Woody Jonhson: "..a few tricks up our sleeve yet." - Page 3

dmitexxi · 03-24-2010, 01:01 PM

[QUOTE=SMC;3535891]As a life-long Yankee fan, in no way shape or form should we exalt George M. Steinbrenner as the paragon of championship ownership.

Yes, The Boss didn't accept mediocrity but he ruined any championship chance the team had in the 1980s and the ONLY reason there was a late 1990s dynasty was because The Boss was BANNED from baseball in the early 1990s which allowed Gene Michael to build a championship team.

Personally, I tolerate the image of The Boss today, but I despised him for a long time and cheered when he was banned. When he was allowed back into baseball he was a better owner, but still had his meddling ways.

Woody, right now, is a better owner than the pre-banned Steinbrenner.[/QUOTE]

let me start off my agreeing with you GS did do some unethical things like spying in Winfield which led to his BAN from baseball, but his passion and allocation of his resources (spent right or wrong) was for the better of his team and its fans. Right now Woody may have a SLIGHT edge but Woody opening up his mouth and saying "we have a few tricks up our sleeve" is similar to the way GS would open his mouth.

He set the foundation and took his 10Mil investment into a Billion dollar entity which is its own brand. To me sign off good leadership and growth as an owner for GS was when he have Cashman control. I dont expect to see Randy Johnson or Jason Giambi of the world in the bronx [b]as long he just approves a budget and lets his guys run the baseball operations.[/b]

Woody should follow that model.

dmitexxi · 03-24-2010, 01:03 PM

[QUOTE=ozu;3536013]Taken from an Eagles blog so you can ignore the highlighted Philly numbers.

There's really only 1 team that spends way more than the others and Woody has the Jets firmly in that 2nd tier of spending.

[IMG]http://www.jets134.com/images/5ycash.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Interesting thanks for sharing this oz.

SMC · 03-24-2010, 01:37 PM

[QUOTE=ozu;3536013]Taken from an Eagles blog so you can ignore the highlighted Philly numbers.

There's really only 1 team that spends way more than the others and Woody has the Jets firmly in that 2nd tier of spending.

[IMG]http://www.jets134.com/images/5ycash.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Cool graph.

It's interesting that ALL of the SB champions in the 2000s are in the top half in spending.

The Chargers and the Eagles are the only good team over that span in the bottom 16. The graph is pretty telling IMO that teams need to spend money in the NFL to be good.

jr17892 · 03-24-2010, 01:55 PM

[QUOTE=Green Lantern 80;3535704]Agreed! He just needs to follow through with the product on the field....[/QUOTE]

On a totally unrelated subject, I had forgotten about Bart Scott's definition of a Jet until I read the quote in GL's sig. Is it just me, or does that not summarize the Kerry Rhodes situation to perfection. If anyone wants to know why he's gone just re-read the quote.

Vinny Patrollie · 03-24-2010, 01:58 PM

[QUOTE=SMC;3536287]Cool graph.

It's interesting that ALL of the SB champions in the 2000s are in the top half in spending.

The Chargers and the Eagles are the only good team over that span in the bottom 16. The graph is pretty telling IMO that teams need to spend money in the NFL to be good.[/QUOTE]

What is also telling is that teams don't simply become good just by the mere fact of spending money. (ie: Dallas, Seattle, Washington, and Oakland.)

ozu · 03-24-2010, 02:20 PM

[QUOTE=Vinny Patrollie;3536317]What is also telling is that teams don't simply become good just by the mere fact of spending money. (ie: Dallas, Seattle, Washington, and Oakland.)[/QUOTE]Well sure. Just like baseball, the higher payrolls don't guarantee you a championship, but they sure as hell improve your odds for one.

Gastineau99 · 03-24-2010, 03:23 PM

[QUOTE=Boynton Beach Jets;3535517]My problem is is Woody's determination is it the incentive of selling PSL's. In 5 years will he be spending or will he sit on the PSL money. Three years ago many said Woody was cheap. When PSL's were coming into focus Woody starts spending bringing in Brett Favre and the rest is history.[/QUOTE]

Woody has always used the full cap and has always been willing to go out and get bigtime players through free agency.

