Waterboarding WORKS

[Tucker134]

just sayin...any hard line liberal will still try to refute it, but "enhanced interrogation" got the intelligence wheels in motion that led to our Seals putting 2 kill shots in Bin Laden's brain. Why in the world we would give 2 sh*ts about the civil rights of fargin terrorists is beyond me...

[DeanPatsFan]

:clapper: :clapper: :clapper: :clapper:

Water boarding works, but you will never get libs with egg on their faces to admit it.....

[bitonti]

I was listening to a radio interview with veterans of WWII... one of the men was in a German POW camp. and they asked him how did they treat you?

and the veteran replied "like an officer and a gentleman. there was the geneva convention."

here's the problem with this technique... even if it works (which there are dubious claims) it disregards the Geneva convention and opens our troops and operatives up to similar tactics.

there is a morality in war. We can't just disregard all the rules. (even if the other side does so)

we are the #1 armed forces in the world we shouldn't re-write the field manual to allow torture.

right wingers claim to love the troops more than everyone else. Opening our men up to torture tactics seems like a bad long term quality of life decision

***

if the information gathered by water boarding was so great why did it take so long to track down OBL?

it's my understanding they confirmed the alias of a courier through those techniques and figured out he might be important.

they didn't get his real name. they didn't get a location. it was a germ of intel... that they may or may not have gotten.

to get from there to OBL in 2011 getting gunned down by Navy seals is a very long road.

[DeanPatsFan]

[QUOTE=bitonti;4024073]

here's the problem with this technique... even if it works (which there are dubious claims) it disregards the Geneva convention and opens our troops and operatives up to similar tactics.

[/QUOTE]

It works... here's a link stating so from a source even a lib can believe... the official Barack Obama News Network....

[url]http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/42880435/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/[/url]


As for your Geneva Convention bullsh*t, there has never been a war in which American POW's were not abused and held to Geneva Convention standards.... EVER.

[southparkcpa]

[QUOTE=bitonti;4024073]I was listening to a radio interview with veterans of WWII... one of the men was in a German POW camp. and they asked him how did they treat you?

and the veteran replied "like an officer and a gentleman. there was the geneva convention."

here's the problem with this technique... even if it works (which there are dubious claims) it disregards the Geneva convention and opens our troops and operatives up to similar tactics.

[/QUOTE]

Please read the Geneva convention doc's and tell us what parts were adhered to during 911 and numerous other terrorist attacks. The doc is over 60 years old and never anticipated terrorism.

[PatriotReign]

Our "torture" involves pouring water over a wet towel to simulate drowning. The other countries tend to be a tad more aggressive and the resulting physical impairments are more permanent (assuming they don't die).

I'd be the first one protesting for enhanced interrogation to stop if I thought it would be reciprocated but sadly, this is the real world not Fantasy Island. Countries that torture will STILL torture REGARDLESS if the US does or doesn't. It's like Al Qaeda vowing to kill Americans in revenge for killing OBL. They'd want to kill us whether OBL was put up at the Ritz or suffocated with a pulled pork sandwich.

Can you imagine an Al Qaeda terrorist saying "Oh wait, we won't decapitate this Infidel hostage on You Tube because the US doesn't waterboard anymore".:rolleyes:

I don't want us to "be better" than the enemy. I want them to know we will treat their brethren in kind since they are incapable/unwilling to treat us 'infidels' in a humane fashion.

[JetsFan2012]

I'm inclined to agree with the OP. Even if water boarding doesn't "work", **** these guys. Do it anyway. These are no traditional armies from civilized societies -- they are cowardly religious fanatics who value death more than life. And if you think water boarding is the worst thing this country has done or continues to do after 40 years of clandestine CIA operations, I wish I lived under the same rock you do.

Bit, to cite WWII as the hallmark of gentlemanly fighting is ridiculous. In order to follow that example we'd have to ignore the internment camps here in the US and a little thing known as the Holocaust.

