Allegations that Santonio Holmes took money from an agent - Page 2

crasherino · 10-13-2010, 12:12 PM

[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;3778779][B]It was mentionedon ESPN radio "Mike and Mike" that the wrong "Holmes" was listed, that it wasn't Santonio Holmes.[/B]

I don't see the media stumbling over themselves for the incorrect spreading of the news.[/QUOTE]

According to whom?

FlagmanL11 · 10-13-2010, 12:12 PM

[QUOTE=Roger Vick;3778813]No they don't.

NFL teams have their own scouts.

Mel Kiper talks to a few of the scouts, and then grades the players according to what the scouts say...not the other way around.

If you think NFL teams are relying on Mel Kiper, you're funny.[/QUOTE]

Not relying, but it comes into play. As with any business, you look at all resources and a guy who does grading of players for a living is one of them.

Come Back to NY · 10-13-2010, 12:19 PM

[QUOTE=Flagman5A;3778809]Grading before the draft and yes all teams look at these grades, and not only from Kiper.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Flagman5A;3778818]Not relying, but it comes into play. As with any business, you look at all resources and a guy who does grading of players for a living is one of them.[/QUOTE]

dude- you couldn't any be more incorrect...teams don't invest $2mill a year in scouting departments to look at the final grades of anyone but their own or possibly the scouting service (BLESTO/National) they subscribe to....

further; all Kiper does is regurgitate the information on players scouts tell him...

btw- kiper's association w/Wichard has been long known and written about...if anyone didn't think it was for real all they had to do was listen and read what Kiper said about Clausen vs Bradford from Jan-through-April and do a little background info on the battle to represent Clausen....

sameoldjets · 10-13-2010, 02:57 PM

jerry holmes? john holmes?

[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;3778779]It was mentionedon ESPN radio "Mike and Mike" that the wrong "Holmes" was listed, that it wasn't Santonio Holmes.

I don't see the media stumbling over themselves for the incorrect spreading of the news.[/QUOTE]

Limolady · 10-13-2010, 03:04 PM

[QUOTE=sameoldjets;3779088]jerry holmes? john holmes?[/QUOTE]

John Holmes, the porn star that died of AIDS? :eek:

nycuse · 10-13-2010, 03:11 PM

[QUOTE=Come Back to NY;3777455]holy crap...i know Luchs incredibly well for a decade...still speak w/him occasionally...

i knew this was brewing....Luchs and John Blake (presently mired in the UNC scandal) worked with Gary Wichard for years....Wichard was one of the first big time east coast agents and represented Jets like Jerry Holmes, Darrol Ray back in the day...

Luchs went through a two year court battle against Wichard over fees on players, had to remortgage his hpuse, got into debt some $500K and lost....glad to see he once again exposes the fraud between Wichard/Kiper...[/QUOTE]

fraud between wichard/kiper?

NY's stepchild · 10-13-2010, 03:14 PM

[QUOTE=sameoldjets;3779088]jerry holmes? john holmes?[/QUOTE]

Sherlock, or Katie, I think.

Ray Ray19 · 10-13-2010, 03:28 PM

[QUOTE=crasherino;3778817]According to whom?[/QUOTE]

Gary Wichard, he was a guest on their show.

kcb160 · 10-13-2010, 03:56 PM

[QUOTE=Warfish;3778808]Why would I care what a played did before he became a Professional? It's just not relevant to now in any meaningful form.[/QUOTE]

+1

Once a kid has been the NFL for more than a year I really don't care about any of this. If you want to go after the schools then fine, but as far as the players are concerned I don't care anymore. They should have caught them when they were in school. Once they are NFL players please move on. They have enough to deal with - with DWIs and baby mama drama (see Cro).

VINNYT · 10-13-2010, 04:01 PM

the guy was on Mike and Mike this morning...IT'S THE WRONG HOLMES!! he 100% cleared Santonio

Kurt Sohn · 10-13-2010, 04:07 PM

Mike and Mike said that Luchs gave money to Santonio Holmes. Luchs said he gave money to a different Holmes, not Santonio. But...

