"American exceptionalism"

YellowSubmarine · 11-26-2010, 08:55 AM

What, exactly, does "American exceptionalism" mean? Is it true or is it a myth? Do those of you from other countries find the phrase offensive?

Warfish · 11-26-2010, 10:56 AM

[QUOTE=wikipedia][B][U]American exceptionalism[/U][/B] refers to the opinion that the United States is qualitatively different from other nations.

Its exceptionalism stems from its emergence from a revolution, becoming "the first new nation",[1] and developing a unique American ideology, based on liberty, egalitarianism, individualism, populism and laissez-faire".

This observation can be traced to Alexis de Tocqueville, the first writer to describe the United States as "exceptional". Although the term does not imply superiority, some writers have used it in that sense.[1] To them, the United States is a "shining city on a hill", and exempt from historical forces that have affected other countries[/QUOTE]

But I'd guess you already knew that, and was trying (feebly) to make a point?

PlumberKhan · 11-26-2010, 02:59 PM

[IMG]http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu190/PlumberKhan/palinblechcrop.jpg[/IMG]

DeanPatsFan · 11-26-2010, 05:42 PM

[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;3836237][IMG]http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu190/PlumberKhan/palinblechcrop.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

No video of her shooting wolves from her helicopter?

intelligentjetsfan · 11-27-2010, 07:53 AM

Its a more PC, updated version of Manifest Destiny................

YellowSubmarine · 11-27-2010, 08:08 AM

I don't hate this country. Far from it. What I hate is the idea that we're somehow better than everybody else.

The people that believe in American exceptionalism often try to oppress their own people. The teabaggers are just puppets to be controlled by the likes of Sarah Palin.

intelligentjetsfan · 11-27-2010, 08:32 AM

[QUOTE=YellowSubmarine;3836766]I don't hate this country. Far from it. What I hate is the idea that we're somehow better than everybody else.

The people that believe in American exceptionalism often try to oppress their own people. The teabaggers are just puppets to be controlled by the likes of Sarah Palin.[/QUOTE]

100% agree :yes:

Sadly, many Americans have been brainwashed into buying into the fairy tale version of US History. Like you, I love America. But in order to truly love something you must first see it for what it is. America has done, and continues to do, some wonder things around the world. But, as an example, the idea that our military intervention has always been to 'help others' is the John Wayne version of history that the Fox & Friends viewing audience regurgitates. My answer; teach them the greatness of how we help to liberate France during WWII but balance that with teaching them about the Pentagon Papers and what they meant in the context of Vietnam.

Warfish · 11-27-2010, 09:29 AM

Well, someone who buys into liberal ideology, multiculuralism, heterogeniety, relativism of equifinality, outright moral relativism, and of course the ideals of socialism/communism/marxism....these folks will never believe nor accept that one nation or one person is or could be "better" than another.

So it's no suprise the two of you find the idea repulsive. I would expect any Democrat or Liberal to feel the same way.

sackdance · 11-27-2010, 10:12 AM

[QUOTE=YellowSubmarine;3835658]What, exactly, does "American exceptionalism" mean? Is it true or is it a myth? Do those of you from other countries find the phrase offensive?[/QUOTE]

It's a higher ideal. And it's why, traditionally, America attracts the hardest working immigrants and why we're the "melting pot"; folks from sh*tty countries aspire for something better and believe they can find it here.

People from other countries should have better things to do than find the term "American exceptionalism" offensive, though Americans who do not have anything better to do often project and then fret about what the "world" thinks.

intelligentjetsfan · 11-27-2010, 10:25 AM

[QUOTE=Warfish;3836809]Well, someone who buys into liberal ideology, multiculuralism, heterogeniety, relativism of equifinality, outright moral relativism, [B]and of course the ideals of socialism/communism/marx[/B]ism....these folks will never believe nor accept that one nation or one person is or could be "better" than another.

