Che

marano · 12-31-2009, 12:21 PM

I watching this as an instant download last night from Netflix. Absolutely great movie, was very historically accurate from all that I have read. Benicio del Toro stars as Che Guaverra. I do not think it will be shown in American theatres and I know it will not be available on DVD from Netflix until Jan. 10th. I do not know if it will even be available for purchase. I do not think our owners really want this story told.

Borgoguy · 12-31-2009, 12:24 PM

[QUOTE=marano;3427998]I watching this as an instant download last night from Netflix. Absolutely great movie, was very historically accurate from all that I have read. Benicio del Toro stars as Che Guaverra. I do not think it will be shown in American theatres and I know it will not be available on DVD from Netflix until Jan. 10th. I do not know if it will even be available for purchase. I do not think [B]our owners[/B] really want this story told.[/QUOTE]

LOL. Thanks. I will look for the flick. I always seem to like del Toro's work. Have a great 2010.

Come Back to NY · 12-31-2009, 12:38 PM

[QUOTE=Borgoguy;3428003]LOL. Thanks. I will look for the flick. I always seem to like del Toro's work. Have a great 2010.[/QUOTE]

you'll be one of the three dozen who'll actually can say they watched the movie- it was a box office flop...

it cost $60mill to make and this "great movie" took in less than $2mill in theaters in America when it was released early this year...

Borgoguy · 12-31-2009, 12:41 PM

[QUOTE=Come Back to NY;3428019]you'll be one of the three dozen who'll actually can say they watched the movie- it was a box office flop...

it cost $60mill to make and this "great movie" took in less than $2mill in theaters when it was released early this year...[/QUOTE]

I've gotta go check out the reviews. Have you seen it? The fact that it was such an H-Bomb has me more interested than ever.

Come Back to NY · 12-31-2009, 12:45 PM

[QUOTE=Borgoguy;3428023]I've gotta go check out the reviews. Have you seen it? The fact that it was such an H-Bomb has me more interested than ever.[/QUOTE]

clips...the movie is four hours long....no way am I sitting four hours to watch a movie about a POS like Che....

Borgoguy · 12-31-2009, 12:49 PM

[QUOTE=Come Back to NY;3428031]clips...the movie is four hours long....no way am I sitting four hours to watch a movie about a POS like Che....[/QUOTE]

I just checked out a few reviews (most favorable). It appears that Soderbergh took an unbiased approach to the telling of Che's story. As you said, and like him or not, 4 1/2 hours is an eternity to sit in a movie theater or in front of a TV.

marano · 12-31-2009, 12:58 PM

[QUOTE=Come Back to NY;3428031]clips...the movie is four hours long....no way am I sitting four hours to watch a movie about a POS like Che....[/QUOTE]

I would expect that you would not want to watch it. You already know all you ever wanted to know about all your ever gonna know. I advise you not to watch it.

Come Back to NY · 12-31-2009, 01:05 PM

[QUOTE=marano;3427998]I watching this as an instant download last night from Netflix. Absolutely great movie, was very historically accurate from all that I have read. Benicio del Toro stars as Che Guaverra. I do not think it will be shown in American theatres and I know it will not be available on DVD from Netflix until Jan. 10th. I do not know if it will even be available for purchase. I do not think our owners really want this story told.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=marano;3428054]I would expect that you would not want to watch it. You already know all you ever wanted to know about all your ever gonna know. I advise you not to watch it.[/QUOTE]

yes...when I want the truth about a topic I run to someone like Steven Soderbergh :shakehead

you know the truth- like you did not think it would ever be shown in American movie theatres but as usual had no fuqin clue....

32green · 12-31-2009, 01:10 PM

[QUOTE=marano;3427998] I do not think our owners really want this story told.[/QUOTE]

Our owners? What are you, Heston in Planet?

