2 sacks from our starting OLB - Page 2

New Jerzey Jet · 03-23-2010, 02:08 AM

[QUOTE=Dimitri_0515;3534411]Not saying that you're not knowledgable. Would I upgrade over BT if a better player came across? Absolutely. But we have other needs over him and he's been solid as a starter.[/QUOTE]

The only other position in need an upgrade is FS IMO. Along with some DE depth.

But if Earl Thomas doesn't drop, there's really no other FS worth taking in at 29.

We could go DE in the 4th.

Sourceworx · 03-23-2010, 08:59 AM

[QUOTE=New Jerzey Jet;3534375]what comparison?

I'm not really making a comparison, I'm just saying BT sucks lol

[B]And Pace is a solid pass-rusher, but he's never had 10+ sacks. [/B]We need a guy that demands a double team if we truly want to be dominant. We shouldn't have to send 7 guys to get pressure.

and BT had one sack in the playoffs, yeah what a stud :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

If Pace doesn't miss the first 4 games last year, he would have had over 10 sacks.

I think we go after a D-Lineman with our first pick.

SONNY WERBLIN · 03-23-2010, 09:27 AM

[QUOTE=New Jerzey Jet;3534400]He didn't blitz because he's not a good pass-rusher.

In a 3-4 Defense your OLB's are your primary pass-rushers. Rex had to compensate for BT's lack of pass-rushing ability by sending Harris and Scott more often.[/QUOTE]

So, let me get this straight, Rex's D was so confusing to opposing QB's because the "primary pass rusher" (whatever the heck that means) comes from the OLB's. OMG!!!! What the heck are you talking about?? Rex's D is designed to create pressure through overload blitzes coming from anywhere and everywhere. There is no "primary pass rusher". Pace had 8 sacks in 12 games for a number of reasons. First, he is a gifted pass rusher. Second. he is the Left side OLB, which results in him lining up on the side of the O-line frequently not covered by a TE.

Very few teams have 2 OLB who can register double digit sacks. BT is a solid, not spectacular player. He rarely makes mistakes and, unfortunately, is not a gifted pass rusher. If a better option comes along, great. But this is not a position of need for the Jets. Especially, when their starting DE's are too far on the wrong side of 30, and their All Pro NT is 31 coming off 2 injury shortened seasons. Want to improve the pass rush? Get a young stud DE who demands a double team, not an OLB who blitzes from time to time.

palmetto defender · 03-23-2010, 09:40 AM

Just to remind those who have forgotten:

The Jets had the #1 pass defense in the NFL last year. They must have been doing something right up front as well as in the defensive backfield.

Could they be better? Sure. EVERY team in the league could be better. The Jets could use a little tweaking on the DL. Ellis and Douglas are OLD. REAL OLD. Time for new blood at DE. I like Devito as a backup. Key player with a lot of heart. Does he have upside or is he already there? Bring in a DE at 29. No CB. The Jets have two #1s at CB. They have 4 safeties. Three of them have been starters. The Jets need an OLB but not at 29. Round 4.

One Eye · 03-23-2010, 09:48 AM

Fixed....

[QUOTE=palmetto defender;3534505]Just to remind those who have forgotten:

The Jets had the #1 defense in the NFL last year. They don't NEED anything.[/QUOTE]

southside · 03-23-2010, 09:51 AM

People need to realize that this stat isn't going to make one player shine more than the other in our defense. They spread the wealth as has been mentioned with pressure and pass rushing. It's like jailbreak up front on every play. That's hard to defense and that means that anyone of the players on the blitz has the same opportunity to get to the QB.

David Harris put up 5.5, a bunch of non starter DBs put up 5 sacks between them.

What people have to realize is very simple, our defense was BY FAR IN MOST EVERY CATEGORY the #1 statistical defense. They don't need to change anything. The pressure we put on QBs was staggering when they showed the percentage of completed plays in those situations. This team was dominant on defense, and we're going to get even better after losing a problem child and a hack at CB. The Jets will bring in another pass rusher I'm sure but don't forget about guys like Westerman. The Jets like him alot. They're developing him.