There is a cap floor in the NFL, so unless that isn't brought back, there is no way to "sit on PSL money." Regardless, Woody is committed to winning and I doubt he would ever get cheap.

Jungle Shift Jet · 03-24-2010, 03:30 PM

Good graph but it doesnt show trends or exactly why teams w/ shared
revenues do or dont spend

[URL]http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2010-03-15-team-expenditures_N.htm#table[/URL]

(too big to cut n paste)

Apache 51 · 03-24-2010, 03:37 PM

[QUOTE=SMC;3536287]Cool graph.

It's interesting that ALL of the SB champions in the 2000s are in the top half in spending.

The Chargers and the Eagles are the only good team over that span in the bottom 16. The graph is pretty telling IMO that teams need to spend money in the NFL to be good.[/QUOTE]

It's not the amount of spending, it's what you spend it on. Shy of a SB, no one has done better than the Eagles.

shevys · 03-24-2010, 03:52 PM

[QUOTE=Mainejet;3535474]

He hired Herm because he believed (as many other people did including myself), that he would be a truly GREAT coach. Unfortunately, it didn't work out, but I still do not blame him for trying to assemble the best coaching staff.
[/QUOTE]

That's not quite the way I remember it. I think Vermin Edwards was a pressure hire by the league to get a minority in a head coaching position. Who better than a new owner to exert pressure on? I don't think anyone (in their right mind, anyway) could conceive Vermin would be anything other than a decent head coach at best. He took a talented roster and ruined the team in a matter of four years. No coordinating experience, no head coaching experience, no talent evaluation experience. Why on earth would anyone expect him to be a great head coach? :confused:

FijiJet · 03-24-2010, 03:57 PM

[QUOTE=frankiepapa;3535797]I think once Woody gets the winning feeling (hopefully via a Superbowl) I have to believe it becomes additcting. I can bet if he wins one he will want another and another and will spend. This "venture" of his has to be operating on its own. I don't think he is hurting no matter how many J&J products he sells or doesn't sell.[/QUOTE]

Yes, success breeds success. Already his well selected investments (coach. key players, new training facilities) are paying dividends with the vast improvements in performance and also respect from observers. He's a smart guy, that point will be evident to him. His spending pattern (insofar as owner) has shown that he is willing to shell out the big $$ but does so prudently and sensibly. Rather have him than a flashy high roller like Snyder who likes style over substance apparently, and seemingly has no cohesive strategy for his team.

I also think that Woody will continue financing the team's operations at a sufficiently high level once winning becomes consistent and ingrained in the team. Am positive this will happen. We have all the pieces in place and will reinforce through the draft.

Ruby2 · 03-24-2010, 04:11 PM

[QUOTE=shevys;3536473]That's not quite the way I remember it. I think Vermin Edwards was a pressure hire by the league to get a minority in a head coaching position. Who better than a new owner to exert pressure on? I don't think anyone (in their right mind, anyway) could conceive Vermin would be anything other than a decent head coach at best. He took a talented roster and ruined the team in a matter of four years. No coordinating experience, no head coaching experience, no talent evaluation experience. Why on earth would anyone expect him to be a great head coach? :confused:[/QUOTE]

+1

At least he ruined KC as well.

Piper · 03-24-2010, 05:10 PM

Woody's a silver spoon clown.

Got pantsed by the powers that be by being talked into politically correct Herm and it never stopped.

As someone else said, shut up and sign the checks. And please stop whining about the coin flip. You deserved it once you went crawling to the giants to share their stadium.

FijiJet · 03-24-2010, 05:16 PM

[QUOTE=shevys;3536473]That's not quite the way I remember it. I think Vermin Edwards was a pressure hire by the league to get a minority in a head coaching position. Who better than a new owner to exert pressure on? I don't think anyone (in their right mind, anyway) could conceive Vermin would be anything other than a decent head coach at best. He took a talented roster and ruined the team in a matter of four years. No coordinating experience, no head coaching experience, no talent evaluation experience. Why on earth would anyone expect him to be a great head coach? :confused:[/QUOTE]

Thank heavens he's gone, those seem like such dark days now. There's no comparison between him and Rex. As a motivator he has his value but as a head coach, [U]no bloody way [/U]

PaPZ187 · 03-24-2010, 07:42 PM

[QUOTE=Mainejet;3535487]What I read and heard to ESPN was that they had preliminary talks over the phone. They were going to set up interview times when Bill just said, "Listen, if you want me, here's what's going to need to happen".

