ESPN debate - is Rex overrated?

Jerricho89 · 03-29-2011, 04:37 PM

[url]http://espn.go.com/nfl/hot[/url]

I don't understand Joyner's argument - does he not realize Rex has only been a head coach for two years? He's comparing him with coaches who have many years of experience.

Chupa · 03-29-2011, 04:38 PM

the fact that someone wrote that article is proof that he is underrated.

EM31 · 03-29-2011, 04:43 PM

Too many NFL analysts and too much offseason.

TokyoJetsFan · 03-29-2011, 04:44 PM

They would have had a much better debate if they argued Is ESPN overated?

Batmans A Scientist · 03-29-2011, 05:21 PM

I agree with Joyner's assessment. It's a weird argument because I would agree with both sides. I think it depends on how the average person "rates" Ryan as a coach.

It's funny, the most logical comparison in John Harbaugh.

They have identical regular season record through 2 seasons, both started with rookie QBs. I would argue that the Ravens have a more talented defense, while the Jets have a more talented offense (though I'd say Sanchez is still behind Flacco in terms of regular season growth).

Rex Ryan has been to two AFC championship games in his first 2 seasons vs. 1 for Harbaugh, and Harbaugh beat Ryan out for the job with the Ravens. Just seems like both teams got great coaches

I don't really see a good argument for one coach over the other. I would agree that Ryan is a "Good" coach and not a "great" coach until he gets to the Super Bowl.

Bearded_Achilles · 03-29-2011, 05:25 PM

[QUOTE=TokyoJetsFan;3990280]They would have had a much better debate if they argued Is ESPN overated?[/QUOTE]

yes

Mainejet · 03-29-2011, 05:44 PM

[QUOTE=Jerricho89;3990273][url]http://espn.go.com/nfl/hot[/url]

I don't understand Joyner's argument - does he not realize Rex has only been a head coach for two years? He's comparing him with coaches who have many years of experience.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you to the extent that Joyner's comparisons are poor at best. But in the end, he says he considers Ryan to be good and not great. What's so bad about that? I would consider every HC who has done well but still hasn't won the SB to be good, but not great. My personal belief is you can only be considered great when you win the SB. So as much as I would like to say Rex Ryan is a great HC, that really wouldn't be the truth until he wins a SB. But I also know it's coming. I have full faith In Rex Ryan's ability to take the Jets all the way. So eventually, probably next year we'll be calling Rex Ryan a great coach.

SMC · 03-29-2011, 06:00 PM

Joyner should have compared all those other HCs' 1st 2 seasons to Rex, not their whole careers. That's stupid.

Of the current HCs, only Tomlin has a better 1st 2 seasons than Rex.

Underrated? Overrated? Who knows. It's still early. I'd love to see what the Jets will do in yr 3.

Before this past season I wrote that year 2 would a pivitol determining factor in whether Rex is a sustainable good HC or not.

Why? Because good HCs have their teams improve over time. Flash in the pans like Mangini will have a good first year, fall down to earth, then rebound before falling again. It's tougher in yr 2 because expectations are higher and the team can't sneak up on anyone. Rex's yr 2 was better than his first. That is extremely promising. If the team improves in yr 3 then we may have something really special on our hands.

Rex still has issues with being a DC rather than HC, but he is adaptable and is one of 3 best defensive minds in all of the NFL (LeBaeau and Belichick being the other 2). That's invaluable.

Hopefully the Jets can improve the talent on D this year so Rex having to be a miracle worker isn't in the gameplan as it was the last 2 years.

sg3 · 03-29-2011, 06:10 PM

simple answer to this debate

NO

Rex is one of the best head coaches in the NFL and all Jet fans are or should be thrilled and ecstatic that he is OUR head coach

John_0515 · 03-29-2011, 06:20 PM

We're so quick to give credit to anyone else, and so quick to take it away from our own.

Joyner's assessment has one big flaw: Time as head coach.

If Rex never has another winning season, and continues to coach for another 10 years, is he still good? No. Cowher didn't win the Superbown until WAY after he started as a HC. Here is what Cowher has done in his first 2 seasons with the Steelers (92'-93'):

11-5
9-7

0-2 in the Playoffs. Sounds familiar right? Yeah, except Rex has 4 more playoff victories.

12 years later, Cowher wins the Superbowl. Was he just "good" until then?

Think about where this franchise came from, and where it is now and then tell everyone if Rex is good or great or whatever. Would BB have won a Superbowl here in NY? Not Mangini, Herm and Al Groh - not even the great Bill Parcells could do it.