Luchs confirmed that Santonio Holmes said that he was already being taking care of by another agent when Luchs approached him in Columbus.

VINNYT · 10-13-2010, 04:12 PM

yes and he also said the Santonio told them no

rep · 10-13-2010, 05:59 PM

[QUOTE=GreenReaper;3777457]It will end when the NCAA stops pretending that athletes, that bring in millions into big time college programs...are simply students. They are entertainers. And as such...they and their families...deserve to get a fair share of this wealth that's generated for these institutions. JMO.[/QUOTE]

I very much disagree. Paying these athletes money would cripple college sports. Every sport except for football and basketball would not exist anymore. All the other sports rely heavily on the basketball and football programs to bring in money to the school.

FF2® · 10-13-2010, 06:08 PM

Are there any Jets NOT currently under investigation? :confused:

rep · 10-13-2010, 06:10 PM

[QUOTE=Kurt Sohn;3779190]Mike and Mike said that Luchs gave money to Santonio Holmes. Luchs said he gave money to a different Holmes, not Santonio. But...

Luchs confirmed that Santonio Holmes said that he was already being taking care of by another agent when Luchs approached him in Columbus.[/QUOTE]

I agree with your interpretation of what was said. Luchs tells Mike and Mike that they were wrong when they reported that he paid Holmes money. He then goes on to say that he met Santonio Holmes once, and Santonio Holmes told him that he was already being taken care of by another agent. He paid a different Holmes. Doesn't clear Santonio's name. All Luchs was clarifying is that there are two Holmes involved. One, Santonio Holmes, who basically told Luchs that he was being paid by another agent, and another one that Luchs had actually paid.

Here is what was actually said by Luchs:
"I want to clarify one thing, Earlier you had said that I had paid Santonio Holmes, and I never did. I met Santonio Holmes once, he was kind enough
to tell me not to waste my time because he had an arrangement elsewhere and at that time I wasn't offerring up money to players because i hadn't done
it since 1999. So I just wanted to set the record straight. It was another player named Holmes, not Santonio Holmes."

The interview is available here: [url]http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5681002[/url]

Roger Vick · 10-13-2010, 06:44 PM

[QUOTE=FF2®;3779259]Are there any Jets NOT currently under investigation? :confused:[/QUOTE]

Are there any Patriots who didn't cheat?

GreenReaper · 10-13-2010, 07:40 PM

[QUOTE=rep;3779251]I very much disagree. Paying these athletes money would cripple college sports. [B]Every sport except for football and basketball would not exist anymore. [/B] All the other sports rely heavily on the basketball and football programs to bring in money to the school.[/QUOTE]

You may be right...about the less glamorous sports on these campuses...depending for their existence on the football and basketball programs. Perhaps these two sports programs could be granted a special designation or exemption from the others. That would allow the athletes to be paid. And if this can't be done...too bad...let these institutions of infinite Wisdom and Knowledge...use their noggins to finding alternative solutions.

Football and basketball are raising millions of funds for these institutions. And IMO...there's no excuse or justification...to deny these athletes from receiving fair compensation. For their entertainment value that these institutions benefit from. A fair share of those revenues belongs to those players and their families.

My concern is for all those players of football-basketball...putting their bodies on the line for the Glory...while these institutions get all the gravey train loads of money. Very few of those "student-athletes", are ever going to see their dreams fulfilled in the NFL-NBA. And many of them will never come close to earning a yearly salary in the outside world...that would be close to the equivolent to what they could get from their deserving share of this sports money. They could walk away from this phase of their lives...with a decent nest egg...that would then help them move forward with the rest of their lives.

Cause many of these players come from poor inner city backgrounds. And those families could truly use that fair share of money, their sons help to generate, to take care of some of their needs. To me...it is the right thing to do. To just pay them up front. As opposed to, the NCAA NAZIS and the FEDS, to victimize and hound the players, and their families...with investigations! Pay them...or else it is then nothing more then slave labor and a cruel hypocrisy.

