The NFL has evolved beyond "Ground and Pound"

Schroy48 · 03-03-2012, 03:34 PM

It's pretty obvious that the NFL is (howver slowly) evolving.

The profit motive is always there, the entertainment factor is always there as well...

But, what Lord "I determine the integrity of the NFL" [B]God[/B]dell wants by now is something pretty clear:

1) He wants a CLEAN game. Not only in appearance with the disappearance of mud and grass, but, in the play on the field. He doesn't want any Jack Tatum's, Ted Hendrick's, Lester Hayes', "Hollywood Henderson's", or now - "Bounty Hunter's" down in New Orleans. Maybe that's part of the reason why in the last 10 years the Raiders and Cowboys havent done that well in the playoffs.

2) He wants a faster game with fewer penalties. More like the old AFL or Arena League. Passing = excitement. The Packers of 2011 would have been unrecognizable back in 1961, 1971, 1981, or 1991. Lombardi would have never allowed Favre or Rogers to air it out like now.

3) And, to maximize your passing game, you need to have a QB who is healthy. So, God forbid you lay a pinky on the stars who throw the pigskin now. And, you better have the ability to have a vertical game. If you do, the refs will help you - trust us.

If it were up to Goddell, every Super Bowl would cover the "over", and be a cleanly fought game with enough points to keep every borderline fan glued to the tv when commercials aren't on. No blowouts. Let the refs make the calls to help give Goddell that "close clean game" he wants. Don't forget the SB refs are the best after all.

The man does not want a vicious defense, that might take out a star QB in the first quarter, and a ball-control passer on the other side who only passes when forced to and let's his D eat up the clock. It's just bad for ratings. Ironically, that's how Joe Willie changed the league, but, that's another story.

I submit to you two ideas:

I) Sanchez might be made to order for Rex' system under Sporano, but, it's not what the NFL wants and the NFL will do everything it can to make sure that "Super Bowl" doesn't happen.

II) Rex, as much as I like him, especially after the special-ed Belichickesque "Manginious", may NOT be the coach we need for 2013 and beyond. We will need another offensive system, closer to that of the old AFL or today's Arena League, and probably a faster defense overall, that is less "Baltimore Part II" and more J-E-T-S - as in FAST :yes:

Discuss.

Greentide · 03-03-2012, 03:40 PM

Don't care how you dress a "hog", it's still going to be a hog. Football has and still is all about winning the war in the trenches. He who wins the most battles typically wins the war regardless of the weapons used in battle.

Dimitri_0515 · 03-03-2012, 03:49 PM

Ok Schroy, who do you want as a QB?

John_0515 · 03-03-2012, 03:51 PM

One catch and one fumble from not even having this discussion.

JetsFanatic · 03-03-2012, 03:52 PM

We return to ground & pound!!

Our QBs will be Sanchez with either Henne or Campbell as No.2 and McElroy No.3.

Laxman · 03-03-2012, 03:55 PM

The league doesn't protect ALL the qb's..... just ask Sanchez, who has led the league in fineable hits that have not been called penalties in games. The league protects it's perceived "stars".... on both sides of the ball.
The Jets offense does NOT need to evolve to an "air it out" style of attack. It has been proven, over and over, that a good defense and an all around offense will win Super Bowls. The Patriots throw all the time.... haven't won since they had a good defense, solid running game, and the other team's plays. The Colts have "aired it out" for years.... their one SB win, they had a good D and a solid running game. The Giants can "air it out".... but they didn't go on their SB runs until the D and running game came around. The Packers throw a lot.... what happened when a defense took that away and there was no running came to pick them up? I can keep going on, but I think the point is made.... There is NO substitute for a good DEFENSE and a solid ALL-AROUND OFFENSE.

bigdanNJ · 03-03-2012, 04:13 PM

well if the jets want to get to and win the SB, the better air it out. ground and pound is done in the NFL. time for rex to wake up

sg3 · 03-03-2012, 04:17 PM

new poll request please....

Should Schroy48 be allowed to continue to start new threads and polls

a) yes

b) NO NO GOD NO

Beerfish · 03-03-2012, 04:45 PM

The jets tried to go past ground and pound last year because they thought their oc and QB were ready to take the team to new heights. They were wrong on both accounts and now it is back to ground and pound, which will only ever work if we construct a hall of fame type of defense rather than just a very very good one.

Apache 51 · 03-03-2012, 05:12 PM

You actually have to Ground and Pound, to be Ground and Pound.

