inefficiencies, starting at how companies hold and manage the ticket process, 43 percent of tickets bought by corporations went unused in 2008, according to Anthony Knopp, vice president of business development for the company.

Knopp’s company offers a Web-based portal that manages a company’s entire group of ticket holdings. Employees then log on and make requests and are evaluated based on specific business purpose and sometimes quality of guest and the amount of business at stake.

The portal also gives the user the opportunity to buy tickets on sites like StubHub if the internal tickets aren’t ideal. Anything taken through the internal system, including tickets bought through secondary sites on the portal, are immediately entered into the company’s database. A company also has the ability to enter the business that was done off a particular meeting at a game so that it can better monitor the return.

Knopp said the downturn has helped the company’s business, as keeping track of spending at every level has become more important.

“For years, a lot of companies told us that they had bigger fish to fry than keep track of their sports tickets and how they are used,” Knopp said. “And our response was always, ‘Do you have any other marketing campaigns that you spend $10 million on, that you don’t track?”

The database allows companies to sort by clients taken to the game, the executive who takes them, as well as the team and the venue where most of the business takes place. It also helps companies compile a comprehensive list of their spending for the tax deduction that they can take from going to the game as a business expense.

Knopp says Corporate Events Group has 12 companies that spend more than $4 million on tickets as clients, as well as a host of brands that spend less.

“We had one company that had Tampa Bay Rays tickets and used 9 percent of the total inventory on the season,” Knopp said. “That investment obviously had to be scaled back. We think that it’s realistic for a company to use between 78 and 85 percent of the tickets they buy.[/QUOTE]

I should probably throw this in the PSL ticket sales thread too. Might help explain the hard time the Jets are having selling Club Level PSLs for the new stadium.

Ryan Boru · 10-06-2009, 03:40 AM

Since companies can write tickets off as a business expense it gives them an unfair advantage over regular fans in buying tickets. I think this should be ended and I also think everything associated with "entertaining clients" should stop being a tax write off. This country needs so many regulatory reforms its insane.

Bleed Green · 10-06-2009, 07:06 AM

[QUOTE=Ryan Boru;3292143]Since companies can write tickets off as a business expense it gives them an unfair advantage over regular fans in buying tickets. I think this should be ended and I also think everything associated with "entertaining clients" should stop being a tax write off. This country needs so many regulatory reforms its insane.[/QUOTE]

As a business owner...You can only write off 20% of the ticket cost.

Not enough of a "write off" to be the reason of purchasing tickets and PSL cannot be written off at all.

southparkcpa · 10-06-2009, 09:34 AM

[QUOTE=Bleed Green;3292162]As a business owner...You can only write off 20% of the ticket cost.

Not enough of a "write off" to be the reason of purchasing tickets and PSL cannot be written off at all.[/QUOTE]

50 percent....not 20 percent but I agree with you fundamentally and you are correct, PSL's are NOT deductible.

That said, where do we stop. I say that "Budweiser" should NOT be allowed to advertise at sporting events. They write it off and raise beer prices and I LIKE beer.

That is tongue and cheek of course but why is it different?????

Why does HONDA pay $2 million to sponsor a golf event????

Vinny Patrollie · 10-06-2009, 09:41 AM

[QUOTE=southparkcpa;3292288]50 percent....not 20 percent but I agree with you fundamentally and you are correct, PSL's are NOT deductible.

That said, where do we stop. I say that "Budweiser" should NOT be allowed to advertise at sporting events. They write it off and raise beer prices and I LIKE beer.

That is tongue and cheek of course but why is it different?????

Why does HONDA pay $2 million to sponsor a golf event????[/QUOTE]

C'Mon southpark, I know numbers confuse you, but you still really blew this one. As a business owner myself, I can write off 50% of the ticket cost as an expense. Given the current corporate tax rates, that means that approximately 20% of the ticket price comes off my tax bill. So Bleed Green is absolutely correct and you sir, are wrong. Hopefully, anyone that has you do their taxes misses this post.:rolleyes:

Oh, and GFY.

Beerfish · 10-06-2009, 09:57 AM

[QUOTE=Ryan Boru;3292143]Since companies can write tickets off as a business expense it gives them an unfair advantage over regular fans in buying tickets. I think this should be ended and I also think everything associated with "entertaining clients" should stop being a tax write off. This country needs so many regulatory reforms its insane.[/QUOTE]

I've been saying this for years. I totally agree.

Gholstons Revenge · 10-06-2009, 10:01 AM

[QUOTE=southparkcpa;3292288]50 percent....not 20 percent but I agree with you fundamentally and you are correct, PSL's are NOT deductible.

