antibiotics in industrial farming

bitonti · 08-05-2011, 09:17 AM

so Cargill recalls 30+ million pounds of turkey meat. That is troubling but contamination happens.

the problem is that the salmonella strain in the meat is resistant to 3 types of common antibiotics. there are other antibiotics but they are expensive and eventually could be proven ineffective as well.

how does this happen? farmers distribute 4x the amount of antibiotics to farm animals than doctors do to people. they put a low dose in the food to make em grow faster... and also to fight the health risk brought on by the terrible conditions they are often raised in.

but that sets up bacterial resistant strains. It's too low a dose to kill the germ and they evolve stronger.

what is my point putting this in a political forum?

the FDA and other gov't agencies (congress) need to step in and severely limit this practice, before we have real plague-like situation. if the price of chicken goes up, a little, so be it, it's way better than having roving super bugs out there that we can't fight.

and that's why gov't regulations are required, if it was up to the free market, this is what happens, Infected turkey meat that we can't fight.

even fox news agrees with me

[url]http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/08/04/truth-about-ground-turkey-and-salmonella-outbreak/[/url]

southparkcpa · 08-05-2011, 09:21 AM

[QUOTE=bitonti;4092300]so Cargill recalls 30+ million pounds of turkey meat. That is troubling but contamination happens.

the problem is that the salmonella strain in the meat is resistant to 3 types of common antibiotics. there are other antibiotics but they are expensive and eventually could be proven ineffective as well.

how does this happen? farmers distribute 4x the amount of antibiotics to farm animals than doctors do to people. they put a low dose in the food to make em grow faster... and also to fight the health risk brought on by the terrible conditions they are often raised in.

but that sets up bacterial resistant strains. It's too low a dose to kill the germ and they evolve stronger.

what is my point putting this in a political forum?

the FDA and other gov't agencies (congress) need to step in and severely limit this practice, before we have real plague-like situation. if the price of chicken goes up, a little, so be it, it's way better than having roving super bugs out there that we can't fight.

and that's why gov't regulations are required, if it was up to the free market, this is what happens, Infected turkey meat that we can't fight.

even fox news agrees with me

[url]http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/08/04/truth-about-ground-turkey-and-salmonella-outbreak/[/url][/QUOTE]

Agreed...there is a place for government. BUT our government creates a bloated, many times "union backed" workforce that really doesn't care except whats in it for them. They RUN for the doors at 5pm. Most government operates EXACTLY like the post office.

Madoff was handed on a silver platter to the SEC and the SEC heads niece was married to a relative of Madoffs??? NOTHING was done.

We want effective government...not the bloated, overpaid, over fringed people we have now.

PlumberKhan · 08-05-2011, 09:25 AM

[QUOTE=bitonti;4092300]the FDA and other gov't agencies (congress) need to step in and severely limit this practice, before we have real plague-like situation. if the price of chicken goes up, a little, so be it, it's way better than having roving super bugs out there that we can't fight. [/QUOTE]

Wrong. The government caused this.

The Chicken Reinvestment Act of 1954 is the culprit. I know, I know...that was decades ago. But it is definitely at fault.

I will now keep repeating that lie over and over again until it becomes truthy.

cr726 · 08-05-2011, 09:58 AM

[QUOTE=southparkcpa;4092307]Agreed...there is a place for government. BUT our government creates a bloated, many times "union backed" workforce that really doesn't care except whats in it for them. They RUN for the doors at 5pm. Most government operates EXACTLY like the post office.

Madoff was handed on a silver platter to the SEC and the SEC heads niece was married to a relative of Madoffs??? NOTHING was done.

We want effective government...not the bloated, overpaid, over fringed people we have now.[/QUOTE]

40 hour work weeks are for the lazy now?

bitonti · 08-05-2011, 10:02 AM

[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4092319]Wrong. The government caused this.

The Chicken Reinvestment Act of 1954 is the culprit. I know, I know...that was decades ago. But it is definitely at fault.

