Arab-American students evoke 9/11 in t-shirt - Page 2

Come Back to NY · 01-06-2010, 03:22 PM

[QUOTE=jetswin;3438342]Just make sure no one sings any Christmas carols...[/QUOTE]

or wears a t-shirt that insults muslims....

PlumberKhan · 01-06-2010, 03:24 PM

[QUOTE=jetswin;3438342]Just make sure no one sings any Christmas carols...[/QUOTE]

Or professes their non-belief...;)

chesapeakejet · 01-06-2010, 03:26 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish;3438326]As opposed to the "fake" High School I spent those 4 years in? If only I'd known at the time it was all a fake sham! :rolleyes:

And again, comparing this shirt to a "Hitler was Right" shirt is such a leap as to be unfathomably silly. This is exactly the problem that us "Ivory tower" guys have to protect against....the expansion of limits from the logical, to the mere "meh, I'm offended so it should be banned" mentallity of Political Correctness and self-important-wanna-be-Thought-Police run amok.

Like I said, it's all fun and games till they come for you.[/QUOTE]

I think you misunderstand my position. All I'm saying is, you go to a govt. funded school, then expect to play by their rules. Why do you think people home school kids?

jetswin · 01-06-2010, 03:26 PM

[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;3438358]Or professes their non-belief...;)[/QUOTE]
lol...yes that too

32green · 01-06-2010, 03:28 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish;3438253]Lol, this utter abject ignorance of Ches's statement is.....stunning.

[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes:

[url]

long island leprechaun · 01-06-2010, 03:31 PM

[QUOTE=chesapeakejet;3437998]Sorry. The bill of rights for minors stop at the schoolhouse doors. Govt. funds these schools and one has to dance to the tune of the one that's playing the music! It's always been this way Warfish.[/QUOTE]

What's surprising is how FEW places there are where one can exercise true free speech. Rule out federal funding, state funding, city funding, township funding, private property and you've got the old soapbox in the park... but don't draw a crowd. You'll be arrested for creating a nuisance or some other local ordinance. The least of my worries would be what a bunch of lame teenagers in a public high school have to say about pretty much anything...

PlumberKhan · 01-06-2010, 03:34 PM

[QUOTE=chesapeakejet;3438362]Why do you think people home school kids?[/QUOTE]

Because it was cheaper for my Dad to afford that through the mail home school thing than it was for him to afford that psychologist the school wanted me to go to?

chesapeakejet · 01-06-2010, 03:35 PM

[QUOTE=long island leprechaun;3438378]What's surprising is how FEW places there are where one can exercise true free speech. Rule out federal funding, state funding, city funding, township funding, private property and you've got the old soapbox in the park... but don't draw a crowd. You'll be arrested for creating a nuisance or some other local ordinance. The least of my worries would be what a bunch of lame teenagers in a public high school have to say about pretty much anything...[/QUOTE]

I wish I had a nickel for every law on the books.

chesapeakejet · 01-06-2010, 03:36 PM

[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;3438388]Because it was cheaper for my Dad to afford that through the mail home school thing than it was for him to afford that psychologist the school wanted me to go to?[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

:rolleyes:

Warfish · 01-06-2010, 03:37 PM

[QUOTE=chesapeakejet;3438354]I may be ignorant but I don't live on fantasy island. I just told you the truth. You can handle the truth, can't you?

Bottom line, it is what it is.[/QUOTE]

Must.....not.......poast......Youtube Links.....to "Da Plane, Da Plane"......or Heaven Help us......Jack Nicholson......aaaaaaaahhhhghggggg.

AFCEastFan · 01-06-2010, 03:43 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish;3437927]Sorry, but it's not a schools (Government's) job to decide what is, or isn't "good taste", or "acceptable" forms of legal speech.

If it's legal (i.e. no nudity ro profanity) it should be permitted. Period. There is no "right to not be offended" anywhere in our founding documents or legal system. Rightfully so.

No matter how incredably stupid it may be (and it is, obviously) it shouldn't be the schools job to make determinations of permission based on "good tatse" or the offendedness of others.

Today the "good tatse" facists stop this, and we cheer. Tomorrow they stop something else, and we go "meh, ok I guess". The next day, they will come for you.[/QUOTE]

Thank you, Robert Bork. (Not meant to be an insult; your post just reads like a passage from [I]The Tempting of America[/I], which I read years ago and enjoyed).

Come Back to NY · 01-06-2010, 03:44 PM

[QUOTE=32green;3438369]:rolleyes:

[url]

ubrnostrum · 01-06-2010, 03:46 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish;3438326]As opposed to the "fake" High School I spent those 4 years in? If only I'd known at the time it was all a fake sham! :rolleyes:

And again, comparing this shirt to a "Hitler was Right" shirt is such a leap as to be unfathomably silly. This is exactly the problem that us "Ivory tower" guys have to protect against....the expansion of limits from the logical, to the mere "meh, I'm offended so it should be banned" mentallity of Political Correctness and self-important-wanna-be-Thought-Police run amok.

