Addressing Safety vs. Not Addressing RT

Austin · 05-18-2012, 04:33 PM

Something I was thinking about...

Most Jets fans who watched the team last year saw a major weakness on each side of the ball (not counting the ever polarizing Mark Sanchez) -- safety (in particular Eric Smith) and RT (Wayne Hunter.)

The Jets have been very aggressive in improving the safety position. They have signed LaRon Landry (a former top ten pick) and Yeramiah Bell and drafted two promising late round sleepers (Antonio Allen and Josh Bush.) They went after Reggie Nelson (but didn't land him) but the message is clear -- our management and coaching staff agree that Eric Smith sucks and needs to be replaced. Leonhard too.

RT has obviously been the opposite -- we have made no effort to sign a RT thus far and our management and coaching staff have endorsed Wayne Hunter.

It may sound odd, but this is somewhat encouraging to me -- essentially that while Smith and Leonhard were problems talent wise team management has a strong reason to beleive that Hunter's problems are correctable and won't be an issue -- since this clearly isn't a case of apathy or inability to make a move (since they've been aggressive in improving our safeties) but a calculated decision.

Anyone else oddly encouraged?

Schaef · 05-18-2012, 04:56 PM

Not encouraged at all. Unfortunately neither Landry or Bell are good in coverage. They're both the same player, strong safeties that provide strong run support.

Who the hell is going to cover Gronkowski and Hernamdez or any other teams good receiving tight end over the middle?

Austin · 05-18-2012, 04:58 PM

[QUOTE=Schaef;4472314]Not encouraged at all. Unfortunately neither Landry or Bell are good in coverage. They're both the same player, strong safeties that provide strong run support.

Who the hell is going to cover Gronkowski and Hernamdez or any other teams good receiving tight end over the middle?[/QUOTE]

You're completely missing the point.

OCCH · 05-18-2012, 05:01 PM

Any offseason strategy has the potential to boom or bust -- only time will tell if ANY FO did a good job.

However, I refuse to compare this to the Adrian Clarke fiasco. If anything, that was LAST year -- a season where they went in with high hopes and found out they miscalculated by a WIDE margin.

However, what did they do after AC? They aggresively went after Faneca. What are they doing after last year? Purposely standing pat and making improvements everywhere else.

Personally, I don't think this means they're "sold" on Hunter/Ducasse, but that they think they can get by, and worst case they'll make a move next year (instead of forcing the issue this year).

Let's hope they're right . . .

CTJets69 · 05-18-2012, 05:07 PM

[QUOTE=Schaef;4472314]Not encouraged at all. Unfortunately neither Landry or Bell are good in coverage. They're both the same player, strong safeties that provide strong run support.

Who the hell is going to cover Gronkowski and Hernamdez or any other teams good receiving tight end over the middle?[/QUOTE]

Unless we traded up for Barron or threw 2 first rounders at one of the franchised safeties, there was no one out there this year that was a clear upgrade in the coverage department.

I believe Austin's original idea which you derailed was the emphasis to improve the safety spot vs. the RT spot, and how the Jets approached that in the off-season.

The safety spot will be completely rehauled this season, while the RT situation is the same. The reason for that is three-fold.

1. Other than overpaying for Eric Winston, not a lot out there in the RT department.
2. Vlad Ducasse. They drafted him in the 2nd round two years ago. There's no way they're getting rid of him.
3. Continuity on the O-Line. At the very worst, Hunter starts, and then you at least have the familiarity between the group.

To me, the Jets had immediate options at RT and a bare cupboard with the safety position. It's a gamble that I hope pays off.

ARodFLKeysJetsFan · 05-18-2012, 05:10 PM

[QUOTE=Austin;4472287]Something I was thinking about...

Most Jets fans who watched the team last year saw a major weakness on each side of the ball (not counting the ever polarizing Mark Sanchez) -- safety (in particular Eric Smith) and RT (Wayne Hunter.)

The Jets have been very aggressive in improving the safety position. They have signed LaRon Landry (a former top ten pick) and Yeramiah Bell and drafted two promising late round sleepers (Antonio Allen and Josh Bush.) They went after Reggie Nelson (but didn't land him) but the message is clear -- our management and coaching staff agree that Eric Smith sucks and needs to be replaced. Leonhard too.

