The Western World Is 'Finished Financially'

jetstream23 · 11-30-2011, 12:45 PM

[url]http://www.cnbc.com/id/45489820[/url]

[QUOTE][SIZE="5"][B]The Western World Is 'Finished Financially': CIO[/B][/SIZE]

BRIC BRAZIL RUSSIA INDIA CHINA WESTERN WORLD EUROPE UNITED STATES JAPAN EMERGING MARKETS GOLDMAN SACHS
Posted By: Antonya Allen | Assistant Editor, CNBC
CNBC.com
| 30 Nov 2011 | 07:38 AM ET

The Western world has run out of ideas and is "finished financially" while emerging economies across the world will continue to grow, David Murrin, CIO at Emergent Asset Management told CNBC on the tenth anniversary of coining of the so-called BRIC nations of Brazil, Russia, India and China, by Goldman Sachs' Jim O'Neill.

[B]"I still subscribe and I've spoken about it regularly on this show that this is the moment when the Western world realizes it is finished financially and the implications are huge, whereas the emerging BRIC countries are at the beginning of their continuation cycle," Murrin told CNBC.[/B]

[B]Murrin added he believes the power shift from the West to emerging economies beyond Europe and the United States was "unstoppable" and he blamed a lack of ideas from Western leaders on how to stimulate growth together with contracted demographics and rising inflation as catalysts for Western decline.[/B]

[B]"We suffer from no growth and we suffer from imported inflation… that means we have negative real growth and societies fracture when you have negative real growth and quite simply our society faces fractures for trying to stick Europe back together again is not going to work with that underlying paradigm, unless you can create five percent growth to overcome that imported inflation," Murrin explained.[/B]

Murrin said that the East was depending less on the West and the rise of a consumer society was the first step in the expansion of an economic empire.

"If you look at the cycle of an empire system from regionalization to expansion to empire, the first phases of that catalyst are when you have a self fuelled consumer society and so actually that process of building your consumer base which is really what's going on in China, day by day their consumer base increases and the dependence on the West decreases," he said.

Containing China

Murrin added that while China is by far the biggest emerging economy and would be at the center of a new economic order, other emerging nations were set to join the BRIC countries and new political orders and alliances would come about as a result.

"This isn't just a BRIC story, this is the end of the Christian Western Empire versus the rise of the whole emerging world led by China as the foremost and most powerful," Murrin told CNBC.

"I think it's going to be the whole world trying to contain China's growth and there's going to be completely new alliances that take place... between Australia, Japan and India and America and possibly Russia if the foreign policy is expansive enough, there's going to be a ring of containment trying to hold this bulging entity which is like no other nation we've ever seen coherently challenge for control of world commodities and resources," he added.

Intervention Not the Answer

Finally, Murrin stressed that Europe in particular was set to experience a rapid and deep decline and intervention by the European Union and its financial institutions was not a solution to stimulate growth.

"I think there's a real reality amongst investors and just taxi drivers, that without growth, the system's not sustainable, so intervention is just a drug and we all know that the more drugs you put into someone, the more the system becomes immune to their response and so I don't see this as a solution," he said.

Pointing to previous economic downturns, Murrin said the West was much less equipped than the emerging world to deal with its current decline.

"In all our examples of disastrous events, Argentina, Russia, the Asian crisis, they're not good references for us in the West because they take place in countries with good demographics, good commodity stories and essentially underlying tides which lift them away from their problems," he said.

[B]"We in the West have none of those, we live in a world where resources are increasing in prices, where we're a consumer society, we're an old society, we're not innovative, we're not expansive, so we don't have any of those natural lifting qualities to actually pick us out of the mire which is what decline is really about," he added.[/B]

© 2011 CNBC.com[/QUOTE]

long island leprechaun · 11-30-2011, 12:58 PM

What a grump! Doesn't he know Christmas is right around the corner? :)

jetstream23 · 11-30-2011, 01:01 PM

[QUOTE=long island leprechaun;4258152]What a grump! Doesn't he know Christmas is right around the corner? :)[/QUOTE]

lol

He'll get coal in his stocking.....although, have you seen the commodity price of coal lately? Santa may not be able to afford it. :P

Bonhomme Richard · 11-30-2011, 01:12 PM

Hmm. Well, that's disconcerting.

Phoenixx · 11-30-2011, 01:14 PM

Perhaps someone should forward this article to Obama in time for him to cancel his 3 idiotic fundraisers tonight before they turn New York City into Gridlock City.

bitonti · 11-30-2011, 03:29 PM

this article came out 2 hours before the market opened, and the market is up 3% today.

parafly · 11-30-2011, 03:39 PM

While there could certainly be some tough times ahead, I do not buy all of the economic doom and gloom that has been dished out over the past few years. There is simply far too much wealth, resources, infrastructure, and shear number of consumers in the Western World for it to realistically become "financially finished."