Dunnie · 03-03-2012, 05:36 PM

[QUOTE=Beerfish;4383139]The jets tried to go past ground and pound last year because they thought their oc and QB were ready to take the team to new heights. They were wrong on both accounts and now it is back to ground and pound, which will only ever work if we construct a hall of fame type of defense rather than just a very very good one.[/QUOTE]

+1quadrillion

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

JB1089 · 03-03-2012, 05:44 PM

[QUOTE=John_0515;4383083]One catch and one fumble from not even having this discussion.[/QUOTE]

Pretty much.

Gastineau99 · 03-03-2012, 05:48 PM

You can still win in the NFL by running the ball and playing great Defense. Jets are better off sticking to that formula, rather than trying to do something they aren't built to do.

We are a lot closer to building a tremendous Defense that can dominate, than we are to transforming Sanchez into Tom Brady.

jetssjumets · 03-03-2012, 07:10 PM

[QUOTE=bigdanNJ;4383097]well if the jets want to get to and win the SB, the better air it out. ground and pound is done in the NFL. time for rex to wake up[/QUOTE]

Totally disagree. Defense along with a good running game will win more often than not. As John 0515 so eloquently posted, we were one catch and fumble away from not having this discussion.

The OP should stop making threads, please.

Schroy48 · 03-03-2012, 07:16 PM

[QUOTE=Dimitri_0515;4383082]Ok Schroy, who do you want as a QB?[/QUOTE]

[B]I WILL GIVE MARK ONE MORE YEAR ***REGARDLESS*** OF HOW THE OL AND D PLAY. 3 YEARS IS ENOUGH TO EVALUATE - 4 IS BEYOND GENEROUS.[/B]

If Schitty likes Mark so much, then, let's trade for Bradford by Oct. 1 - given each get off to mediocre performances. Let Schitty tell the league what he REALLY thinks of Mark by trading or NOT trading for him ;)

I would like to see genuine pressure put on Mark. I would be willing to waste 2 picks this year (if we dont already waste picks going for Richardson) and draft QB's in the 4th and 5th rounds - QB's with down field talent - no "noodle armed brainiacs" ;) THEN, draft a QB in round 1 next year whether Mark is here or not. We need to rebuild for two seasons at the QB position in case of injury to the starting QB - whoever that might be.

Here's an out of the box idea... The Bills QB would be a great fit if they ever tire of him up in Buffalo. Just a thought. Guy has experience and all the tools - except perhaps great legs.

Play2Win · 03-03-2012, 07:23 PM

[QUOTE=Apache 51;4383169]You actually have to Ground and Pound, to be Ground and Pound.[/QUOTE]

that's a different discussion for a different topics. as is ground and pound can win but you have to be more than adequate throwing the ball.

jetssjumets · 03-03-2012, 07:23 PM

[QUOTE=Schroy48;4383241][B]I WILL GIVE MARK ONE MORE YEAR ***REGARDLESS*** OF HOW THE OL AND D PLAY. 3 YEARS IS ENOUGH TO EVALUATE - 4 IS BEYOND GENEROUS.[/B]

If Schitty likes Mark so much, then, let's trade for Bradford by Oct. 1 - given each get off to mediocre performances. Let Schitty tell the league what he REALLY thinks of Mark by trading or NOT trading for him ;)

I would like to see genuine pressure put on Mark. I would be willing to waste 2 picks this year (if we dont already waste picks going for Richardson) and draft QB's in the 4th and 5th rounds - QB's with down field talent - no "noodle armed brainiacs" ;) THEN, draft a QB in round 1 next year whether Mark is here or not. We need to rebuild for two seasons at the QB position in case of injury to the starting QB - whoever that might be.

Here's an out of the box idea... The Bills QB would be a great fit if they ever tire of him up in Buffalo. Just a thought. Guy has experience and all the tools - except perhaps great legs.[/QUOTE]

OMG, am I reading this correctly? In all due respects, this has to be the dumbest post I've read on this site -- and that is saying something!! Please tell me you are freaking joking and just trying to garner a response? Because, if you are not, then you really should stop posting.

Ohio State NY Jets fan · 03-03-2012, 09:56 PM

In 93 or 94, I was sold on ground and pound, it was 4th and 1, Madden (the game announcer) told everyone watching the game that E. Smith was getting the call and there was nothing anyone could do about it, he was right and Touchdown...