I will now keep repeating that lie over and over again until it becomes truthy.[/QUOTE]

lol PK is the sarcasm king. get a credit card buddy

Trades · 08-05-2011, 10:05 AM

[QUOTE=bitonti;4092300]so Cargill recalls 30+ million pounds of turkey meat. That is troubling but contamination happens.

the problem is that the salmonella strain in the meat is resistant to 3 types of common antibiotics. there are other antibiotics but they are expensive and eventually could be proven ineffective as well.

how does this happen? farmers distribute 4x the amount of antibiotics to farm animals than doctors do to people. they put a low dose in the food to make em grow faster... and also to fight the health risk brought on by the terrible conditions they are often raised in.

but that sets up bacterial resistant strains. It's too low a dose to kill the germ and they evolve stronger.

what is my point putting this in a political forum?

the FDA and other gov't agencies (congress) need to step in and severely limit this practice, before we have real plague-like situation. if the price of chicken goes up, a little, so be it, it's way better than having roving super bugs out there that we can't fight.

and that's why gov't regulations are required, if it was up to the free market, this is what happens, Infected turkey meat that we can't fight.

even fox news agrees with me

[URL]http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/08/04/truth-about-ground-turkey-and-salmonella-outbreak/[/URL][/QUOTE]

Didn't the FDA setup the guidelines that are allowing them to underdose the birds in the first place? This is similar to the (MMS) government oversight commitee giving the Deepwater Horizon a Saftey award before it exploded. The FDA definitely has a place in the government but only GOOD regulation is valuable. Regulation for its own sake is worthless and in tis case dangerous.

bitonti · 08-05-2011, 10:12 AM

[QUOTE=Trades;4092424]Didn't the FDA setup the guidelines that are allowing them to underdose the birds in the first place? .[/QUOTE]

actually the FDA set up guidelines to get animals away from drugs, not encouraging drugs but the problem is FDA guidance documents are in no way enforceable by law.

[quote]
FDA’s guidance documents, including this guidance, do not establish legally enforceable responsibilities. Instead, guidances describe the Agency’s current thinking on a topic and should be viewed only as recommendations, unless specific regulatory or statutory requirements are cited. The use of the word 'should' in Agency guidances means that something is suggested or recommended, but not required.[/quote]

southparkcpa · 08-05-2011, 10:25 AM

[QUOTE=cr726;4092393]40 hour work weeks are for the lazy now?[/QUOTE]

They are present ONLY 40 hours, they work probably 25.

In the private sector...the end product is what is sold, not the effort.

PlumberKhan · 08-05-2011, 10:55 AM

[QUOTE=southparkcpa;4092485]They are present ONLY 40 hours, they work probably 25.

In the private sector...the end product is what is sold, not the effort.[/QUOTE]

So privatize f*cking everything then.

Get a freaking soapbox and start calling for the privatization of our entire government. Privatize the military too....because, you know...those jerks are lazy because they're not in the private sector.

Buster · 08-05-2011, 01:11 PM

[QUOTE=bitonti;4092300]

[B]the problem is that the salmonella strain in the meat is resistant to 3 types of common antibiotics. there are other antibiotics but they are expensive and eventually could be proven ineffective as well. [/B]

[/QUOTE]

AKA Evolution

Buster · 08-05-2011, 01:12 PM

[QUOTE=southparkcpa;4092485]They are present ONLY 40 hours, they work probably 25.

In the private sector...the end product is what is sold, not the effort.[/QUOTE]

and you know this, how?

bitonti · 08-05-2011, 03:36 PM

[QUOTE=Buster;4092797]AKA Evolution[/QUOTE]

in fairness to the right, true creationists are getting rarer by the day. Intelligent design is the theory du jour: a higher power setting everything in motion.

chiefst2000 · 08-05-2011, 04:08 PM

[QUOTE=bitonti;4093103]in fairness to the right, true creationists are getting rarer by the day. Intelligent design is the theory du jour: a higher power setting everything in motion.[/QUOTE]

I don't have much of an agenda in this matter. My question is how does evolution explain how life began? I understand how existing life evolved over time but what explains the creation of life itself?

