How high can Powe go?

[Flaming Mo]

Originally Posted by intothegreen

+1 Imagine if there was some speed and athleticism on this D?

Exactly. We have a lot of very strong, tough and hard nosed players. It is a great base and needed for a dominant defense but in the end we will also need some elite athletes.

Powe has everything you look for in a NT - immense strength, great size, low base and strong, thick legs. The position is just so important that if he looks you in the eye very late in the first round you strongly have to consider him. Pouha will only get more effective if he is spelled throughout the season and right now we also have no backup plan for him.

[bitonti]

1) i dont know if Powe is worth a top 100 pick (first 3 rounds) by any1

2) the Jets like this MTV kid Martin Teveseau they don't want to use high picks on a position they are doing a good job developing

3) everyone's written him off but Jenks probably gives it one more shot at the vet min.

[intothegreen]

Originally Posted by bitonti

1) i dont know if Powe is worth a top 100 pick (first 3 rounds) by any1

2) the Jets like this MTV kid Martin Teveseau they don't want to use high picks on a position they are doing a good job developing

3) everyone's written him off but Jenks probably gives it one more shot at the vet min.

Martin Teveseau is someone I'm intrigued about. I don't remember ever watching him play and would like to see what he's got, but if I am the Jets I'm still not relying on him quite yet.

[Much ado about Nothing]

Originally Posted by bitonti

1) i dont know if Powe is worth a top 100 pick (first 3 rounds) by any1

2) the Jets like this MTV kid Martin Teveseau they don't want to use high picks on a position they are doing a good job developing

3) everyone's written him off but Jenks probably gives it one more shot at the vet min.

1. I'd be shocked if Powe fell out of the first 100 picks.

2. Meh on Teveseau...just as it was meh on Kroul...even meh on Gilbert, though at least he's somewhat interesting.

[bitonti]

Originally Posted by Much ado about Nothing

1. I'd be shocked if Powe fell out of the first 100 picks.

2. Meh on Teveseau...just as it was meh on Kroul...even meh on Gilbert, though at least he's somewhat interesting.

there's no compelling reason to use a high pick on Powe. He's a run stuffer who had a mediocre senior year.

also should be noted the Jets did a decent job with marcus dixon at the end of the year. THe Jets are very good at developing DL they don't need to draft em high. Rex is not going to be slamming the table demanding a run stuffer. He's gonna ask for another cornerback if anything.

[Flaming Mo]

Originally Posted by bitonti

there's no compelling reason to use a high pick on Powe. He's a run stuffer who had a mediocre senior year.

also should be noted the Jets did a decent job with marcus dixon at the end of the year. THe Jets are very good at developing DL they don't need to draft em high. Rex is not going to be slamming the table demanding a run stuffer. He's gonna ask for another cornerback if anything.

All this you dont draft DL high because we can develop them is just stupid. The Jets might wanna do that but it has gotten us nowhere this year, our defense actually regressed. DeVito and Pouha have done a great job as run stuffers and considering how much they get. But you cant tell me that any top team is worried because we have these two upfront. Top defensive teams have top picks on their frontline, players they have invested in and not some developing guys. Again, its awesome to have the Pouhas of the world and they are valuable. But if you want to get better next year in the front seven then you dont say "oh we got this guy on the PS and this guy is solid"... yeah right, brilliant idea to plan like this and go into the season hanging your hopes of a pass rush and dominant front seven play on

a) guys like Teveseau who has never played a down in the NFL
b) a guy like Jenkins who has had season ending injuries two years in a row
c) guys like Gilbert and Dixon who havent seen much meaningful NFL action
d) a guy like Kroul who you praised but has looked horrible in the regular season

All these guys dont cost a lot so you keep them around, sure. And when they actually develop like DeVito, then you are doing backflips. But you are not basing your season and the potential of having the best defense in the NFL on unsigned free agents and role players. This is the recipe for desaster and if the Jets think this is the way to go, then I do not agree with them at all.

Everyone knows you need dominant players up front. Green Bay got Raji, NE has done it with Wilfork and all those guys, the Giants always invest high here, Baltimore got Ngata early. Right now this defense lacks this dominant defensive lineman and it shows. Our blitzes dont get home, QBs arent worried about the inside rush and we just cant push the pocket on passing downs.