That is the point where I believe it ended. Remember, one day on Espn it said that the Jets would move "heaven and earth" to get Cowher in NY. Then, the very day afterward espn reported that the flirtation was over....[/QUOTE]

Hey that's a very good point Maine Jet.

When Cowher was looking like a real possibility the rumors came out that he wanted his own guys in the FO, right then and their I thought to myself "Say No to Cowher, Mikey T has done a very good job and deserves to stay with us regardless of how great of a HC Cowher is" and Woody stuck with Mr T and eventually hired Rex and it couldn't of turned out any better so far.

Woody Johnson has done the best he can so far for the NY Jets and the fans IMO and deserves the recognition as well as his GM Mr T! We haven't had this good of an FO and Coaching Staff since Parcells tenure with the Jets.

ljr@work · 03-25-2010, 07:35 AM

... without herm & mangini there is no rex ryan ...

... without favre there is no sanchez ...

... we are now in reap the rewards time boys ...

:rockon:

l_j_r

BleedGreen314 · 03-25-2010, 11:27 AM

[QUOTE=SAR I;3535749]The only really scary thought is this:

Everything aggressive that Woody Johnson has done came about because of the new stadium. Dumping Edwards, installing youngster Mangini, promoting youngster Tannenbaum, pursuing McFadden, cutting Pennington, wooing Favre, dumping Mangini, hiring Ryan, signing Scott, drafting Sanchez, drafting Greene, signing Braylon, signing Tomlinson.......

......all of it, because of the new stadium. All of it, to create a 'buzz', to get back pages, to sell PSL's.

Throughout Jets history, our greatest successes came about because of a scared owner throwing money to solve a problem. Werblin outbid the NFL and had to have Namath and Eubank. Hess fought the Patriots and got Parcells and Martin. Woody wheeled and dealed beyond measure.

The question is, will Woody learn from these actions and keep being aggressive? Or, with the new stadium open and earning money, will he dial it back down and drag us to mediocrity?

SAR I[/QUOTE]

I agree with you, the timing is quite interesting. However, money talks, it's incentivizing, people think with their wallets. We use it ourselves to motivate people in our lives or to motivate people we employ to work harder. We put in the extra effort to get that bonus, however it applies to us, we are all like this. So, maybe this is true, but it's not necessarily wrong that it's how it happened. He is running a business. He'll find ways to profit and cut costs when he can, I only hope that at some point after the franchise gets to the level it needs to be, we as fans see some of these savings. I hold out judgement and will wait to see if cost savings ever come our way. But, Great Job so Far Woody!

kcb160 · 03-25-2010, 11:57 AM

[QUOTE=jr17892;3536314]On a totally unrelated subject, I had forgotten about Bart Scott's definition of a Jet until I read the quote in GL's sig. Is it just me, or does that not summarize the Kerry Rhodes situation to perfection. If anyone wants to know why he's gone just re-read the quote.[/QUOTE]

While that definition may explain why Rhodes is no longer here the Cromartie trade destroys Bart's definition of a Jet. Cromartie may be a talented corner, but Greene exposed him as a soft player in run support D. So much for Bart's definition.