There are many ways to beat another football team but to physically dominate the line and impose your will running the ball will always be the best, that defines football IMHO

Dimitri_0515 · 03-03-2012, 10:03 PM

[QUOTE=Schroy48;4383241][B]I WILL GIVE MARK ONE MORE YEAR ***REGARDLESS*** OF HOW THE OL AND D PLAY. 3 YEARS IS ENOUGH TO EVALUATE - 4 IS BEYOND GENEROUS.[/B]

If Schitty likes Mark so much, then, let's trade for Bradford by Oct. 1 - given each get off to mediocre performances. Let Schitty tell the league what he REALLY thinks of Mark by trading or NOT trading for him ;)

I would like to see genuine pressure put on Mark. I would be willing to waste 2 picks this year (if we dont already waste picks going for Richardson) and draft QB's in the 4th and 5th rounds - QB's with down field talent - no "noodle armed brainiacs" ;) THEN, draft a QB in round 1 next year whether Mark is here or not. We need to rebuild for two seasons at the QB position in case of injury to the starting QB - whoever that might be.

Here's an out of the box idea... The Bills QB would be a great fit if they ever tire of him up in Buffalo. Just a thought. Guy has experience and all the tools - except perhaps great legs.[/QUOTE]

This guy can't be real

tfine350z · 03-03-2012, 10:30 PM

[QUOTE=Schroy48;4383241][B]I WILL GIVE MARK ONE MORE YEAR ***REGARDLESS*** OF HOW THE OL AND D PLAY. 3 YEARS IS ENOUGH TO EVALUATE - 4 IS BEYOND GENEROUS.[/B]

If Schitty likes Mark so much, then, let's trade for Bradford by Oct. 1 - given each get off to mediocre performances. Let Schitty tell the league what he REALLY thinks of Mark by trading or NOT trading for him ;)

I would like to see genuine pressure put on Mark. I would be willing to waste 2 picks this year (if we dont already waste picks going for Richardson) and draft QB's in the 4th and 5th rounds - QB's with down field talent - no "noodle armed brainiacs" ;) THEN, draft a QB in round 1 next year whether Mark is here or not. We need to rebuild for two seasons at the QB position in case of injury to the starting QB - whoever that might be.

Here's an out of the box idea... The Bills QB would be a great fit if they ever tire of him up in Buffalo. Just a thought. Guy has experience and all the tools - except perhaps great legs.[/QUOTE]

Crack is some bad ****...

View Poll Results: The NFL has evolved beyond the "Ground and Pound"
We need to evolve along with what has been the trends on both offense and defense	16	45.71%
We need to get back to "our thing": The Ground and Pound (regardless of trends)	19	54.29%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

03-03-2012, 03:34 PM	#1
Schroy48 aka JETMAN73 - Your friendly neighbor in the next section ;) Banned Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,910	The NFL has evolved beyond "Ground and Pound" It's pretty obvious that the NFL is (howver slowly) evolving. The profit motive is always there, the entertainment factor is always there as well... But, what Lord "I determine the integrity of the NFL" [B]God[/B]dell wants by now is something pretty clear: 1) He wants a CLEAN game. Not only in appearance with the disappearance of mud and grass, but, in the play on the field. He doesn't want any Jack Tatum's, Ted Hendrick's, Lester Hayes', "Hollywood Henderson's", or now - "Bounty Hunter's" down in New Orleans. Maybe that's part of the reason why in the last 10 years the Raiders and Cowboys havent done that well in the playoffs. 2) He wants a faster game with fewer penalties. More like the old AFL or Arena League. Passing = excitement. The Packers of 2011 would have been unrecognizable back in 1961, 1971, 1981, or 1991. Lombardi would have never allowed Favre or Rogers to air it out like now. 3) And, to maximize your passing game, you need to have a QB who is healthy. So, God forbid you lay a pinky on the stars who throw the pigskin now. And, you better have the ability to have a vertical game. If you do, the refs will help you - trust us. If it were up to Goddell, every Super Bowl would cover the "over", and be a cleanly fought game with enough points to keep every borderline fan glued to the tv when commercials aren't on. No blowouts. Let the refs make the calls to help give Goddell that "close clean game" he wants. Don't forget the SB refs are the best after all. The man does not want a vicious defense, that might take out a star QB in the first quarter, and a ball-control passer on the other side who only passes when forced to and let's his D eat up the clock. It's just bad for ratings. Ironically, that's how Joe Willie changed the league, but, that's another story. I submit to you two ideas: I) Sanchez might be made to order for Rex' system under Sporano, but, it's not what the NFL wants and the NFL will do everything it can to make sure that "Super Bowl" doesn't happen. II) Rex, as much as I like him, especially after the special-ed Belichickesque "Manginious", may NOT be the coach we need for 2013 and beyond. We will need another offensive system, closer to that of the old AFL or today's Arena League, and probably a faster defense overall, that is less "Baltimore Part II" and more J-E-T-S - as in FAST :yes: Discuss. Last edited by Schroy48; 03-03-2012 at 03:53 PM.