Like I said, it's all fun and games till they come for you.[/QUOTE]

You're not seeing the point of the examples that I used. Granted mine goes a bit further, but the shirt that the kids wore was obviously used as a shock factor. my comparisons weren't all that silly. They will both garner a negative reaction and could possibly bring about violence to the wearer. One of the earlier posters asked a very good question: imagine that this had been done in a NY high school. I'd venture to guess that the wearer of this t-shirt (especially since he's an "arab") has put himself in a position where his safety could be compromised -- NY or not NY. If you think that a school full of 16 year olds will merely shun this kid or ignore him in order to teach him a lesson, then I have to ask which one of our ideas is more unfathomably silly. Bottom line is that a school definitely has a right to impose and enforce dress codes. Clothing can be a massive distraction from schoolwork if used properly.

JetPotato · 01-06-2010, 03:47 PM

[QUOTE=chesapeakejet;3438362]I think you misunderstand my position. All I'm saying is, you go to a govt. funded school, then expect to play by their rules. Why do you think people home school kids?[/QUOTE]

And I think what WF is saying is that as long as the government is funded by the taxpayers, then the goverment should have no restrictions on how those taxpayers (or their kids) choose to express themselves.

chesapeakejet · 01-06-2010, 03:50 PM

[QUOTE=JetPotato;3438413]And I think what WF is saying is that as long as the government is funded by the taxpayers, then the goverment should have no restrictions on how those taxpayers (or their kids) choose to express themselves.[/QUOTE]

That's where the waters get muddied. We all pay taxes but have different opinions.

Come Back to NY · 01-06-2010, 03:51 PM

[QUOTE=JetPotato;3438413]And I think what WF is saying is that as long as the government is funded by the taxpayers, then the goverment should have no restrictions on how those taxpayers (or their kids) choose to express themselves.[/QUOTE]

but its' not the government- its' school officials that are making the decision....school officials who are usually put in place by the local school board who is voted on or agreed upon to represent the taxpayors of the school's town by those same taxpayors...

JetPotato · 01-06-2010, 04:00 PM

[QUOTE=chesapeakejet;3438425]That's where the waters get muddied. We all pay taxes but have different opinions.[/QUOTE]

Which is exactly why the government should have nothing to say about any aspect of your personal life. It exists only to provide service and protect your liberties, not to regulate or eliminate them based on opinions. You should be free to do whatever you wish, as long as your actions are not infringing on the rights of anyone else.

This t-shirt is not infringing on anyone's freedom. Problem is, most of this country confuses their opinion and their feelings with their [I]rights[/I].

JetPotato · 01-06-2010, 04:01 PM

[QUOTE=Come Back to NY;3438430]but its' not the government- its' school officials that are making the decision....school officials who are usually put in place by the local school board who is voted on or agreed upon to represent the taxpayors of the school's town by those same taxpayors...[/QUOTE]

That's called [I]local[/I] government

chesapeakejet · 01-06-2010, 04:03 PM

[QUOTE=JetPotato;3438444]Which is exactly why the government should have nothing to say about any aspect of your personal life. It exists only to provide service and protect your liberties, not to regulate or eliminate them based on opinions. You should be free to do whatever you wish, as long as your actions are not infringing on the rights of anyone else.

This t-shirt is not infringing on anyone's freedom. Problem is, most of this country confuses their opinion and their feelings with their [I]rights[/I].[/QUOTE]

So it's ok to burn the flag then?

FWIW I think we should abolish the IRS and Income Tax.

JetPotato · 01-06-2010, 04:06 PM

[QUOTE=chesapeakejet;3438450]So it's ok to burn the flag then?

FWIW I think we should abolish the IRS and Income Tax.[/QUOTE]

It should be, yes. You'd be a total dooshnozzle, but that's your right to choose to do it.

And yes, we should absolutely abolish the IRS and income tax. I suppose you are also a FairTax fan, as am I.

01-06-2010, 03:22 PM	#21
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[QUOTE=jetswin;3438342]Just make sure no one sings any Christmas carols...[/QUOTE] or wears a t-shirt that insults muslims....