JetPotato · 11-30-2011, 03:50 PM

[QUOTE=bitonti;4258381]this article came out 2 hours before the market opened, and the market is up 3% today.[/QUOTE]

we're saved. whew. that was a close one.

JetPotato · 11-30-2011, 03:52 PM

[QUOTE=parafly;4258395]While there could certainly be some tough times ahead, I do not buy all of the economic doom and gloom that has been dished out over the past few years. There is simply far too much wealth, resources, infrastructure, and shear number of consumers in the Western World for it to realistically become "financially finished."[/QUOTE]

That's what Bernie Madoff thought too.

FF2® · 11-30-2011, 03:53 PM

bummer.

bitonti · 11-30-2011, 03:58 PM

[QUOTE=JetPotato;4258406]we're saved. whew. that was a close one.[/QUOTE]

There's nothing to be saved from. Life goes on, Potato.

parafly · 11-30-2011, 04:03 PM

[QUOTE=JetPotato;4258409]That's what Bernie Madoff thought too.[/QUOTE]

What exactly is the connection between the macroeconomics of the entire Western World and a Ponzi scheme that spanned a total of 15 years?

PlumberKhan · 11-30-2011, 04:15 PM

[QUOTE=parafly;4258395]While there could certainly be some tough times ahead, I do not buy all of the economic doom and gloom that has been dished out over the past few years. There is simply far too much wealth, resources, infrastructure, and shear number of consumers in the Western World for it to realistically become "financially finished."[/QUOTE]

Nope.

DOOMED!!

Buy a generator. Stock up on canned foods. Watch Season 1 & 2 of "The Walking Dead" to prepare yourself.

2foolish197 · 11-30-2011, 07:34 PM

[QUOTE=parafly;4258395]While there could certainly be some tough times ahead, I do not buy all of the economic doom and gloom that has been dished out over the past few years. There is simply far too much wealth, resources, infrastructure, and shear number of consumers in the Western World for it to realistically become "financially finished."[/QUOTE]...agreed...america has too many resouces to be marginalized by anything...we just need some austerity,balance our books for 15-18 months and we'll be fine...

jetstream23 · 12-01-2011, 02:47 AM

[QUOTE=2foolish197;4258650]...agreed...america has too many resouces to be marginalized by anything...we just need some austerity,balance our books for [B][SIZE="5"]15-18 months[/SIZE][/B] and we'll be fine...[/QUOTE]

Change months to years and I'll come around on this thought.

Dirtstar · 12-01-2011, 05:38 AM

[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4258438]Nope.

DOOMED!!

Lease a generator. Stock up on canned foods. Watch Season 1 & 2 of "The Walking Dead" to prepare yourself.[/QUOTE]

fixed.

Soberphobia · 12-01-2011, 06:30 AM

lol, things are still peachy in this part of the Western World. Low unemployment, escaped the GFC, relatively free press, stable democracy, probably the best economy on the globe, lovely weather, lovely women and great people in general - can't get better here.

PlumberKhan · 12-01-2011, 07:44 AM

[QUOTE=Black Death;4258847]lol, things are still peachy in this part of the Western World. Low unemployment, escaped the GFC, relatively free press, stable democracy, probably the best economy on the globe, lovely weather, lovely women and great people in general - can't get better here.[/QUOTE]

That's great. Except for the 400 species of poisonous animals. :D

Soberphobia · 12-01-2011, 08:01 AM

[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4258861]That's great. Except for the 400 species of poisonous animals. :D[/QUOTE]

You get that, but you get used to it after the first few bites :D (and today I was told by my nearest and dearest to get rid of the uber-venemous spider sitting in the window sill about 3 metres from me as I type).

JetPotato · 12-01-2011, 12:26 PM

[QUOTE=parafly;4258424]What exactly is the connection between the macroeconomics of the entire Western World and a Ponzi scheme that spanned a total of 15 years?[/QUOTE]

You mean besides massive fraud, arrogance and a willingness to dismiss logic in the face of short term results?