The irony to all of this. Is the amount of money that is being spent to investigate these young athletes and their families...turning it into a big time industry. Why don't they just devote these resources to finding Osama Bin Laden?

IMO...all these bunch of "student-athlete" football/basketball beans...piles up to nothing more then a ludicrous mound of hypocrisy.

hatnlvr · 10-13-2010, 07:45 PM

[QUOTE=GreenReaper;3777457]It will end when the NCAA stops pretending that athletes, that bring in millions into big time college programs...are simply students. They are entertainers. And as such...they and their families...deserve to get a fair share of this wealth that's generated for these institutions. JMO.[/QUOTE]

Great Post! Couldn't agree with you more.

intothegreen · 10-13-2010, 07:50 PM

[QUOTE=VINNYT;3779183]the guy was on Mike and Mike this morning...IT'S THE WRONG HOLMES!! he 100% cleared Santonio[/QUOTE]

Not 100%. The guy clarified that Santonio had other arangements (wasnt really specific on what arangements), but did not take anything from this guy.

No need to be worried though.

NY's stepchild · 10-14-2010, 12:11 AM

[QUOTE=intothegreen;3779347]Not 100%. The guy clarified that Santonio had other arangements (wasnt really specific on what arangements), but did not take anything from this guy.

No need to be worried though.[/QUOTE]

You wouldn't have to be worried anyway. It's not illegal to take money from an agent. Just against the rules. So the worst that could happen is his college career could be tarnished.

10-13-2010, 07:40 PM	#37
GreenReaper ...back from the DEAD...again! All Pro Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,553	[QUOTE=rep;3779251]I very much disagree. Paying these athletes money would cripple college sports. [B]Every sport except for football and basketball would not exist anymore. [/B] All the other sports rely heavily on the basketball and football programs to bring in money to the school.[/QUOTE] You may be right...about the less glamorous sports on these campuses...depending for their existence on the football and basketball programs. Perhaps these two sports programs could be granted a special designation or exemption from the others. That would allow the athletes to be paid. And if this can't be done...too bad...let these institutions of infinite Wisdom and Knowledge...use their noggins to finding alternative solutions. Football and basketball are raising millions of funds for these institutions. And IMO...there's no excuse or justification...to deny these athletes from receiving fair compensation. For their entertainment value that these institutions benefit from. A fair share of those revenues belongs to those players and their families. My concern is for all those players of football-basketball...putting their bodies on the line for the Glory...while these institutions get all the gravey train loads of money. Very few of those "student-athletes", are ever going to see their dreams fulfilled in the NFL-NBA. And many of them will never come close to earning a yearly salary in the outside world...that would be close to the equivolent to what they could get from their deserving share of this sports money. They could walk away from this phase of their lives...with a decent nest egg...that would then help them move forward with the rest of their lives. Cause many of these players come from poor inner city backgrounds. And those families could truly use that fair share of money, their sons help to generate, to take care of some of their needs. To me...it is the right thing to do. To just pay them up front. As opposed to, the NCAA NAZIS and the FEDS, to victimize and hound the players, and their families...with investigations! Pay them...or else it is then nothing more then slave labor and a cruel hypocrisy. The irony to all of this. Is the amount of money that is being spent to investigate these young athletes and their families...turning it into a big time industry. Why don't they just devote these resources to finding Osama Bin Laden? IMO...all these bunch of "student-athlete" football/basketball beans...piles up to nothing more then a ludicrous mound of hypocrisy. Last edited by GreenReaper; 10-13-2010 at 08:57 PM.

10-13-2010, 12:12 PM	#21
crasherino Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 16,826	[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;3778779][B]It was mentionedon ESPN radio "Mike and Mike" that the wrong "Holmes" was listed, that it wasn't Santonio Holmes.[/B] I don't see the media stumbling over themselves for the incorrect spreading of the news.[/QUOTE] According to whom?

