Coples as an OLB

Ron Swanson · 04-30-2012, 12:44 PM

I just feel like using Coples as a DE/DT is a bit of a waste of his talent/athletic ability. Let's say, hypothetically, we have Devito, Pouha, and Wilkerson on the line eating up blockers. Then imagine Coples and Maybin coming off the edge with their speed. I just feel like Coples' moves and his speed coming off the edge would be a surefire double digit sack guy each year. Does anyone see where i'm coming from?

CR8ZMIKE · 04-30-2012, 12:50 PM

Totally agree. Unless they acutally switch to a 4-3

sg3 · 04-30-2012, 12:54 PM

not sure that 6.6 285 is what you are looking for in an OLB..... or fast enough.

But seriously, let's not suggest position changing.... Coples is a DE... let him play DE

Beerfish · 04-30-2012, 12:58 PM

I was skeptical of Coples and still am a little bit but the tape of him working out at olb for scouts with Rex front and center eased my mind in that regard as he looked quite good.

I was quite surprised to hear Rex immediately declare him a hand in the ground DE. I assume the Jets will be using a lot of different fronts because in a strict 3-4 the DE's are usually play the run, hold the fort kind of guys.

Ron Swanson · 04-30-2012, 12:59 PM

[QUOTE=sg3;4454822]not sure that 6.6 285 is what you are looking for in an OLB..... or fast enough.

But seriously, let's not suggest position changing.... Coples is a DE... let him play DE[/QUOTE]

I agree, but 3-4 DE and 4-3 DE are completely different animals. 3-4 DEs don't get sacks. The best 3-4 DE in the league is Justin Smith and he had 7 sacks last year in one of the greatest 3-4 DE seasons of all time. A 3-4 DE is mostly in the game to eat up blockers and create rush lanes for the LBs...that is the essential theory behind a 3-4 defense.

As far as the measurements, it's pretty close to Mario Williams and he was doing pretty well playing OLB in Wade Phillips' 3-4 last year. It's a little bigger than stalwart 3-4 OLBs Terell Suggs (who played DE in college as well) and LaMarr Woodley.

fidelioion · 04-30-2012, 01:00 PM

[QUOTE=CR8ZMIKE;4454814]Totally agree. Unless they acutally switch to a 4-3[/QUOTE]

I think you're going to see mostly 4-3 this year...

Coples, Ellis, Pouha, Mo - that's a tough front four and then bringing Maybin...

sogreedy23 · 04-30-2012, 01:00 PM

[QUOTE=sg3;4454822]not sure that 6.6 285 is what you are looking for in an OLB..... or fast enough.

But seriously, let's not suggest position changing.... Coples is a DE... let him play DE[/QUOTE]

Agree with this, at least for the beginning. I say this mainly because of our..."success" with the Gholston transition. While I'm not comparing them at all, I'd like the player to assimilate into the league at his natural position if we can help it for now at least. The versatility that Coples possesses will be a huge asset for this team so I really wouldn't be surprised to see him at DT in the 4-3, DE in either set, or playing standing up. Like it, love it, I'm for it.

JETFAN1 · 04-30-2012, 01:02 PM

Jets run a hybrid, there will be plenty of snaps for Coples as a DE.

jamesangleton · 04-30-2012, 01:08 PM

[QUOTE=Ron Swanson;4454801]I just feel like using Coples as a DE/DT is a bit of a waste of his talent/athletic ability. Let's say, hypothetically, we have Devito, Pouha, and Wilkerson on the line eating up blockers. Then imagine Coples and Maybin coming off the edge with their speed. I just feel like Coples' moves and his speed coming off the edge would be a surefire double digit sack guy each year. Does anyone see where i'm coming from?[/QUOTE]

I actually like Coples at LDE. Rather than bookending Coples with Maybin I love the idea of Maybin and Coples on the same side. Maybin being the outside backer and Coples as the LDE. With Devito there was just gridlock but Coples brings pressure and as Rex put it "pushes the QB back" and that added pressure can only be good for a speed rusher like Maybin. To me it's a no brainer and a blocking nightmare for the opposing O-Line.