Toooon · 03-23-2010, 09:53 AM

[QUOTE=Johnny Drama;3534367]Terrible comparison.

Pace is the primary pass rusher, BT does a lot more of the dirty work.

Plus BT was a freaking STUD in the playoffs.[/QUOTE]

The point is the same. Pace is hardly a dominant pass rusher. He's fine as a complementary guy, but we need to add ad least two legit rushers to this defense.

Beerfish · 03-23-2010, 09:58 AM

I totally agree that you need more sacks and or pressures from the olb position but Thomas was very very good in other areas. I would dearly like to get a pass rushing beats that teams have to game plan for that is for sure but Thomas certainly did not stink lat year.

PaPZ187 · 03-23-2010, 10:11 AM

[QUOTE=Johnny Drama;3534401]We don't run a traditional 3/4. Rex moves and blitz's from everywhere.

We had Jenkins lineup at Mlb on plays before he got hurt, was that because Rex thought he was faster sideline to sideline than D Harris?

You can't get an all pro at every position Bt is a more than adequate starter.[/QUOTE]

+1 Good Post

BT is a very good player, our best cover LBer and plays the run very well, he's solid.

No one has an All Pro at every position, I want them to draft a Pass Rusher at OLBer early as well but doesn't mean I wanna get rid of BT.

Go back and watch the playoff games, made some big plays. Who you think forced that fumble on Coles on that 1st drive of the game when Cinncy was knocking on our door and about to get momentum rolling in their direction? That play was a HUGE momentum swing for us, he also got very good pressure in that game and had a sack, don't forget how he had the Hit of the Week in the SD game laying out one of the play makers.

IMO I want another Pass Rusher too, but doesn't mean we need to dump BT, the guy is very under rated.

augustiniak · 03-23-2010, 10:12 AM

[QUOTE=southside;3534518]People need to realize that this stat isn't going to make one player shine more than the other in our defense. They spread the wealth as has been mentioned with pressure and pass rushing. It's like jailbreak up front on every play. That's hard to defense and that means that anyone of the players on the blitz has the same opportunity to get to the QB.

David Harris put up 5.5, a bunch of non starter DBs put up 5 sacks between them.

What people have to realize is very simple, our defense was BY FAR IN MOST EVERY CATEGORY the #1 statistical defense. They don't need to change anything. The pressure we put on QBs was staggering when they showed the percentage of completed plays in those situations. This team was dominant on defense, and we're going to get even better after losing a problem child and a hack at CB. The Jets will bring in another pass rusher I'm sure but don't forget about guys like Westerman. The Jets like him alot. They're developing him.[/QUOTE]

the jets were tied for 13th in interceptions.

the jets were tied for 18th in sacks

the jets were tied for 15th in forced fumbles.

these are not elite stats. the jets can improve in these categories.

Greaser · 03-23-2010, 10:20 AM

I agree with the basic premise of the OP in stating we need a good solid pass rusher. By the time Pace beats his guy he's yards behind the QB and BT isn't tasked with blitzing. I don't know the solution to this problem but Rex and Tanny know what they're doing and I anticipate some changes in our sack count for 2010.
I'd much rather have a beast pass rusher over BT.

augustiniak · 03-23-2010, 10:25 AM

since i think the pats will take odrick, who is also a nice fit for the jets i think jerry hughes would be a nice fit. i think he's more agile than kindle and would be great opposite pace.

Dirtstar · 03-23-2010, 10:31 AM

i don't know why everyone's jumping all over the OP. i don't know if BT is really the problem, but i think he has a valid point in that we need to improve our sack count.

sure, sacks might be an overrated statistic, but if you think Rex is happy with getting mediocre sack numbers despite blitzing a whole lot more than any other team in the league, you better think again. i understand that generating pressure and disrupting plays is the main purpose of the scheme, but we should really be getting to the QB more often.

