DE to OLB Converts

eaglenj · 04-07-2011, 11:10 AM

With all the talk of Justin Houston, Brooks Reed, Kerrigan (who I think would be a DE for us, but still), Von Miller, etc....I just wanted to look back at the past few years and see how many college DEs were able to make the transition to 3-4 OLB successfully.

Obviously Woodley stands out as he was a DE at Michigan, but who are some other names that made it....Pace was a college DE and it took him quite a bit of time to adjust, but he has been successful for us.

Seems to me the busts far outweigh the success stories and while that could easily be due to talent/drive/etc (all things Gholston lacked) it seems to me taking a player that needs to transition increases the risk of the pick failing.

bitonti · 04-07-2011, 11:35 AM

people say Gholston lacked talent and drive... i think that's untrue. How can a guy be in that good shape physically and lack drive? Watch his career, if he ends up in a 4-3 he's gonna be in the league another 5-8 years. Nothing spectacular but he will play and do ok.

I do believe that making that transition from DE to OLB is very difficult and Gholston is an example of a player that flat out doesn't fit in this defense. It does take about 3-5 years for these guys to stand up and learn to cover... if they ever do.

this is a troubling thing for players like Quinn, Kerrigan and Houston to be asked to stand up. If i Were Ryan Kerrigan's agent I'd hope he goes to a 4-3 team. I think Reed can do it, he looked pretty good in drills. I also think Sheard is a good enough athlete to do it but again it will take 3 years before we know for sure.

that's the attraction of akeem ayers by the way, he is big enough for 3-4 olb and doesn't have to learn how to play linebacker. I don't love this player but he's a darkhorse possibly for the pick.

Beerfish · 04-07-2011, 12:24 PM

Suggs, Wimbley, Ware, Hali, Vrabel, Pace, Woodley, Orakpo, Merriman, Dummervill

augustiniak · 04-07-2011, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

that's the attraction of akeem ayers by the way, he is big enough for 3-4 olb and doesn't have to learn how to play linebacker. I don't love this player but he's a darkhorse possibly for the pick.

i don't think he's a dark horse - i think he's the favorite. he's perfect for rex's system. he can blitz and cover. rex could put him anywhere, he can cover TEs, RBs and blitz. i'm not saying he's blazing fast and can cover anyone, but he's fluid enough to do it. remember how they beat the pats in the playoffs - not with blitzing but by having fluid athletes cover everyone. that's why gholston was useless for rex, he had no prayer of covering anyone. he could have stuck him in there to bull rush, but that wouldn't have generated enough qb pressure to justify having a smaller DE in there who could only do 1 thing.

bitonti · 04-07-2011, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by augustiniak

i don't think he's a dark horse - i think he's the favorite. he's perfect for rex's system. he can blitz and cover. rex could put him anywhere, he can cover TEs, RBs and blitz. i'm not saying he's blazing fast and can cover anyone, but he's fluid enough to do it. remember how they beat the pats in the playoffs - not with blitzing but by having fluid athletes cover everyone. that's why gholston was useless for rex, he had no prayer of covering anyone. he could have stuck him in there to bull rush, but that wouldn't have generated enough qb pressure to justify having a smaller DE in there who could only do 1 thing.

going on workout numbers i dont know how gholston running a 4.65 at 270 isn't fluid but Ayers running a 4.7 at 260 is fluid. They say teams like the Chargers love Ayers... for their 2nd round pick at 61. 30 might just be too high for a guy with those workout attributes.

augustiniak · 04-07-2011, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

going on workout numbers i dont know how gholston running a 4.65 at 270 isn't fluid but Ayers running a 4.7 at 260 is fluid. They say teams like the Chargers love Ayers... for their 2nd round pick at 61. 30 might just be too high for a guy with those workout attributes.

since when did a 40 yard dash reflect one's agility?

eaglenj · 04-07-2011, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by augustiniak

i don't think he's a dark horse - i think he's the favorite. he's perfect for rex's system. he can blitz and cover. rex could put him anywhere, he can cover TEs, RBs and blitz. i'm not saying he's blazing fast and can cover anyone, but he's fluid enough to do it. remember how they beat the pats in the playoffs - not with blitzing but by having fluid athletes cover everyone. that's why gholston was useless for rex, he had no prayer of covering anyone. he could have stuck him in there to bull rush, but that wouldn't have generated enough qb pressure to justify having a smaller DE in there who could only do 1 thing.

I agree completely, Id love ayers to be the pick.

First off the versatility is big for our defense, and Ayers has a ton of experience playing in coverage and playing the run, plus he has the athletic ability to blitz.

In our defense he wouldnt be asked to line up and beat an OT one-on-one (more of the pace role). He would be more of a blitzer coming from different spots which i think he is perfect for.

Lastly, its so interesting to read things like kiper saying "his film looks great, but he didnt run well, so teams are moving him down." Last I checked being a good football player is more important then being good at track.

chirorob · 04-07-2011, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

going on workout numbers i dont know how gholston running a 4.65 at 270 isn't fluid but Ayers running a 4.7 at 260 is fluid. They say teams like the Chargers love Ayers... for their 2nd round pick at 61. 30 might just be too high for a guy with those workout attributes.

Didnt' Suggs only run a 4.7?

eaglenj · 04-07-2011, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chirorob

Didnt' Suggs only run a 4.7?