PlumberKhan · 08-05-2011, 04:40 PM

[QUOTE=chiefst2000;4093143]I understand how existing life evolved over time but what explains the creation of life itself?[/QUOTE]

The same question applies to creationists. Where did the creator come from?

Buster · 08-06-2011, 01:24 PM

[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4093186]The same question applies to creationists. Where did the creator come from?[/QUOTE]

Wow!

I had this self same discussion in my dorm room back in the [REDACTED]'s.

Were you there?

Buster · 08-06-2011, 01:35 PM

[QUOTE=bitonti;4093103]in fairness to the right, true creationists are getting rarer by the day. Intelligent design is the theory du jour: a higher power setting everything in motion.[/QUOTE]

it is out there

When Republican Congressman Jack Kingston from Georgia was on Bill Maher 2 or 3 months ago and Maher used the example of antibiotics no longer working as well as they once did as an example of evolution. Kingston said he never had heard about antibiotics not working.

Really?

Do these guys think thru their ‘positions’, do they see what their opponents positions are and compare them with their own do they ask questions or do they just get the paperwork from the Republican recruiting office nod their head and move on?

PlumberKhan · 08-06-2011, 07:57 PM

[QUOTE=Buster;4093776]Wow!

I had this self same discussion in my dorm room back in the [REDACTED]'s.

Were you there?[/QUOTE]

It's the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru"]Kobayashi Maru[/URL] question for creationists. They think atheists are dumb for thinking that something came from nothing...but the entire basis of their belief system is that something came from nothing.

It's pure lolz to watch them twist in the wind. But, they are programmed to respond "He's always existed" and you're supposed to just accept it. Lolz.

08-05-2011, 09:17 AM	#1
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	antibiotics in industrial farming so Cargill recalls 30+ million pounds of turkey meat. That is troubling but contamination happens. the problem is that the salmonella strain in the meat is resistant to 3 types of common antibiotics. there are other antibiotics but they are expensive and eventually could be proven ineffective as well. how does this happen? farmers distribute 4x the amount of antibiotics to farm animals than doctors do to people. they put a low dose in the food to make em grow faster... and also to fight the health risk brought on by the terrible conditions they are often raised in. but that sets up bacterial resistant strains. It's too low a dose to kill the germ and they evolve stronger. what is my point putting this in a political forum? the FDA and other gov't agencies (congress) need to step in and severely limit this practice, before we have real plague-like situation. if the price of chicken goes up, a little, so be it, it's way better than having roving super bugs out there that we can't fight. and that's why gov't regulations are required, if it was up to the free market, this is what happens, Infected turkey meat that we can't fight. even fox news agrees with me [url]http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/08/04/truth-about-ground-turkey-and-salmonella-outbreak/[/url]

08-05-2011, 09:21 AM	#2
southparkcpa I see the 88 to 97 period all over again. Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NC Posts: 15,916	[QUOTE=bitonti;4092300]so Cargill recalls 30+ million pounds of turkey meat. That is troubling but contamination happens. the problem is that the salmonella strain in the meat is resistant to 3 types of common antibiotics. there are other antibiotics but they are expensive and eventually could be proven ineffective as well. how does this happen? farmers distribute 4x the amount of antibiotics to farm animals than doctors do to people. they put a low dose in the food to make em grow faster... and also to fight the health risk brought on by the terrible conditions they are often raised in. but that sets up bacterial resistant strains. It's too low a dose to kill the germ and they evolve stronger. what is my point putting this in a political forum? the FDA and other gov't agencies (congress) need to step in and severely limit this practice, before we have real plague-like situation. if the price of chicken goes up, a little, so be it, it's way better than having roving super bugs out there that we can't fight. and that's why gov't regulations are required, if it was up to the free market, this is what happens, Infected turkey meat that we can't fight. even fox news agrees with me [url]http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/08/04/truth-about-ground-turkey-and-salmonella-outbreak/[/url][/QUOTE] Agreed...there is a place for government. BUT our government creates a bloated, many times "union backed" workforce that really doesn't care except whats in it for them. They RUN for the doors at 5pm. Most government operates EXACTLY like the post office. Madoff was handed on a silver platter to the SEC and the SEC heads niece was married to a relative of Madoffs??? NOTHING was done. We want effective government...not the bloated, overpaid, over fringed people we have now.

