The more film I watch the more I love #55

[SenorGato]

Originally Posted by bitonti

good news from the twitter

fyifootballplay #MIA #Dolphins beat writer Armando Salguero sees "little to no chance" that the team would #draft #Michigan DE Brandon Graham at #12. #NFL

if he's not a top 15 pick... and he's not really a fit for 4-3... how far would the Jets have to trade up?

if they get lucky they dont trade up at all

They won't have to trade up. Maybe if he was 6'4, but not at 6'2 with short arms. He'll have to figure out a way to work his game at the NFL level, and that probably will take time.

[woodside]

Originally Posted by Monsterxman

In what regard?

Gholston is bigger, faster, stronger and a more dominate pass rusher in college.

The only thing I can see going against Gholston is the fact that he sucks.

Nope. Not at all. Gholston was a one trick pony who bull rushed aopponents in college nad beat them with his strength but had little in the way of pash rushing moves. Graham is a much more polished pass rusher who shows a variety of moves to get to the qb and has far better closing speed. Perhaps he does not have as great straight line speed as Gholston in the 40 but he plays with far superior balance and that is why he looks much faster on tape. As for stats check out how many tackles for loss this kid has and how many tackles he has vs. Gholston. Last but not least the term "high motor" is something that has never been a term used to describe Gholston at any level.

[K-Ro 25]

If he didn't go berserk in the Senior Bowl, we would actually have a viable shot at him. Too bad.... he's going to be a player for sure.

[SenorGato]

Originally Posted by woodside

Nope. Not at all. Gholston was a one trick pony who bull rushed aopponents in college nad beat them with his strength but had little in the way of pash rushing moves. Graham is a much more polished pass rusher who shows a variety of moves to get to the qb and has far better closing speed. Perhaps he does not have as great straight line speed as Gholston in the 40 but he plays with far superior balance and that is why he looks much faster on tape. As for stats check out how many tackles for loss this kid has and how many tackles he has vs. Gholston. Last but not least the term "high motor" is something that has never been a term used to describe Gholston at any level.

All this is much easier to say due to Gholston's first 2 years in the league. As a prospect, Gholston is pretty close to blowing Graham out of the water.

All most of this board has seen of Graham is highlights...all most of this board knows about Gholston is that he sucked his first two years as a pro...that's probably going to create a gap in perceptions. Gholston was a beast at OSU.

[bitonti]

not that you pay a defensive end to stop the run but Gholston can stop the run... he did when they started the year 3-1... but NFL OCs will try to run at graham... while he's got success defending it, his height will make him a target... graham could get 10+ sacks and also be a liability against the run.

[woodside]

Originally Posted by SenorGato

All this is much easier to say due to Gholston's first 2 years in the league. As a prospect, Gholston is pretty close to blowing Graham out of the water.

All most of this board has seen of Graham is highlights...all most of this board knows about Gholston is that he sucked his first two years as a pro...that's probably going to create a gap in perceptions. Gholston was a beast at OSU.

Gato, I disagree. I dont think that Gholston as prospect blows Graham away as a prospect. It was clear as night and day to anyone watchin him coming out of college that he was a boom or bust pick. Boom beacuse of his combine measurements,bust because you could see on film that he could not close to the qb the way that an elite pass rushers do ala john Abraham, demarcus Ware, played off balance etc.. the guy also had something crazy like only 13 tackles all season. His stats other than sacks absolutely sucked. that said your boy Mangini was in love with him. mike T had nothing to do with it

As for teams wanting to run at graham, the guy had more tackles for losses than any other player in college football to my knowledge

[SenorGato]

Boom beacuse of his combine measurements,bust because you could see on film that he could not close to the qb the way that an elite pass rushers do ala john Abraham, demarcus Ware, played off balance etc..

1 - How much Gholston in college did you actually watch?

2 - You don't break a school like OSU's sack record in less starts than sacks by sucking at football and having good workout numbers.

3 - Gholston was 2nd team All Big Ten (chosen by coaches and media) in '06...his first year as a starter...while posting the most tackles out of OSU's DL (49)...the 2nd most sacks...and 15 TFL...he also recorded an INT.