RexRutha · 03-23-2010, 10:38 AM

[QUOTE=Johnny Drama;3534367]Terrible comparison.

Pace is the primary pass rusher, BT does a lot more of the dirty work.

Plus BT was a freaking STUD in the playoffs.[/QUOTE]

Intelligent people can disagree, and I fully disagree with this. He has underperformed for years, is absent most of the time, makes a play or two once in a while, and is a glaring weakness on D.

I can't stand his lack of whatever that intangible is that makes someone a "stud" (see Jim Leonhard) and I wish he would be gone.

Revi$_I$l@nd · 03-23-2010, 10:43 AM

[QUOTE=Dirtstar;3534574]i don't know why everyone's jumping all over the OP. i don't know if BT is really the problem, but i think he has a valid point in that we need to improve our sack count.

sure, sacks might be an overrated statistic, but if you think Rex is happy with getting mediocre sack numbers despite blitzing a whole lot more than any other team in the league, you better think again. i understand that generating pressure and disrupting plays is the main purpose of the scheme, but we should really be getting to the QB more often.[/QUOTE]

But the OP's main point is that BT IS the problem.

He's really not. We were sending 6 guys and still not getting to the QB.

Honestly, I believe our biggest issue on defense is speed. We need a safety or NB who can blitz off the edge and get to the QB since it's the only position that can generally come in untouched.

augustiniak · 03-23-2010, 10:46 AM

[QUOTE=Revi$_I$l@nd;3534594]But the OP's main point is that BT IS the problem.

He's really not. We were sending 6 guys and still not getting to the QB.

Honestly, I believe our biggest issue on defense is speed. We need a safety or NB who can blitz off the edge and get to the QB since it's the only position that can generally come in untouched.[/QUOTE]

when you send 6 guys and still can't get to the qb, it means your guys can't shed blocks. harris isn't the fastest guy, yet he can get sacks, b/c he can shed blocks. guys like gholston and thomas don't get sacks at the pro level b/c they can't shed blocks. this is why a guy like jerry hughes is a good fit for the defense.

southside · 03-23-2010, 10:49 AM

[QUOTE=augustiniak;3534542]the jets were tied for 13th in interceptions.

the jets were tied for 18th in sacks

the jets were tied for 15th in forced fumbles.

these are not elite stats. the jets can improve in these categories.[/QUOTE]

I agree we could get more big plays out of our defense. But the fact that we had such a great defense without the big plays, and now we've added big play potential... it can only get better. But to single out one player and say "here's the problem"... eh I don't believe that. That's my point.

BTW, I'm not a big time BT fan. I think we can upgrade the position, but I don't feel it's the main priority.

dbatesman · 03-23-2010, 10:53 AM

[QUOTE=New Jerzey Jet;3534410]I'm talking about other knowledgeable football fans like us[/QUOTE]

I'm at a loss for words.

Dirtstar · 03-23-2010, 10:55 AM

[QUOTE=dbatesman;3534609]I'm at a loss for words.[/QUOTE]

:D

Ven0m · 03-23-2010, 10:55 AM

I don't think anybody is saying BT is worthless, as pointed out, he's solid against the run and in coverage, but he plays a position that demands some pass rushing abilities and he simply doesn't get pressure on the QB consistently enough.

I don't see how there's any argument against that he shouldn't be an everydown player. An ideal situation would be having him play the early downs, get them into 3rd and long, and bringing in a pass rushing threat for 3rd downs. Be it a draft pick or someone like AT. At least for a year or two until the rookie takes over the job full-time.

03-23-2010, 02:08 AM	#21
New Jerzey Jet Veteran Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,011	[QUOTE=Dimitri_0515;3534411]Not saying that you're not knowledgable. Would I upgrade over BT if a better player came across? Absolutely. But we have other needs over him and he's been solid as a starter.[/QUOTE] The only other position in need an upgrade is FS IMO. Along with some DE depth. But if Earl Thomas doesn't drop, there's really no other FS worth taking in at 29. We could go DE in the 4th.