08-05-2011, 09:25 AM	#3
PlumberKhan HAIL SATAN! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,078	[QUOTE=bitonti;4092300]the FDA and other gov't agencies (congress) need to step in and severely limit this practice, before we have real plague-like situation. if the price of chicken goes up, a little, so be it, it's way better than having roving super bugs out there that we can't fight. [/QUOTE] Wrong. The government caused this. The Chicken Reinvestment Act of 1954 is the culprit. I know, I know...that was decades ago. But it is definitely at fault. I will now keep repeating that lie over and over again until it becomes truthy.

08-05-2011, 09:58 AM	#4
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,526	[QUOTE=southparkcpa;4092307]Agreed...there is a place for government. BUT our government creates a bloated, many times "union backed" workforce that really doesn't care except whats in it for them. They RUN for the doors at 5pm. Most government operates EXACTLY like the post office. Madoff was handed on a silver platter to the SEC and the SEC heads niece was married to a relative of Madoffs??? NOTHING was done. We want effective government...not the bloated, overpaid, over fringed people we have now.[/QUOTE] 40 hour work weeks are for the lazy now?

08-05-2011, 10:02 AM	#5
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4092319]Wrong. The government caused this. The Chicken Reinvestment Act of 1954 is the culprit. I know, I know...that was decades ago. But it is definitely at fault. I will now keep repeating that lie over and over again until it becomes truthy.[/QUOTE] lol PK is the sarcasm king. get a credit card buddy

08-05-2011, 10:05 AM	#6
Trades Jets Insider VIP Join Date: May 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 5,570	[QUOTE=bitonti;4092300]so Cargill recalls 30+ million pounds of turkey meat. That is troubling but contamination happens. the problem is that the salmonella strain in the meat is resistant to 3 types of common antibiotics. there are other antibiotics but they are expensive and eventually could be proven ineffective as well. how does this happen? farmers distribute 4x the amount of antibiotics to farm animals than doctors do to people. they put a low dose in the food to make em grow faster... and also to fight the health risk brought on by the terrible conditions they are often raised in. but that sets up bacterial resistant strains. It's too low a dose to kill the germ and they evolve stronger. what is my point putting this in a political forum? the FDA and other gov't agencies (congress) need to step in and severely limit this practice, before we have real plague-like situation. if the price of chicken goes up, a little, so be it, it's way better than having roving super bugs out there that we can't fight. and that's why gov't regulations are required, if it was up to the free market, this is what happens, Infected turkey meat that we can't fight. even fox news agrees with me [URL]http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/08/04/truth-about-ground-turkey-and-salmonella-outbreak/[/URL][/QUOTE] Didn't the FDA setup the guidelines that are allowing them to underdose the birds in the first place? This is similar to the (MMS) government oversight commitee giving the Deepwater Horizon a Saftey award before it exploded. The FDA definitely has a place in the government but only GOOD regulation is valuable. Regulation for its own sake is worthless and in tis case dangerous.

08-05-2011, 10:12 AM	#7
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=Trades;4092424]Didn't the FDA setup the guidelines that are allowing them to underdose the birds in the first place? .[/QUOTE] actually the FDA set up guidelines to get animals away from drugs, not encouraging drugs but the problem is FDA guidance documents are in no way enforceable by law. [quote] FDA’s guidance documents, including this guidance, do not establish legally enforceable responsibilities. Instead, guidances describe the Agency’s current thinking on a topic and should be viewed only as recommendations, unless specific regulatory or statutory requirements are cited. The use of the word 'should' in Agency guidances means that something is suggested or recommended, but not required.[/quote]

08-05-2011, 10:25 AM	#8
southparkcpa I see the 88 to 97 period all over again. Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NC Posts: 15,916	[QUOTE=cr726;4092393]40 hour work weeks are for the lazy now?[/QUOTE] They are present ONLY 40 hours, they work probably 25. In the private sector...the end product is what is sold, not the effort.