That said, where do we stop. I say that "Budweiser" should NOT be allowed to advertise at sporting events. They write it off and raise beer prices and I LIKE beer.

That is tongue and cheek of course but why is it different?????

Why does HONDA pay $2 million to sponsor a golf event????[/QUOTE]

pass math before you "attempt" to talk numbers

southparkcpa · 10-06-2009, 10:02 AM

[QUOTE=Gholstons Revenge;3292336]pass math before you "attempt" to talk numbers[/QUOTE]

Dude..... why the hate???

FF2® · 10-06-2009, 10:03 AM

[QUOTE=southparkcpa;3292288]50 percent....not 20 percent but I agree with you fundamentally and you are correct, PSL's are NOT deductible.[/QUOTE]

Holy Crap. Are you really a CPA? :eek:

southparkcpa · 10-06-2009, 10:04 AM

[QUOTE=FF2®;3292341]Holy Crap. Are you really a CPA? :eek:[/QUOTE]

I work in a dry cleaners.

C leanings
P ressings
A lterations

Vinny Patrollie · 10-06-2009, 10:06 AM

[QUOTE=southparkcpa;3292344]I work in a dry clears.

C leanings
P ressings
A lterations[/QUOTE]

That's your best post in a month!:D

southparkcpa · 10-06-2009, 10:13 AM

[QUOTE=Vinny Patrollie;3292347]That's your best post in a month!:D[/QUOTE]

This one is better....

C hronic
P ain
A ss

jetstream23 · 10-06-2009, 12:03 PM

[QUOTE=Ryan Boru;3292143][B]Since companies can write tickets off as a business expense it gives them an unfair advantage over regular fans in buying tickets.[/B] I think this should be ended and I also think everything associated with "entertaining clients" should stop being a tax write off. This country needs so many regulatory reforms its insane.[/QUOTE]

[url]

BrooklynBound · 10-06-2009, 09:20 PM

[QUOTE=Vinny Patrollie;3292298]C'Mon southpark, I know numbers confuse you, but you still really blew this one. As a business owner myself, I can write off 50% of the ticket cost as an expense. Given the current corporate tax rates, that means that approximately 20% of the ticket price comes off my tax bill. So Bleed Green is absolutely correct and you sir, are wrong. Hopefully, anyone that has you do their taxes misses this post.:rolleyes:

Oh, and GFY.[/QUOTE]

Corporate tax rates are between 15-38%. This thread is a major fail.

cr726 · 10-06-2009, 09:41 PM

A major fail? Let's talk about the sales guy who care less what he pays for the tix because he gets it back from the company? The guy who walks out at halftime and doesn't know what the score is or will be? He/she goes on stubhub and pays 200.00 for a 100.00 ticket and could care less because it doesn't cost him anything.
You think that has effected the current ticket prices?

[QUOTE=BrooklynBound;3293535]Corporate tax rates are between 15-38%. This thread is a major fail.[/QUOTE]

2milehighJet · 10-06-2009, 10:24 PM

I love it when your at a game and they say tonights attendance is...... and the whole lower bowl is empty, yet the top is packed. This is really apparent at hoop and hockey games.

Corporations own all the lower seats and they are rarely used. Now with aqll the PSL's and corporations all the fans are going to be in the upper corner endzone seats:eek:

David Harris · 10-06-2009, 10:29 PM

I want to vomit when I see how expensive it is to go to a single football game when you include parking and food. I went often with my dad as a kid and it just doesn't seem worth it to take my son in the future.

Some guys in the league are getting nearly million dollar paychecks. How many of us does it take going through the terrible traffic, paying $20 to park in a swamp, getting ripped off at every corner to pay this one player for a week of work?

It disgusts me. I love football. But the effort and expense of going to a game is prohibitive on principal as well as pragmatics. The worst part is that if enough of us feel this way and can't pay their ridiculous asking price they will black out the games so I can't watch them and their 2 hours of commercials.....commercials, kickoff, commercials. :mad:

The corporate types can keep the tix so I can continue to watch the games on my bigscreen without all the hassle.

BrooklynBound · 10-06-2009, 10:33 PM

[QUOTE=cr726;3293572]A major fail? Let's talk about the sales guy who care less what he pays for the tix because he gets it back from the company? The guy who walks out at halftime and doesn't know what the score is or will be? He/she goes on stubhub and pays 200.00 for a 100.00 ticket and could care less because it doesn't cost him anything.
You think that has effected the current ticket prices?[/QUOTE]

What does that have to do with what I quoted?

Supply/demand affects prices, you're right. Peeps don't have a right to see a game at a price that they deem is reasonable.

cr726 · 10-06-2009, 10:37 PM

Especially when their company is paying the bill.