:dunno:

BURGERMIKE · 12-31-2009, 01:47 PM

[url]http://www.thoseshirts.com/checap.html[/url]

Bay Ridge Jet · 12-31-2009, 01:53 PM

uh it was in theatres last year as 2 movies. The Argentine and Guerilla.

It flopped.

Equilibrium · 12-31-2009, 02:01 PM

[QUOTE=marano;3427998]I watching this as an instant download last night from Netflix. Absolutely great movie, was very historically accurate from all that I have read. Benicio del Toro stars as Che Guaverra. I do not think it will be shown in American theatres and I know it will not be available on DVD from Netflix until Jan. 10th. I do not know if it will even be available for purchase. I do not think our owners really want this story told.[/QUOTE]

"Owners"?

I saw the film at a film festival in Miami. That is a town filled with the victims of the revolution and Guevara's kangaroo courts, show trials and executions yet, it was shown there.

Historically at least, his legacy will be his fundamental misunderstanding of the human condition and his subsequent misguided concept of forcing revolution and the ideology of communism on the majority of a country's citizens through a dictatorship of the "vanguard". That fallacy led to his near death in Africa and his final defeat in Bolivia. In essence, he had a formula for seizing power by force, but could never elaborate how to govern after its seizure- violence had become its own justification for him.

In counterinsurgency circles, he is seen as the ultimate example of a failed "revolutionary" or "insurgent" who believed that violence and imposition rather than understanding and manipulating local grievances was the key to victory.

aagarcia · 12-31-2009, 02:05 PM

[QUOTE=Equilibrium;3428166]"Owners"?

I saw the film at a film festival in Miami. That is a town filled with the victims of the revolution and Guevara's kangaroo courts, show trials and executions yet, it was shown there.

Historically at least, his legacy will be his fundamental misunderstanding of the human condition and his subsequent misguided concept of forcing revolution and the ideology of communism on the majority of a country's citizens through a dictatorship of the "vanguard". That fallacy led to his near death in Africa and his final defeat in Bolivia. In essence, he had a formula for seizing power by force, but could never elaborate how to govern after its seizure- violence had become its own justification for him.

In counterinsurgency circles, he is seen as the ultimate example of a failed "revolutionary" or "insurgent" who believed that violence and imposition rather than understanding and manipulating local grievances was the key to victory.[/QUOTE]

I live in Miami and am Cuban-American. Well said.

Come Back to NY · 12-31-2009, 02:17 PM

[QUOTE=Borgoguy;3428039]I just checked out a few reviews (most favorable). It appears that Soderbergh took an unbiased approach to the telling of Che's story. As you said, and like him or not, 4 1/2 hours is an eternity to sit in a movie theater or in front of a TV.[/QUOTE]

I would disagree boro....

I don't think anyone could ever do an unbiased movie on che', especially hollywood where he's viewed through rose colored glasses...

if you watch for entertainment purposes that's one thing- but I would not watch for a historical perspective, considering the reading I've done on che'...

Example- I was looking forward to seeing Munich by Spielberg as I remember the munich massacre and have done a lot of reading on it since...I wanted to see how speilberg presented it- five minutes into the movie there were historical errors, things that never happened but were injected just for entertainment purposes...

32green · 12-31-2009, 02:19 PM

[QUOTE=Equilibrium;3428166]

In counterinsurgency circles, he is seen as the ultimate example of a failed "revolutionary" or "insurgent" who believed that violence and imposition rather than understanding and manipulating local grievances was the key to victory.[/QUOTE]

Thats what I would have posted if I wasnt an functional mongoloid.