03-24-2010, 01:01 PM	#41
dmitexxi RIP JF XXI Forever! Veteran Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Long Island Posts: 2,029	[QUOTE=SMC;3535891]As a life-long Yankee fan, in no way shape or form should we exalt George M. Steinbrenner as the paragon of championship ownership. Yes, The Boss didn't accept mediocrity but he ruined any championship chance the team had in the 1980s and the ONLY reason there was a late 1990s dynasty was because The Boss was BANNED from baseball in the early 1990s which allowed Gene Michael to build a championship team. Personally, I tolerate the image of The Boss today, but I despised him for a long time and cheered when he was banned. When he was allowed back into baseball he was a better owner, but still had his meddling ways. Woody, right now, is a better owner than the pre-banned Steinbrenner.[/QUOTE] let me start off my agreeing with you GS did do some unethical things like spying in Winfield which led to his BAN from baseball, but his passion and allocation of his resources (spent right or wrong) was for the better of his team and its fans. Right now Woody may have a SLIGHT edge but Woody opening up his mouth and saying "we have a few tricks up our sleeve" is similar to the way GS would open his mouth. He set the foundation and took his 10Mil investment into a Billion dollar entity which is its own brand. To me sign off good leadership and growth as an owner for GS was when he have Cashman control. I dont expect to see Randy Johnson or Jason Giambi of the world in the bronx [b]as long he just approves a budget and lets his guys run the baseball operations.[/b] Woody should follow that model.

03-24-2010, 01:03 PM	#42
dmitexxi RIP JF XXI Forever! Veteran Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Long Island Posts: 2,029	[QUOTE=ozu;3536013]Taken from an Eagles blog so you can ignore the highlighted Philly numbers. There's really only 1 team that spends way more than the others and Woody has the Jets firmly in that 2nd tier of spending. [IMG]http://www.jets134.com/images/5ycash.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE] Interesting thanks for sharing this oz.

03-24-2010, 01:37 PM	#43
SMC Day-to-day Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 22,032	[QUOTE=ozu;3536013]Taken from an Eagles blog so you can ignore the highlighted Philly numbers. There's really only 1 team that spends way more than the others and Woody has the Jets firmly in that 2nd tier of spending. [IMG]http://www.jets134.com/images/5ycash.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE] Cool graph. It's interesting that ALL of the SB champions in the 2000s are in the top half in spending. The Chargers and the Eagles are the only good team over that span in the bottom 16. The graph is pretty telling IMO that teams need to spend money in the NFL to be good.

03-24-2010, 01:55 PM	#44
jr17892 tired of the hype. Let's just f'n play already. All League Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 850	[QUOTE=Green Lantern 80;3535704]Agreed! He just needs to follow through with the product on the field....[/QUOTE] On a totally unrelated subject, I had forgotten about Bart Scott's definition of a Jet until I read the quote in GL's sig. Is it just me, or does that not summarize the Kerry Rhodes situation to perfection. If anyone wants to know why he's gone just re-read the quote.

03-24-2010, 01:58 PM	#45
Vinny Patrollie wicked smaht and onto your tricks Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,894	[QUOTE=SMC;3536287]Cool graph. It's interesting that ALL of the SB champions in the 2000s are in the top half in spending. The Chargers and the Eagles are the only good team over that span in the bottom 16. The graph is pretty telling IMO that teams need to spend money in the NFL to be good.[/QUOTE] What is also telling is that teams don't simply become good just by the mere fact of spending money. (ie: Dallas, Seattle, Washington, and Oakland.)

03-24-2010, 02:20 PM	#46
ozu in Section 135, Row 28. All League Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Hoboken Posts: 3,922	[QUOTE=Vinny Patrollie;3536317]What is also telling is that teams don't simply become good just by the mere fact of spending money. (ie: Dallas, Seattle, Washington, and Oakland.)[/QUOTE]Well sure. Just like baseball, the higher payrolls don't guarantee you a championship, but they sure as hell improve your odds for one.

03-24-2010, 03:23 PM	#47
Gastineau99 Section 135 All Pro Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,345	[QUOTE=Boynton Beach Jets;3535517]My problem is is Woody's determination is it the incentive of selling PSL's. In 5 years will he be spending or will he sit on the PSL money. Three years ago many said Woody was cheap. When PSL's were coming into focus Woody starts spending bringing in Brett Favre and the rest is history.[/QUOTE] Woody has always used the full cap and has always been willing to go out and get bigtime players through free agency. There is a cap floor in the NFL, so unless that isn't brought back, there is no way to "sit on PSL money." Regardless, Woody is committed to winning and I doubt he would ever get cheap.