So it's no suprise the two of you find the idea repulsive. [B] I would expect any Democrat or Liberal to feel the same way[/B].[/QUOTE]

Right, because [B]all [/B]democrats/liberals are communists, socialists, marxists (I don't watch Fox so I am not current on what else Karl Rove is selling).

Its one thing to be proud of your country...that is [B]patriotism[/B]

Its another to think that you are better then everyone else...thats [B]nationalism[/B]. And that false idealogy has caused wars (see WWI & II)

cr726 · 11-27-2010, 10:37 AM

[QUOTE=Warfish;3836809]Well, someone who buys into liberal ideology, multiculuralism, heterogeniety, relativism of equifinality, outright moral relativism, and of course the ideals of socialism/communism/marxism....these folks will never believe nor accept that one nation or one person is or could be "better" than another.

So it's no suprise the two of you find the idea repulsive. I would expect any Democrat or Liberal to feel the same way.[/QUOTE]

Generalizing is just an easy way to ignore the real issues.

acepepe · 11-27-2010, 10:47 AM

[QUOTE=YellowSubmarine;3836766]I don't hate this country. Far from it. What I hate is the idea that we're somehow better than everybody else.

The people that believe in American exceptionalism often try to oppress their own people. The teabaggers are just puppets to be controlled by the likes of Sarah Palin.[/QUOTE]

Wrong, I've been a patriot 40 years before Palin was on the scene. meanwhile, the like of people like you have been taking marching orders from Walter ( the biggest scumbag in America) Concrite, Dan (liar) Rather, Oprah (racist) Winfrey,
CNN, NBC, ABC, NPR, Hollywood, the NYC school district, commie lib professors and school teachers, ET-AL

PlumberKhan · 11-27-2010, 11:02 AM

[QUOTE=acepepe;3836874]Wrong, I've been a patriot 40 years before Palin was on the scene. meanwhile, the like of people like you have been taking marching orders from Walter ( the biggest scumbag in America) Concrite, Dan (liar) Rather, Oprah (racist) Winfrey,
CNN, NBC, ABC, NPR, Hollywood, the NYC school district, commie lib professors and school teachers, ET-AL[/QUOTE]

Wow.

You do realize that responding to someones generalizations of your political beliefs with generalizations of their political beliefs...well...it's just kinda silly.

"You take orders from Palin, Rove and Limbaugh!!"

"No! You take orders from Cronkite, Rather and Soros!!"

My 2 cents (LMFAO!!!!): The whole "American Exceptionalism"? Kinda like minivan driving parents with the "My Kid is an Honor Student" bumper sticker :P

Come Back to NY · 11-27-2010, 11:17 AM

[QUOTE=YellowSubmarine;3836766]I don't hate this country. Far from it. What I hate is the idea that we're somehow better than everybody else.

The people that believe in American exceptionalism often try to oppress their own people. The teabaggers are just puppets to be controlled by the likes of Sarah Palin.[/QUOTE]

right...because the idea of American exceptionalism started with "teabaggers"....

gotta laugh at the reasoning, rational of brain dead liberals....

cr726 · 11-27-2010, 11:58 AM

[QUOTE=Come Back to NY;3836907]right...because the idea of American exceptionalism started with "teabaggers"....

gotta laugh at the reasoning, rational of brain dead liberals....[/QUOTE]

You gotta be happy the Teabaggers are being mentioned. :D

Come Back to NY · 11-27-2010, 12:23 PM

[QUOTE=cr726;3836945]You gotta be happy the Teabaggers are being mentioned. :D[/QUOTE]

yup...and since 11/02 me and the other "teabaggers" are having the last laugh...:yes:

southparkcpa · 11-27-2010, 12:58 PM

[QUOTE=YellowSubmarine;3836766]I don't hate this country. Far from it. What I hate is the idea that we're somehow better than everybody else.

The people that believe in American exceptionalism often try to oppress their own people. The teabaggers are just puppets to be controlled by the likes of Sarah Palin.[/QUOTE]

I love the way "open minded liberals" are the biggest flame throwers of hate.

