wayne hunter 22 sacks allowed & 28 pressures - Page 2

SONNY WERBLIN · 12-29-2011, 09:50 AM

[QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;4297856]Wayne Hunter was one of Tannebaum's biggest blunders as GM. The buck stops with him and he was wrong in a position that he had to be right about.[/QUOTE]

What concerns me about hunter is the frequency of this same mistake. Letting a veteran O lineman go because it is believed he is on the downside but having no real plan to insure that he is adequately replaced. see Pete Kendall, Alan Faneca, and now Damien Woody. Who replaced Kendall?... Was it Adrien Clarke? While Slauson has been a revelation as Fanecas replacement as I recall that was not the plan. The 2 guys ahead of Slauson flamed out. What was the back-up place if hunter, as has occurred, was not up to the task? Ducasse?

I'd prefer the FO spend more time on the O-line and Defensive Front 7. Teams with great O-lines and D front 7's are winners. Instead the Jets FO spends all it's time on WR's and CB's.

dameangreenkillingmachine · 12-29-2011, 02:08 PM

[QUOTE=DaBallhawk;4297847]who are these morons that actually read and pay for this pro football focus crap? statistics made up by some 13 year old madden freaks with no football knowledge whatsoever.

FOR THE RECORD: hunter has allowed 8.5 sacks this season. brandon moore has allowed 1 sack this season. ferguson has allowed 9.5 sacks. those are the official STATS inc. numbers.

and they know a little more about football than those madden geeks at PFF who have never played football or covered until a couple months ago.[/QUOTE]

yeah hunter has allowed 8.5 sacks in games against the eagles, patriots, and cowboys. get you're mouth off of ...

Vin · 12-29-2011, 02:09 PM

[QUOTE=RoadFan;4297859]Wayne Hunter sometimes doesn't even get a finger on his assignment. Amazing that Mark is still in one piece. That kid is tough and durable. Hunter is not even backup material.[/QUOTE]

Oh he gets a "finger", alright... :rolleyes:

*THE* Finger from all of us. :mad:

JB1089 · 12-29-2011, 02:19 PM

[QUOTE=DaBallhawk;4297853]AGAIN: their numbers are wrong :shakehead

do you also go to bleacherreport for football news? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

You're actually comparing PFF and BleacherReport? Really?

DaBallhawk · 12-29-2011, 02:21 PM

[QUOTE=JB1089;4298312]You're actually comparing PFF and BleacherReport? Really?[/QUOTE]
you're right, bleacher report has a bit more credibility considering they've been around a bit longer.

CanadaSteve · 12-29-2011, 02:52 PM

[QUOTE=DaBallhawk;4297853]AGAIN: their numbers are wrong :shakehead

do you also go to bleacherreport for football news? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Proof would be a great thing....no offense, but unless there is an actual report showing different numbers, your word doesn't mean much:D

CanadaSteve · 12-29-2011, 02:57 PM

[QUOTE=Vin;4297764]How big is Wayne's contract?[/QUOTE]

$2.5 million this year, and it goes up to $4 million next year.

GOOD NEWS: If he is cut next year, there is NO, I repeat NO cap hit on his contract. It is a full $4 million in cap savings...

Kentucky Jet · 12-29-2011, 03:14 PM

[QUOTE=DaBallhawk;4297847]who are these morons that actually read and pay for this pro football focus crap? statistics made up by some 13 year old madden freaks with no football knowledge whatsoever.

FOR THE RECORD: hunter has allowed 8.5 sacks this season. brandon moore has allowed 1 sack this season. ferguson has allowed 9.5 sacks. those are the official STATS inc. numbers.

and they know a little more about football than those madden geeks at PFF who have never played football or covered until a couple months ago.[/QUOTE]

Bill Callahan turned down extension with Jets
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on December 29, 2011, 9:56 AM EST

Getty ImagesDespite Rex Ryan’s defense of offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer Wednesday, there are many in New York that believe the team will make a change at offensive coordinator after the season.

Count Rich Cimini of ESPNNewYork.com among that group.

“Ryan’s response to the Schottenheimer job-security question was telling,” Cimini wrote. “He looked away, there was a nervous laugh, and he went on and on about how it’s unfair to blame a coach — except him.”

If Schottenheimer goes, offensive line coach Bill Callahan is a logical candidate to replace him. But it’s possible Callahan could also choose to leave.