I just don't view water boarding high up on the list of egregious offenses ever perpetuated by this country.

[Phoenixx]

[QUOTE=bitonti;4024073]if the information gathered by water boarding was so great why did it take so long to track down OBL?

it's my understanding they confirmed the alias of a courier through those techniques and figured out he might be important.

they didn't get his real name. they didn't get a location. it was a germ of intel... that they may or may not have gotten.

to get from there to OBL in 2011 getting gunned down by Navy seals is a very long road.[/QUOTE]

Seems you are OK with Waterboarding if you get the needed results sooner rather than later.

So we are agreeing in principle...just arguing degrees.

Good to know.

[MACPAC]

[QUOTE=PatriotReign;4024131]Our "torture" involves pouring water over a wet towel to simulate drowning. The other countries tend to be a tad more aggressive and the resulting physical impairments are more permanent (assuming they don't die).

I'd be the first one protesting for enhanced interrogation to stop if I thought it would be reciprocated but sadly, this is the real world not Fantasy Island. Countries that torture will STILL torture REGARDLESS if the US does or doesn't. It's like Al Qaeda vowing to kill Americans in revenge for killing OBL. They'd want to kill us whether OBL was put up at the Ritz or suffocated with a pulled pork sandwich.

Can you imagine an Al Qaeda terrorist saying "Oh wait, we won't decapitate this Infidel hostage on You Tube because the US doesn't waterboard anymore".:rolleyes:

I don't want us to "be better" than the enemy. I want them to know we will treat their brethren in kind since they are incapable/unwilling to treat us 'infidels' in a humane fashion.[/QUOTE]


Water boarding does involve covering the face with a cloth while the prisoner is placed on his back and unable to move his hands. Water is then poured over the nose and mouth area. This creates the sensation that the prisoner is drowning.

It can cause extreme pain, lung damage and brain damage from oxygen deprivation. Broken bones often result as the prisoner tries to free himself from his binds. If pushed to far death is know to have happened during water boarding. Psychological damage can result and last for years.

While I am all for taking down the filth of our society, I would be careful as we certainly would not like to hear about a few Navy Seals being water boarded and a responce from those doing the torture "if its ok for you, its ok for us" Sometimes something like this can bite you in the a$$.

[PatriotReign]

[QUOTE=MACPAC;4024170]Water boarding does involve covering the face with a cloth while the prisoner is placed on his back and unable to move his hands. Water is then poured over the nose and mouth area. This creates the sensation that the prisoner is drowning.

It can cause extreme pain, lung damage and brain damage from oxygen deprivation. Broken bones often result as the prisoner tries to free himself from his binds. If pushed to far death is know to have happened during water boarding. Psychological damage can result and last for years.

While I am all for taking down the filth of our society, I would be careful as we certainly would not like to hear about a few Navy Seals being water boarded and a responce from those doing the torture "if its ok for you, its ok for us" Sometimes something like this can bite you in the a$$.[/QUOTE]

Point taken but again Muslim Extremists don't care what we do- they will continue to blow up men, women and children. There is NO humane code they will honor or abide by. Al Qaeda is not a sovereign civilized "country" and does not give a pig's ass about the Geneva convention. They simply want to kill and maim as many innocents as possible. Their butchery will continue whether we water board or give detainees foot rubs and reach arounds.

[MACPAC]

[QUOTE=PatriotReign;4024246]Point taken but again Muslim Extremists don't care what we do- they will continue to blow up men, women and children. There is NO humane code they will honor or abide by. Al Qaeda is not a sovereign civilized "country" and does not give a pig's ass about the Geneva convention. They simply want to kill and maim as many innocents as possible. Their butchery will continue whether we water board or give detainees foot rubs and reach arounds.[/QUOTE]


So we only do this to Muslim Extremists?

If some where down the road the U.S. finds itself in a war with Iran or N.Korea, Canada, :D etc Do you water board them?

Can of worms.