Joe W. Namath · 04-30-2012, 01:08 PM

Coples is a de in a 4-3. He doesnt fit what we do. If we want to best utilize him, we need to change what we do.

TheMikeIsHot · 04-30-2012, 01:16 PM

[QUOTE=Ron Swanson;4454801]I just feel like using Coples as a DE/DT is a bit of a waste of his talent/athletic ability. Let's say, hypothetically, we have Devito, Pouha, and Wilkerson on the line eating up blockers. Then imagine Coples and Maybin coming off the edge with their speed. I just feel like Coples' moves and his speed coming off the edge would be a surefire double digit sack guy each year. Does anyone see where i'm coming from?[/QUOTE]

I see where you're coming from, and I don't really disagree with the idea... but I'm not sure this is the best way to utilize his ability.

He's a LDE, IMO, similar to Shaun Ellis in a some ways and he's probably better off in a 4 man front.

I think his skillset is best suited with his hand in the dirt as an end who stops the run on his way to the QB. He's never going to be a 13-15 sack guy, IMO. He's more of a 7-10 sack guy who will be an B+ to A- defender against the run with the ability to change games and the way offenses attack the Jets D.

The prototypical 3-4 OLB is a smaller and quicker than Coples IMO. I don't think he has enough short area agility to be a completely dominant OLB like Von Miller.

NYJCAP2 · 04-30-2012, 01:23 PM

[QUOTE=JETFAN1;4454840]Jets run a hybrid, there will be plenty of snaps for Coples as a DE.[/QUOTE]

Agree, labeling this defense is limiting it. The depth is tremendous.

The OP's question should be what are offenses going to do when Coples hand is down and Maybin is rushing the passer behind him?

jetfan51 · 04-30-2012, 01:25 PM

[QUOTE=Ron Swanson;4454801]I just feel like using Coples as a DE/DT is a bit of a waste of his talent/athletic ability. Let's say, hypothetically, we have Devito, Pouha, and Wilkerson on the line eating up blockers. Then imagine Coples and Maybin coming off the edge with their speed. I just feel like Coples' moves and his speed coming off the edge would be a surefire double digit sack guy each year. Does anyone see where i'm coming from?[/QUOTE]

I would have to disagree with you.. he is 6-6 and 285lbs.. This is a big boy here! he is strong enough to rush passer at DT and DE..

The Jets play a multitude of Fronts. 3-4 , 4-3 and can put as little as 1 down lineman on field in certain passing situations..

I think it is very important and valuable to be able to have DL who can rush passer....

I think we have to wait and see how they plan to use him, but like notion of pace, maybin, Coples rushing passer in various combos. factor in big MO..

thegoldengod · 04-30-2012, 01:32 PM

Do you want a good OLB or a Great DE? Rex wants a Great DE right now.

Tanny/Rex also have a little bit on the line in terms of reputation and judge of talent...so getting Coples to succeed early and often is what they want and that is as a DE.

He will slide inside on 3rd and long more than likely given his ability to get to the qb from the inside.

Paradis · 04-30-2012, 01:36 PM

[QUOTE=Beerfish;4454828]I was skeptical of Coples and still am a little bit but [B]the tape of him working out at olb for scouts with Rex front and center eased my mind in that regard as he looked quite good.[/B]

I was quite surprised to hear Rex immediately declare him a hand in the ground DE. I assume the Jets will be using a lot of different fronts because in a strict 3-4 the DE's are usually play the run, hold the fort kind of guys.[/QUOTE]

Agree with your sentiments - however you gotta expect that Rex will is going use Coples all over the field. He's not going to show his hand i think with Coples. I expect to surprise OCs with Coples lined up in some unconventional, or maybe expected formations.

Maury77 · 04-30-2012, 01:44 PM

I know the general sentiment now is that 3-4 DE's do not produce huge sack numbers, but I remember Bruce Smith and Leonard Marshall producing nice sack numbers from the position when I was growing up.

jetfan51 · 04-30-2012, 01:57 PM

[QUOTE=Maury77;4454922]I know the general sentiment now is that 3-4 DE's do not produce huge sack numbers, but I remember Bruce Smith and Leonard Marshall producing nice sack numbers from the position when I was growing up.[/QUOTE]

3-4 DE today are Generally in the 300lb range. More geared to stop run and your Pass Rushers are generally your OLB...

