Ian O'Connor: Forget Manning, stick with Sanchez

[PMarsico9]

[QUOTE=sec.101row23;4387163]Your comparing a RT with a QB in terms of development and value to a franchise? I would also bet that if that RT was drafted 5th overall he would also be given time.[/QUOTE]

Gallery got two years then a kick to dumpster.

He was drafted #2 overall and his position was switched 3 years later.

Sanchez isn't the same bust he was, but that doesn't mean that Sanchez ever projects to being what is needed to win a Super Bowl in today's league........which at the LOWEST POSSIBLE LEVEL is what Matt Stafford put up this year statistically..........

Also: Gallery was the highest rated offensive line prospect in HISTORY.

[DDNYjets]

Funny thing is I think if someone put a gun to the head of all the Sanchez apologists, they would say Peyton gives the team a better chance at winning a SB.

Your life is on the line, who are you giving the ball to? Sanchez or Manning?

Live for today mothaphkerz ;)

[sec.101row23]

[QUOTE=PMarsico9;4387182]Gallery got two years then a kick to dumpster.

He was drafted #2 overall and his position was switched 3 years later.

Sanchez isn't the same bust he was, but that doesn't mean that Sanchez ever projects to being what is needed to win a Super Bowl in today's league........which at the LOWEST POSSIBLE LEVEL is what Matt Stafford put up this year statistically..........

Also: Gallery was the highest rated offensive line prospect in HISTORY.[/QUOTE]

So Sanchez is Robert Gallery now??

Also your facts are wrong on Gallery. He played RT for 2 season, then they moved him to LT, then moved him to guard. He played 4 seasons with the Raiders.

So you can see it takes a lot for teams to give up on very high draft picks.

[PMarsico9]

[QUOTE=sec.101row23;4387212]So Sanchez is Robert Gallery now??

Also your facts are wrong on Gallery. He played RT for 2 season, then they moved him to LT, then moved him to guard. He played 4 seasons with the Raiders.

So you can see it takes a lot for teams to give up on very high draft picks.[/QUOTE]

No, if you can't get Manning OR he's not 100% healthy, then you keep Sanchez. When he confirms nearly every expert's projection next year and his best numbers are what Alex Smith did this year, then you either cut ties or you perpetuate the incorrect idea that playing defense and running the ball can win you a title.

That hasn't worked since 2000 with arguably the best defense in history.

I personally hope Tannenbaum has more sense than the 49ers GM if Sanchez doesn't turn into Stafford.........

[sec.101row23]

[QUOTE=PMarsico9;4387224]No, if you can't get Manning OR he's not 100% healthy, then you keep Sanchez. When he confirms nearly every expert's projection next year and his best numbers are what Alex Smith did this year, then you either cut ties or you perpetuate the incorrect idea that playing defense and running the ball can win you a title.

That hasn't worked since 2000 with arguably the best defense in history.

I personally hope Tannenbaum has more sense than the 49ers GM if Sanchez doesn't turn into Stafford.........[/QUOTE]

My point is that you cant keep changing directions every 3 seasons. You have to have a plan and execute it. Teams do not give up on young highly drafted QBs after 3 seasons. Your attempt to bring up Gallery actually proves my point. Even a bust like him was given 4 seasons and multiple positions to prove himself.

[FMJets]

He forgot 6 rushing TDs to Eli's 0, which is a lot. In fact in a head to head match up this year Eli was the worst QB on the field. 9 for 27 and thew a pick when he had the chance to put the Jets away. Mark played with guts and passion trying to beat a team that was superior in almost every way.

[Savage69]

[QUOTE=sec.101row23;4387257]My point is that you cant keep changing directions every 3 seasons. You have to have a plan and execute it. [B]Teams do not give up on young highly drafted QBs after 3 seasons[/B]. Your attempt to bring up Gallery actually proves my point. Even a bust like him was given 4 seasons and multiple positions to prove himself.[/QUOTE]

First pick in the 05 draft Alex Smith finally had a good year last season..

[Austin]

[QUOTE=Untouchable;4387145]No, it's the complete opposite. [B]My point is YOU KEEP TRYING until you find your guy.[/B]If the Jets don't see Sanchez making significant improvement under Sparano, then move on. No sense in treading water for another 2-3 years with a guy who you don't view as the longterm franchise signal caller.[/QUOTE]

I agree with this, as I think most do.

The question is simply have we really seen enough from Sanchez to know he's NOT "the guy?"

My confidence in him isn't super high, but I've seen enough flashes of brilliance from him that I just can't give up yet. He's still a guy whose shown a tendency to make big plays late in games and in the playoffs.