01-06-2010, 03:24 PM	#22
PlumberKhan BRACE YOURSELVES FOR 12... Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,013	[QUOTE=jetswin;3438342]Just make sure no one sings any Christmas carols...[/QUOTE] Or professes their non-belief...;)

01-06-2010, 03:26 PM	#23
chesapeakejet is a geek who loves football boardgames. Schluberator & Gadfly ® Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 24,503	[QUOTE=Warfish;3438326]As opposed to the "fake" High School I spent those 4 years in? If only I'd known at the time it was all a fake sham! :rolleyes: And again, comparing this shirt to a "Hitler was Right" shirt is such a leap as to be unfathomably silly. This is exactly the problem that us "Ivory tower" guys have to protect against....the expansion of limits from the logical, to the mere "meh, I'm offended so it should be banned" mentallity of Political Correctness and self-important-wanna-be-Thought-Police run amok. Like I said, it's all fun and games till they come for you.[/QUOTE] I think you misunderstand my position. All I'm saying is, you go to a govt. funded school, then expect to play by their rules. Why do you think people home school kids?

01-06-2010, 03:26 PM	#24
jetswin stumblin mumblin butt fumblin Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Westchester Co. Posts: 35,461	[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;3438358]Or professes their non-belief...;)[/QUOTE] lol...yes that too

01-06-2010, 03:28 PM	#25
32green The original road-kill pus slurper. MMMmmm pus. Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: The depths of Despair. Posts: 37,672	[QUOTE=Warfish;3438253]Lol, this utter abject ignorance of Ches's statement is.....stunning. [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: [url]

01-06-2010, 03:31 PM	#26
long island leprechaun Don't mess with Angel Eyes. All Pro Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: greenwich village, NYC Posts: 7,228	[QUOTE=chesapeakejet;3437998]Sorry. The bill of rights for minors stop at the schoolhouse doors. Govt. funds these schools and one has to dance to the tune of the one that's playing the music! It's always been this way Warfish.[/QUOTE] What's surprising is how FEW places there are where one can exercise true free speech. Rule out federal funding, state funding, city funding, township funding, private property and you've got the old soapbox in the park... but don't draw a crowd. You'll be arrested for creating a nuisance or some other local ordinance. The least of my worries would be what a bunch of lame teenagers in a public high school have to say about pretty much anything...

01-06-2010, 03:34 PM	#27
PlumberKhan BRACE YOURSELVES FOR 12... Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,013	[QUOTE=chesapeakejet;3438362]Why do you think people home school kids?[/QUOTE] Because it was cheaper for my Dad to afford that through the mail home school thing than it was for him to afford that psychologist the school wanted me to go to?

01-06-2010, 03:35 PM	#28
chesapeakejet is a geek who loves football boardgames. Schluberator & Gadfly ® Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 24,503	[QUOTE=long island leprechaun;3438378]What's surprising is how FEW places there are where one can exercise true free speech. Rule out federal funding, state funding, city funding, township funding, private property and you've got the old soapbox in the park... but don't draw a crowd. You'll be arrested for creating a nuisance or some other local ordinance. The least of my worries would be what a bunch of lame teenagers in a public high school have to say about pretty much anything...[/QUOTE] I wish I had a nickel for every law on the books.

01-06-2010, 03:36 PM	#29
chesapeakejet is a geek who loves football boardgames. Schluberator & Gadfly ® Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 24,503	[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;3438388]Because it was cheaper for my Dad to afford that through the mail home school thing than it was for him to afford that psychologist the school wanted me to go to?[/QUOTE] Exactly. :rolleyes:

01-06-2010, 03:37 PM	#30
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=chesapeakejet;3438354]I may be ignorant but I don't live on fantasy island. I just told you the truth. You can handle the truth, can't you? Bottom line, it is what it is.[/QUOTE] Must.....not.......poast......Youtube Links.....to "Da Plane, Da Plane"......or Heaven Help us......Jack Nicholson......aaaaaaaahhhhghggggg.

01-06-2010, 03:43 PM	#31
AFCEastFan Money now -- and a lot more when I get into that office. You can take that to the bank. All League Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4,028	[QUOTE=Warfish;3437927]Sorry, but it's not a schools (Government's) job to decide what is, or isn't "good taste", or "acceptable" forms of legal speech. If it's legal (i.e. no nudity ro profanity) it should be permitted. Period. There is no "right to not be offended" anywhere in our founding documents or legal system. Rightfully so. No matter how incredably stupid it may be (and it is, obviously) it shouldn't be the schools job to make determinations of permission based on "good tatse" or the offendedness of others. Today the "good tatse" facists stop this, and we cheer. Tomorrow they stop something else, and we go "meh, ok I guess". The next day, they will come for you.[/QUOTE] Thank you, Robert Bork. (Not meant to be an insult; your post just reads like a passage from [I]The Tempting of America[/I], which I read years ago and enjoyed).