:yes:

Come Back to NY · 12-31-2009, 02:19 PM

[QUOTE=BURGERMIKE;3428136][url]http://www.thoseshirts.com/checap.html[/url][/QUOTE]

some dude in my gym where's a t-shirt and it's hysterical....

its' got Che's picture on it and underneath reads, "[B][I]I have no idea who this guy is but he sells a lot of t-shirts.[/I][/B]

marano · 12-31-2009, 02:21 PM

Castro and Guaverra could not have suceeded in REVOLUTIONIZING Cuba without the will of a vast majority of the people, much less having led the country until say NOW without the will of the majority of the people. To think that a rag-tag bunch that was much, much smaller in number than the Batista's Cuban army was at the time, could suceed without the will of the Cuban people is just not pluasable. Not only that but they have endured under a constant embargo imposed by the U.S. every since. For this to be such a good movie I have seen very little about it and I promise you that it was not shown in Theatres in my part of Alabama.

PlumberKhan · 12-31-2009, 02:52 PM

[IMG]http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/12/31/129067624649097833.jpg[/IMG]

JStokes · 12-31-2009, 05:19 PM

The funny thing is, watch the movie The Motorcycle Diaries.

It's about Che's early years and a motorbike trip he takes across South America.

If you didn't know anything about him, the way he was depicted, you'd think he was Mother Theresa, except a man.

Equilibrium · 12-31-2009, 05:36 PM

[QUOTE=marano;3428214]Castro and Guaverra could not have suceeded in REVOLUTIONIZING Cuba without the will of a vast majority of the people, much less having led the country until say NOW without the will of the majority of the people. To think that a rag-tag bunch that was much, much smaller in number than the Batista's Cuban army was at the time, could suceed without the will of the Cuban people is just not pluasable. Not only that but they have endured under a constant embargo imposed by the U.S. every since. For this to be such a good movie I have seen very little about it and I promise you that it was not shown in Theatres in my part of Alabama.[/QUOTE]

Without turning this into a political thread, I would only venture to say that Castro and the 26 of July Movement was not the only revolutionary movement on the island, it was, for a long time, not even the most predominant one. Nor was it an avowedly socialist one.

By the time Batista fled the country, the primary movements, the urban insurgencies' leadership had been decapitated and Batista had lost the support of the middle class and wealthy about two years before. Batista had long been conscious of the need to maintain such political support. Fidel Castro had survived his arrest and trial for his failed assault on the Moncada Army Base in the early '50's because of the influence of his wealthy father and his politically influential in-laws- the grandparents of US Representative Diaz Balart of Florida. His sentence was commuted from death to eventual exile to Mexico.

Castro learned this lesson well; when he came to power, he eliminated the anti-socialists and moderates from his 26 of July movement through imprisonment, forced exile or, in certain cases, execution while proclaiming that his revolution was not red as communist, but green as he island and based on democratic principles. Under the guise of claiming that Batista's fall had led to the collapse of the Cuban government, he obtained total control of the state and its institutions under "state of emergency" with the promise of free elections in 1960-1. Secretly, he obtained Soviet support to obtain the political support and weapons to defend his regime from internal and external challengers. The US was aware of this and planned the Bay of Pigs; its execution gave Castro the pretext to postpone the elections indefinitely under the claim of perpetual state of emergency for the next 50 years.

A good analogy to would be to observe what Hugo Chavez in Venezuela has been attempting to do for the last eight years. He has been trying to create a pretext to proclaim perpetual rule, but the Venezuelan people would not support such a blatant proclamation (according to polls overwhelmingly conscious of the Cuban example- even among his supporters), thus, he has used elections and referendums to legitimize his rule, but will only call referendums when he is confident of his prospects and will seek to manipulate voters and marginalize the opposition in election years.

With him trying to provoke a crisis with Colombia and the US in a time when Venezuela's economy is near collapse, he knows this is likely his last opportunity to achieve his goal. in short, he trying to utilize similar methods used by Castro, but drawn over a longer period of time to avoid provoking a reaction.