I really think it's unfair not to give him a shot in a non-Schotty offense.

[augustiniak]

[QUOTE=Austin;4387274]I agree with this, as I think most do.

The question is simply have we really seen enough from Sanchez to know he's NOT "the guy?"

My confidence in him isn't super high, but I've seen enough flashes of brilliance from him that I just can't give up yet. He's still a guy whose shown a tendency to make big plays late in games and in the playoffs.

I really think it's unfair not to give him a shot in a non-Schotty offense.[/QUOTE]

maybe schotty basically told rex/tanny that sanchez can't get much better, his parting schott for sanchez basically forcing him to leave.

[PMarsico9]

[QUOTE=sec.101row23;4387257]My point is that you cant keep changing directions every 3 seasons. You have to have a plan and execute it. Teams do not give up on young highly drafted QBs after 3 seasons. Your attempt to bring up Gallery actually proves my point. Even a bust like him was given 4 seasons and multiple positions to prove himself.[/QUOTE]

My point is that if the generation's best QB is available and healthy and you can get him then you get him. You are over thinking yourself here.

Don't fall into the trap thinking you should ever plan for the future in this league unless you are ready to do it organization-wide (like the Colts are).

[shevys]

Originally Posted by PMarsico9

Gallery got two years then a kick to dumpster.

He was drafted #2 overall and his position was switched 3 years later.

Sanchez isn't the same bust he was, but that doesn't mean that Sanchez ever projects to being what is needed to win a Super Bowl in today's league........which at the LOWEST POSSIBLE LEVEL is what Matt Stafford put up this year statistically..........

Also: Gallery was the highest rated offensive line prospect in HISTORY.

[QUOTE=sec.101row23;4387212]So Sanchez is Robert Gallery now??

Also your facts are wrong on Gallery. He played RT for 2 season, then they moved him to LT, then moved him to guard. He played 4 seasons with the Raiders.

So you can see it takes a lot for teams to give up on very high draft picks.[/QUOTE]

Some people would never let the facts get in the way of their agenda. PShrimp9 is a perfect example of that.

[SMC]

[QUOTE=PMarsico9;4387182]Gallery got two years then a kick to dumpster.

He was drafted #2 overall and his position was switched 3 years later.

Sanchez isn't the same bust he was, but that doesn't mean that Sanchez ever projects to being what is needed to win a Super Bowl in today's league........[B]which at the LOWEST POSSIBLE LEVEL is what Matt Stafford put up this year statistically[/B]..........

Also: Gallery was the highest rated offensive line prospect in HISTORY.[/QUOTE]

What are you talking about? No QB who has passed for 5,000 yards that season has won a SB.

But Stafford passing for 5,000 yds is the "lowest possible level" to what is needed to win a SB?

Yeah, you can say the Jets should get rid of Sanchez for a healthy Peyton, but saying that any QB has to do what Stafford did (which only 5 other QBs have done) as the lowest possible level for SB success is ridiculous.

[PMarsico9]

[QUOTE=SMC;4387290]What are you talking about? No QB who has passed for 5,000 yards that season has won a SB.

But Stafford passing for 5,000 yds is the "lowest possible level" to what is needed to win a SB?

Yeah, you can say the Jets should get rid of Sanchez for a healthy Peyton, but saying that any QB has to do what Stafford did (which only 5 other QBs have done) as the lowest possible level for SB success is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

No QB who hasn't developed into a 4,000 yard passer has won a Super Bowl since 2003.

Last year, all the teams that were in the playoffs had top 10 passer rating QB's with the exception of Denver. Houston doesn't count because Schaub was arguably a top 5 QB prior to his injury last season.

Sorry to not pay attention to any facts other than those that matter.

[B]Every team that's won the Super Bowl since 2003 has had an elite QB. [/B]

Even if the QB that particular year wasn't elite, there's no arguing that Roethlisberger, Rodgers, both Mannings, Brees, and Brady are the absolute upper echelon of the NFL's QB's.

They also reflect winners of every Super Bowl since 2003. That's 9 years. And the rules have changed since then to favor QB's even more!

My point regarding Stafford is that he has a 4,000 yard season under his belt now with 30+ TDs. He is on a short list of guys who immediately make their team a title contender.

Alex Smith is certainly not and if you think the Niners can win a Super Bowl with Smith then you are ignoring what really is the only stat that matters: Who won the Super Bowl and who was their QB?

Sanchez is young enough to still turn into Stafford, but if he doesn't and you think it's OK and realistic to win today without some guy able to pick you up 400 yards of offense on his own, then you aren't really paying attention to reality.