5 - In his 2nd year as a starter he set the sack record, went All Big 10, went All American, won best Big 10 DL, and was on the watch list for the Bednarik and Hendricks Awards...

6 - Shaun Crable also had a ton of production for Michigan...including TFL. Where's he been?

The idea that Gholston was some f*ckin nobody is a lame one that only showed up once he "busted" and the coach who insisted we grab him and only him left.

[woodside]

Originally Posted by SenorGato

1 - How much Gholston in college did you actually watch?

2 - You don't break a school like OSU's sack record in less starts than sacks by sucking at football and having good workout numbers.

3 - Gholston was 2nd team All Big Ten (chosen by coaches and media) in '06...his first year as a starter...while posting the most tackles out of OSU's DL (49)...the 2nd most sacks...and 15 TFL...he also recorded an INT.

5 - In his 2nd year as a starter he set the sack record, went All Big 10, went All American, won best Big 10 DL, and was on the watch list for the Bednarik and Hendricks Awards...

6 - Shaun Crable also had a ton of production for Michigan...including TFL. Where's he been?

The idea that Gholston was some f*ckin nobody is a lame one that only showed up once he "busted" and the coach who insisted we grab him and only him left.

If that is the case, then why not only me but guys like mayock say buyer beware when Gholston was coming out of OSU

[Kentucky Jet]

Originally Posted by bitonti

believe it or not there are scenarios where Brandon Graham is there at 29

and it's not just in my dreams or my email ok


i was in a 32 team inter site mock draft and took Graham at 29 ill put it up in a few mins, it was all done via email and started March 2, 2010 ended March 13.




***

first off he doesn't have ideal 4-3 skillset

so that eliminates more than half the teams right off the bat.

(If Polian were in the top 20 it would change things... but most of these guys want em tall and long, Graham is neither of those things. most 4-3 defense would have legit first round options... Morgan/JPP and maybe even Griffen or Dunlap before Graham.)

as for the other 3-4 teams that's tough but it can happen.
the 3-4 defense could consider Hughes or Kindle before Graham. they could go after offensive tackles or skill positions.

He's a top 10 on my personal board but that's not how it is on most people's boards, despite his boss production, excellent senior bowl and pretty decent combine. this is a really deep year it's not unthinkable he slips...

In your opinion who is the better pass rusher: Graham or Hughes? I like em both but I am leaning to Hughes for us. What say you, bit?

[bitonti]

Originally Posted by Kentucky Jet

In your opinion who is the better pass rusher: Graham or Hughes? I like em both but I am leaning to Hughes for us. What say you, bit?

graham has better moves... hughes might be a little faster and a good edge guy... i like em both... i like graham a little better... would be very happy with either.

[VincenzoTestaverde]

Originally Posted by SenorGato

1 - How much Gholston in college did you actually watch?

2 - You don't break a school like OSU's sack record in less starts than sacks by sucking at football and having good workout numbers.

3 - Gholston was 2nd team All Big Ten (chosen by coaches and media) in '06...his first year as a starter...while posting the most tackles out of OSU's DL (49)...the 2nd most sacks...and 15 TFL...he also recorded an INT.

5 - In his 2nd year as a starter he set the sack record, went All Big 10, went All American, won best Big 10 DL, and was on the watch list for the Bednarik and Hendricks Awards...

6 - Shaun Crable also had a ton of production for Michigan...including TFL. Where's he been?

The idea that Gholston was some f*ckin nobody is a lame one that only showed up once he "busted" and the coach who insisted we grab him and only him left.

Gholston was a very good college player who sh*t on Jake Long and rocked the combine. It's very easy to say now "Gholston sucks Jets shoulda nevah drafted him" but the fact is at the time it made sense for Tany especially with Ryan and McFadden off the boards and Flacco would have been a crazy reach.

I blame Mangina and Sutton in part for ruining Gholston in his first season. Rex was able to salvage Pouha and Eric Smith but Gholston was too far gone and comfortable sitting on a pile of cash. Guy has talent but I doubt he will ever be anything. Oh well.