12-31-2009, 12:21 PM	#1
marano Put McElroy in.!!! Banned Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Alabama Posts: 792	Che I watching this as an instant download last night from Netflix. Absolutely great movie, was very historically accurate from all that I have read. Benicio del Toro stars as Che Guaverra. I do not think it will be shown in American theatres and I know it will not be available on DVD from Netflix until Jan. 10th. I do not know if it will even be available for purchase. I do not think our owners really want this story told.

12-31-2009, 12:58 PM	#7
marano Put McElroy in.!!! Banned Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Alabama Posts: 792	Expect that from you. [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;3428031]clips...the movie is four hours long....no way am I sitting four hours to watch a movie about a POS like Che....[/QUOTE] I would expect that you would not want to watch it. You already know all you ever wanted to know about all your ever gonna know. I advise you not to watch it.

12-31-2009, 01:05 PM	#8
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[QUOTE=marano;3427998]I watching this as an instant download last night from Netflix. Absolutely great movie, was very historically accurate from all that I have read. Benicio del Toro stars as Che Guaverra. I do not think it will be shown in American theatres and I know it will not be available on DVD from Netflix until Jan. 10th. I do not know if it will even be available for purchase. I do not think our owners really want this story told.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=marano;3428054]I would expect that you would not want to watch it. You already know all you ever wanted to know about all your ever gonna know. I advise you not to watch it.[/QUOTE] yes...when I want the truth about a topic I run to someone like Steven Soderbergh :shakehead you know the truth- like you did not think it would ever be shown in American movie theatres but as usual had no fuqin clue.... Last edited by Come Back to NY; 12-31-2009 at 01:10 PM.

12-31-2009, 01:47 PM	#10
BURGERMIKE Making turns in the Rockies Hall Of Fame Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 3,780	[url]http://www.thoseshirts.com/checap.html[/url] Last edited by BURGERMIKE; 12-31-2009 at 01:49 PM.

12-31-2009, 02:21 PM	#17
marano Put McElroy in.!!! Banned Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Alabama Posts: 792	Well I says this Castro and Guaverra could not have suceeded in REVOLUTIONIZING Cuba without the will of a vast majority of the people, much less having led the country until say NOW without the will of the majority of the people. To think that a rag-tag bunch that was much, much smaller in number than the Batista's Cuban army was at the time, could suceed without the will of the Cuban people is just not pluasable. Not only that but they have endured under a constant embargo imposed by the U.S. every since. For this to be such a good movie I have seen very little about it and I promise you that it was not shown in Theatres in my part of Alabama.

12-31-2009, 12:24 PM	#2
Borgoguy On a mission to educate and enthrall. Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,569	[QUOTE=marano;3427998]I watching this as an instant download last night from Netflix. Absolutely great movie, was very historically accurate from all that I have read. Benicio del Toro stars as Che Guaverra. I do not think it will be shown in American theatres and I know it will not be available on DVD from Netflix until Jan. 10th. I do not know if it will even be available for purchase. I do not think [B]our owners[/B] really want this story told.[/QUOTE] LOL. Thanks. I will look for the flick. I always seem to like del Toro's work. Have a great 2010.

12-31-2009, 12:38 PM	#3
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[QUOTE=Borgoguy;3428003]LOL. Thanks. I will look for the flick. I always seem to like del Toro's work. Have a great 2010.[/QUOTE] you'll be one of the three dozen who'll actually can say they watched the movie- it was a box office flop... it cost $60mill to make and this "great movie" took in less than $2mill in theaters in America when it was released early this year...

12-31-2009, 12:41 PM	#4
Borgoguy On a mission to educate and enthrall. Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,569	[QUOTE=Come Back to NY;3428019]you'll be one of the three dozen who'll actually can say they watched the movie- it was a box office flop... it cost $60mill to make and this "great movie" took in less than $2mill in theaters when it was released early this year...[/QUOTE] I've gotta go check out the reviews. Have you seen it? The fact that it was such an H-Bomb has me more interested than ever.