Cimini writes that Callahan has turned down multiple contract extension offers from the Jets, including recently. Callahan, whose contact is up, decided to keep his options open. (Perhaps so he could join old pal Jon Gruden somewhere.)

It’s not hard to look beneath Ryan’s support of Shottenheimer and see frustration. The Jets dropped back to pass on 67 plays against the Giants. That’s the most for any NFL team in a regulation game since 2008.

“I don’t see us throwing the ball 60 times ever again,” Ryan said. “I don’t think any of us could believe we threw it that many times. I know I can’t.”

I wonder if the Schotty haters are making up phony stats?

jetsfan1983 · 12-29-2011, 03:20 PM

[QUOTE=SONNY WERBLIN;4297940]What concerns me about hunter is the frequency of this same mistake. Letting a veteran O lineman go because it is believed he is on the downside but having no real plan to insure that he is adequately replaced. see Pete Kendall, Alan Faneca, and now Damien Woody. Who replaced Kendall?... Was it Adrien Clarke? While Slauson has been a revelation as Fanecas replacement as I recall that was not the plan. The 2 guys ahead of Slauson flamed out. What was the back-up place if hunter, as has occurred, was not up to the task? Ducasse?

I'd prefer the FO spend more time on the O-line and Defensive Front 7. Teams with great O-lines and D front 7's are winners. Instead the Jets FO spends all it's time on WR's and CB's.[/QUOTE]

Not really... And you can't bring up the Kendall thing because that wasn't Rex and Tannenbaum.

Clearly letting Faneca go was an excellent move because the guy was finished. Nobody wanted him before going to Arizona and he retired just after. All of the people here thought it was a horrible move while it proved to be excellent. Slauson wasn't the number one option, but he was number 2 behind Ducasse so the team clearly figured that either Ducasse or Slauson would fill in. And when you had Faneca with such a big cap hit, the move becomes even more positive.

Hunter was the big mistake but fortunately the team will move on from him after this year.

And the only reason they still have Ducasse around is because the guy is the best run blocker on the team by a significant margin. Just has no clue pass blocking but they hoped to be able to get him better at that because the run blocking upside is basically Larry Allen.

Untouchable · 12-29-2011, 03:24 PM

[QUOTE=TurkJetFan;4297751]putrid...

anyone who thinks its sanchez and not the oline is delusional.[/QUOTE]

Anyone who wants to delude every little bit of blame away from Sanchez is delusional.

It's the OL's fault. It's the receivers fault. It's the backfields fault. It's Schitty's fault.

So basically, Sanchez needs everything going swimingly well around him to have a good performance? Okay, then he's not a franchise QB and he's not the guy you build your offense around.

shodan9999 · 12-29-2011, 03:29 PM

[QUOTE=dameangreenkillingmachine;4297745]came from a pro football focus. someone posted it in another forum since you have to pay to see the stats. this has to be a record or something for most sacks allowed in a season. i say he ends with 24 sacks allowed after the last game. absolutely atrocious. a practice squad player could block better than him. I know sanchez makes some pretty bad throws and schotty makes pretty predictable and stupid calls, but this guy flat out sucks. how is you're qb suppossed to feel comfortable in the pocket when he has a RT that lets up as many sacks as some whole entire offensive lines let up in a season.

oh yeah and Brandon Moore right next too him hasn't even allowed a hit on sanchez the whole season.

heres the source: [URL="http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=474102&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight="]http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=474102&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=[/URL][/QUOTE]

Many of us said,even before the draft, that the OL was a problem..I was interested in depth...but after this season of disappointment..lets look at starters....we all know Hunter and Moore are just not getting it done...they claim Moore has not allowed a sack...do not believe it...he still is not getting it done...Slayson...not sure...maybe he can still hold down a starting job if we get him major help...Ferguson...always been good...but seems to be slipping big time...the only top lineman left is Mangold...hope the injury this year is not a sign of things to come...Ducasse...maybe nothing more than a player in the pinch type of guy...he has not stepped up... the rest-Turner.... Schlauder...who knows...maybe they will show life in training Camp....but this is were we must upgrade about 3 notches ....in the draft and FA....otherwise we will need 3 or 4 other teams to beat someone else next year just so we can get a #6 seed....if we also "WIN"....happy new years...no caps...

SMC · 12-29-2011, 03:36 PM

[QUOTE=Untouchable;4298396]Anyone who wants to delude every little bit of blame away from Sanchez is delusional.

It's the OL's fault. It's the receivers fault. It's the backfields fault. It's Schitty's fault.