03-23-2010, 08:59 AM	#22
Sourceworx Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Long Island Posts: 13,431	[QUOTE=New Jerzey Jet;3534375]what comparison? I'm not really making a comparison, I'm just saying BT sucks lol [B]And Pace is a solid pass-rusher, but he's never had 10+ sacks. [/B]We need a guy that demands a double team if we truly want to be dominant. We shouldn't have to send 7 guys to get pressure. and BT had one sack in the playoffs, yeah what a stud :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] If Pace doesn't miss the first 4 games last year, he would have had over 10 sacks. I think we go after a D-Lineman with our first pick.

03-23-2010, 09:27 AM	#23
SONNY WERBLIN Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,360	[QUOTE=New Jerzey Jet;3534400]He didn't blitz because he's not a good pass-rusher. In a 3-4 Defense your OLB's are your primary pass-rushers. Rex had to compensate for BT's lack of pass-rushing ability by sending Harris and Scott more often.[/QUOTE] So, let me get this straight, Rex's D was so confusing to opposing QB's because the "primary pass rusher" (whatever the heck that means) comes from the OLB's. OMG!!!! What the heck are you talking about?? Rex's D is designed to create pressure through overload blitzes coming from anywhere and everywhere. There is no "primary pass rusher". Pace had 8 sacks in 12 games for a number of reasons. First, he is a gifted pass rusher. Second. he is the Left side OLB, which results in him lining up on the side of the O-line frequently not covered by a TE. Very few teams have 2 OLB who can register double digit sacks. BT is a solid, not spectacular player. He rarely makes mistakes and, unfortunately, is not a gifted pass rusher. If a better option comes along, great. But this is not a position of need for the Jets. Especially, when their starting DE's are too far on the wrong side of 30, and their All Pro NT is 31 coming off 2 injury shortened seasons. Want to improve the pass rush? Get a young stud DE who demands a double team, not an OLB who blitzes from time to time.

03-23-2010, 09:40 AM	#24
palmetto defender All League Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 4,687	Just to remind those who have forgotten: The Jets had the #1 pass defense in the NFL last year. They must have been doing something right up front as well as in the defensive backfield. Could they be better? Sure. EVERY team in the league could be better. The Jets could use a little tweaking on the DL. Ellis and Douglas are OLD. REAL OLD. Time for new blood at DE. I like Devito as a backup. Key player with a lot of heart. Does he have upside or is he already there? Bring in a DE at 29. No CB. The Jets have two #1s at CB. They have 4 safeties. Three of them have been starters. The Jets need an OLB but not at 29. Round 4.

03-23-2010, 09:48 AM	#25
One Eye RIP 2012 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: May 2006 Location: Manalapan, NJ Posts: 2,220	Fixed.... [QUOTE=palmetto defender;3534505]Just to remind those who have forgotten: The Jets had the #1 defense in the NFL last year. They don't NEED anything.[/QUOTE]

03-23-2010, 09:51 AM	#26
southside Forever Awesome All Pro Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 8,902	People need to realize that this stat isn't going to make one player shine more than the other in our defense. They spread the wealth as has been mentioned with pressure and pass rushing. It's like jailbreak up front on every play. That's hard to defense and that means that anyone of the players on the blitz has the same opportunity to get to the QB. David Harris put up 5.5, a bunch of non starter DBs put up 5 sacks between them. What people have to realize is very simple, our defense was BY FAR IN MOST EVERY CATEGORY the #1 statistical defense. They don't need to change anything. The pressure we put on QBs was staggering when they showed the percentage of completed plays in those situations. This team was dominant on defense, and we're going to get even better after losing a problem child and a hack at CB. The Jets will bring in another pass rusher I'm sure but don't forget about guys like Westerman. The Jets like him alot. They're developing him.

