everson griffen usc De

[bitonti]

this guy had a tremendous combine, and a great pro day... from a big school... and looks like he could be an impact pass rusher... some character concerns when he beat someone up...

but just looking at the way he attacks the drills... and gets all amped up... this looks like a rex ryan player to me... high motor, big hustle... and pretty decent chance he's there at 29... what are people's thoughts?



http://www.gvsmedia.com/2/video/football/xcsgm6.html

[JonEJet]

Sold

[Beerfish]

Someone on NFL network, Casserly I think seemed to think he was really sloted as a 4-3 DE. A pass rusher that would not do well as a 3-4 OLB as opposed to some other prospects.

[bitonti]

Originally Posted by Green Jets & Ham

Beware of workout warriors who look a million times better in practice than they do in the actual games

I'm always suspecious of prospective pass rushers who were NOT prolific pass rushers in college (i.e. Griffen & Sapp)

Its like I keep hearing Sapp is a terror off the edge, but if that is true, then why did he only have 7.5 sacks in the past two years combined

agree about sapp

but griffen had 17 career sacks in 3 years... not bad at all in the pac 10

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/playerDetai...=657&player=93

for whatever reason people are overlooking... not sure why...

[SenorGato]

Griffen can go as high as 8 to the Raiders...but he's going in the top 20. He's the most athletic of the good DEs (so I'm not including JPP lol).

[Beerfish]

Originally Posted by SenorGato

Griffen can go as high as 8 to the Raiders...but he's going in the top 20. He's the most athletic of the good DEs (so I'm not including JPP lol).

Amazing how 25 players are going to be in the top 20 this year.

Whenever I see 'he won't be there for the Jets or he will be a top 20 pick' I need to see who are going before players and who are going after the player in question.

[jetsfaneh]

No a Griffen fan myself. I see him as more of a 4-3 end. I know he has all the tools to play in the 3-4 but he comes off as rather stiff. Great in workouts but his play on the field does not scream 3-4 OLB to me. A good grab for a 4-3 team at the top of the 2nd round IMO.

[bitonti]

Originally Posted by Green Jets & Ham

Because that's not a lot for an edge rusher you are taking in the first round

Griffen has 12 sacks over the past two years, while Hughes has 26.5 and Graham has more than 20 as well

IMO that's why the latter two are 1st RD Picks while Griffen & Sapp are 2's

With a guy like Hughes you are hoping he can be the same kind of pass rusher in the pros that he was in college, while with Griffen & Sapp you are hoping they can be "better" pass rushers in the pros than they were in college

Derrick Morgan also had 17 career sacks, he's looked at as a top prospect.

Jason Pierre Paul only had 6.5 career sacks... also a top prospect... altho not favorite

on the other side of the coin antonio coleman and george selvie both had over 20 career sacks but neither is looked as a premium prospect.

i guess my point is 17 sacks in 3 years is good enough production... not comprable to Sapp or JPP... less than 10... also not comparable to graham or hughes... but 'good enough' i would say is a fair label.

also look at who Jerry Hughes got his sacks against... no names... Griffen beat alot of good players in the pac-10 like Eben Britton

[Come Back to NY]

Originally Posted by Green Jets & Ham

Beware of workout warriors who look a million times better in practice than they do in the actual games

I'm always suspecious of prospective pass rushers who were NOT prolific pass rushers in college (i.e. Griffen & Sapp)

Its like I keep hearing Sapp is a terror off the edge, but if that is true, then why did he only have 7.5 sacks in the past two years combined

1- he was playing on a bad leg the past year and a half...

2- you can't get to crazy about production on either side....Sapp also had 17 QB pressures last year...sacks are great but pressures/hurries often lead to turnovers...people say Worlids of Va Tech only had six sacks last year...he also had 32 QBP...

[Darth Vader]

Right - the stats are only the front end. The back end is the whole process even if a sack is not recorded.

The ral question is -

Does the player have explosion?
Does the player use his hands and strength?
Can the player dip his shoulder and bend the corner?
Does he have moves? How robust is his arsenal?
Or is he a one trick pony?
Does he have a motor when the first move fails or the play extends?
Does he have a good football awareness?

These things usually lead to pressures, if not sacks. Even so, they are things I look for.

[augustiniak]

bryan thomas had more sacks than most of these guys combined in college. in hindsight it looks like that was mostly due to inferior competition.

mangini's quote about gholston years ago was that he 'set the sack record at ohio state'. i wonder if he was a bit swayed by the pure sack number and figured that he'd be able to replicate that in the nfl.

[SenorGato]

Originally Posted by Beerfish

Amazing how 25 players are going to be in the top 20 this year.

Whenever I see 'he won't be there for the Jets or he will be a top 20 pick' I need to see who are going before players and who are going after the player in question.

Yea but in this case upside, school, pedigree (top HS recruit), athleticism, workouts, and tape all mix together. He's a better prospect than he's given credit for here...that's for sure. Probably because he's similar to Vernon Gholston measurable wise...and he got hit with the "he's not 100% every minute of every day" tag.

[bitonti]

Originally Posted by SenorGato

Yea but in this case upside, school, pedigree (top HS recruit), athleticism, workouts, and tape all mix together. He's a better prospect than he's given credit for here...that's for sure. Probably because he's similar to Vernon Gholston measurable wise...and he got hit with the "he's not 100% every minute of every day" tag.

just looking at the value board... maybe i'm wrong, but for my money there's no reason for a team to take any DE until about 14 or so...

the seahawks or someone else could reach for a DE early... but there's so many of em and none of em are clearly #1 that could hurt the whole crop.

there probably will be a tackle run, offensive and defensive in the top 10 or 15 picks... maybe throw a few linebackers (kindle, spoon, mcclain) in there... a couple Qbs and spiller... bryant your boy... but i dont know about the values of the 4-3 DE. there is no Julius Peppers or Mario Williams in this crop...

that pushes a guy like Griffen down to where he could realistically be there for the Saints or Colts... or the Jets. If he's not a fit for a 3-4 that's a possible opinion but he looks pretty nimble in drills and gets after it pretty good.

[Jonathan]

For what it's worth, a good friend of mine plays OL for the Oregon Ducks. I've been asking him lots of questions about Pac-10 defenders (as well as his own teammates). Here's what he said about Griffen:

"Griffin is much of the same, but softer. USC's entire dline was just athletic... not enough hand violence or explosiveness to be a huge threat. Just another guy that sounds like a stud on paper."

[FijiJet]

Originally Posted by Green Jets & Ham

Because that's not a lot for an edge rusher you are taking in the first round

Griffen has 12 sacks over the past two years, while Hughes has 26.5 and Graham has more than 20 as well

IMO that's why the latter two are 1st RD Picks while Griffen & Sapp are 2's

With a guy like Hughes you are hoping he can be the same kind of pass rusher in the pros that he was in college, while with Griffen & Sapp you are hoping they can be "better" pass rushers in the pros than they were in college

+1

Would actually prefer Hughes or Graham based on their pure pass rushing skills