12-31-2009, 12:45 PM	#5
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[QUOTE=Borgoguy;3428023]I've gotta go check out the reviews. Have you seen it? The fact that it was such an H-Bomb has me more interested than ever.[/QUOTE] clips...the movie is four hours long....no way am I sitting four hours to watch a movie about a POS like Che....

12-31-2009, 12:49 PM	#6
Borgoguy On a mission to educate and enthrall. Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,569	[QUOTE=Come Back to NY;3428031]clips...the movie is four hours long....no way am I sitting four hours to watch a movie about a POS like Che....[/QUOTE] I just checked out a few reviews (most favorable). It appears that Soderbergh took an unbiased approach to the telling of Che's story. As you said, and like him or not, 4 1/2 hours is an eternity to sit in a movie theater or in front of a TV.

12-31-2009, 01:10 PM	#9
32green neerg23 Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The depths of Despair. Posts: 37,714	[QUOTE=marano;3427998] I do not think our owners really want this story told.[/QUOTE] Our owners? What are you, Heston in Planet? :dunno:

12-31-2009, 01:53 PM	#11
Bay Ridge Jet All Pro Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New York City Posts: 7,198	uh it was in theatres last year as 2 movies. The Argentine and Guerilla. It flopped.

12-31-2009, 02:01 PM	#12
Equilibrium Why you would shoot a man before throwing him off a plane? All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,548	[QUOTE=marano;3427998]I watching this as an instant download last night from Netflix. Absolutely great movie, was very historically accurate from all that I have read. Benicio del Toro stars as Che Guaverra. I do not think it will be shown in American theatres and I know it will not be available on DVD from Netflix until Jan. 10th. I do not know if it will even be available for purchase. I do not think our owners really want this story told.[/QUOTE] "Owners"? I saw the film at a film festival in Miami. That is a town filled with the victims of the revolution and Guevara's kangaroo courts, show trials and executions yet, it was shown there. Historically at least, his legacy will be his fundamental misunderstanding of the human condition and his subsequent misguided concept of forcing revolution and the ideology of communism on the majority of a country's citizens through a dictatorship of the "vanguard". That fallacy led to his near death in Africa and his final defeat in Bolivia. In essence, he had a formula for seizing power by force, but could never elaborate how to govern after its seizure- violence had become its own justification for him. In counterinsurgency circles, he is seen as the ultimate example of a failed "revolutionary" or "insurgent" who believed that violence and imposition rather than understanding and manipulating local grievances was the key to victory.

12-31-2009, 02:05 PM	#13
aagarcia Practice Squad Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 401	[QUOTE=Equilibrium;3428166]"Owners"? I saw the film at a film festival in Miami. That is a town filled with the victims of the revolution and Guevara's kangaroo courts, show trials and executions yet, it was shown there. Historically at least, his legacy will be his fundamental misunderstanding of the human condition and his subsequent misguided concept of forcing revolution and the ideology of communism on the majority of a country's citizens through a dictatorship of the "vanguard". That fallacy led to his near death in Africa and his final defeat in Bolivia. In essence, he had a formula for seizing power by force, but could never elaborate how to govern after its seizure- violence had become its own justification for him. In counterinsurgency circles, he is seen as the ultimate example of a failed "revolutionary" or "insurgent" who believed that violence and imposition rather than understanding and manipulating local grievances was the key to victory.[/QUOTE] I live in Miami and am Cuban-American. Well said.

12-31-2009, 02:17 PM	#14
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[QUOTE=Borgoguy;3428039]I just checked out a few reviews (most favorable). It appears that Soderbergh took an unbiased approach to the telling of Che's story. As you said, and like him or not, 4 1/2 hours is an eternity to sit in a movie theater or in front of a TV.[/QUOTE] I would disagree boro.... I don't think anyone could ever do an unbiased movie on che', especially hollywood where he's viewed through rose colored glasses... if you watch for entertainment purposes that's one thing- but I would not watch for a historical perspective, considering the reading I've done on che'... Example- I was looking forward to seeing Munich by Spielberg as I remember the munich massacre and have done a lot of reading on it since...I wanted to see how speilberg presented it- five minutes into the movie there were historical errors, things that never happened but were injected just for entertainment purposes...