Let's not pretend Rex is just "ok", and say what he's really done: Elevate and put a face on the franchise. The Jets have gone from "Oh, we're playing the Jets this week" to "FVCK, this week's a loss"

Jetdawgg · 03-29-2011, 06:55 PM

Rex has brought a fighting spirit to the NY Jets. That channel is almost unwatchable. I view it very briefly now.

sameoldjets · 03-29-2011, 07:14 PM

harbaugh hasn't had to put up with the likes of schitty. 'nuff said

[QUOTE=Batmans A Scientist;3990301]I agree with Joyner's assessment. It's a weird argument because I would agree with both sides. I think it depends on how the average person "rates" Ryan as a coach.

It's funny, the most logical comparison in John Harbaugh.

They have identical regular season record through 2 seasons, both started with rookie QBs. I would argue that the Ravens have a more talented defense, while the Jets have a more talented offense (though I'd say Sanchez is still behind Flacco in terms of regular season growth).

Rex Ryan has been to two AFC championship games in his first 2 seasons vs. 1 for Harbaugh, and Harbaugh beat Ryan out for the job with the Ravens. Just seems like both teams got great coaches

I don't really see a good argument for one coach over the other. I would agree that Ryan is a "Good" coach and not a "great" coach until he gets to the Super Bowl.[/QUOTE]

sameoldjets · 03-29-2011, 07:17 PM

the thing too is that cowher didn't win squat until he finally got a qb. and just how he get roethlisberger? by finishing the draft season with a 5-11 record.

considering the historical record of the jets versus just about any other team, ryan is doing quite well and if sanchez is finally freed of schitty we will see some really good teams.

[QUOTE=John_0515;3990374]We're so quick to give credit to anyone else, and so quick to take it away from our own.

Joyner's assessment has one big flaw: Time as head coach.

If Rex never has another winning season, and continues to coach for another 10 years, is he still good? No. Cowher didn't win the Superbown until WAY after he started as a HC. Here is what Cowher has done in his first 2 seasons with the Steelers (92'-93'):

11-5
9-7

0-2 in the Playoffs. Sounds familiar right? Yeah, except Rex has 4 more playoff victories.

12 years later, Cowher wins the Superbowl. Was he just "good" until then?

Think about where this franchise came from, and where it is now and then tell everyone if Rex is good or great or whatever. Would BB have won a Superbowl here in NY? Not Mangini, Herm and Al Groh - not even the great Bill Parcells could do it.

Let's not pretend Rex is just "ok", and say what he's really done: Elevate and put a face on the franchise. The Jets have gone from "Oh, we're playing the Jets this week" to "FVCK, this week's a loss"[/QUOTE]

Mainejet · 03-29-2011, 07:24 PM

[QUOTE=sg3;3990371]simple answer to this debate

NO

Rex is one of the best head coaches in the NFL and all Jet fans are or should be thrilled and ecstatic that he is OUR head coach[/QUOTE]

Nobody said we weren't thrilled and ecstatic to have Rex as our HC. But he's still just a good as opposed to a great HC at this juncture.

jetgreen13 · 03-29-2011, 10:26 PM

i don't remember ever reading any of joyner's work, so i can't tell if he's playing off season devil's advocate, or perhaps he's just not a fan of rex's style..

either way, the idea that rex is overrated is horse spit..

hunter121 · 03-29-2011, 10:49 PM

I agree with Joyner's assessment.
[img]http://www.primeaffiliate.com/track/images/10.jpg[/img][img]http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx229/j3iR/wind/jeromssummer_flickr_photos_848.gif[/img]

HitSomeone41 · 03-30-2011, 12:32 AM

Stupidest article I have NEVER read.

The whole thing is absurd.

:rolleyes:
Lets face it he is no Barry Switzer.....never mind that Switzer totally inherited a HOF QB, RB and WR in Dallas.

Tyler Durden · 03-30-2011, 12:37 AM

ESPN is so close to to being to sports what MTV is to music...

FreemanMC · 03-30-2011, 01:26 AM

[QUOTE=Batmans A Scientist;3990301]I agree with Joyner's assessment. It's a weird argument because I would agree with both sides. I think it depends on how the average person "rates" Ryan as a coach.

It's funny, the most logical comparison in John Harbaugh.

They have identical regular season record through 2 seasons, both started with rookie QBs. I would argue that the Ravens have a more talented defense, while the Jets have a more talented offense (though I'd say Sanchez is still behind Flacco in terms of regular season growth).