08-05-2011, 10:55 AM	#9
PlumberKhan HAIL SATAN! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,078	[QUOTE=southparkcpa;4092485]They are present ONLY 40 hours, they work probably 25. In the private sector...the end product is what is sold, not the effort.[/QUOTE] So privatize f*cking everything then. Get a freaking soapbox and start calling for the privatization of our entire government. Privatize the military too....because, you know...those jerks are lazy because they're not in the private sector.

08-05-2011, 01:11 PM	#10
Buster not a rocket surgeon All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: East of the Jordan, West of the Rock of Gibraltar Posts: 4,295	[QUOTE=bitonti;4092300] [B]the problem is that the salmonella strain in the meat is resistant to 3 types of common antibiotics. there are other antibiotics but they are expensive and eventually could be proven ineffective as well. [/B] [/QUOTE] AKA Evolution

08-05-2011, 01:12 PM	#11
Buster not a rocket surgeon All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: East of the Jordan, West of the Rock of Gibraltar Posts: 4,295	[QUOTE=southparkcpa;4092485]They are present ONLY 40 hours, they work probably 25. In the private sector...the end product is what is sold, not the effort.[/QUOTE] and you know this, how?

08-05-2011, 03:36 PM	#12
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=Buster;4092797]AKA Evolution[/QUOTE] in fairness to the right, true creationists are getting rarer by the day. Intelligent design is the theory du jour: a higher power setting everything in motion.

08-05-2011, 04:08 PM	#13
chiefst2000 Champion of Common Sense All Pro Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,882	[QUOTE=bitonti;4093103]in fairness to the right, true creationists are getting rarer by the day. Intelligent design is the theory du jour: a higher power setting everything in motion.[/QUOTE] I don't have much of an agenda in this matter. My question is how does evolution explain how life began? I understand how existing life evolved over time but what explains the creation of life itself?

08-05-2011, 04:40 PM	#14
PlumberKhan HAIL SATAN! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,078	[QUOTE=chiefst2000;4093143]I understand how existing life evolved over time but what explains the creation of life itself?[/QUOTE] The same question applies to creationists. Where did the creator come from?

08-06-2011, 01:24 PM	#15
Buster not a rocket surgeon All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: East of the Jordan, West of the Rock of Gibraltar Posts: 4,295	[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4093186]The same question applies to creationists. Where did the creator come from?[/QUOTE] Wow! I had this self same discussion in my dorm room back in the [REDACTED]'s. Were you there?

08-06-2011, 01:35 PM	#16
Buster not a rocket surgeon All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: East of the Jordan, West of the Rock of Gibraltar Posts: 4,295	[QUOTE=bitonti;4093103]in fairness to the right, true creationists are getting rarer by the day. Intelligent design is the theory du jour: a higher power setting everything in motion.[/QUOTE] it is out there When Republican Congressman Jack Kingston from Georgia was on Bill Maher 2 or 3 months ago and Maher used the example of antibiotics no longer working as well as they once did as an example of evolution. Kingston said he never had heard about antibiotics not working. Really? Do these guys think thru their ‘positions’, do they see what their opponents positions are and compare them with their own do they ask questions or do they just get the paperwork from the Republican recruiting office nod their head and move on?

08-06-2011, 07:57 PM	#17
PlumberKhan HAIL SATAN! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,078	[QUOTE=Buster;4093776]Wow! I had this self same discussion in my dorm room back in the [REDACTED]'s. Were you there?[/QUOTE] It's the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_Maru"]Kobayashi Maru[/URL] question for creationists. They think atheists are dumb for thinking that something came from nothing...but the entire basis of their belief system is that something came from nothing. It's pure lolz to watch them twist in the wind. But, they are programmed to respond "He's always existed" and you're supposed to just accept it. Lolz.