So basically, [B]Sanchez needs everything going swimingly [/B]well around him to have a good performance? Okay, then he's not a franchise QB and he's not the guy you build your offense around.[/QUOTE]

The bolded illustrates that some people simply don't get it.

Sanchez is a 3rd yr player who is learning and growing through on-the-job training. In order to continue that growth so that he can eventually be a bona fide franchise QB, the Jets needed to maintain a level of play around him so as not to retard his growth, but that's exactly what happened.

The Jets put the single worst tackle in the NFL on the right side and took away receiver speed. The Jets retarded Sanchez' development and this season is the result.

The goal is for Sanchez to become a franchise QB (like most franchise QBs are in their late 20s and early 30s). He's not one now and at just turned 25 he shouldn't expected to be one.

Untouchable · 12-29-2011, 03:45 PM

[QUOTE=SMC;4298411]The bolded illustrates that some people simply don't get it.

Sanchez is a 3rd yr player who is learning and growing through on-the-job training. In order to continue that growth so that he can eventually be a bona fide franchise QB, the Jets needed to maintain a level of play around him so as not to retard his growth, but that's exactly what happened.

The Jets put the single worst tackle in the NFL on the right side and took away receiver speed. The Jets retarded Sanchez' development and this season is the result.

The goal is for Sanchez to become a franchise QB (like most franchise QBs are in their late 20s and early 30s). He's not one now and at just turned 25 he shouldn't expected to be one.[/QUOTE]

I agree with the majority of what you said.

But let's be honest here, you want your young QB to show more at this point than what Sanchez has shown.

How many times have we seen Sanchez elevate his game, put the entire offense on his back, and lead them to a victory? I can think of one game and one game only, last year against Houston.

Guys like Matthew Stafford and Matt Ryan are young guys who are still growing on the job as well, but I've seen them flash way more than I've seen Sanchez flash.

And people can't just give me the tired argument of Stafford having the best WR in the game. You think our running game and OL are inconsistent? Well, just look at the Lions. Their running game is virtually non-existant and they have guys like Jeff Backus and Gosder Cherilus protecting Stafford. Yet, they still seem to put up over 30 points in every single game and Stafford more often than not looks amazing in doing so.

KR · 12-29-2011, 03:59 PM

[QUOTE=Untouchable;4298424]I agree with the majority of what you said.

But let's be honest here, you want your young QB to show more at this point than what Sanchez has shown.

How many times have we seen Sanchez elevate his game, put the entire offense on his back, and lead them to a victory? I can think of one game and one game only, last year against Houston.

Guys like Matthew Stafford and Matt Ryan are young guys who are still growing on the job as well, but I've seen them flash way more than I've seen Sanchez flash.

And people can't just give me the tired argument of Stafford having the best WR in the game. You think our running game and OL are inconsistent? Well, just look at the Lions. Their running game is virtually non-existant and they have guys like Jeff Backus and Gosder Cherilus protecting Stafford. Yet, they still seem to put up over 30 points in every single game and Stafford more often than not looks amazing in doing so.[/QUOTE]

+1.

We paid Sanchez 60 million, and took him top 5 in the draft. He has been here 3 years now--and YES-He is expected to already be a franchise QB. That is the NFL today.

I look at guys like Andy Dalton and find his play more impressive in his rookie year then Sanchez in his third year. Thats with Dalton playing with alot less talent, and facing the ravens/Steelers 4 times a year. I dont think I need to remind anyone what Sanchez did vs the Ravens this year.

SMC · 12-29-2011, 04:00 PM

[QUOTE=Untouchable;4298424]I agree with the majority of what you said.

But let's be honest here, you want your young QB to show more at this point than what Sanchez has shown.

How many times have we seen Sanchez elevate his game, put the entire offense on his back, and lead them to a victory? I can think of one game and one game only, last year against Houston.

Guys like Matthew Stafford and Matt Ryan are young guys who are still growing on the job as well, but I've seen them flash way more than I've seen Sanchez flash.

And people can't just give me the tired argument of Stafford having the best WR in the game. You think our running game and OL are inconsistent? Well, just look at the Lions. Their running game is virtually non-existant and they have guys like Jeff Backus and Gosder Cherilus protecting Stafford. Yet, they still seem to put up over 30 points in every single game and Stafford more often than not looks amazing in doing so.[/QUOTE]

Megatron, Roddy White/Tony Gonzales can't simply be dismissed from the equation. Heck, Megatron had 1120 yds last season with Drew Stanton and Shaun Hill throwing the ball to him.