11-30-2011, 12:45 PM	#1
jetstream23 recovering from turf toe Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ (New Jets Stadium Section 246) Posts: 31,612	The Western World Is 'Finished Financially' [url]http://www.cnbc.com/id/45489820[/url] [QUOTE][SIZE="5"][B]The Western World Is 'Finished Financially': CIO[/B][/SIZE] BRIC BRAZIL RUSSIA INDIA CHINA WESTERN WORLD EUROPE UNITED STATES JAPAN EMERGING MARKETS GOLDMAN SACHS Posted By: Antonya Allen \| Assistant Editor, CNBC CNBC.com \| 30 Nov 2011 \| 07:38 AM ET The Western world has run out of ideas and is "finished financially" while emerging economies across the world will continue to grow, David Murrin, CIO at Emergent Asset Management told CNBC on the tenth anniversary of coining of the so-called BRIC nations of Brazil, Russia, India and China, by Goldman Sachs' Jim O'Neill. [B]"I still subscribe and I've spoken about it regularly on this show that this is the moment when the Western world realizes it is finished financially and the implications are huge, whereas the emerging BRIC countries are at the beginning of their continuation cycle," Murrin told CNBC.[/B] [B]Murrin added he believes the power shift from the West to emerging economies beyond Europe and the United States was "unstoppable" and he blamed a lack of ideas from Western leaders on how to stimulate growth together with contracted demographics and rising inflation as catalysts for Western decline.[/B] [B]"We suffer from no growth and we suffer from imported inflation… that means we have negative real growth and societies fracture when you have negative real growth and quite simply our society faces fractures for trying to stick Europe back together again is not going to work with that underlying paradigm, unless you can create five percent growth to overcome that imported inflation," Murrin explained.[/B] Murrin said that the East was depending less on the West and the rise of a consumer society was the first step in the expansion of an economic empire. "If you look at the cycle of an empire system from regionalization to expansion to empire, the first phases of that catalyst are when you have a self fuelled consumer society and so actually that process of building your consumer base which is really what's going on in China, day by day their consumer base increases and the dependence on the West decreases," he said. Containing China Murrin added that while China is by far the biggest emerging economy and would be at the center of a new economic order, other emerging nations were set to join the BRIC countries and new political orders and alliances would come about as a result. "This isn't just a BRIC story, this is the end of the Christian Western Empire versus the rise of the whole emerging world led by China as the foremost and most powerful," Murrin told CNBC. "I think it's going to be the whole world trying to contain China's growth and there's going to be completely new alliances that take place... between Australia, Japan and India and America and possibly Russia if the foreign policy is expansive enough, there's going to be a ring of containment trying to hold this bulging entity which is like no other nation we've ever seen coherently challenge for control of world commodities and resources," he added. Intervention Not the Answer Finally, Murrin stressed that Europe in particular was set to experience a rapid and deep decline and intervention by the European Union and its financial institutions was not a solution to stimulate growth. "I think there's a real reality amongst investors and just taxi drivers, that without growth, the system's not sustainable, so intervention is just a drug and we all know that the more drugs you put into someone, the more the system becomes immune to their response and so I don't see this as a solution," he said. Pointing to previous economic downturns, Murrin said the West was much less equipped than the emerging world to deal with its current decline. "In all our examples of disastrous events, Argentina, Russia, the Asian crisis, they're not good references for us in the West because they take place in countries with good demographics, good commodity stories and essentially underlying tides which lift them away from their problems," he said. [B]"We in the West have none of those, we live in a world where resources are increasing in prices, where we're a consumer society, we're an old society, we're not innovative, we're not expansive, so we don't have any of those natural lifting qualities to actually pick us out of the mire which is what decline is really about," he added.[/B] © 2011 CNBC.com[/QUOTE]

11-30-2011, 12:58 PM	#2
long island leprechaun Don't mess with Angel Eyes. All Pro Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: greenwich village, NYC Posts: 7,258	What a grump! Doesn't he know Christmas is right around the corner? :)

11-30-2011, 01:01 PM	#3
jetstream23 recovering from turf toe Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ (New Jets Stadium Section 246) Posts: 31,612	[QUOTE=long island leprechaun;4258152]What a grump! Doesn't he know Christmas is right around the corner? :)[/QUOTE] lol He'll get coal in his stocking.....although, have you seen the commodity price of coal lately? Santa may not be able to afford it. :P

11-30-2011, 01:12 PM	#4
Bonhomme Richard Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 4,103	Hmm. Well, that's disconcerting.

11-30-2011, 01:14 PM	#5
Phoenixx Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Fairfield County, CT Posts: 6,870	Perhaps someone should forward this article to Obama in time for him to cancel his 3 idiotic fundraisers tonight before they turn New York City into Gridlock City.

11-30-2011, 03:29 PM	#6
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	this article came out 2 hours before the market opened, and the market is up 3% today.

11-30-2011, 03:39 PM	#7
parafly so why side with anything? All Pro Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 6,301	While there could certainly be some tough times ahead, I do not buy all of the economic doom and gloom that has been dished out over the past few years. There is simply far too much wealth, resources, infrastructure, and shear number of consumers in the Western World for it to realistically become "financially finished."