[augustiniak]

[QUOTE=PMarsico9;4387325]No QB who hasn't developed into a 4,000 yard passer has won a Super Bowl since 2003.

Last year, all the teams that were in the playoffs had top 10 passer rating QB's with the exception of Denver. Houston doesn't count because Schaub was arguably a top 5 QB prior to his injury last season.

Sorry to not pay attention to any facts other than those that matter.

[B]Every team that's won the Super Bowl since 2003 has had an elite QB. [/B]

Even if the QB that particular year wasn't elite, there's no arguing that Roethlisberger, Rodgers, both Mannings, Brees, and Brady are the absolute upper echelon of the NFL's QB's.

They also reflect winners of every Super Bowl since 2003. That's 9 years. And the rules have changed since then to favor QB's even more![/QUOTE]

yes, you need at least a very good qb to win a super bowl. but that's not all you need. the jets are not 'built to win now' anymore. they have way more holes than they did 2 yrs ago. you can't plug peyton, even a healthy peyton, onto this team and contend. and that's the problem here. the jets need to think longer term.

[Sec340]

[QUOTE=sg3;4387069]not often I agree with Ian O'Connor but I guess there is a first time for everything.[/QUOTE]

I am with you SG3. I can't stand the guy, but I agree with him on this one. Did we learn from Favre, a verteran QB likes theese guys need to be in the exact system they came from or there is a learning curve that could take 1/2 the season. Lets stick with Sanchez and fix all the things that need fixing. I just hope the Dolphins don't get him, that's all I care about.

[Untouchable]

[QUOTE=Austin;4387274]I agree with this, as I think most do.

The question is simply have we really seen enough from Sanchez to know he's NOT "the guy?"

My confidence in him isn't super high, but I've seen enough flashes of brilliance from him that I just can't give up yet. He's still a guy whose shown a tendency to make big plays late in games and in the playoffs.

I really think it's unfair not to give him a shot in a non-Schotty offense.[/QUOTE]

Guys like David Carr, Joey Harrington, and Rex Grossman showed "flashes of brilliance" at times as well. I mean, these guys are NFL QB's afterall. Even the bad ones will show signs of greatness here and there. Problem is, those guys didn't flash consistently enough and neither has Sanchez up to this point.

My biggest fear is that we stick with Sanchez this year and we see more of the same, which is entirely possible. As a result, we know that Sanchez isn't the longterm guy and it also spells the end of Rex and Tanny. So there we are in 2013 with no QB, no HC, and no GM. And in the meanwhile, guys like Revis, Mangold, Harris, and Brick are a year older and all the more closer to their prime years being behind them. And we won't have jacksh*t to show for it.

This team could be headed toward a fullblown rebuilding phase if Sanchez sh*ts the bed this year.

[PMarsico9]

[QUOTE=augustiniak;4387329]yes, you need at least a very good qb to win a super bowl. but that's not all you need. the jets are not 'built to win now' anymore. they have way more holes than they did 2 yrs ago. you can't plug peyton, even a healthy peyton, onto this team and contend. and that's the problem here. the jets need to think longer term.[/QUOTE]

Disagree. Again, recent history dictates that outside of Right Tackle the Jets roster could certainly beat anybody.

The teams with the best records in the AFC and NFC this season had the two bottom ranked defenses.

The Giants won the Super Bowl because they had a better defense than both the Pats and Pack but that was all their D-line. I wouldn't take ANYBODY from their secondary or LB corps over anybody on ours.

[carlito1171]

[QUOTE=Untouchable;4387084]I'm so goddamn tired of the Sanchez/Eli comparisons.

Are Mark's numbers similar to Eli's first three years? Yeah, and they're also very similar to Joey Harrington's first three years. Whoopty sh*t.[/QUOTE]

People use those comparisons not to say that Sanchez WILL BECOME Eli Manning....but to show that there is HOPE that he can have a productive career. Sanchez could very well become Manning, or he can become Joey Harrington....or somewhere in between..no one knows as of yet.

[augustiniak]

[QUOTE=PMarsico9;4387335]Disagree. Again, recent history dictates that outside of Right Tackle the Jets roster could certainly beat anybody. [/QUOTE]

besides center, cb and LT, the jets have no elite talent. harris is pretty good. this team is average.

[augustiniak]

[QUOTE=PMarsico9;4387335]I wouldn't take ANYBODY from their secondary or LB corps over anybody on ours.[/QUOTE]

just goes to show you what positions really matter on defense. if you have a very good pass rush you can get away with marginal talent in many other areas.