That said, I don't necessarily disagree with you. Stanton and Ryan have shown more in the regular season than Sanchez (Ryan has sucked in the postseason), but that's not the end of the world.

Rivers and Big Ben had showed more than Eli early in their careers. That happens to QBs.

I believe that Sanchez sucks this year, but I make no proclemation about his future, because he has improved, albeit incrementally.

I grade Sanchez as follows:

2009 -- D
2010 -- D+
2011 -- C to C-

The thing is, if the Jets had maintained their Oline strength and WR speed, I believe Sanchez would've been in the C+ to B range this season. Tannenbaum is responsible for Sanchez not achieving that.

So Stafford and Ryan can already be Bs, but that doesn't stop Sanchez from reaching that level because he isn't there yet.

SMC · 12-29-2011, 04:10 PM

[QUOTE=KR;4298439]+1.

We paid Sanchez 60 million, and took him top 5 in the draft. He has been here 3 years now--and YES-He is expected to already be a franchise QB. That is the NFL today.

I look at guys like Andy Dalton and find his play more impressive in his rookie year then Sanchez in his third year. Thats with Dalton playing with alot less talent, and facing the ravens/Steelers 4 times a year. I dont think I need to remind anyone what Sanchez did vs the Ravens this year.[/QUOTE]

Why don't you wait a bit on Dalton because you and others pulled this same stuff with Freeman last year. No one mentions Freeman now.

And, no, QBs aren't expected to be franchise QBs in year 3. Brees wasn't. Eli wasn't. Rodgers hadn't even started a game yet in year 3.

Jet Life · 12-29-2011, 04:10 PM

[QUOTE=SMC;4297783]There's the Sanchez haters spin that the increased sacks is due in large part to Sanchez holding the ball too long, but that doesnt wash.

Hunter has allowed 22 of the 37 sacks this season. With Moore not allowing a sack, that means the other 3 positions have allowed on average 5 sacks each.

So Sanchez holding the ball hasnt increased the sacks for the other Olineman.[/QUOTE]

Great post

JStokes · 12-29-2011, 04:19 PM

[QUOTE=SMC;4298411]The bolded illustrates that some people simply don't get it.

Sanchez is a 3rd yr player who is learning and growing through on-the-job training. In order to continue that growth so that he can eventually be a bona fide franchise QB, the Jets needed to maintain a level of play around him so as not to retard his growth, but that's exactly what happened.

The Jets put the single worst tackle in the NFL on the right side and took away receiver speed. The Jets retarded Sanchez' development and this season is the result.

The goal is for Sanchez to become a franchise QB (like most franchise QBs are in their late 20s and early 30s). He's not one now and at just turned 25 he shouldn't expected to be one.[/QUOTE]

Can you just stop with your stunning use of logic and reason?

Seriously, you're messing up the debate with all you well thought out analysis.

Stop it.

_

JStokes · 12-29-2011, 04:21 PM

[QUOTE=SMC;4298450]Why don't you wait a bit on Dalton because you and others pulled this same stuff with Freeman last year. No one mentions Freeman now.

And, no, QBs aren't expected to be franchise QBs in year 3. Brees wasn't. Eli wasn't. Rodgers hadn't even started a game yet in year 3.[/QUOTE]

And Flacco continues to improve by leaps and bounds EVERY year.

He shoulda made the pro-bowl this year.

_

SONNY WERBLIN · 12-29-2011, 04:27 PM

[url]http://nyjetscap.com/Schottenheimer.html[/url]

This is a link to a very enlightening analysis of How Schotty's offense seems to put QB's in difficult down/distance postiion at an alarming rate.

[QUOTE]Sanchez vs Ryan vs Flacco: 3rd Down Playcalls

Quarterback | %3rd<2 | % Passes 3rd<2 | 3rd Dwn Convn %
Sanchez | 12.2 | [COLOR="Red"]54.5[/COLOR] | 37
Ryan | 24.2 | 16.0 | 43
Flacco | 15.4 | 18.2 | 41
[/QUOTE]

Why in the world would you call a pass play on 3d and less than two 54.% of the time???