Rex Ryan has been to two AFC championship games in his first 2 seasons vs. 1 for Harbaugh, and Harbaugh beat Ryan out for the job with the Ravens. Just seems like both teams got great coaches

I don't really see a good argument for one coach over the other. I would agree that Ryan is a "Good" coach and not a "great" coach until he gets to the Super Bowl.[/QUOTE]

Excellent point ... here's the thing -- "underrated/overrated" is completely subjective. In other words, the context always has to be clearly defined before we can make a judgment.
For example, if someone told me that Rex Ryan is as good as Bill Belichick, I would say Ryan's overrated. Why? Because of the context. If someone told me Ryan wasn't as good as Tony Sparano, I'd say Ryan's underrated. Again, because of the context.
The fact is, Rex Ryan is a good coach - to dispute that would be stupid - anything else is just speculation.

lamont_jordan_rules · 03-30-2011, 08:21 AM

[QUOTE=Batmans A Scientist;3990301]I would agree that Ryan is a "Good" coach and not a "great" coach until he gets to the Super Bowl.[/QUOTE]

... hard to blame the coach for having his defenders in the right positions but they just couldn't tackle worth a $h*t in that 1st half in pitt ...

... if he makes it to the dance this year but loses, the naysayers will still argue this same line ...

... bottom line is he's a coach who's had better results in his 1st 2 season's than almost any other nfl coach ... [B][U][FONT="Arial Black"][SIZE="7"][COLOR="Red"]EVER!!!!![/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/U][/B]

... he's a coach who has had a great 1st 2 season's (esp. with a rookie qb) ... certainly only time will tell if he can continue that ... but he's been great his first 2 years ...

l_j_r

03-29-2011, 04:37 PM	#1
Jerricho89 Veteran Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,348	ESPN debate - is Rex overrated? [url]http://espn.go.com/nfl/hot[/url] I don't understand Joyner's argument - does he not realize Rex has only been a head coach for two years? He's comparing him with coaches who have many years of experience.

03-29-2011, 06:20 PM	#10
John_0515 Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 21,217	We're so quick to give credit to anyone else, and so quick to take it away from our own. Joyner's assessment has one big flaw: Time as head coach. If Rex never has another winning season, and continues to coach for another 10 years, is he still good? No. Cowher didn't win the Superbown until WAY after he started as a HC. Here is what Cowher has done in his first 2 seasons with the Steelers (92'-93'): 11-5 9-7 0-2 in the Playoffs. Sounds familiar right? Yeah, except Rex has 4 more playoff victories. 12 years later, Cowher wins the Superbowl. Was he just "good" until then? Think about where this franchise came from, and where it is now and then tell everyone if Rex is good or great or whatever. Would BB have won a Superbowl here in NY? Not Mangini, Herm and Al Groh - not even the great Bill Parcells could do it. Let's not pretend Rex is just "ok", and say what he's really done: Elevate and put a face on the franchise. The Jets have gone from "Oh, we're playing the Jets this week" to "FVCK, this week's a loss" Last edited by John_0515; 03-29-2011 at 06:24 PM.

03-29-2011, 04:38 PM	#2
Chupa All League Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 3,282	the fact that someone wrote that article is proof that he is underrated.

03-29-2011, 04:43 PM	#3
EM31 All Pro Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Oceanside, Long Island Posts: 9,302	Too many NFL analysts and too much offseason.

03-29-2011, 04:44 PM	#4
TokyoJetsFan Is keeping a lookout for stolen ipad2's Veteran Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,257	They would have had a much better debate if they argued Is ESPN overated?

03-29-2011, 05:21 PM	#5
Batmans A Scientist Watching the American East Championship All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Manhattan, NY Posts: 8,554	I agree with Joyner's assessment. It's a weird argument because I would agree with both sides. I think it depends on how the average person "rates" Ryan as a coach. It's funny, the most logical comparison in John Harbaugh. They have identical regular season record through 2 seasons, both started with rookie QBs. I would argue that the Ravens have a more talented defense, while the Jets have a more talented offense (though I'd say Sanchez is still behind Flacco in terms of regular season growth). Rex Ryan has been to two AFC championship games in his first 2 seasons vs. 1 for Harbaugh, and Harbaugh beat Ryan out for the job with the Ravens. Just seems like both teams got great coaches I don't really see a good argument for one coach over the other. I would agree that Ryan is a "Good" coach and not a "great" coach until he gets to the Super Bowl.