03-24-2010, 03:30 PM	#48
Jungle Shift Jet Occasionally stoops to uploading hotties pix to boost his postcount All Pro Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alive with a superior intellect in an erudite world of fine tastes that you will never, EVER acquire Posts: 5,043	Good graph but it doesnt show trends or exactly why teams w/ shared revenues do or dont spend [URL]http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2010-03-15-team-expenditures_N.htm#table[/URL] (too big to cut n paste)

03-24-2010, 03:37 PM	#49
Apache 51 Let's Kill them all......... Hall Of Fame Join Date: May 2009 Location: In Morris Co.,N.J.,at the right end of a Browning 12 gauge Posts: 12,648	[QUOTE=SMC;3536287]Cool graph. It's interesting that ALL of the SB champions in the 2000s are in the top half in spending. The Chargers and the Eagles are the only good team over that span in the bottom 16. The graph is pretty telling IMO that teams need to spend money in the NFL to be good.[/QUOTE] It's not the amount of spending, it's what you spend it on. Shy of a SB, no one has done better than the Eagles.

03-24-2010, 03:52 PM	#50
shevys Hmmm Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Tucson Posts: 1,798	[QUOTE=Mainejet;3535474] He hired Herm because he believed (as many other people did including myself), that he would be a truly GREAT coach. Unfortunately, it didn't work out, but I still do not blame him for trying to assemble the best coaching staff. [/QUOTE] That's not quite the way I remember it. I think Vermin Edwards was a pressure hire by the league to get a minority in a head coaching position. Who better than a new owner to exert pressure on? I don't think anyone (in their right mind, anyway) could conceive Vermin would be anything other than a decent head coach at best. He took a talented roster and ruined the team in a matter of four years. No coordinating experience, no head coaching experience, no talent evaluation experience. Why on earth would anyone expect him to be a great head coach? :confused:

03-24-2010, 03:57 PM	#51
FijiJet waiting for our pass rush thunderbolt All League Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,439	[QUOTE=frankiepapa;3535797]I think once Woody gets the winning feeling (hopefully via a Superbowl) I have to believe it becomes additcting. I can bet if he wins one he will want another and another and will spend. This "venture" of his has to be operating on its own. I don't think he is hurting no matter how many J&J products he sells or doesn't sell.[/QUOTE] Yes, success breeds success. Already his well selected investments (coach. key players, new training facilities) are paying dividends with the vast improvements in performance and also respect from observers. He's a smart guy, that point will be evident to him. His spending pattern (insofar as owner) has shown that he is willing to shell out the big $$ but does so prudently and sensibly. Rather have him than a flashy high roller like Snyder who likes style over substance apparently, and seemingly has no cohesive strategy for his team. I also think that Woody will continue financing the team's operations at a sufficiently high level once winning becomes consistent and ingrained in the team. Am positive this will happen. We have all the pieces in place and will reinforce through the draft.

03-24-2010, 04:11 PM	#52
Ruby2 Patron and Grapefruit Juice Bitchess!!! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Jerseystrong Posts: 17,034	[QUOTE=shevys;3536473]That's not quite the way I remember it. I think Vermin Edwards was a pressure hire by the league to get a minority in a head coaching position. Who better than a new owner to exert pressure on? I don't think anyone (in their right mind, anyway) could conceive Vermin would be anything other than a decent head coach at best. He took a talented roster and ruined the team in a matter of four years. No coordinating experience, no head coaching experience, no talent evaluation experience. Why on earth would anyone expect him to be a great head coach? :confused:[/QUOTE] +1 At least he ruined KC as well.

03-24-2010, 05:10 PM	#53
Piper Hall Of Fame Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: L.I. NY (where the Jets used to be from) Posts: 13,197	Woody's a silver spoon clown. Got pantsed by the powers that be by being talked into politically correct Herm and it never stopped. As someone else said, shut up and sign the checks. And please stop whining about the coin flip. You deserved it once you went crawling to the giants to share their stadium.