Tea baggers controlled by Palin???? What party controls demographics better than liberals. As an example, Blacks ALWAYS vote 90 percent in one direction. Are they puppets too?

Warfish · 11-27-2010, 01:16 PM

[QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;3836846]Right, because [B]all [/B]democrats/liberals are communists, socialists, marxists (I don't watch Fox so I am not current on what else Karl Rove is selling).[/quote]

I don't either, and hold Rove is disdain.

And yes, most Democrat Liberals I know (here and elsewhere) hold the ideals I listed.

[quote]Its one thing to be proud of your country...that is [B]patriotism[/B]

Its another to think that you are better then everyone else...thats [B]nationalism[/B]. And that false idealogy has caused wars (see WWI & II)[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes:

Fervant Overzealous Millitarized Desperate Nationalism was a tool used by the Tyrant-led states, not a cause of either War. In fact, one could say WWI was caused by that acts "freedom fighters" fighting against ethnic opression and abuse, than by pure Nationalism. I thogh Libs defended the oppressed?

WWII is even more obvious, millitarized nationalism was simply a tool used to maniplate the downtrodden (German) or cultually plaint (Japaneese) masses to the aims of their Tyrant Leaders insane powerr-hunger.

Amercian Exceptionalism is not that. As stated, it's the idea that we are better because of "...liberty, egalitarianism, individualism, populism and laissez-faire". Nothing says other Nations could not persue these ideals as well, and be just as "good" or "exceptional".

There is nothing overzealous about the idea of American Exceptionalism itself. Broken down, it's effectively National Self-Confidence, based on the founding ideals, nothing more.

The trouble with it, is it's been dead in America for at least 50 years now. The reality of American Exceptionalism died a long time ago, so it's somewhat irrelvant now, as it doesn't exist.

Folks like most Liberals/Democrats I know would never allow it to exist again, even if it could. Which is a shame, they may be supportive of being absolutely equal with everyone else (by force of law/illitary if required), but I like and support the idea that my Nation and the people who make it up, want to be better that everyone else in the world (via the ideals of American Exceptionalism), not merely forced to be equal, i.e. like everyone else.

As I said, I think you've only proven you do suport many of the listed idealogies from my earlier post. To you, nothing is worse than believing ones nation and it's people to be the best.

In your view, it seems, we must pipe down, and take our equal place alongside Cuba, China, North Korea, Iran and the rest, no stronger, no better, no more important, simpel one at the great table of equal nations in the world. If I recall, you're a big supporter of the United Nations, are you not? No suprise there.

[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;3836893]My 2 cents (LMFAO!!!!): The whole "American Exceptionalism"? Kinda like minivan driving parents with the "My Kid is an Honor Student" bumper sticker :P[/QUOTE]

Quite accurate today. As I said, this is a bit silly a debate, since the core idea being discussed has been dead as dog**** for half a century now.

SafetyBlitz · 11-27-2010, 01:39 PM

[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;3836893]Wow.

You do realize that responding to someones generalizations of your political beliefs with generalizations of their political beliefs...well...it's just kinda silly.

"You take orders from Palin, Rove and Limbaugh!!"

"No! You take orders from Cronkite, Rather and Soros!!"

My 2 cents (LMFAO!!!!): [B]The whole "American Exceptionalism"? Kinda like minivan driving parents with the "My Kid is an Honor Student" bumper sticker :P[/B][/QUOTE]

Hahaha

You know, there are some people that are very patriotic and there are some people that are very skeptical. So long as they're honest, we need 'em both.

cr726 · 11-27-2010, 03:23 PM

[QUOTE=Come Back to NY;3836968]yup...and since 11/02 me and the other "teabaggers" are having the last laugh...:yes:[/QUOTE]

Need to do more than win a few elections.

11-26-2010, 08:55 AM	#1
YellowSubmarine Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 298	"American exceptionalism" What, exactly, does "American exceptionalism" mean? Is it true or is it a myth? Do those of you from other countries find the phrase offensive?