03-23-2010, 09:53 AM	#27
Toooon All League Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,700	[QUOTE=Johnny Drama;3534367]Terrible comparison. Pace is the primary pass rusher, BT does a lot more of the dirty work. Plus BT was a freaking STUD in the playoffs.[/QUOTE] The point is the same. Pace is hardly a dominant pass rusher. He's fine as a complementary guy, but we need to add ad least two legit rushers to this defense.

03-23-2010, 09:58 AM	#28
Beerfish Hall Of Fame Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 19,090	I totally agree that you need more sacks and or pressures from the olb position but Thomas was very very good in other areas. I would dearly like to get a pass rushing beats that teams have to game plan for that is for sure but Thomas certainly did not stink lat year.

03-23-2010, 10:11 AM	#29
PaPZ187 NO paper bag over my face...still GREEN and WHITE till I die! All League Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lawrence, MA Posts: 3,063	[QUOTE=Johnny Drama;3534401]We don't run a traditional 3/4. Rex moves and blitz's from everywhere. We had Jenkins lineup at Mlb on plays before he got hurt, was that because Rex thought he was faster sideline to sideline than D Harris? You can't get an all pro at every position Bt is a more than adequate starter.[/QUOTE] +1 Good Post BT is a very good player, our best cover LBer and plays the run very well, he's solid. No one has an All Pro at every position, I want them to draft a Pass Rusher at OLBer early as well but doesn't mean I wanna get rid of BT. Go back and watch the playoff games, made some big plays. Who you think forced that fumble on Coles on that 1st drive of the game when Cinncy was knocking on our door and about to get momentum rolling in their direction? That play was a HUGE momentum swing for us, he also got very good pressure in that game and had a sack, don't forget how he had the Hit of the Week in the SD game laying out one of the play makers. IMO I want another Pass Rusher too, but doesn't mean we need to dump BT, the guy is very under rated.

03-23-2010, 10:12 AM	#30
augustiniak All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 8,124	[QUOTE=southside;3534518]People need to realize that this stat isn't going to make one player shine more than the other in our defense. They spread the wealth as has been mentioned with pressure and pass rushing. It's like jailbreak up front on every play. That's hard to defense and that means that anyone of the players on the blitz has the same opportunity to get to the QB. David Harris put up 5.5, a bunch of non starter DBs put up 5 sacks between them. What people have to realize is very simple, our defense was BY FAR IN MOST EVERY CATEGORY the #1 statistical defense. They don't need to change anything. The pressure we put on QBs was staggering when they showed the percentage of completed plays in those situations. This team was dominant on defense, and we're going to get even better after losing a problem child and a hack at CB. The Jets will bring in another pass rusher I'm sure but don't forget about guys like Westerman. The Jets like him alot. They're developing him.[/QUOTE] the jets were tied for 13th in interceptions. the jets were tied for 18th in sacks the jets were tied for 15th in forced fumbles. these are not elite stats. the jets can improve in these categories.

03-23-2010, 10:20 AM	#31
Greaser what is and what should never be All Pro Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Florida Posts: 840	I agree with the basic premise of the OP in stating we need a good solid pass rusher. By the time Pace beats his guy he's yards behind the QB and BT isn't tasked with blitzing. I don't know the solution to this problem but Rex and Tanny know what they're doing and I anticipate some changes in our sack count for 2010. I'd much rather have a beast pass rusher over BT.

03-23-2010, 10:25 AM	#32
augustiniak All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 8,124	since i think the pats will take odrick, who is also a nice fit for the jets i think jerry hughes would be a nice fit. i think he's more agile than kindle and would be great opposite pace.

03-23-2010, 10:31 AM	#33
Dirtstar Snubbed a man just to watch him cry. Hall Of Fame Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 15,796	i don't know why everyone's jumping all over the OP. i don't know if BT is really the problem, but i think he has a valid point in that we need to improve our sack count. sure, sacks might be an overrated statistic, but if you think Rex is happy with getting mediocre sack numbers despite blitzing a whole lot more than any other team in the league, you better think again. i understand that generating pressure and disrupting plays is the main purpose of the scheme, but we should really be getting to the QB more often.