03-03-2012, 03:40 PM	#2
Greentide Practice Squad Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 386	Don't care how you dress a "hog", it's still going to be a hog. Football has and still is all about winning the war in the trenches. He who wins the most battles typically wins the war regardless of the weapons used in battle.

03-03-2012, 03:49 PM	#3
Dimitri_0515 Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 11,182	Ok Schroy, who do you want as a QB?

03-03-2012, 03:51 PM	#4
John_0515 Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 21,217	One catch and one fumble from not even having this discussion.

03-03-2012, 03:52 PM	#5
JetsFanatic When you listen to the fans, you sit with the fans! Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,979	We return to ground & pound!! Our QBs will be Sanchez with either Henne or Campbell as No.2 and McElroy No.3.

03-03-2012, 03:55 PM	#6
Laxman Lookin' for a shred of logic Undrafted Free Agent Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 205	The league doesn't protect ALL the qb's..... just ask Sanchez, who has led the league in fineable hits that have not been called penalties in games. The league protects it's perceived "stars".... on both sides of the ball. The Jets offense does NOT need to evolve to an "air it out" style of attack. It has been proven, over and over, that a good defense and an all around offense will win Super Bowls. The Patriots throw all the time.... haven't won since they had a good defense, solid running game, and the other team's plays. The Colts have "aired it out" for years.... their one SB win, they had a good D and a solid running game. The Giants can "air it out".... but they didn't go on their SB runs until the D and running game came around. The Packers throw a lot.... what happened when a defense took that away and there was no running came to pick them up? I can keep going on, but I think the point is made.... There is NO substitute for a good DEFENSE and a solid ALL-AROUND OFFENSE.

03-03-2012, 04:13 PM	#7
bigdanNJ Veteran Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,165	well if the jets want to get to and win the SB, the better air it out. ground and pound is done in the NFL. time for rex to wake up

03-03-2012, 04:17 PM	#8
sg3 REX AND THE I-MAN - BACK ON TRACK Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The Big Apple, USA Posts: 20,898	new poll request please.... Should Schroy48 be allowed to continue to start new threads and polls a) yes b) NO NO GOD NO

03-03-2012, 04:45 PM	#9
Beerfish Hall Of Fame Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 19,116	The jets tried to go past ground and pound last year because they thought their oc and QB were ready to take the team to new heights. They were wrong on both accounts and now it is back to ground and pound, which will only ever work if we construct a hall of fame type of defense rather than just a very very good one.

03-03-2012, 05:12 PM	#10
Apache 51 Let's Kill them all......... Hall Of Fame Join Date: May 2009 Location: In Morris Co.,N.J.,at the right end of a Browning 12 gauge Posts: 12,822	You actually have to Ground and Pound, to be Ground and Pound.

03-03-2012, 05:36 PM	#11
Dunnie still waiting ... All League Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 4,219	[QUOTE=Beerfish;4383139]The jets tried to go past ground and pound last year because they thought their oc and QB were ready to take the team to new heights. They were wrong on both accounts and now it is back to ground and pound, which will only ever work if we construct a hall of fame type of defense rather than just a very very good one.[/QUOTE] +1quadrillion Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

03-03-2012, 05:44 PM	#12
JB1089 Now is the time... All Pro Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 5,740	[QUOTE=John_0515;4383083]One catch and one fumble from not even having this discussion.[/QUOTE] Pretty much.

03-03-2012, 05:48 PM	#13
Gastineau99 Section 135 All Pro Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,349	You can still win in the NFL by running the ball and playing great Defense. Jets are better off sticking to that formula, rather than trying to do something they aren't built to do. We are a lot closer to building a tremendous Defense that can dominate, than we are to transforming Sanchez into Tom Brady.

03-03-2012, 07:10 PM	#14
jetssjumets Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 3,033	[QUOTE=bigdanNJ;4383097]well if the jets want to get to and win the SB, the better air it out. ground and pound is done in the NFL. time for rex to wake up[/QUOTE] Totally disagree. Defense along with a good running game will win more often than not. As John 0515 so eloquently posted, we were one catch and fumble away from not having this discussion. The OP should stop making threads, please.