11-30-2011, 03:50 PM	#8
JetPotato fermenting Hall Of Fame Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 12,142	[QUOTE=bitonti;4258381]this article came out 2 hours before the market opened, and the market is up 3% today.[/QUOTE] we're saved. whew. that was a close one.

11-30-2011, 03:52 PM	#9
JetPotato fermenting Hall Of Fame Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 12,142	[QUOTE=parafly;4258395]While there could certainly be some tough times ahead, I do not buy all of the economic doom and gloom that has been dished out over the past few years. There is simply far too much wealth, resources, infrastructure, and shear number of consumers in the Western World for it to realistically become "financially finished."[/QUOTE] That's what Bernie Madoff thought too.

11-30-2011, 03:53 PM	#10
FF2® Believes Sloppy Guy was involved JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 46,224	bummer.

11-30-2011, 03:58 PM	#11
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[QUOTE=JetPotato;4258406]we're saved. whew. that was a close one.[/QUOTE] There's nothing to be saved from. Life goes on, Potato.

11-30-2011, 04:03 PM	#12
parafly so why side with anything? All Pro Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 6,301	[QUOTE=JetPotato;4258409]That's what Bernie Madoff thought too.[/QUOTE] What exactly is the connection between the macroeconomics of the entire Western World and a Ponzi scheme that spanned a total of 15 years?

11-30-2011, 04:15 PM	#13
PlumberKhan BRACE YOURSELVES FOR 12... Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,029	[QUOTE=parafly;4258395]While there could certainly be some tough times ahead, I do not buy all of the economic doom and gloom that has been dished out over the past few years. There is simply far too much wealth, resources, infrastructure, and shear number of consumers in the Western World for it to realistically become "financially finished."[/QUOTE] Nope. DOOMED!! Buy a generator. Stock up on canned foods. Watch Season 1 & 2 of "The Walking Dead" to prepare yourself.

11-30-2011, 07:34 PM	#14
2foolish197 i suspect hanky-panky All League Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: astoria Posts: 4,532	[QUOTE=parafly;4258395]While there could certainly be some tough times ahead, I do not buy all of the economic doom and gloom that has been dished out over the past few years. There is simply far too much wealth, resources, infrastructure, and shear number of consumers in the Western World for it to realistically become "financially finished."[/QUOTE]...agreed...america has too many resouces to be marginalized by anything...we just need some austerity,balance our books for 15-18 months and we'll be fine...

12-01-2011, 02:47 AM	#15
jetstream23 recovering from turf toe Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ (New Jets Stadium Section 246) Posts: 31,612	[QUOTE=2foolish197;4258650]...agreed...america has too many resouces to be marginalized by anything...we just need some austerity,balance our books for [B][SIZE="5"]15-18 months[/SIZE][/B] and we'll be fine...[/QUOTE] Change months to years and I'll come around on this thought.

12-01-2011, 05:38 AM	#16
Dirtstar Snubbed a man just to watch him cry. Hall Of Fame Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 15,796	[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4258438]Nope. DOOMED!! Lease a generator. Stock up on canned foods. Watch Season 1 & 2 of "The Walking Dead" to prepare yourself.[/QUOTE] fixed.

12-01-2011, 06:30 AM	#17
Soberphobia All League Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 3,440	lol, things are still peachy in this part of the Western World. Low unemployment, escaped the GFC, relatively free press, stable democracy, probably the best economy on the globe, lovely weather, lovely women and great people in general - can't get better here.

12-01-2011, 07:44 AM	#18
PlumberKhan BRACE YOURSELVES FOR 12... Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,029	[QUOTE=Black Death;4258847]lol, things are still peachy in this part of the Western World. Low unemployment, escaped the GFC, relatively free press, stable democracy, probably the best economy on the globe, lovely weather, lovely women and great people in general - can't get better here.[/QUOTE] That's great. Except for the 400 species of poisonous animals. :D

12-01-2011, 08:01 AM	#19
Soberphobia All League Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 3,440	[QUOTE=PlumberKhan;4258861]That's great. Except for the 400 species of poisonous animals. :D[/QUOTE] You get that, but you get used to it after the first few bites :D (and today I was told by my nearest and dearest to get rid of the uber-venemous spider sitting in the window sill about 3 metres from me as I type).

12-01-2011, 12:26 PM	#20
JetPotato fermenting Hall Of Fame Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 12,142	[QUOTE=parafly;4258424]What exactly is the connection between the macroeconomics of the entire Western World and a Ponzi scheme that spanned a total of 15 years?[/QUOTE] You mean besides massive fraud, arrogance and a willingness to dismiss logic in the face of short term results?