03-23-2010, 10:38 AM	#34
RexRutha Veteran Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 227	[QUOTE=Johnny Drama;3534367]Terrible comparison. Pace is the primary pass rusher, BT does a lot more of the dirty work. Plus BT was a freaking STUD in the playoffs.[/QUOTE] Intelligent people can disagree, and I fully disagree with this. He has underperformed for years, is absent most of the time, makes a play or two once in a while, and is a glaring weakness on D. I can't stand his lack of whatever that intangible is that makes someone a "stud" (see Jim Leonhard) and I wish he would be gone.

03-23-2010, 10:43 AM	#35
Revi$_I$l@nd is Cro-ing H.A.M...Whatever that means Banned Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,489	[QUOTE=Dirtstar;3534574]i don't know why everyone's jumping all over the OP. i don't know if BT is really the problem, but i think he has a valid point in that we need to improve our sack count. sure, sacks might be an overrated statistic, but if you think Rex is happy with getting mediocre sack numbers despite blitzing a whole lot more than any other team in the league, you better think again. i understand that generating pressure and disrupting plays is the main purpose of the scheme, but we should really be getting to the QB more often.[/QUOTE] But the OP's main point is that BT IS the problem. He's really not. We were sending 6 guys and still not getting to the QB. Honestly, I believe our biggest issue on defense is speed. We need a safety or NB who can blitz off the edge and get to the QB since it's the only position that can generally come in untouched.

03-23-2010, 10:46 AM	#36
augustiniak All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 8,124	[QUOTE=Revi$_I$l@nd;3534594]But the OP's main point is that BT IS the problem. He's really not. We were sending 6 guys and still not getting to the QB. Honestly, I believe our biggest issue on defense is speed. We need a safety or NB who can blitz off the edge and get to the QB since it's the only position that can generally come in untouched.[/QUOTE] when you send 6 guys and still can't get to the qb, it means your guys can't shed blocks. harris isn't the fastest guy, yet he can get sacks, b/c he can shed blocks. guys like gholston and thomas don't get sacks at the pro level b/c they can't shed blocks. this is why a guy like jerry hughes is a good fit for the defense.

03-23-2010, 10:49 AM	#37
southside Forever Awesome All Pro Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 8,902	[QUOTE=augustiniak;3534542]the jets were tied for 13th in interceptions. the jets were tied for 18th in sacks the jets were tied for 15th in forced fumbles. these are not elite stats. the jets can improve in these categories.[/QUOTE] I agree we could get more big plays out of our defense. But the fact that we had such a great defense without the big plays, and now we've added big play potential... it can only get better. But to single out one player and say "here's the problem"... eh I don't believe that. That's my point. BTW, I'm not a big time BT fan. I think we can upgrade the position, but I don't feel it's the main priority.

03-23-2010, 10:53 AM	#38
dbatesman Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Champaign, IL by way of Freehold, NJ Posts: 3,808	[QUOTE=New Jerzey Jet;3534410]I'm talking about other knowledgeable football fans like us[/QUOTE] I'm at a loss for words.

03-23-2010, 10:55 AM	#39
Dirtstar Snubbed a man just to watch him cry. Hall Of Fame Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 15,796	[QUOTE=dbatesman;3534609]I'm at a loss for words.[/QUOTE] :D

03-23-2010, 10:55 AM	#40
Ven0m a shutdown poster Hall Of Fame Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NY Posts: 18,349	I don't think anybody is saying BT is worthless, as pointed out, he's solid against the run and in coverage, but he plays a position that demands some pass rushing abilities and he simply doesn't get pressure on the QB consistently enough. I don't see how there's any argument against that he shouldn't be an everydown player. An ideal situation would be having him play the early downs, get them into 3rd and long, and bringing in a pass rushing threat for 3rd downs. Be it a draft pick or someone like AT. At least for a year or two until the rookie takes over the job full-time.