I'm not saying Powe can be that kind of player, most likely not. But dismissing the entire idea of going DLine in round one is foolish...

[Much ado about Nothing]

Originally Posted by bitonti

there's no compelling reason to use a high pick on Powe. He's a run stuffer who had a mediocre senior year.

also should be noted the Jets did a decent job with marcus dixon at the end of the year. THe Jets are very good at developing DL they don't need to draft em high. Rex is not going to be slamming the table demanding a run stuffer. He's gonna ask for another cornerback if anything.

He's a really, really, really good run stuffer with upside against the pass.

I like Dixon...Marcus Dixon is not holding anyone back from drafting someone better.

Rex will always draft DBs, agreed. They're like RBs to him...he can never have enough healthy ones.

[Flaming Mo]

Originally Posted by Much ado about Nothing

He's a really, really, really good run stuffer with upside against the pass.

I like Dixon...Marcus Dixon is not holding anyone back from drafting someone better.

Rex will always draft DBs, agreed. They're like RBs to him...he can never have enough healthy ones.

I agree but at some point we have to realize that having three first round corners on our team is plenty enough... or better said, Rex should realize that...

[bitonti]

Originally Posted by Flaming Mo

But dismissing the entire idea of going DLine in round one is foolish...

i didn't dismiss the DL i dismissed powe or any other NT in the first 2 picks. (round 1 and round 3 at this point).

If Ellis leaves they need another 3-4 DE bell cow to replace him. But nose tackle is not a weakness at this point.

[Much ado about Nothing]

Originally Posted by bitonti

i didn't dismiss the DL i dismissed powe or any other NT in the first 2 picks. (round 1 and round 3 at this point).

If Ellis leaves they need another 3-4 DE bell cow to replace him. But nose tackle is not a weakness at this point.

You can't ignore how these guys are being used now...a guy who can play on a 3 man DL is a guy who can play on a 3 man DL...Raji was taken 9th and expected to be a straight NT....nope...he's played as much or more DE as he has played NT....Wilfork is a 6th or 7th year vet at NT...he took a ton of snaps at DE this year and has taken snaps there over the years....

Of course, if we were to do that I'd prefer taking someone 6'4"/6'5" like Ellis or Taylor, but Powe right now is probably the best prospect of the 3.

[Come Back to NY]

Originally Posted by Flaming Mo

All this you dont draft DL high because we can develop them is just stupid. The Jets might wanna do that but it has gotten us nowhere this year, our defense actually regressed. DeVito and Pouha have done a great job as run stuffers and considering how much they get. But you cant tell me that any top team is worried because we have these two upfront. Top defensive teams have top picks on their frontline, players they have invested in and not some developing guys. Again, its awesome to have the Pouhas of the world and they are valuable. But if you want to get better next year in the front seven then you dont say "oh we got this guy on the PS and this guy is solid"... yeah right, brilliant idea to plan like this and go into the season hanging your hopes of a pass rush and dominant front seven play on

a) guys like Teveseau who has never played a down in the NFL
b) a guy like Jenkins who has had season ending injuries two years in a row
c) guys like Gilbert and Dixon who havent seen much meaningful NFL action
d) a guy like Kroul who you praised but has looked horrible in the regular season

All these guys dont cost a lot so you keep them around, sure. And when they actually develop like DeVito, then you are doing backflips. But you are not basing your season and the potential of having the best defense in the NFL on unsigned free agents and role players. This is the recipe for desaster and if the Jets think this is the way to go, then I do not agree with them at all.

Everyone knows you need dominant players up front. Green Bay got Raji, NE has done it with Wilfork and all those guys, the Giants always invest high here, Baltimore got Ngata early. Right now this defense lacks this dominant defensive lineman and it shows. Our blitzes dont get home, QBs arent worried about the inside rush and we just cant push the pocket on passing downs.

I'm not saying Powe can be that kind of player, most likely not. But dismissing the entire idea of going DLine in round one is foolish...

it is absolutely foolish....you never pass up the opportunity to select a good d-lineman in the draft or you live to regret it...

Gilbert/Dixon/Kroul are expendable and easily replaceable....if you can upgrade the talent level on the d-line, do it....