Not easy to find players that size you can rush the passer. at 6-6 285lb.. you can project Coples in that LDE role..

k.Rhodes25 · 04-30-2012, 02:03 PM

[QUOTE=Joe W. Namath;4454850]Coples is a de in a 4-3. He doesnt fit what we do. If we want to best utilize him, we need to change what we do.[/QUOTE]

I guess you go by the text book thinking because they say they are a 3-4 base that means a guy who they say is a 4-3 DE doesn't fit.... There is more to football than that, the Jets play multiple formations on defense. And Coples played DT in college, not just DE. He'll get to rush the passer from inside and outside with the Jets and he can clearly do both...

As for the OP, no Coples is not a OLB.

Dcat · 04-30-2012, 02:19 PM

[QUOTE=Joe W. Namath;4454850]Coples is a de in a 4-3. He doesnt fit what we do. If we want to best utilize him, we need to change what we do.[/QUOTE]

incorrect. He can fit in either formation and quite well. Are you basing your opinion on some analyst that labeled him a 4-3 DE? Please.

Owen Reed · 04-30-2012, 02:21 PM

[QUOTE=Ron Swanson;4454801]I just feel like using Coples as a DE/DT is a bit of a waste of his talent/athletic ability. Let's say, hypothetically, we have Devito, Pouha, and Wilkerson on the line eating up blockers. Then imagine Coples and Maybin coming off the edge with their speed. I just feel like Coples' moves and his speed coming off the edge would be a surefire double digit sack guy each year. Does anyone see where i'm coming from?[/QUOTE]

Rex Ryan disagrees.

04-30-2012, 12:44 PM	#1
Ron Swanson Rookie Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 741	Coples as an OLB I just feel like using Coples as a DE/DT is a bit of a waste of his talent/athletic ability. Let's say, hypothetically, we have Devito, Pouha, and Wilkerson on the line eating up blockers. Then imagine Coples and Maybin coming off the edge with their speed. I just feel like Coples' moves and his speed coming off the edge would be a surefire double digit sack guy each year. Does anyone see where i'm coming from?

04-30-2012, 12:50 PM	#2
CR8ZMIKE Undrafted Free Agent Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Queens NY Posts: 133	Totally agree. Unless they acutally switch to a 4-3

04-30-2012, 12:54 PM	#3
sg3 REX AND THE I-MAN - BACK ON TRACK Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The Big Apple, USA Posts: 20,362	not sure that 6.6 285 is what you are looking for in an OLB..... or fast enough. But seriously, let's not suggest position changing.... Coples is a DE... let him play DE

04-30-2012, 12:58 PM	#4
Beerfish Hall Of Fame Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 19,066	I was skeptical of Coples and still am a little bit but the tape of him working out at olb for scouts with Rex front and center eased my mind in that regard as he looked quite good. I was quite surprised to hear Rex immediately declare him a hand in the ground DE. I assume the Jets will be using a lot of different fronts because in a strict 3-4 the DE's are usually play the run, hold the fort kind of guys.

04-30-2012, 12:59 PM	#5
Ron Swanson Rookie Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 741	[QUOTE=sg3;4454822]not sure that 6.6 285 is what you are looking for in an OLB..... or fast enough. But seriously, let's not suggest position changing.... Coples is a DE... let him play DE[/QUOTE] I agree, but 3-4 DE and 4-3 DE are completely different animals. 3-4 DEs don't get sacks. The best 3-4 DE in the league is Justin Smith and he had 7 sacks last year in one of the greatest 3-4 DE seasons of all time. A 3-4 DE is mostly in the game to eat up blockers and create rush lanes for the LBs...that is the essential theory behind a 3-4 defense. As far as the measurements, it's pretty close to Mario Williams and he was doing pretty well playing OLB in Wade Phillips' 3-4 last year. It's a little bigger than stalwart 3-4 OLBs Terell Suggs (who played DE in college as well) and LaMarr Woodley.