12-29-2011, 03:29 PM	#31
shodan9999 Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,632	[QUOTE=dameangreenkillingmachine;4297745]came from a pro football focus. someone posted it in another forum since you have to pay to see the stats. this has to be a record or something for most sacks allowed in a season. i say he ends with 24 sacks allowed after the last game. absolutely atrocious. a practice squad player could block better than him. I know sanchez makes some pretty bad throws and schotty makes pretty predictable and stupid calls, but this guy flat out sucks. how is you're qb suppossed to feel comfortable in the pocket when he has a RT that lets up as many sacks as some whole entire offensive lines let up in a season. oh yeah and Brandon Moore right next too him hasn't even allowed a hit on sanchez the whole season. heres the source: [URL="http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=474102&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight="]http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=474102&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=[/URL][/QUOTE] Many of us said,even before the draft, that the OL was a problem..I was interested in depth...but after this season of disappointment..lets look at starters....we all know Hunter and Moore are just not getting it done...they claim Moore has not allowed a sack...do not believe it...he still is not getting it done...Slayson...not sure...maybe he can still hold down a starting job if we get him major help...Ferguson...always been good...but seems to be slipping big time...the only top lineman left is Mangold...hope the injury this year is not a sign of things to come...Ducasse...maybe nothing more than a player in the pinch type of guy...he has not stepped up... the rest-Turner.... Schlauder...who knows...maybe they will show life in training Camp....but this is were we must upgrade about 3 notches ....in the draft and FA....otherwise we will need 3 or 4 other teams to beat someone else next year just so we can get a #6 seed....if we also "WIN"....happy new years...no caps... Last edited by shodan9999; 12-29-2011 at 03:34 PM.

12-29-2011, 09:50 AM	#21
SONNY WERBLIN Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,359	[QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;4297856]Wayne Hunter was one of Tannebaum's biggest blunders as GM. The buck stops with him and he was wrong in a position that he had to be right about.[/QUOTE] What concerns me about hunter is the frequency of this same mistake. Letting a veteran O lineman go because it is believed he is on the downside but having no real plan to insure that he is adequately replaced. see Pete Kendall, Alan Faneca, and now Damien Woody. Who replaced Kendall?... Was it Adrien Clarke? While Slauson has been a revelation as Fanecas replacement as I recall that was not the plan. The 2 guys ahead of Slauson flamed out. What was the back-up place if hunter, as has occurred, was not up to the task? Ducasse? I'd prefer the FO spend more time on the O-line and Defensive Front 7. Teams with great O-lines and D front 7's are winners. Instead the Jets FO spends all it's time on WR's and CB's.

12-29-2011, 02:08 PM	#22
dameangreenkillingmachine Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,626	[QUOTE=DaBallhawk;4297847]who are these morons that actually read and pay for this pro football focus crap? statistics made up by some 13 year old madden freaks with no football knowledge whatsoever. FOR THE RECORD: hunter has allowed 8.5 sacks this season. brandon moore has allowed 1 sack this season. ferguson has allowed 9.5 sacks. those are the official STATS inc. numbers. and they know a little more about football than those madden geeks at PFF who have never played football or covered until a couple months ago.[/QUOTE] yeah hunter has allowed 8.5 sacks in games against the eagles, patriots, and cowboys. get you're mouth off of ...

12-29-2011, 02:09 PM	#23
Vin RE-SIGN ME, DAMMIT!!! All Pro Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,130	[QUOTE=RoadFan;4297859]Wayne Hunter sometimes doesn't even get a finger on his assignment. Amazing that Mark is still in one piece. That kid is tough and durable. Hunter is not even backup material.[/QUOTE] Oh he gets a "finger", alright... :rolleyes: THE Finger from all of us. :mad:

12-29-2011, 02:19 PM	#24
JB1089 Now is the time... All Pro Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 5,711	[QUOTE=DaBallhawk;4297853]AGAIN: their numbers are wrong :shakehead do you also go to bleacherreport for football news? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] You're actually comparing PFF and BleacherReport? Really?

12-29-2011, 02:21 PM	#25
DaBallhawk 2013. You still suck Marky Boy. All League Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,769	[QUOTE=JB1089;4298312]You're actually comparing PFF and BleacherReport? Really?[/QUOTE] you're right, bleacher report has a bit more credibility considering they've been around a bit longer.

12-29-2011, 02:52 PM	#26
CanadaSteve Liked the draft picks....meat and potatoes. All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 6,514	[QUOTE=DaBallhawk;4297853]AGAIN: their numbers are wrong :shakehead do you also go to bleacherreport for football news? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] Proof would be a great thing....no offense, but unless there is an actual report showing different numbers, your word doesn't mean much:D

12-29-2011, 02:57 PM	#27
CanadaSteve Liked the draft picks....meat and potatoes. All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 6,514	[QUOTE=Vin;4297764]How big is Wayne's contract?[/QUOTE] $2.5 million this year, and it goes up to $4 million next year. GOOD NEWS: If he is cut next year, there is NO, I repeat NO cap hit on his contract. It is a full $4 million in cap savings...