[SenorGato]

Originally Posted by VincenzoTestaverde

Gholston was a very good college player who sh*t on Jake Long and rocked the combine. It's very easy to say now "Gholston sucks Jets shoulda nevah drafted him" but the fact is at the time it made sense for Tany especially with Ryan and McFadden off the boards and Flacco would have been a crazy reach.

I blame Mangina and Sutton in part for ruining Gholston in his first season. Rex was able to salvage Pouha and Eric Smith but Gholston was too far gone and comfortable sitting on a pile of cash. Guy has talent but I doubt he will ever be anything. Oh well.

What'd they even do? Not treat him Rexgressively enough? I'm guessing you're going to throw out the "he should have rushed with his hand in the ground" argument I keep seeing. I'll point out that 1. he did get to do that 2. if it was that easy then the latest greatest coach ever would have done it with results and 3. he's still got to learn to be an OLB in this D.

Let the guy play and figure out where he is....iunno why he can't be anything ever again as if at 24 with 2 seasons under his belt his best days are behind him. I really can't understand the mentality on Gholston...it's not like the team handed him a starting job after he was drafted and he proceeded to play in and not get a sack in every game.

W/e...if we were to cut him don't be shocked to see the Pats, Steelers, Chargers, KC, Arizona, or some other 3-4 team jump on him and let him succeed. Certainly wouldn't shock me.

[bitonti]

Originally Posted by VincenzoTestaverde

I blame Mangina and Sutton in part for ruining Gholston in his first season. Rex was able to salvage Pouha and Eric Smith but Gholston was too far gone and comfortable sitting on a pile of cash. Guy has talent but I doubt he will ever be anything. Oh well.

i dont buy into this 'ruin' line of thought as it pertains to coaches

they said Cotch was 'ruined' by Herm and then Mangini 'rescued' his career

the truth is he was a young rookie with alot to learn.. he learned it and he got better. the same can be said of Pouha and Eric Smith

Gholston is 23, if he turns it around this year it will be a normal progression. This is what players do... guys like revis who show up day 1 and dominate as rookies are the exceptions to the rule. Most players take time to develop... to make the jump between college and pros.

[Jack Straw]

Originally Posted by bitonti

i dont buy into this 'ruin' line of thought as it pertains to coaches

they said Cotch was 'ruined' by Herm and then Mangini 'rescued' his career

the truth is he was a young rookie with alot to learn.. he learned it and he got better. the same can be said of Pouha and Eric Smith

Gholston is 23, if he turns it around this year it will be a normal progression. This is what players do... guys like revis who show up day 1 and dominate as rookies are the exceptions to the rule. Most players take time to develop... to make the jump between college and pros.

I agree with your logic -- Gholston is 23 years old and has a lot of time to get better and turn his career around. But the major problem is that he hasn't even shown a flash of ability when he's been in action, and looks completely lost rushing the passer. He has no fluidity in his hips -- a characteristic that won't get better with age.

"Playing the run" OK is fine if you're an undrafted free agent, but not when you're a top 6 pick.

[SenorGato]

Terrell Suggs lacked "fluidity in his hips" at one point...so did Shawne Merriman...both found ways to work around that. Brandon Graham isn't exactly fluid...neither is Woodley...

Athleticism is the very, very least of Gholston's problems....

[Jack Straw]

Originally Posted by SenorGato

Terrell Suggs lacked "fluidity in his hips" at one point...so did Shawne Merriman...both found ways to work around that. Brandon Graham isn't exactly fluid...neither is Woodley...

Athleticism is the very, very least of Gholston's problems....

Terrell Suggs is a pretty fluid athlete -- not a sprinter but definitely moves around well and carries his weight well. Same thing goes for Merriman. Those guys don't run around like inflated meat-heads. Gholston does.

[bitonti]

interesting Brandon Graham link

http://www.maizenbrew.com/2010/3/30/...ok-at-michigan

also details how he does against top competition... while Hughes racked up sacks against no names