04-30-2012, 01:00 PM	#6
fidelioion alright Veteran Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2,493	[QUOTE=CR8ZMIKE;4454814]Totally agree. Unless they acutally switch to a 4-3[/QUOTE] I think you're going to see mostly 4-3 this year... Coples, Ellis, Pouha, Mo - that's a tough front four and then bringing Maybin...

04-30-2012, 01:00 PM	#7
sogreedy23 Undrafted Free Agent Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 162	[QUOTE=sg3;4454822]not sure that 6.6 285 is what you are looking for in an OLB..... or fast enough. But seriously, let's not suggest position changing.... Coples is a DE... let him play DE[/QUOTE] Agree with this, at least for the beginning. I say this mainly because of our..."success" with the Gholston transition. While I'm not comparing them at all, I'd like the player to assimilate into the league at his natural position if we can help it for now at least. The versatility that Coples possesses will be a huge asset for this team so I really wouldn't be surprised to see him at DT in the 4-3, DE in either set, or playing standing up. Like it, love it, I'm for it.

04-30-2012, 01:02 PM	#8
JETFAN1 Bored Veteran Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 1,782	Jets run a hybrid, there will be plenty of snaps for Coples as a DE.

04-30-2012, 01:08 PM	#9
jamesangleton Veteran Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 475	[QUOTE=Ron Swanson;4454801]I just feel like using Coples as a DE/DT is a bit of a waste of his talent/athletic ability. Let's say, hypothetically, we have Devito, Pouha, and Wilkerson on the line eating up blockers. Then imagine Coples and Maybin coming off the edge with their speed. I just feel like Coples' moves and his speed coming off the edge would be a surefire double digit sack guy each year. Does anyone see where i'm coming from?[/QUOTE] I actually like Coples at LDE. Rather than bookending Coples with Maybin I love the idea of Maybin and Coples on the same side. Maybin being the outside backer and Coples as the LDE. With Devito there was just gridlock but Coples brings pressure and as Rex put it "pushes the QB back" and that added pressure can only be good for a speed rusher like Maybin. To me it's a no brainer and a blocking nightmare for the opposing O-Line.

04-30-2012, 01:08 PM	#10
Joe W. Namath Darrell Bevell for HC in 2014. All Pro Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Boynton Beach, FL Posts: 7,818	Coples is a de in a 4-3. He doesnt fit what we do. If we want to best utilize him, we need to change what we do.

04-30-2012, 01:16 PM	#11
TheMikeIsHot All Pro Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 7,043	[QUOTE=Ron Swanson;4454801]I just feel like using Coples as a DE/DT is a bit of a waste of his talent/athletic ability. Let's say, hypothetically, we have Devito, Pouha, and Wilkerson on the line eating up blockers. Then imagine Coples and Maybin coming off the edge with their speed. I just feel like Coples' moves and his speed coming off the edge would be a surefire double digit sack guy each year. Does anyone see where i'm coming from?[/QUOTE] I see where you're coming from, and I don't really disagree with the idea... but I'm not sure this is the best way to utilize his ability. He's a LDE, IMO, similar to Shaun Ellis in a some ways and he's probably better off in a 4 man front. I think his skillset is best suited with his hand in the dirt as an end who stops the run on his way to the QB. He's never going to be a 13-15 sack guy, IMO. He's more of a 7-10 sack guy who will be an B+ to A- defender against the run with the ability to change games and the way offenses attack the Jets D. The prototypical 3-4 OLB is a smaller and quicker than Coples IMO. I don't think he has enough short area agility to be a completely dominant OLB like Von Miller.

04-30-2012, 01:23 PM	#12
NYJCAP2 All League Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Boston Posts: 3,816	[QUOTE=JETFAN1;4454840]Jets run a hybrid, there will be plenty of snaps for Coples as a DE.[/QUOTE] Agree, labeling this defense is limiting it. The depth is tremendous. The OP's question should be what are offenses going to do when Coples hand is down and Maybin is rushing the passer behind him?