10-13-2010, 12:12 PM	#22
FlagmanL11 4 months until the first home tailgate!! Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: North Jersey Posts: 3,069	[QUOTE=Roger Vick;3778813]No they don't. NFL teams have their own scouts. Mel Kiper talks to a few of the scouts, and then grades the players according to what the scouts say...not the other way around. If you think NFL teams are relying on Mel Kiper, you're funny.[/QUOTE] Not relying, but it comes into play. As with any business, you look at all resources and a guy who does grading of players for a living is one of them.

10-13-2010, 12:19 PM	#23
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[QUOTE=Flagman5A;3778809]Grading before the draft and yes all teams look at these grades, and not only from Kiper.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Flagman5A;3778818]Not relying, but it comes into play. As with any business, you look at all resources and a guy who does grading of players for a living is one of them.[/QUOTE] dude- you couldn't any be more incorrect...teams don't invest $2mill a year in scouting departments to look at the final grades of anyone but their own or possibly the scouting service (BLESTO/National) they subscribe to.... further; all Kiper does is regurgitate the information on players scouts tell him... btw- kiper's association w/Wichard has been long known and written about...if anyone didn't think it was for real all they had to do was listen and read what Kiper said about Clausen vs Bradford from Jan-through-April and do a little background info on the battle to represent Clausen....

10-13-2010, 02:57 PM	#24
sameoldjets All Pro Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,483	jerry holmes? john holmes? [QUOTE=Ray Ray19;3778779]It was mentionedon ESPN radio "Mike and Mike" that the wrong "Holmes" was listed, that it wasn't Santonio Holmes. I don't see the media stumbling over themselves for the incorrect spreading of the news.[/QUOTE]

10-13-2010, 03:04 PM	#25
Limolady Here On A "Need To Know" Basis. Jets Insider VIP Super*****/Prom Queen Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 16,399	[QUOTE=sameoldjets;3779088]jerry holmes? john holmes?[/QUOTE] John Holmes, the porn star that died of AIDS? :eek:

10-13-2010, 03:11 PM	#26
nycuse Veteran Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 1,291	[QUOTE=Come Back to NY;3777455]holy crap...i know Luchs incredibly well for a decade...still speak w/him occasionally... i knew this was brewing....Luchs and John Blake (presently mired in the UNC scandal) worked with Gary Wichard for years....Wichard was one of the first big time east coast agents and represented Jets like Jerry Holmes, Darrol Ray back in the day... Luchs went through a two year court battle against Wichard over fees on players, had to remortgage his hpuse, got into debt some $500K and lost....glad to see he once again exposes the fraud between Wichard/Kiper...[/QUOTE] fraud between wichard/kiper?

10-13-2010, 03:14 PM	#27
NY's stepchild Here's hoping that GS3 under center, and Coples on the edge works out. All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hawthorne NJ Posts: 4,715	[QUOTE=sameoldjets;3779088]jerry holmes? john holmes?[/QUOTE] Sherlock, or Katie, I think.

10-13-2010, 03:28 PM	#28
Ray Ray19 Not a SOJF Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 13,839	[QUOTE=crasherino;3778817]According to whom?[/QUOTE] Gary Wichard, he was a guest on their show.

10-13-2010, 03:56 PM	#29
kcb160 Practice Squad Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 464	[QUOTE=Warfish;3778808]Why would I care what a played did before he became a Professional? It's just not relevant to now in any meaningful form.[/QUOTE] +1 Once a kid has been the NFL for more than a year I really don't care about any of this. If you want to go after the schools then fine, but as far as the players are concerned I don't care anymore. They should have caught them when they were in school. Once they are NFL players please move on. They have enough to deal with - with DWIs and baby mama drama (see Cro).

10-13-2010, 04:01 PM	#30
VINNYT 148 and lovin it. Rookie Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 529	the guy was on Mike and Mike this morning...IT'S THE WRONG HOLMES!! he 100% cleared Santonio

10-13-2010, 04:07 PM	#31
Kurt Sohn Waterboy Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 85	Mike and Mike said that Luchs gave money to Santonio Holmes. Luchs said he gave money to a different Holmes, not Santonio. But... Luchs confirmed that Santonio Holmes said that he was already being taking care of by another agent when Luchs approached him in Columbus.