01-06-2010, 03:44 PM	#32
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[QUOTE=32green;3438369]:rolleyes: [url]

01-06-2010, 03:46 PM	#33
ubrnostrum not economically viable. Veteran Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,601	[QUOTE=Warfish;3438326]As opposed to the "fake" High School I spent those 4 years in? If only I'd known at the time it was all a fake sham! :rolleyes: And again, comparing this shirt to a "Hitler was Right" shirt is such a leap as to be unfathomably silly. This is exactly the problem that us "Ivory tower" guys have to protect against....the expansion of limits from the logical, to the mere "meh, I'm offended so it should be banned" mentallity of Political Correctness and self-important-wanna-be-Thought-Police run amok. Like I said, it's all fun and games till they come for you.[/QUOTE] You're not seeing the point of the examples that I used. Granted mine goes a bit further, but the shirt that the kids wore was obviously used as a shock factor. my comparisons weren't all that silly. They will both garner a negative reaction and could possibly bring about violence to the wearer. One of the earlier posters asked a very good question: imagine that this had been done in a NY high school. I'd venture to guess that the wearer of this t-shirt (especially since he's an "arab") has put himself in a position where his safety could be compromised -- NY or not NY. If you think that a school full of 16 year olds will merely shun this kid or ignore him in order to teach him a lesson, then I have to ask which one of our ideas is more unfathomably silly. Bottom line is that a school definitely has a right to impose and enforce dress codes. Clothing can be a massive distraction from schoolwork if used properly.

01-06-2010, 03:47 PM	#34
JetPotato fermenting Hall Of Fame Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 12,139	[QUOTE=chesapeakejet;3438362]I think you misunderstand my position. All I'm saying is, you go to a govt. funded school, then expect to play by their rules. Why do you think people home school kids?[/QUOTE] And I think what WF is saying is that as long as the government is funded by the taxpayers, then the goverment should have no restrictions on how those taxpayers (or their kids) choose to express themselves.

01-06-2010, 03:50 PM	#35
chesapeakejet is a geek who loves football boardgames. Schluberator & Gadfly ® Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 24,503	[QUOTE=JetPotato;3438413]And I think what WF is saying is that as long as the government is funded by the taxpayers, then the goverment should have no restrictions on how those taxpayers (or their kids) choose to express themselves.[/QUOTE] That's where the waters get muddied. We all pay taxes but have different opinions.

01-06-2010, 03:51 PM	#36
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[QUOTE=JetPotato;3438413]And I think what WF is saying is that as long as the government is funded by the taxpayers, then the goverment should have no restrictions on how those taxpayers (or their kids) choose to express themselves.[/QUOTE] but its' not the government- its' school officials that are making the decision....school officials who are usually put in place by the local school board who is voted on or agreed upon to represent the taxpayors of the school's town by those same taxpayors...

01-06-2010, 04:00 PM	#37
JetPotato fermenting Hall Of Fame Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 12,139	[QUOTE=chesapeakejet;3438425]That's where the waters get muddied. We all pay taxes but have different opinions.[/QUOTE] Which is exactly why the government should have nothing to say about any aspect of your personal life. It exists only to provide service and protect your liberties, not to regulate or eliminate them based on opinions. You should be free to do whatever you wish, as long as your actions are not infringing on the rights of anyone else. This t-shirt is not infringing on anyone's freedom. Problem is, most of this country confuses their opinion and their feelings with their [I]rights[/I].

01-06-2010, 04:01 PM	#38
JetPotato fermenting Hall Of Fame Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 12,139	[QUOTE=Come Back to NY;3438430]but its' not the government- its' school officials that are making the decision....school officials who are usually put in place by the local school board who is voted on or agreed upon to represent the taxpayors of the school's town by those same taxpayors...[/QUOTE] That's called [I]local[/I] government

01-06-2010, 04:03 PM	#39
chesapeakejet is a geek who loves football boardgames. Schluberator & Gadfly ® Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 24,503	[QUOTE=JetPotato;3438444]Which is exactly why the government should have nothing to say about any aspect of your personal life. It exists only to provide service and protect your liberties, not to regulate or eliminate them based on opinions. You should be free to do whatever you wish, as long as your actions are not infringing on the rights of anyone else. This t-shirt is not infringing on anyone's freedom. Problem is, most of this country confuses their opinion and their feelings with their [I]rights[/I].[/QUOTE] So it's ok to burn the flag then? FWIW I think we should abolish the IRS and Income Tax.

01-06-2010, 04:06 PM	#40
JetPotato fermenting Hall Of Fame Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 12,139	[QUOTE=chesapeakejet;3438450]So it's ok to burn the flag then? FWIW I think we should abolish the IRS and Income Tax.[/QUOTE] It should be, yes. You'd be a total dooshnozzle, but that's your right to choose to do it. And yes, we should absolutely abolish the IRS and income tax. I suppose you are also a FairTax fan, as am I.