Suggs is 100% a defensive end, he really cant be classified as an OLB.

Dumerville too has strictly been a 4-3 DE, im pretty sure the only year denver ran a 3-4 was this season, and he was out the whole year.

bitonti · 04-07-2011, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chirorob

Didnt' Suggs only run a 4.7?

yeah suggs also had like 40 career sacks.

note im not saying ayers stinks but i question his value as a first round athlete.

that being said he's still among the 6 or 7 names I have on the jets "short list" i think he's very much in consideration... and if Rex likes him I'll find a way to like him too.

crasherino · 04-07-2011, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

yeah suggs also had like 40 career sacks.

note im not saying ayers stinks but i question his value as a first round athlete.

that being said he's still among the 6 or 7 names I have on the jets "short list" i think he's very much in consideration... and if Rex likes him I'll find a way to like him too.

You seem to not dig ayers all that much (at least at #30), but you have high praise for sheard.....if the 30th pick comes around and there's no trade down option, are you pulling the trigger for sheard over ayers?

augustiniak · 04-07-2011, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crasherino

You seem to not dig ayers all that much (at least at #30), but you have high praise for sheard.....if the 30th pick comes around and there's no trade down option, are you pulling the trigger for sheard over ayers?

is sheard big enough for DE in a traditional 3-4?

crasherino · 04-07-2011, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by augustiniak

is sheard big enough for DE in a traditional 3-4?

I think he'd convert to an OLB here

Come Back to NY · 04-07-2011, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chirorob

Didnt' Suggs only run a 4.7?

slower- couldn't break 4.9; which drives home your point...

bitonti · 04-07-2011, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crasherino

You seem to not dig ayers all that much (at least at #30), but you have high praise for sheard.....if the 30th pick comes around and there's no trade down option, are you pulling the trigger for sheard over ayers?

i would... Sheard sacks > Ayers coverage.
even if Ayers becomes a better player I will never criticize the front office for trying to get a pass rusher.

Come Back to NY · 04-07-2011, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

going on workout numbers i dont know how gholston running a 4.65 at 270 isn't fluid but Ayers running a 4.7 at 260 is fluid. They say teams like the Chargers love Ayers... for their 2nd round pick at 61. 30 might just be too high for a guy with those workout attributes.

lol- link???

then i'll link to plenty of legitimate sources that grade Brooks Reed as a third round choice right now....

C Mart · 04-07-2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by augustiniak

is sheard big enough for DE in a traditional 3-4?

Im seeing him listed in the 6'4 260-265 range and as a DE in a 4-3 or OLB in a 3-4...

Come Back to NY · 04-07-2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

i would... Sheard sacks > Ayers coverage.
even if Ayers becomes a better player I will never criticize the front office for trying to get a pass rusher.

based on what formula???? 9.5 sacks, the bulk of which came when Greg Romeus was on the other side of the line getting most of the attention, equates to ??? in coverage???

Come Back to NY · 04-07-2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C Mart

Im seeing him listed in the 6'4 260-265 range and as a DE in a 4-3 or OLB in a 3-4...

Sheard's 6-3/254lbs....

C Mart · 04-07-2011, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Come Back to NY

Sheard's 6-3/254lbs....

Thanks..Definitely not a DE in a traditional 3-4 then..And if I remember you aren't as high on him as some others..

04-07-2011, 11:10 AM	#1
eaglenj All League Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,844	DE to OLB Converts With all the talk of Justin Houston, Brooks Reed, Kerrigan (who I think would be a DE for us, but still), Von Miller, etc....I just wanted to look back at the past few years and see how many college DEs were able to make the transition to 3-4 OLB successfully. Obviously Woodley stands out as he was a DE at Michigan, but who are some other names that made it....Pace was a college DE and it took him quite a bit of time to adjust, but he has been successful for us. Seems to me the busts far outweigh the success stories and while that could easily be due to talent/drive/etc (all things Gholston lacked) it seems to me taking a player that needs to transition increases the risk of the pick failing.

04-07-2011, 11:35 AM	#2
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	people say Gholston lacked talent and drive... i think that's untrue. How can a guy be in that good shape physically and lack drive? Watch his career, if he ends up in a 4-3 he's gonna be in the league another 5-8 years. Nothing spectacular but he will play and do ok. I do believe that making that transition from DE to OLB is very difficult and Gholston is an example of a player that flat out doesn't fit in this defense. It does take about 3-5 years for these guys to stand up and learn to cover... if they ever do. this is a troubling thing for players like Quinn, Kerrigan and Houston to be asked to stand up. If i Were Ryan Kerrigan's agent I'd hope he goes to a 4-3 team. I think Reed can do it, he looked pretty good in drills. I also think Sheard is a good enough athlete to do it but again it will take 3 years before we know for sure. that's the attraction of akeem ayers by the way, he is big enough for 3-4 olb and doesn't have to learn how to play linebacker. I don't love this player but he's a darkhorse possibly for the pick. Last edited by bitonti; 04-07-2011 at 11:41 AM.

04-07-2011, 12:24 PM	#3
Beerfish Hall Of Fame Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 19,090	Suggs, Wimbley, Ware, Hali, Vrabel, Pace, Woodley, Orakpo, Merriman, Dummervill