10-13-2010, 04:12 PM	#32
VINNYT 148 and lovin it. Rookie Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 529	yes and he also said the Santonio told them no

10-13-2010, 05:59 PM	#33
rep All League Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Groton Posts: 2,799	[QUOTE=GreenReaper;3777457]It will end when the NCAA stops pretending that athletes, that bring in millions into big time college programs...are simply students. They are entertainers. And as such...they and their families...deserve to get a fair share of this wealth that's generated for these institutions. JMO.[/QUOTE] I very much disagree. Paying these athletes money would cripple college sports. Every sport except for football and basketball would not exist anymore. All the other sports rely heavily on the basketball and football programs to bring in money to the school.

10-13-2010, 06:08 PM	#34
FF2® Believes Sloppy Guy was involved JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 46,223	Are there any Jets NOT currently under investigation? :confused:

10-13-2010, 06:10 PM	#35
rep All League Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Groton Posts: 2,799	[QUOTE=Kurt Sohn;3779190]Mike and Mike said that Luchs gave money to Santonio Holmes. Luchs said he gave money to a different Holmes, not Santonio. But... Luchs confirmed that Santonio Holmes said that he was already being taking care of by another agent when Luchs approached him in Columbus.[/QUOTE] I agree with your interpretation of what was said. Luchs tells Mike and Mike that they were wrong when they reported that he paid Holmes money. He then goes on to say that he met Santonio Holmes once, and Santonio Holmes told him that he was already being taken care of by another agent. He paid a different Holmes. Doesn't clear Santonio's name. All Luchs was clarifying is that there are two Holmes involved. One, Santonio Holmes, who basically told Luchs that he was being paid by another agent, and another one that Luchs had actually paid. Here is what was actually said by Luchs: "I want to clarify one thing, Earlier you had said that I had paid Santonio Holmes, and I never did. I met Santonio Holmes once, he was kind enough to tell me not to waste my time because he had an arrangement elsewhere and at that time I wasn't offerring up money to players because i hadn't done it since 1999. So I just wanted to set the record straight. It was another player named Holmes, not Santonio Holmes." The interview is available here: [url]http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5681002[/url]

10-13-2010, 06:44 PM	#36
Roger Vick Banned Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 9,533	[QUOTE=FF2®;3779259]Are there any Jets NOT currently under investigation? :confused:[/QUOTE] Are there any Patriots who didn't cheat?

10-13-2010, 07:45 PM	#38
hatnlvr Jets Fan for Life! All Pro Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,267	[QUOTE=GreenReaper;3777457]It will end when the NCAA stops pretending that athletes, that bring in millions into big time college programs...are simply students. They are entertainers. And as such...they and their families...deserve to get a fair share of this wealth that's generated for these institutions. JMO.[/QUOTE] Great Post! Couldn't agree with you more.

10-13-2010, 07:50 PM	#39
intothegreen All League Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 743	[QUOTE=VINNYT;3779183]the guy was on Mike and Mike this morning...IT'S THE WRONG HOLMES!! he 100% cleared Santonio[/QUOTE] Not 100%. The guy clarified that Santonio had other arangements (wasnt really specific on what arangements), but did not take anything from this guy. No need to be worried though.

10-14-2010, 12:11 AM	#40
NY's stepchild Here's hoping that GS3 under center, and Coples on the edge works out. All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hawthorne NJ Posts: 4,715	[QUOTE=intothegreen;3779347]Not 100%. The guy clarified that Santonio had other arangements (wasnt really specific on what arangements), but did not take anything from this guy. No need to be worried though.[/QUOTE] You wouldn't have to be worried anyway. It's not illegal to take money from an agent. Just against the rules. So the worst that could happen is his college career could be tarnished.