12-29-2011, 03:14 PM	#28
Kentucky Jet A NY JETS fan! Go Jets! Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ormond Beach, Florida Posts: 10,880	[QUOTE=DaBallhawk;4297847]who are these morons that actually read and pay for this pro football focus crap? statistics made up by some 13 year old madden freaks with no football knowledge whatsoever. FOR THE RECORD: hunter has allowed 8.5 sacks this season. brandon moore has allowed 1 sack this season. ferguson has allowed 9.5 sacks. those are the official STATS inc. numbers. and they know a little more about football than those madden geeks at PFF who have never played football or covered until a couple months ago.[/QUOTE] Bill Callahan turned down extension with Jets Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on December 29, 2011, 9:56 AM EST Getty ImagesDespite Rex Ryan’s defense of offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer Wednesday, there are many in New York that believe the team will make a change at offensive coordinator after the season. Count Rich Cimini of ESPNNewYork.com among that group. “Ryan’s response to the Schottenheimer job-security question was telling,” Cimini wrote. “He looked away, there was a nervous laugh, and he went on and on about how it’s unfair to blame a coach — except him.” If Schottenheimer goes, offensive line coach Bill Callahan is a logical candidate to replace him. But it’s possible Callahan could also choose to leave. Cimini writes that Callahan has turned down multiple contract extension offers from the Jets, including recently. Callahan, whose contact is up, decided to keep his options open. (Perhaps so he could join old pal Jon Gruden somewhere.) It’s not hard to look beneath Ryan’s support of Shottenheimer and see frustration. The Jets dropped back to pass on 67 plays against the Giants. That’s the most for any NFL team in a regulation game since 2008. “I don’t see us throwing the ball 60 times ever again,” Ryan said. “I don’t think any of us could believe we threw it that many times. I know I can’t.” I wonder if the Schotty haters are making up phony stats?

12-29-2011, 03:20 PM	#29
jetsfan1983 All Pro Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,835	[QUOTE=SONNY WERBLIN;4297940]What concerns me about hunter is the frequency of this same mistake. Letting a veteran O lineman go because it is believed he is on the downside but having no real plan to insure that he is adequately replaced. see Pete Kendall, Alan Faneca, and now Damien Woody. Who replaced Kendall?... Was it Adrien Clarke? While Slauson has been a revelation as Fanecas replacement as I recall that was not the plan. The 2 guys ahead of Slauson flamed out. What was the back-up place if hunter, as has occurred, was not up to the task? Ducasse? I'd prefer the FO spend more time on the O-line and Defensive Front 7. Teams with great O-lines and D front 7's are winners. Instead the Jets FO spends all it's time on WR's and CB's.[/QUOTE] Not really... And you can't bring up the Kendall thing because that wasn't Rex and Tannenbaum. Clearly letting Faneca go was an excellent move because the guy was finished. Nobody wanted him before going to Arizona and he retired just after. All of the people here thought it was a horrible move while it proved to be excellent. Slauson wasn't the number one option, but he was number 2 behind Ducasse so the team clearly figured that either Ducasse or Slauson would fill in. And when you had Faneca with such a big cap hit, the move becomes even more positive. Hunter was the big mistake but fortunately the team will move on from him after this year. And the only reason they still have Ducasse around is because the guy is the best run blocker on the team by a significant margin. Just has no clue pass blocking but they hoped to be able to get him better at that because the run blocking upside is basically Larry Allen.

12-29-2011, 03:24 PM	#30
Untouchable Hall Of Fame Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 22,404	[QUOTE=TurkJetFan;4297751]putrid... anyone who thinks its sanchez and not the oline is delusional.[/QUOTE] Anyone who wants to delude every little bit of blame away from Sanchez is delusional. It's the OL's fault. It's the receivers fault. It's the backfields fault. It's Schitty's fault. So basically, Sanchez needs everything going swimingly well around him to have a good performance? Okay, then he's not a franchise QB and he's not the guy you build your offense around.