11-27-2010, 10:25 AM	#10
intelligentjetsfan All Pro Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5,307	[QUOTE=Warfish;3836809]Well, someone who buys into liberal ideology, multiculuralism, heterogeniety, relativism of equifinality, outright moral relativism, [B]and of course the ideals of socialism/communism/marx[/B]ism....these folks will never believe nor accept that one nation or one person is or could be "better" than another. So it's no suprise the two of you find the idea repulsive. [B] I would expect any Democrat or Liberal to feel the same way[/B].[/QUOTE] Right, because [B]all [/B]democrats/liberals are communists, socialists, marxists (I don't watch Fox so I am not current on what else Karl Rove is selling). Its one thing to be proud of your country...that is [B]patriotism[/B] Its another to think that you are better then everyone else...thats [B]nationalism[/B]. And that false idealogy has caused wars (see WWI & II) Last edited by intelligentjetsfan; 11-27-2010 at 10:32 AM.

11-27-2010, 01:16 PM	#18
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;3836846]Right, because [B]all [/B]democrats/liberals are communists, socialists, marxists (I don't watch Fox so I am not current on what else Karl Rove is selling).[/quote] I don't either, and hold Rove is disdain. And yes, most Democrat Liberals I know (here and elsewhere) hold the ideals I listed. [quote]Its one thing to be proud of your country...that is [B]patriotism[/B] Its another to think that you are better then everyone else...thats [B]nationalism[/B]. And that false idealogy has caused wars (see WWI & II)[/QUOTE] :rolleyes: Fervant Overzealous Millitarized Desperate Nationalism was a tool used by the Tyrant-led states, not a cause of either War. In fact, one could say WWI was caused by that acts "freedom fighters" fighting against ethnic opression and abuse, than by pure Nationalism. I thogh Libs defended the oppressed? WWII is even more obvious, millitarized nationalism was simply a tool used to maniplate the downtrodden (German) or cultually plaint (Japaneese) masses to the aims of their Tyrant Leaders insane powerr-hunger. Amercian Exceptionalism is not that. As stated, it's the idea that we are better because of "...liberty, egalitarianism, individualism, populism and laissez-faire". Nothing says other Nations could not persue these ideals as well, and be just as "good" or "exceptional". There is nothing overzealous about the idea of American Exceptionalism itself. Broken down, it's effectively National Self-Confidence, based on the founding ideals, nothing more. The trouble with it, is it's been dead in America for at least 50 years now. The reality of American Exceptionalism died a long time ago, so it's somewhat irrelvant now, as it doesn't exist. Folks like most Liberals/Democrats I know would never allow it to exist again, even if it could. Which is a shame, they may be supportive of being absolutely equal with everyone else (by force of law/illitary if required), but I like and support the idea that my Nation and the people who make it up, want to be better that everyone else in the world (via the ideals of American Exceptionalism), not merely forced to be equal, i.e. like everyone else. As I said, I think you've only proven you do suport many of the listed idealogies from my earlier post. To you, nothing is worse than believing ones nation and it's people to be the best. In your view, it seems, we must pipe down, and take our equal place alongside Cuba, China, North Korea, Iran and the rest, no stronger, no better, no more important, simpel one at the great table of equal nations in the world. If I recall, you're a big supporter of the United Nations, are you not? No suprise there. [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;3836893]My 2 cents (LMFAO!!!!): The whole "American Exceptionalism"? Kinda like minivan driving parents with the "My Kid is an Honor Student" bumper sticker :P[/QUOTE] Quite accurate today. As I said, this is a bit silly a debate, since the core idea being discussed has been dead as dog**** for half a century now. Last edited by Warfish; 11-27-2010 at 01:25 PM.