[QUOTE=BrooklynBound;3293654]What does that have to do with what I quoted?

Supply/demand affects prices, you're right. Peeps don't have a right to see a game at a price that they deem is reasonable.[/QUOTE]

2milehighJet · 10-06-2009, 10:40 PM

[QUOTE=David Harris;3293648]I want to vomit when I see how expensive it is to go to a single football game when you include parking and food. I went often with my dad as a kid and it just doesn't seem worth it to take my son in the future.

Some guys in the league are getting nearly million dollar paychecks. How many of us does it take going through the terrible traffic, paying $20 to park in a swamp, getting ripped off at every corner to pay this one player for a week of work?

[B]It disgusts me. I love football. But the effort and expense of going to a game is prohibitive on principal as well as pragmatics. The worst part is that if enough of us feel this way and can't pay their ridiculous asking price they will black out the games so I can't watch them and their 2 hours of commercials.....commercials, kickoff, commercials. [/B]:mad:

The corporate types can keep the tix so I can continue to watch the games on my bigscreen without all the hassle.[/QUOTE]

I dont know the economy of Jacksonville, but folks are not going to the game, so it gets blackedout, however I see their answer to this problem is eventually packing up that franchise and moving it to L.A. or San Antonio, so the fan continues to suffer, and the owner makes out still.

10-06-2009, 01:41 AM	#1
jetstream23 recovering from turf toe Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ (New Jets Stadium Section 246) Posts: 31,545	Corporations Wasted Estimated 43% of Sports Tickets Last Year [url]http://www.cnbc.com/id/33182576[/url] [QUOTE][B]Corporations Wasted Estimated 43% of Sports Tickets Last Year[/B] DARREN ROVELL, SPORTSBIZ, SPORTS, CNBC, CNBC.COM, BLOG, SPORTS BUSINESS Posted By: Darren Rovell \| Sports Business Reporter cnbc.com \| 05 Oct 2009 \| 05:08 PM ET One of the most highly scrutinized pieces of spending by public companies during the economic downturn was sports sponsorship and bringing clients to live sporting events. And it made sense. Companies that said they used sports to do business didn’t do a particularly good job of publicly rationalizing that spend. Enter Corporate Events Group, one of a select group of companies that has helped businesses at least internally understand the return on their investment from doing business at the game. Because of inefficiencies, starting at how companies hold and manage the ticket process, 43 percent of tickets bought by corporations went unused in 2008, according to Anthony Knopp, vice president of business development for the company. Knopp’s company offers a Web-based portal that manages a company’s entire group of ticket holdings. Employees then log on and make requests and are evaluated based on specific business purpose and sometimes quality of guest and the amount of business at stake. The portal also gives the user the opportunity to buy tickets on sites like StubHub if the internal tickets aren’t ideal. Anything taken through the internal system, including tickets bought through secondary sites on the portal, are immediately entered into the company’s database. A company also has the ability to enter the business that was done off a particular meeting at a game so that it can better monitor the return. Knopp said the downturn has helped the company’s business, as keeping track of spending at every level has become more important. “For years, a lot of companies told us that they had bigger fish to fry than keep track of their sports tickets and how they are used,” Knopp said. “And our response was always, ‘Do you have any other marketing campaigns that you spend $10 million on, that you don’t track?” The database allows companies to sort by clients taken to the game, the executive who takes them, as well as the team and the venue where most of the business takes place. It also helps companies compile a comprehensive list of their spending for the tax deduction that they can take from going to the game as a business expense. Knopp says Corporate Events Group has 12 companies that spend more than $4 million on tickets as clients, as well as a host of brands that spend less. “We had one company that had Tampa Bay Rays tickets and used 9 percent of the total inventory on the season,” Knopp said. “That investment obviously had to be scaled back. We think that it’s realistic for a company to use between 78 and 85 percent of the tickets they buy.[/QUOTE] I should probably throw this in the PSL ticket sales thread too. Might help explain the hard time the Jets are having selling Club Level PSLs for the new stadium.

10-06-2009, 10:04 AM	#10
southparkcpa I see the 88 to 97 period all over again. Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NC Posts: 15,686	[QUOTE=FF2®;3292341]Holy Crap. Are you really a CPA? :eek:[/QUOTE] I work in a dry cleaners. C leanings P ressings A lterations Last edited by southparkcpa; 10-06-2009 at 10:13 AM.

10-06-2009, 03:40 AM	#2
Ryan Boru thankful to live in this great country. Banned Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 470	Since companies can write tickets off as a business expense it gives them an unfair advantage over regular fans in buying tickets. I think this should be ended and I also think everything associated with "entertaining clients" should stop being a tax write off. This country needs so many regulatory reforms its insane.