12-29-2011, 03:36 PM	#32
SMC Day-to-day Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 22,032	[QUOTE=Untouchable;4298396]Anyone who wants to delude every little bit of blame away from Sanchez is delusional. It's the OL's fault. It's the receivers fault. It's the backfields fault. It's Schitty's fault. So basically, [B]Sanchez needs everything going swimingly [/B]well around him to have a good performance? Okay, then he's not a franchise QB and he's not the guy you build your offense around.[/QUOTE] The bolded illustrates that some people simply don't get it. Sanchez is a 3rd yr player who is learning and growing through on-the-job training. In order to continue that growth so that he can eventually be a bona fide franchise QB, the Jets needed to maintain a level of play around him so as not to retard his growth, but that's exactly what happened. The Jets put the single worst tackle in the NFL on the right side and took away receiver speed. The Jets retarded Sanchez' development and this season is the result. The goal is for Sanchez to become a franchise QB (like most franchise QBs are in their late 20s and early 30s). He's not one now and at just turned 25 he shouldn't expected to be one.

12-29-2011, 03:45 PM	#33
Untouchable Hall Of Fame Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 22,404	[QUOTE=SMC;4298411]The bolded illustrates that some people simply don't get it. Sanchez is a 3rd yr player who is learning and growing through on-the-job training. In order to continue that growth so that he can eventually be a bona fide franchise QB, the Jets needed to maintain a level of play around him so as not to retard his growth, but that's exactly what happened. The Jets put the single worst tackle in the NFL on the right side and took away receiver speed. The Jets retarded Sanchez' development and this season is the result. The goal is for Sanchez to become a franchise QB (like most franchise QBs are in their late 20s and early 30s). He's not one now and at just turned 25 he shouldn't expected to be one.[/QUOTE] I agree with the majority of what you said. But let's be honest here, you want your young QB to show more at this point than what Sanchez has shown. How many times have we seen Sanchez elevate his game, put the entire offense on his back, and lead them to a victory? I can think of one game and one game only, last year against Houston. Guys like Matthew Stafford and Matt Ryan are young guys who are still growing on the job as well, but I've seen them flash way more than I've seen Sanchez flash. And people can't just give me the tired argument of Stafford having the best WR in the game. You think our running game and OL are inconsistent? Well, just look at the Lions. Their running game is virtually non-existant and they have guys like Jeff Backus and Gosder Cherilus protecting Stafford. Yet, they still seem to put up over 30 points in every single game and Stafford more often than not looks amazing in doing so.

12-29-2011, 03:59 PM	#34
KR Counting the days until Mark Sanchez is benched... All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,843	[QUOTE=Untouchable;4298424]I agree with the majority of what you said. But let's be honest here, you want your young QB to show more at this point than what Sanchez has shown. How many times have we seen Sanchez elevate his game, put the entire offense on his back, and lead them to a victory? I can think of one game and one game only, last year against Houston. Guys like Matthew Stafford and Matt Ryan are young guys who are still growing on the job as well, but I've seen them flash way more than I've seen Sanchez flash. And people can't just give me the tired argument of Stafford having the best WR in the game. You think our running game and OL are inconsistent? Well, just look at the Lions. Their running game is virtually non-existant and they have guys like Jeff Backus and Gosder Cherilus protecting Stafford. Yet, they still seem to put up over 30 points in every single game and Stafford more often than not looks amazing in doing so.[/QUOTE] +1. We paid Sanchez 60 million, and took him top 5 in the draft. He has been here 3 years now--and YES-He is expected to already be a franchise QB. That is the NFL today. I look at guys like Andy Dalton and find his play more impressive in his rookie year then Sanchez in his third year. Thats with Dalton playing with alot less talent, and facing the ravens/Steelers 4 times a year. I dont think I need to remind anyone what Sanchez did vs the Ravens this year.