[Much ado about Nothing]

Hey CB, I haven't heard anything on onea my favorites, Lawrence Guy, in a while.

Is he waiting until the 15th to make his decision? D'you think there's a chance he falls into the 3rd where guys like Hatcher and Canty went? Is the 2nd more likely?

What will teams make of the whole ADD and dyslexia thing?

[bitonti]

Originally Posted by Much ado about Nothing

Hey CB, I haven't heard anything on onea my favorites, Lawrence Guy, in a while.

im not CBNY but he declared.

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blo...sHaller/113418

and to be clear I believe it's very possible the Jets take a DL but they don't take a Nose tackle. Comparing Powe to Ngata is nutso. Even comparing him to wilfork, ok they take Wilfork off on 3rd down. We are talking about a 2 down player and those guys don't go very high.

Powe does one thing he's not in those guy's neighborhood. and again with all the juniors declaring this guy is gonna be fighting to get into the top 100.

[Much ado about Nothing]

Even comparing him to wilfork, ok they take Wilfork off on 3rd down.

Yeah, maybe 6 years ago...Wilfork is the Pats whole front 7 nowadays.

[Beerfish]

Like every other position out there, there are good picks and bad ones but most of the good to dominant 3-4 players, especially DE's were picked fairly high. Of course there are lower picked guys that turned out well and some touted guys that have done poorly.

Haloti Ngata: 1 - 12
Calais Campbell: 2 - 50
Darnell Docket: 3 - 64
Jamaal Williams: 2
BJ Raji: 1 - 9
Vince Wilfork: 1 - 21
Gerard Warren: 1 - 3
Shaun Ellis: 1 - 12
Richard Seymour: 1 - 6
Casey Hampton: 1 - 19

For me I'd never have a philosophy of "Don't draft such and such a position high because you can get them anywhere in the draft."

Two things point to a need to draft front seven players for the Jets for me this year.

1) Age: Ellis, Taylor, Jenkins getting up there in age.
2) Total production: Our front seven is very stout against the run, the odd time it gets a pass rush but we badly need more of a pass rush effort from the front seven. You can only get by with exotic blitzes and getting the majority of your sacks from ILBs or Secondary guys for so long. The Jets defense, already good would take a massive step up if they got a DE that can be fairly stout against the run but provide a rush or a strictly pass rushing OLB.

[Much ado about Nothing]

^^^ The two guys who didn't go in the first (Dockett and Campbell) were both guys who just fell out of the first round. Both got alot of love/hype before their falls. Campbell, at one point, was the #1 DE in his class.

Oh...forgot about Williams, but he was a long time ago....way back in the 90's. :0

[bitonti]

beerfish i agree with that breakdown and Cameron Heyward would probably be the perfect jets pick right now.

[Flaming Mo]

Originally Posted by bitonti

i didn't dismiss the DL i dismissed powe or any other NT in the first 2 picks. (round 1 and round 3 at this point).

If Ellis leaves they need another 3-4 DE bell cow to replace him. But nose tackle is not a weakness at this point.

The Jets are very good at developing DL they don't need to draft em high

That's what you wrote. If you meant NT you gotta be more specific...

[jeT.MAC]

I like the kid from Hampton University ...34 DE - Kendrick Ellis 6'5 335 lbs!!! Thats one Bigazz DE.. Put him on the outside with POUHA or KJ in the middle and Big Devito at the other DE...Im curious too see Shaun ELLIS get his weight up to 300+ lbs bc he would b a MONSTER playin at 305 lbs.!!!!!!! yes he would!!!!!!!

[TheMo]

Originally Posted by Untouchable

LOL

What is it with you defending these guys like Pouha and Devito like their great players or something?

Their best suited as rotational players, not starters.

We have enough blue-collar, overachievers. It's time to get some legit talent and youth up front.

They are really really good run stuffers. Good enough to even rank well in PFF almost solely on their run stuffing. That being said... I completely agree with you. Not only are we getting older but these guys are at there best in a rotation. You need versatile blue chippers who are just bust through make plays despite double teams. Crush the pocket on pass plays. Pouhas and Devitos are at their best either rotating in or being surrounded by more complete players. At that point their elite ability in one area is coveted and their big liability in other areas are non-issues.