11-26-2010, 10:56 AM	#2
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[QUOTE=wikipedia][B][U]American exceptionalism[/U][/B] refers to the opinion that the United States is qualitatively different from other nations. Its exceptionalism stems from its emergence from a revolution, becoming "the first new nation",[1] and developing a unique American ideology, based on liberty, egalitarianism, individualism, populism and laissez-faire". This observation can be traced to Alexis de Tocqueville, the first writer to describe the United States as "exceptional". Although the term does not imply superiority, some writers have used it in that sense.[1] To them, the United States is a "shining city on a hill", and exempt from historical forces that have affected other countries[/QUOTE] But I'd guess you already knew that, and was trying (feebly) to make a point?

11-26-2010, 02:59 PM	#3
PlumberKhan BRACE YOURSELVES FOR 12... Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,029	[IMG]http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu190/PlumberKhan/palinblechcrop.jpg[/IMG]

11-26-2010, 05:42 PM	#4
DeanPatsFan Lib Free Or Die..... All Pro Annoying Chowd Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,143	[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;3836237][IMG]http://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu190/PlumberKhan/palinblechcrop.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] No video of her shooting wolves from her helicopter?

11-27-2010, 07:53 AM	#5
intelligentjetsfan All Pro Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5,307	Its a more PC, updated version of Manifest Destiny................

11-27-2010, 08:08 AM	#6
YellowSubmarine Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 298	I don't hate this country. Far from it. What I hate is the idea that we're somehow better than everybody else. The people that believe in American exceptionalism often try to oppress their own people. The teabaggers are just puppets to be controlled by the likes of Sarah Palin.

11-27-2010, 08:32 AM	#7
intelligentjetsfan All Pro Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5,307	[QUOTE=YellowSubmarine;3836766]I don't hate this country. Far from it. What I hate is the idea that we're somehow better than everybody else. The people that believe in American exceptionalism often try to oppress their own people. The teabaggers are just puppets to be controlled by the likes of Sarah Palin.[/QUOTE] 100% agree :yes: Sadly, many Americans have been brainwashed into buying into the fairy tale version of US History. Like you, I love America. But in order to truly love something you must first see it for what it is. America has done, and continues to do, some wonder things around the world. But, as an example, the idea that our military intervention has always been to 'help others' is the John Wayne version of history that the Fox & Friends viewing audience regurgitates. My answer; teach them the greatness of how we help to liberate France during WWII but balance that with teaching them about the Pentagon Papers and what they meant in the context of Vietnam.

11-27-2010, 09:29 AM	#8
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	Well, someone who buys into liberal ideology, multiculuralism, heterogeniety, relativism of equifinality, outright moral relativism, and of course the ideals of socialism/communism/marxism....these folks will never believe nor accept that one nation or one person is or could be "better" than another. So it's no suprise the two of you find the idea repulsive. I would expect any Democrat or Liberal to feel the same way.

11-27-2010, 10:12 AM	#9
sackdance All Pro Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,889	[QUOTE=YellowSubmarine;3835658]What, exactly, does "American exceptionalism" mean? Is it true or is it a myth? Do those of you from other countries find the phrase offensive?[/QUOTE] It's a higher ideal. And it's why, traditionally, America attracts the hardest working immigrants and why we're the "melting pot"; folks from sh*tty countries aspire for something better and believe they can find it here. People from other countries should have better things to do than find the term "American exceptionalism" offensive, though Americans who do not have anything better to do often project and then fret about what the "world" thinks.

11-27-2010, 10:37 AM	#11
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,329	[QUOTE=Warfish;3836809]Well, someone who buys into liberal ideology, multiculuralism, heterogeniety, relativism of equifinality, outright moral relativism, and of course the ideals of socialism/communism/marxism....these folks will never believe nor accept that one nation or one person is or could be "better" than another. So it's no suprise the two of you find the idea repulsive. I would expect any Democrat or Liberal to feel the same way.[/QUOTE] Generalizing is just an easy way to ignore the real issues.