12-29-2011, 04:00 PM	#35
SMC Day-to-day Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 22,032	[QUOTE=Untouchable;4298424]I agree with the majority of what you said. But let's be honest here, you want your young QB to show more at this point than what Sanchez has shown. How many times have we seen Sanchez elevate his game, put the entire offense on his back, and lead them to a victory? I can think of one game and one game only, last year against Houston. Guys like Matthew Stafford and Matt Ryan are young guys who are still growing on the job as well, but I've seen them flash way more than I've seen Sanchez flash. And people can't just give me the tired argument of Stafford having the best WR in the game. You think our running game and OL are inconsistent? Well, just look at the Lions. Their running game is virtually non-existant and they have guys like Jeff Backus and Gosder Cherilus protecting Stafford. Yet, they still seem to put up over 30 points in every single game and Stafford more often than not looks amazing in doing so.[/QUOTE] Megatron, Roddy White/Tony Gonzales can't simply be dismissed from the equation. Heck, Megatron had 1120 yds last season with Drew Stanton and Shaun Hill throwing the ball to him. That said, I don't necessarily disagree with you. Stanton and Ryan have shown more in the regular season than Sanchez (Ryan has sucked in the postseason), but that's not the end of the world. Rivers and Big Ben had showed more than Eli early in their careers. That happens to QBs. I believe that Sanchez sucks this year, but I make no proclemation about his future, because he has improved, albeit incrementally. I grade Sanchez as follows: 2009 -- D 2010 -- D+ 2011 -- C to C- The thing is, if the Jets had maintained their Oline strength and WR speed, I believe Sanchez would've been in the C+ to B range this season. Tannenbaum is responsible for Sanchez not achieving that. So Stafford and Ryan can already be Bs, but that doesn't stop Sanchez from reaching that level because he isn't there yet.

12-29-2011, 04:10 PM	#36
SMC Day-to-day Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 22,032	[QUOTE=KR;4298439]+1. We paid Sanchez 60 million, and took him top 5 in the draft. He has been here 3 years now--and YES-He is expected to already be a franchise QB. That is the NFL today. I look at guys like Andy Dalton and find his play more impressive in his rookie year then Sanchez in his third year. Thats with Dalton playing with alot less talent, and facing the ravens/Steelers 4 times a year. I dont think I need to remind anyone what Sanchez did vs the Ravens this year.[/QUOTE] Why don't you wait a bit on Dalton because you and others pulled this same stuff with Freeman last year. No one mentions Freeman now. And, no, QBs aren't expected to be franchise QBs in year 3. Brees wasn't. Eli wasn't. Rodgers hadn't even started a game yet in year 3.

12-29-2011, 04:10 PM	#37
Jet Life Veteran Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: CT Posts: 1,824	[QUOTE=SMC;4297783]There's the Sanchez haters spin that the increased sacks is due in large part to Sanchez holding the ball too long, but that doesnt wash. Hunter has allowed 22 of the 37 sacks this season. With Moore not allowing a sack, that means the other 3 positions have allowed on average 5 sacks each. So Sanchez holding the ball hasnt increased the sacks for the other Olineman.[/QUOTE] Great post

12-29-2011, 04:19 PM	#38
JStokes Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bergen County, NJ Posts: 20,126	[QUOTE=SMC;4298411]The bolded illustrates that some people simply don't get it. Sanchez is a 3rd yr player who is learning and growing through on-the-job training. In order to continue that growth so that he can eventually be a bona fide franchise QB, the Jets needed to maintain a level of play around him so as not to retard his growth, but that's exactly what happened. The Jets put the single worst tackle in the NFL on the right side and took away receiver speed. The Jets retarded Sanchez' development and this season is the result. The goal is for Sanchez to become a franchise QB (like most franchise QBs are in their late 20s and early 30s). He's not one now and at just turned 25 he shouldn't expected to be one.[/QUOTE] Can you just stop with your stunning use of logic and reason? Seriously, you're messing up the debate with all you well thought out analysis. Stop it. _

12-29-2011, 04:21 PM	#39
JStokes Hall Of Fame Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Bergen County, NJ Posts: 20,126	[QUOTE=SMC;4298450]Why don't you wait a bit on Dalton because you and others pulled this same stuff with Freeman last year. No one mentions Freeman now. And, no, QBs aren't expected to be franchise QBs in year 3. Brees wasn't. Eli wasn't. Rodgers hadn't even started a game yet in year 3.[/QUOTE] And Flacco continues to improve by leaps and bounds EVERY year. He shoulda made the pro-bowl this year. _

12-29-2011, 04:27 PM	#40
SONNY WERBLIN Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,359	[url]http://nyjetscap.com/Schottenheimer.html[/url] This is a link to a very enlightening analysis of How Schotty's offense seems to put QB's in difficult down/distance postiion at an alarming rate. [QUOTE]Sanchez vs Ryan vs Flacco: 3rd Down Playcalls Quarterback \| %3rd<2 \| % Passes 3rd<2 \| 3rd Dwn Convn % Sanchez \| 12.2 \| [COLOR="Red"]54.5[/COLOR] \| 37 Ryan \| 24.2 \| 16.0 \| 43 Flacco \| 15.4 \| 18.2 \| 41 [/QUOTE] Why in the world would you call a pass play on 3d and less than two 54.% of the time???