03-24-2010, 05:16 PM	#54
FijiJet waiting for our pass rush thunderbolt All League Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,439	[QUOTE=shevys;3536473]That's not quite the way I remember it. I think Vermin Edwards was a pressure hire by the league to get a minority in a head coaching position. Who better than a new owner to exert pressure on? I don't think anyone (in their right mind, anyway) could conceive Vermin would be anything other than a decent head coach at best. He took a talented roster and ruined the team in a matter of four years. No coordinating experience, no head coaching experience, no talent evaluation experience. Why on earth would anyone expect him to be a great head coach? :confused:[/QUOTE] Thank heavens he's gone, those seem like such dark days now. There's no comparison between him and Rex. As a motivator he has his value but as a head coach, [U]no bloody way [/U]

03-24-2010, 07:42 PM	#55
PaPZ187 NO paper bag over my face...still GREEN and WHITE till I die! All League Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lawrence, MA Posts: 3,063	[QUOTE=Mainejet;3535487]What I read and heard to ESPN was that they had preliminary talks over the phone. They were going to set up interview times when Bill just said, "Listen, if you want me, here's what's going to need to happen". That is the point where I believe it ended. Remember, one day on Espn it said that the Jets would move "heaven and earth" to get Cowher in NY. Then, the very day afterward espn reported that the flirtation was over....[/QUOTE] Hey that's a very good point Maine Jet. When Cowher was looking like a real possibility the rumors came out that he wanted his own guys in the FO, right then and their I thought to myself "Say No to Cowher, Mikey T has done a very good job and deserves to stay with us regardless of how great of a HC Cowher is" and Woody stuck with Mr T and eventually hired Rex and it couldn't of turned out any better so far. Woody Johnson has done the best he can so far for the NY Jets and the fans IMO and deserves the recognition as well as his GM Mr T! We haven't had this good of an FO and Coaching Staff since Parcells tenure with the Jets.

03-25-2010, 07:35 AM	#56
ljr@work All Pro Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 1,815	... without herm & mangini there is no rex ryan ... ... without favre there is no sanchez ... ... we are now in reap the rewards time boys ... :rockon: l_j_r

03-25-2010, 11:27 AM	#57
BleedGreen314 aka "Cut Sanchez" on Waze Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 2,011	[QUOTE=SAR I;3535749]The only really scary thought is this: Everything aggressive that Woody Johnson has done came about because of the new stadium. Dumping Edwards, installing youngster Mangini, promoting youngster Tannenbaum, pursuing McFadden, cutting Pennington, wooing Favre, dumping Mangini, hiring Ryan, signing Scott, drafting Sanchez, drafting Greene, signing Braylon, signing Tomlinson....... ......all of it, because of the new stadium. All of it, to create a 'buzz', to get back pages, to sell PSL's. Throughout Jets history, our greatest successes came about because of a scared owner throwing money to solve a problem. Werblin outbid the NFL and had to have Namath and Eubank. Hess fought the Patriots and got Parcells and Martin. Woody wheeled and dealed beyond measure. The question is, will Woody learn from these actions and keep being aggressive? Or, with the new stadium open and earning money, will he dial it back down and drag us to mediocrity? SAR I[/QUOTE] I agree with you, the timing is quite interesting. However, money talks, it's incentivizing, people think with their wallets. We use it ourselves to motivate people in our lives or to motivate people we employ to work harder. We put in the extra effort to get that bonus, however it applies to us, we are all like this. So, maybe this is true, but it's not necessarily wrong that it's how it happened. He is running a business. He'll find ways to profit and cut costs when he can, I only hope that at some point after the franchise gets to the level it needs to be, we as fans see some of these savings. I hold out judgement and will wait to see if cost savings ever come our way. But, Great Job so Far Woody!

03-25-2010, 11:57 AM	#58
kcb160 Practice Squad Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 464	[QUOTE=jr17892;3536314]On a totally unrelated subject, I had forgotten about Bart Scott's definition of a Jet until I read the quote in GL's sig. Is it just me, or does that not summarize the Kerry Rhodes situation to perfection. If anyone wants to know why he's gone just re-read the quote.[/QUOTE] While that definition may explain why Rhodes is no longer here the Cromartie trade destroys Bart's definition of a Jet. Cromartie may be a talented corner, but Greene exposed him as a soft player in run support D. So much for Bart's definition.