11-27-2010, 10:47 AM	#12
acepepe All League Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,431	[QUOTE=YellowSubmarine;3836766]I don't hate this country. Far from it. What I hate is the idea that we're somehow better than everybody else. The people that believe in American exceptionalism often try to oppress their own people. The teabaggers are just puppets to be controlled by the likes of Sarah Palin.[/QUOTE] Wrong, I've been a patriot 40 years before Palin was on the scene. meanwhile, the like of people like you have been taking marching orders from Walter ( the biggest scumbag in America) Concrite, Dan (liar) Rather, Oprah (racist) Winfrey, CNN, NBC, ABC, NPR, Hollywood, the NYC school district, commie lib professors and school teachers, ET-AL

11-27-2010, 11:02 AM	#13
PlumberKhan BRACE YOURSELVES FOR 12... Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,029	[QUOTE=acepepe;3836874]Wrong, I've been a patriot 40 years before Palin was on the scene. meanwhile, the like of people like you have been taking marching orders from Walter ( the biggest scumbag in America) Concrite, Dan (liar) Rather, Oprah (racist) Winfrey, CNN, NBC, ABC, NPR, Hollywood, the NYC school district, commie lib professors and school teachers, ET-AL[/QUOTE] Wow. You do realize that responding to someones generalizations of your political beliefs with generalizations of their political beliefs...well...it's just kinda silly. "You take orders from Palin, Rove and Limbaugh!!" "No! You take orders from Cronkite, Rather and Soros!!" My 2 cents (LMFAO!!!!): The whole "American Exceptionalism"? Kinda like minivan driving parents with the "My Kid is an Honor Student" bumper sticker :P

11-27-2010, 11:17 AM	#14
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[QUOTE=YellowSubmarine;3836766]I don't hate this country. Far from it. What I hate is the idea that we're somehow better than everybody else. The people that believe in American exceptionalism often try to oppress their own people. The teabaggers are just puppets to be controlled by the likes of Sarah Palin.[/QUOTE] right...because the idea of American exceptionalism started with "teabaggers".... gotta laugh at the reasoning, rational of brain dead liberals....

11-27-2010, 11:58 AM	#15
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,329	[QUOTE=Come Back to NY;3836907]right...because the idea of American exceptionalism started with "teabaggers".... gotta laugh at the reasoning, rational of brain dead liberals....[/QUOTE] You gotta be happy the Teabaggers are being mentioned. :D

11-27-2010, 12:23 PM	#16
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[QUOTE=cr726;3836945]You gotta be happy the Teabaggers are being mentioned. :D[/QUOTE] yup...and since 11/02 me and the other "teabaggers" are having the last laugh...:yes:

11-27-2010, 12:58 PM	#17
southparkcpa I see the 88 to 97 period all over again. Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NC Posts: 15,756	[QUOTE=YellowSubmarine;3836766]I don't hate this country. Far from it. What I hate is the idea that we're somehow better than everybody else. The people that believe in American exceptionalism often try to oppress their own people. The teabaggers are just puppets to be controlled by the likes of Sarah Palin.[/QUOTE] I love the way "open minded liberals" are the biggest flame throwers of hate. Tea baggers controlled by Palin???? What party controls demographics better than liberals. As an example, Blacks ALWAYS vote 90 percent in one direction. Are they puppets too?

11-27-2010, 01:39 PM	#19
SafetyBlitz Veteran Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,997	[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;3836893]Wow. You do realize that responding to someones generalizations of your political beliefs with generalizations of their political beliefs...well...it's just kinda silly. "You take orders from Palin, Rove and Limbaugh!!" "No! You take orders from Cronkite, Rather and Soros!!" My 2 cents (LMFAO!!!!): [B]The whole "American Exceptionalism"? Kinda like minivan driving parents with the "My Kid is an Honor Student" bumper sticker :P[/B][/QUOTE] Hahaha You know, there are some people that are very patriotic and there are some people that are very skeptical. So long as they're honest, we need 'em both.

11-27-2010, 03:23 PM	#20
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,329	[QUOTE=Come Back to NY;3836968]yup...and since 11/02 me and the other "teabaggers" are having the last laugh...:yes:[/QUOTE] Need to do more than win a few elections.