10-06-2009, 07:06 AM	#3
Bleed Green All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,199	[QUOTE=Ryan Boru;3292143]Since companies can write tickets off as a business expense it gives them an unfair advantage over regular fans in buying tickets. I think this should be ended and I also think everything associated with "entertaining clients" should stop being a tax write off. This country needs so many regulatory reforms its insane.[/QUOTE] As a business owner...You can only write off 20% of the ticket cost. Not enough of a "write off" to be the reason of purchasing tickets and PSL cannot be written off at all.

10-06-2009, 09:34 AM	#4
southparkcpa I see the 88 to 97 period all over again. Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NC Posts: 15,686	[QUOTE=Bleed Green;3292162]As a business owner...You can only write off 20% of the ticket cost. Not enough of a "write off" to be the reason of purchasing tickets and PSL cannot be written off at all.[/QUOTE] 50 percent....not 20 percent but I agree with you fundamentally and you are correct, PSL's are NOT deductible. That said, where do we stop. I say that "Budweiser" should NOT be allowed to advertise at sporting events. They write it off and raise beer prices and I LIKE beer. That is tongue and cheek of course but why is it different????? Why does HONDA pay $2 million to sponsor a golf event????

10-06-2009, 09:41 AM	#5
Vinny Patrollie wicked smaht and onto your tricks Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,894	[QUOTE=southparkcpa;3292288]50 percent....not 20 percent but I agree with you fundamentally and you are correct, PSL's are NOT deductible. That said, where do we stop. I say that "Budweiser" should NOT be allowed to advertise at sporting events. They write it off and raise beer prices and I LIKE beer. That is tongue and cheek of course but why is it different????? Why does HONDA pay $2 million to sponsor a golf event????[/QUOTE] C'Mon southpark, I know numbers confuse you, but you still really blew this one. As a business owner myself, I can write off 50% of the ticket cost as an expense. Given the current corporate tax rates, that means that approximately 20% of the ticket price comes off my tax bill. So Bleed Green is absolutely correct and you sir, are wrong. Hopefully, anyone that has you do their taxes misses this post.:rolleyes: Oh, and GFY.

10-06-2009, 09:57 AM	#6
Beerfish Hall Of Fame Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 19,064	[QUOTE=Ryan Boru;3292143]Since companies can write tickets off as a business expense it gives them an unfair advantage over regular fans in buying tickets. I think this should be ended and I also think everything associated with "entertaining clients" should stop being a tax write off. This country needs so many regulatory reforms its insane.[/QUOTE] I've been saying this for years. I totally agree.

10-06-2009, 10:01 AM	#7
Gholstons Revenge thanking God i'm not a Mets fan All Pro Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,926	[QUOTE=southparkcpa;3292288]50 percent....not 20 percent but I agree with you fundamentally and you are correct, PSL's are NOT deductible. That said, where do we stop. I say that "Budweiser" should NOT be allowed to advertise at sporting events. They write it off and raise beer prices and I LIKE beer. That is tongue and cheek of course but why is it different????? Why does HONDA pay $2 million to sponsor a golf event????[/QUOTE] pass math before you "attempt" to talk numbers

10-06-2009, 10:02 AM	#8
southparkcpa I see the 88 to 97 period all over again. Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NC Posts: 15,686	[QUOTE=Gholstons Revenge;3292336]pass math before you "attempt" to talk numbers[/QUOTE] Dude..... why the hate???

10-06-2009, 10:03 AM	#9
FF2® Believes Sloppy Guy was involved JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 46,092	[QUOTE=southparkcpa;3292288]50 percent....not 20 percent but I agree with you fundamentally and you are correct, PSL's are NOT deductible.[/QUOTE] Holy Crap. Are you really a CPA? :eek:

10-06-2009, 10:06 AM	#11
Vinny Patrollie wicked smaht and onto your tricks Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,894	[QUOTE=southparkcpa;3292344]I work in a dry clears. C leanings P ressings A lterations[/QUOTE] That's your best post in a month!:D

10-06-2009, 10:13 AM	#12
southparkcpa I see the 88 to 97 period all over again. Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NC Posts: 15,686	[QUOTE=Vinny Patrollie;3292347]That's your best post in a month!:D[/QUOTE] This one is better.... C hronic P ain A ss