03-29-2011, 05:25 PM	#6
Bearded_Achilles wanna get out of my way?? All Pro Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Hades Posts: 2,296	[QUOTE=TokyoJetsFan;3990280]They would have had a much better debate if they argued Is ESPN overated?[/QUOTE] yes

03-29-2011, 05:44 PM	#7
Mainejet impatiently waiting for the Jets to win the SB Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 12,056	[QUOTE=Jerricho89;3990273][url]http://espn.go.com/nfl/hot[/url] I don't understand Joyner's argument - does he not realize Rex has only been a head coach for two years? He's comparing him with coaches who have many years of experience.[/QUOTE] I agree with you to the extent that Joyner's comparisons are poor at best. But in the end, he says he considers Ryan to be good and not great. What's so bad about that? I would consider every HC who has done well but still hasn't won the SB to be good, but not great. My personal belief is you can only be considered great when you win the SB. So as much as I would like to say Rex Ryan is a great HC, that really wouldn't be the truth until he wins a SB. But I also know it's coming. I have full faith In Rex Ryan's ability to take the Jets all the way. So eventually, probably next year we'll be calling Rex Ryan a great coach.

03-29-2011, 06:00 PM	#8
SMC Day-to-day Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 22,043	Joyner should have compared all those other HCs' 1st 2 seasons to Rex, not their whole careers. That's stupid. Of the current HCs, only Tomlin has a better 1st 2 seasons than Rex. Underrated? Overrated? Who knows. It's still early. I'd love to see what the Jets will do in yr 3. Before this past season I wrote that year 2 would a pivitol determining factor in whether Rex is a sustainable good HC or not. Why? Because good HCs have their teams improve over time. Flash in the pans like Mangini will have a good first year, fall down to earth, then rebound before falling again. It's tougher in yr 2 because expectations are higher and the team can't sneak up on anyone. Rex's yr 2 was better than his first. That is extremely promising. If the team improves in yr 3 then we may have something really special on our hands. Rex still has issues with being a DC rather than HC, but he is adaptable and is one of 3 best defensive minds in all of the NFL (LeBaeau and Belichick being the other 2). That's invaluable. Hopefully the Jets can improve the talent on D this year so Rex having to be a miracle worker isn't in the gameplan as it was the last 2 years.

03-29-2011, 06:10 PM	#9
sg3 REX AND THE I-MAN - BACK ON TRACK Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The Big Apple, USA Posts: 20,890	simple answer to this debate NO Rex is one of the best head coaches in the NFL and all Jet fans are or should be thrilled and ecstatic that he is OUR head coach

03-29-2011, 06:55 PM	#11
Jetdawgg All Pro Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 6,714	Rex has brought a fighting spirit to the NY Jets. That channel is almost unwatchable. I view it very briefly now.

03-29-2011, 07:14 PM	#12
sameoldjets All Pro Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,497	harbaugh hasn't had to put up with the likes of schitty. 'nuff said [QUOTE=Batmans A Scientist;3990301]I agree with Joyner's assessment. It's a weird argument because I would agree with both sides. I think it depends on how the average person "rates" Ryan as a coach. It's funny, the most logical comparison in John Harbaugh. They have identical regular season record through 2 seasons, both started with rookie QBs. I would argue that the Ravens have a more talented defense, while the Jets have a more talented offense (though I'd say Sanchez is still behind Flacco in terms of regular season growth). Rex Ryan has been to two AFC championship games in his first 2 seasons vs. 1 for Harbaugh, and Harbaugh beat Ryan out for the job with the Ravens. Just seems like both teams got great coaches I don't really see a good argument for one coach over the other. I would agree that Ryan is a "Good" coach and not a "great" coach until he gets to the Super Bowl.[/QUOTE]

03-29-2011, 07:17 PM	#13
sameoldjets All Pro Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,497	the thing too is that cowher didn't win squat until he finally got a qb. and just how he get roethlisberger? by finishing the draft season with a 5-11 record. considering the historical record of the jets versus just about any other team, ryan is doing quite well and if sanchez is finally freed of schitty we will see some really good teams. [QUOTE=John_0515;3990374]We're so quick to give credit to anyone else, and so quick to take it away from our own. Joyner's assessment has one big flaw: Time as head coach. If Rex never has another winning season, and continues to coach for another 10 years, is he still good? No. Cowher didn't win the Superbown until WAY after he started as a HC. Here is what Cowher has done in his first 2 seasons with the Steelers (92'-93'): 11-5 9-7 0-2 in the Playoffs. Sounds familiar right? Yeah, except Rex has 4 more playoff victories. 12 years later, Cowher wins the Superbowl. Was he just "good" until then? Think about where this franchise came from, and where it is now and then tell everyone if Rex is good or great or whatever. Would BB have won a Superbowl here in NY? Not Mangini, Herm and Al Groh - not even the great Bill Parcells could do it. Let's not pretend Rex is just "ok", and say what he's really done: Elevate and put a face on the franchise. The Jets have gone from "Oh, we're playing the Jets this week" to "FVCK, this week's a loss"[/QUOTE]