[long island leprechaun]

I'm not clear at all why this claim is being put forward. Waterboarding, as well as other enhanced interrogation procedures have not been found to be consistently successful or reliable. What is ironic is that other psychological techniques have indeed been quite useful.... ones that are just the opposite of torture... befriending, bribing, offering false protection, etc. See below re waterboarding:

[URL]http://www.rgj.com/article/20110508/NEWS20/105080365/Waterboarding-didn-t-help-find-bin-Laden?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CLocal%20News%7Cp[/URL]

[DeanPatsFan]

[QUOTE=MACPAC;4024292]So we only do this to Muslim Extremists?

If some where down the road the U.S. finds itself in a war with Iran or N.Korea, Canada, :D etc Do you water board them?

Can of worms.[/QUOTE]

War with Canada? LMAO

Jug Head could send the Boy Scouts up there to conquer Canada......

[Winstonbiggs]

[QUOTE=Tucker134;4024034]just sayin...any hard line liberal will still try to refute it, but "enhanced interrogation" got the intelligence wheels in motion that led to our Seals putting 2 kill shots in Bin Laden's brain. Why in the world we would give 2 sh*ts about the civil rights of fargin terrorists is beyond me...[/QUOTE]

At what cost?

[bitonti]

[QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;4024180]Bit, I would agree with you if we were fighting an enemy that respects the civilized rules of warfare (AKA Geneva Convention), if they treated our POW's humanely we would be obligated to do likewise and in fact placing our own captured troops in grave danger if we didn't.

But we are fighting a vicious animal who does not care one wit about Geneva or anything that resembles humane treatment of captured Americans. They either torture our people (real torture, not waterboarding, but the unimaginable kind) or just cut their heads off and maybe even film it too for our viewing pleasure.

IMO we are under no obligation, legally or morally, to give these animals full Geneva accomodations, and it doesn't place our troops in any more danger than they already face if captured, that much we know for sure, so there is no strategic benifit either.[/QUOTE]


we are America we are supposed to be better than this. American exceptional ism doesn't just mean we get to do whatever we want. we are supposed to set a good example for the world. 1 day after mothers day everyone's mom said "2 wrongs don't make a right" and it's true. Just cause we are fighting terrorists doesn't mean we should act like terrorists.

[PatriotReign]

[QUOTE=bitonti;4024511]we are America we are supposed to be better than this. American exceptional ism doesn't just mean we get to do whatever we want. we are supposed to set a good example for the world. 1 day after mothers day everyone's mom said "2 wrongs don't make a right" and it's true. Just cause we are fighting terrorists doesn't mean we should act like terrorists.[/QUOTE]

I am with you in theory but the reality is the ones who admire our shining expample are our allies. Our present and potential enemies see it as a sign of weakness.

I heard an ex- SEAL guy on CNN(?) state that the prisoner must never be in control in anyway during an interrogation. He stated while enhanced interrogation should be used sparingly it would be a mistake to take it off the table completely because it would give a measure of control to the enemy combatant you're trying to get info from.

[bitonti]

[QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;4024588] since we are under no moral or legal obligation to give these animals Geneva accommodations [/QUOTE]

this is untrue. There's not a part of the GC that says torture is allowed for countries that don't sign.

the geneva convention doesn't extend an agreement only between countries.

it is a pact signed by individual countries to act a certain way in all warfare situations. the moral obligation is we signed this treaty, we should honor it.

the right seems to talk an awful lot about morals and doing the right thing... well honoring the geneva convention is the right thing. any way we look at it.

[Revi$_I$l@nd]

[QUOTE=PatriotReign;4024514]He stated while enhanced interrogation should be used sparingly it would be a mistake to take it off the table completely because it would give a measure of control to the enemy combatant you're trying to get info from.[/QUOTE]

This.

[PlumberKhan]

We had to do it 187 times but is SOOOOOOO effective!!! Just like when it takes me 187 times to f*ck my wife to get her off!!



















































I'm a stallion....

[PlumberKhan]

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