10-06-2009, 12:03 PM	#13
jetstream23 recovering from turf toe Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ (New Jets Stadium Section 246) Posts: 31,545	[QUOTE=Ryan Boru;3292143][B]Since companies can write tickets off as a business expense it gives them an unfair advantage over regular fans in buying tickets.[/B] I think this should be ended and I also think everything associated with "entertaining clients" should stop being a tax write off. This country needs so many regulatory reforms its insane.[/QUOTE] [url]

10-06-2009, 09:20 PM	#14
BrooklynBound Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 15,550	[QUOTE=Vinny Patrollie;3292298]C'Mon southpark, I know numbers confuse you, but you still really blew this one. As a business owner myself, I can write off 50% of the ticket cost as an expense. Given the current corporate tax rates, that means that approximately 20% of the ticket price comes off my tax bill. So Bleed Green is absolutely correct and you sir, are wrong. Hopefully, anyone that has you do their taxes misses this post.:rolleyes: Oh, and GFY.[/QUOTE] Corporate tax rates are between 15-38%. This thread is a major fail.

10-06-2009, 09:41 PM	#15
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,272	A major fail? Let's talk about the sales guy who care less what he pays for the tix because he gets it back from the company? The guy who walks out at halftime and doesn't know what the score is or will be? He/she goes on stubhub and pays 200.00 for a 100.00 ticket and could care less because it doesn't cost him anything. You think that has effected the current ticket prices? [QUOTE=BrooklynBound;3293535]Corporate tax rates are between 15-38%. This thread is a major fail.[/QUOTE]

10-06-2009, 10:24 PM	#16
2milehighJet Needs to sharpen his edges All League Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Breckenridge, CO Posts: 3,135	I love it when your at a game and they say tonights attendance is...... and the whole lower bowl is empty, yet the top is packed. This is really apparent at hoop and hockey games. Corporations own all the lower seats and they are rarely used. Now with aqll the PSL's and corporations all the fans are going to be in the upper corner endzone seats:eek:

10-06-2009, 10:29 PM	#17
David Harris All Pro Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Murray Hill Posts: 7,093	I want to vomit when I see how expensive it is to go to a single football game when you include parking and food. I went often with my dad as a kid and it just doesn't seem worth it to take my son in the future. Some guys in the league are getting nearly million dollar paychecks. How many of us does it take going through the terrible traffic, paying $20 to park in a swamp, getting ripped off at every corner to pay this one player for a week of work? It disgusts me. I love football. But the effort and expense of going to a game is prohibitive on principal as well as pragmatics. The worst part is that if enough of us feel this way and can't pay their ridiculous asking price they will black out the games so I can't watch them and their 2 hours of commercials.....commercials, kickoff, commercials. :mad: The corporate types can keep the tix so I can continue to watch the games on my bigscreen without all the hassle.

10-06-2009, 10:33 PM	#18
BrooklynBound Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 15,550	[QUOTE=cr726;3293572]A major fail? Let's talk about the sales guy who care less what he pays for the tix because he gets it back from the company? The guy who walks out at halftime and doesn't know what the score is or will be? He/she goes on stubhub and pays 200.00 for a 100.00 ticket and could care less because it doesn't cost him anything. You think that has effected the current ticket prices?[/QUOTE] What does that have to do with what I quoted? Supply/demand affects prices, you're right. Peeps don't have a right to see a game at a price that they deem is reasonable.

10-06-2009, 10:37 PM	#19
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,272	Especially when their company is paying the bill. [QUOTE=BrooklynBound;3293654]What does that have to do with what I quoted? Supply/demand affects prices, you're right. Peeps don't have a right to see a game at a price that they deem is reasonable.[/QUOTE]

10-06-2009, 10:40 PM	#20
2milehighJet Needs to sharpen his edges All League Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Breckenridge, CO Posts: 3,135	[QUOTE=David Harris;3293648]I want to vomit when I see how expensive it is to go to a single football game when you include parking and food. I went often with my dad as a kid and it just doesn't seem worth it to take my son in the future. Some guys in the league are getting nearly million dollar paychecks. How many of us does it take going through the terrible traffic, paying $20 to park in a swamp, getting ripped off at every corner to pay this one player for a week of work? [B]It disgusts me. I love football. But the effort and expense of going to a game is prohibitive on principal as well as pragmatics. The worst part is that if enough of us feel this way and can't pay their ridiculous asking price they will black out the games so I can't watch them and their 2 hours of commercials.....commercials, kickoff, commercials. [/B]:mad: The corporate types can keep the tix so I can continue to watch the games on my bigscreen without all the hassle.[/QUOTE] I dont know the economy of Jacksonville, but folks are not going to the game, so it gets blackedout, however I see their answer to this problem is eventually packing up that franchise and moving it to L.A. or San Antonio, so the fan continues to suffer, and the owner makes out still.