03-29-2011, 07:24 PM	#14
Mainejet impatiently waiting for the Jets to win the SB Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 12,056	[QUOTE=sg3;3990371]simple answer to this debate NO Rex is one of the best head coaches in the NFL and all Jet fans are or should be thrilled and ecstatic that he is OUR head coach[/QUOTE] Nobody said we weren't thrilled and ecstatic to have Rex as our HC. But he's still just a good as opposed to a great HC at this juncture.

03-29-2011, 10:26 PM	#15
jetgreen13 Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: transplanted new yorker in maryland Posts: 4,438	i don't remember ever reading any of joyner's work, so i can't tell if he's playing off season devil's advocate, or perhaps he's just not a fan of rex's style.. either way, the idea that rex is overrated is horse spit..

03-29-2011, 10:49 PM	#16
hunter121 Banned Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 15	I agree with Joyner's assessment. [img]http://www.primeaffiliate.com/track/images/10.jpg[/img][img]http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx229/j3iR/wind/jeromssummer_flickr_photos_848.gif[/img]

03-30-2011, 12:32 AM	#17
HitSomeone41 is watching The First 48.... All Pro Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Lima Zulu Posts: 6,068	Stupidest article I have NEVER read. The whole thing is absurd. :rolleyes: Lets face it he is no Barry Switzer.....never mind that Switzer totally inherited a HOF QB, RB and WR in Dallas.

03-30-2011, 12:37 AM	#18
Tyler Durden Banned Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 31,171	ESPN is so close to to being to sports what MTV is to music...

03-30-2011, 01:26 AM	#19
FreemanMC thinking Sanchez may be our Moses Rookie Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 570	[QUOTE=Batmans A Scientist;3990301]I agree with Joyner's assessment. It's a weird argument because I would agree with both sides. I think it depends on how the average person "rates" Ryan as a coach. It's funny, the most logical comparison in John Harbaugh. They have identical regular season record through 2 seasons, both started with rookie QBs. I would argue that the Ravens have a more talented defense, while the Jets have a more talented offense (though I'd say Sanchez is still behind Flacco in terms of regular season growth). Rex Ryan has been to two AFC championship games in his first 2 seasons vs. 1 for Harbaugh, and Harbaugh beat Ryan out for the job with the Ravens. Just seems like both teams got great coaches I don't really see a good argument for one coach over the other. I would agree that Ryan is a "Good" coach and not a "great" coach until he gets to the Super Bowl.[/QUOTE] Excellent point ... here's the thing -- "underrated/overrated" is completely subjective. In other words, the context always has to be clearly defined before we can make a judgment. For example, if someone told me that Rex Ryan is as good as Bill Belichick, I would say Ryan's overrated. Why? Because of the context. If someone told me Ryan wasn't as good as Tony Sparano, I'd say Ryan's underrated. Again, because of the context. The fact is, Rex Ryan is a good coach - to dispute that would be stupid - anything else is just speculation.

03-30-2011, 08:21 AM	#20
lamont_jordan_rules Can't Wait To See Marty Mornhinweg's Offense! Hall of Fame Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Atlanta via NJ Posts: 6,304	[QUOTE=Batmans A Scientist;3990301]I would agree that Ryan is a "Good" coach and not a "great" coach until he gets to the Super Bowl.[/QUOTE] ... hard to blame the coach for having his defenders in the right positions but they just couldn't tackle worth a $h*t in that 1st half in pitt ... ... if he makes it to the dance this year but loses, the naysayers will still argue this same line ... ... bottom line is he's a coach who's had better results in his 1st 2 season's than almost any other nfl coach ... [B][U][FONT="Arial Black"][SIZE="7"][COLOR="Red"]EVER!!!!![/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/U][/B] ... he's a coach who has had a great 1st 2 season's (esp. with a rookie qb) ... certainly only time will tell if he can continue that ... but he's been great his first 2 years ... l_j_r