12-31-2009, 02:19 PM	#15
32green neerg23 Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The depths of Despair. Posts: 37,714	[QUOTE=Equilibrium;3428166] In counterinsurgency circles, he is seen as the ultimate example of a failed "revolutionary" or "insurgent" who believed that violence and imposition rather than understanding and manipulating local grievances was the key to victory.[/QUOTE] Thats what I would have posted if I wasnt an functional mongoloid. :yes:

12-31-2009, 02:52 PM	#18
PlumberKhan HAIL SATAN! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,080	[IMG]http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/12/31/129067624649097833.jpg[/IMG]

12-31-2009, 05:19 PM	#19
JStokes Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bergen County, NJ Posts: 20,126	The funny thing is, watch the movie The Motorcycle Diaries. It's about Che's early years and a motorbike trip he takes across South America. If you didn't know anything about him, the way he was depicted, you'd think he was Mother Theresa, except a man.

12-31-2009, 05:36 PM	#20
Equilibrium Why you would shoot a man before throwing him off a plane? All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,548	[QUOTE=marano;3428214]Castro and Guaverra could not have suceeded in REVOLUTIONIZING Cuba without the will of a vast majority of the people, much less having led the country until say NOW without the will of the majority of the people. To think that a rag-tag bunch that was much, much smaller in number than the Batista's Cuban army was at the time, could suceed without the will of the Cuban people is just not pluasable. Not only that but they have endured under a constant embargo imposed by the U.S. every since. For this to be such a good movie I have seen very little about it and I promise you that it was not shown in Theatres in my part of Alabama.[/QUOTE] Without turning this into a political thread, I would only venture to say that Castro and the 26 of July Movement was not the only revolutionary movement on the island, it was, for a long time, not even the most predominant one. Nor was it an avowedly socialist one. By the time Batista fled the country, the primary movements, the urban insurgencies' leadership had been decapitated and Batista had lost the support of the middle class and wealthy about two years before. Batista had long been conscious of the need to maintain such political support. Fidel Castro had survived his arrest and trial for his failed assault on the Moncada Army Base in the early '50's because of the influence of his wealthy father and his politically influential in-laws- the grandparents of US Representative Diaz Balart of Florida. His sentence was commuted from death to eventual exile to Mexico. Castro learned this lesson well; when he came to power, he eliminated the anti-socialists and moderates from his 26 of July movement through imprisonment, forced exile or, in certain cases, execution while proclaiming that his revolution was not red as communist, but green as he island and based on democratic principles. Under the guise of claiming that Batista's fall had led to the collapse of the Cuban government, he obtained total control of the state and its institutions under "state of emergency" with the promise of free elections in 1960-1. Secretly, he obtained Soviet support to obtain the political support and weapons to defend his regime from internal and external challengers. The US was aware of this and planned the Bay of Pigs; its execution gave Castro the pretext to postpone the elections indefinitely under the claim of perpetual state of emergency for the next 50 years. A good analogy to would be to observe what Hugo Chavez in Venezuela has been attempting to do for the last eight years. He has been trying to create a pretext to proclaim perpetual rule, but the Venezuelan people would not support such a blatant proclamation (according to polls overwhelmingly conscious of the Cuban example- even among his supporters), thus, he has used elections and referendums to legitimize his rule, but will only call referendums when he is confident of his prospects and will seek to manipulate voters and marginalize the opposition in election years. With him trying to provoke a crisis with Colombia and the US in a time when Venezuela's economy is near collapse, he knows this is likely his last opportunity to achieve his goal. in short, he trying to utilize similar methods used by Castro, but drawn over a longer period of time to avoid provoking a reaction.