04-30-2012, 01:25 PM	#13
jetfan51 Rookie Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 962	[QUOTE=Ron Swanson;4454801]I just feel like using Coples as a DE/DT is a bit of a waste of his talent/athletic ability. Let's say, hypothetically, we have Devito, Pouha, and Wilkerson on the line eating up blockers. Then imagine Coples and Maybin coming off the edge with their speed. I just feel like Coples' moves and his speed coming off the edge would be a surefire double digit sack guy each year. Does anyone see where i'm coming from?[/QUOTE] I would have to disagree with you.. he is 6-6 and 285lbs.. This is a big boy here! he is strong enough to rush passer at DT and DE.. The Jets play a multitude of Fronts. 3-4 , 4-3 and can put as little as 1 down lineman on field in certain passing situations.. I think it is very important and valuable to be able to have DL who can rush passer.... I think we have to wait and see how they plan to use him, but like notion of pace, maybin, Coples rushing passer in various combos. factor in big MO..

04-30-2012, 01:32 PM	#14
thegoldengod Waterboy Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DC Posts: 70	Do you want a good OLB or a Great DE? Rex wants a Great DE right now. Tanny/Rex also have a little bit on the line in terms of reputation and judge of talent...so getting Coples to succeed early and often is what they want and that is as a DE. He will slide inside on 3rd and long more than likely given his ability to get to the qb from the inside.

04-30-2012, 01:36 PM	#15
Paradis Is waiting for Ryan Mallet All Pro Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: the 80s Posts: 7,107	[QUOTE=Beerfish;4454828]I was skeptical of Coples and still am a little bit but [B]the tape of him working out at olb for scouts with Rex front and center eased my mind in that regard as he looked quite good.[/B] I was quite surprised to hear Rex immediately declare him a hand in the ground DE. I assume the Jets will be using a lot of different fronts because in a strict 3-4 the DE's are usually play the run, hold the fort kind of guys.[/QUOTE] Agree with your sentiments - however you gotta expect that Rex will is going use Coples all over the field. He's not going to show his hand i think with Coples. I expect to surprise OCs with Coples lined up in some unconventional, or maybe expected formations.

04-30-2012, 01:44 PM	#16
Maury77 Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 2,084	I know the general sentiment now is that 3-4 DE's do not produce huge sack numbers, but I remember Bruce Smith and Leonard Marshall producing nice sack numbers from the position when I was growing up.

04-30-2012, 01:57 PM	#17
jetfan51 Rookie Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 962	[QUOTE=Maury77;4454922]I know the general sentiment now is that 3-4 DE's do not produce huge sack numbers, but I remember Bruce Smith and Leonard Marshall producing nice sack numbers from the position when I was growing up.[/QUOTE] 3-4 DE today are Generally in the 300lb range. More geared to stop run and your Pass Rushers are generally your OLB... Not easy to find players that size you can rush the passer. at 6-6 285lb.. you can project Coples in that LDE role..

04-30-2012, 02:03 PM	#18
k.Rhodes25 All League Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 4,873	[QUOTE=Joe W. Namath;4454850]Coples is a de in a 4-3. He doesnt fit what we do. If we want to best utilize him, we need to change what we do.[/QUOTE] I guess you go by the text book thinking because they say they are a 3-4 base that means a guy who they say is a 4-3 DE doesn't fit.... There is more to football than that, the Jets play multiple formations on defense. And Coples played DT in college, not just DE. He'll get to rush the passer from inside and outside with the Jets and he can clearly do both... As for the OP, no Coples is not a OLB.

04-30-2012, 02:19 PM	#19
Dcat I think I see one Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 8,083	[QUOTE=Joe W. Namath;4454850]Coples is a de in a 4-3. He doesnt fit what we do. If we want to best utilize him, we need to change what we do.[/QUOTE] incorrect. He can fit in either formation and quite well. Are you basing your opinion on some analyst that labeled him a 4-3 DE? Please.

04-30-2012, 02:21 PM	#20
Owen Reed Banned Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 671	[QUOTE=Ron Swanson;4454801]I just feel like using Coples as a DE/DT is a bit of a waste of his talent/athletic ability. Let's say, hypothetically, we have Devito, Pouha, and Wilkerson on the line eating up blockers. Then imagine Coples and Maybin coming off the edge with their speed. I just feel like Coples' moves and his speed coming off the edge would be a surefire double digit sack guy each year. Does anyone see where i'm coming from?[/QUOTE] Rex Ryan disagrees.