03-03-2012, 07:16 PM	#15
Schroy48 aka JETMAN73 - Your friendly neighbor in the next section ;) Banned Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,910	[QUOTE=Dimitri_0515;4383082]Ok Schroy, who do you want as a QB?[/QUOTE] [B]I WILL GIVE MARK ONE MORE YEAR *REGARDLESS* OF HOW THE OL AND D PLAY. 3 YEARS IS ENOUGH TO EVALUATE - 4 IS BEYOND GENEROUS.[/B] If Schitty likes Mark so much, then, let's trade for Bradford by Oct. 1 - given each get off to mediocre performances. Let Schitty tell the league what he REALLY thinks of Mark by trading or NOT trading for him ;) I would like to see genuine pressure put on Mark. I would be willing to waste 2 picks this year (if we dont already waste picks going for Richardson) and draft QB's in the 4th and 5th rounds - QB's with down field talent - no "noodle armed brainiacs" ;) THEN, draft a QB in round 1 next year whether Mark is here or not. We need to rebuild for two seasons at the QB position in case of injury to the starting QB - whoever that might be. Here's an out of the box idea... The Bills QB would be a great fit if they ever tire of him up in Buffalo. Just a thought. Guy has experience and all the tools - except perhaps great legs.

03-03-2012, 07:23 PM	#16
Play2Win Act as if... Veteran Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Long Island Posts: 1,508	[QUOTE=Apache 51;4383169]You actually have to Ground and Pound, to be Ground and Pound.[/QUOTE] that's a different discussion for a different topics. as is ground and pound can win but you have to be more than adequate throwing the ball.

03-03-2012, 09:56 PM	#18
Ohio State NY Jets fan Veteran Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 1,994	In 93 or 94, I was sold on ground and pound, it was 4th and 1, Madden (the game announcer) told everyone watching the game that E. Smith was getting the call and there was nothing anyone could do about it, he was right and Touchdown... There are many ways to beat another football team but to physically dominate the line and impose your will running the ball will always be the best, that defines football IMHO

03-03-2012, 10:03 PM	#19
Dimitri_0515 Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 11,182	[QUOTE=Schroy48;4383241][B]I WILL GIVE MARK ONE MORE YEAR *REGARDLESS* OF HOW THE OL AND D PLAY. 3 YEARS IS ENOUGH TO EVALUATE - 4 IS BEYOND GENEROUS.[/B] If Schitty likes Mark so much, then, let's trade for Bradford by Oct. 1 - given each get off to mediocre performances. Let Schitty tell the league what he REALLY thinks of Mark by trading or NOT trading for him ;) I would like to see genuine pressure put on Mark. I would be willing to waste 2 picks this year (if we dont already waste picks going for Richardson) and draft QB's in the 4th and 5th rounds - QB's with down field talent - no "noodle armed brainiacs" ;) THEN, draft a QB in round 1 next year whether Mark is here or not. We need to rebuild for two seasons at the QB position in case of injury to the starting QB - whoever that might be. Here's an out of the box idea... The Bills QB would be a great fit if they ever tire of him up in Buffalo. Just a thought. Guy has experience and all the tools - except perhaps great legs.[/QUOTE] This guy can't be real

03-03-2012, 10:30 PM	#20
tfine350z looking for a new avatar Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,123	[QUOTE=Schroy48;4383241][B]I WILL GIVE MARK ONE MORE YEAR *REGARDLESS* OF HOW THE OL AND D PLAY. 3 YEARS IS ENOUGH TO EVALUATE - 4 IS BEYOND GENEROUS.[/B] If Schitty likes Mark so much, then, let's trade for Bradford by Oct. 1 - given each get off to mediocre performances. Let Schitty tell the league what he REALLY thinks of Mark by trading or NOT trading for him ;) I would like to see genuine pressure put on Mark. I would be willing to waste 2 picks this year (if we dont already waste picks going for Richardson) and draft QB's in the 4th and 5th rounds - QB's with down field talent - no "noodle armed brainiacs" ;) THEN, draft a QB in round 1 next year whether Mark is here or not. We need to rebuild for two seasons at the QB position in case of injury to the starting QB - whoever that might be. Here's an out of the box idea... The Bills QB would be a great fit if they ever tire of him up in Buffalo. Just a thought. Guy has experience and all the tools - except perhaps great legs.[/QUOTE] Crack is some bad ****...