RT has obviously been the opposite -- we have made no effort to sign a RT thus far and our management and coaching staff have endorsed Wayne Hunter.

It may sound odd, but this is somewhat encouraging to me -- essentially that while Smith and Leonhard were problems talent wise team management has a strong reason to beleive that Hunter's problems are correctable and won't be an issue -- since this clearly isn't a case of apathy or inability to make a move (since they've been aggressive in improving our safeties) but a calculated decision.

Anyone else oddly encouraged?[/QUOTE]

If Hunter's problems are correctable, so be it, but, I'm not convinced that's the case despite the glowing endorsement he received (somewhat prematurely) from our new O-line coach.

I said the same thing last year and I'll say it again this year.

I really hope this year we add a veteran O-Lineman (preferably with experience as a starter) for insurance in case Hunter stinks up the joint again.

Hopefully after June 1st cuts.

SizzleBear287 · 05-18-2012, 05:14 PM

It's disgusting how they're waiting for Sanchez to get injured to do anything about the O-line.

Ray Ray19 · 05-18-2012, 05:15 PM

[QUOTE=SizzleBear287;4472337]It's disgusting how they're waiting for Sanchez to get injured to do anything about the O-line.[/QUOTE]

I guess it would be disgusting, if that were actually the case. :rolleyes:

Buzzsaw · 05-18-2012, 05:22 PM

It would be good if Ducasse develops enough that he could replace Hunter if we see a repeat of Hunter's 2011 performance. Whichever one is playing, expect a TE lined up next to them A LOT

Buzzsaw · 05-18-2012, 05:31 PM

One more thought, it's unbelievable that our fat loudmouth offensive line coach promised that Hunter would be the starting RT. There should be a competition, and the team should be looking for any veterans that might get cut. Stupid thing to say.

ARodFLKeysJetsFan · 05-18-2012, 05:33 PM

[QUOTE=Buzzsaw;4472353]It would be good if Ducasse develops enough that he could replace Hunter if we see a repeat of Hunter's 2011 performance. Whichever one is playing, expect a TE lined up next to them A LOT[/QUOTE]

It would be good considering Vlad was originally drafted as the replacement for Damien Woody.

If Vlad doesn't show drastic improvement this year he's most likely gone, if he steps up, that's great but I don't think it's smart to be banking on it.

I'd feel better with a veteran O-Lineman (who we know can play at a competent level) as an insurance policy in case Vlad doesn't step up and Hunter still sucks.

Ray Ray19 · 05-18-2012, 05:40 PM

[QUOTE=Buzzsaw;4472358]One more thought, it's unbelievable that our fat loudmouth offensive line coach promised that Hunter would be the starting RT. There should be a competition, and the team should be looking for any veterans that might get cut. Stupid thing to say.[/QUOTE]

I kind of took his statements as his approach to giving Hunter the first shot at it, reinforce confidence in the incumbent starter, and let Hunter's performance dictate whether he actually earns the starting role or not during camp.

DDNYjets · 05-18-2012, 05:43 PM

Who needs a competent RT when you have coach Googs?

He has a ring.

Stupid Thread.

:rolleyes:

Buzzsaw · 05-18-2012, 05:45 PM

[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4472364]I kind of took his statements as his approach to giving Hunter the first shot at it, reinforce confidence in the incumbent starter, and let Hunter's performance dictate whether he actually earns the starting role or not during camp.[/QUOTE]

I hope so but he was so steadfast and adamant in what he said, something like "as long as I'm the coach Wayne Hunter will be the starting RT". He didn't leave himself a lot of wiggle room to get out of that. Besides, Ducasse deserves a shot, it should be an open competition.

ARodFLKeysJetsFan · 05-18-2012, 05:47 PM

[QUOTE=Buzzsaw;4472370]I hope so but he was so steadfast and adamant in what he said, something like "as long as I'm the coach Wayne Hunter will be the starting RT". He didn't leave himself a lot of wiggle room to get out of that. Besides, Ducasse deserves a shot, it should be an open competition.[/QUOTE]

He did say - "until they ship him out or I'm shot dead in my office"...LOL.

dickkotite · 05-18-2012, 05:51 PM

this is our #1 issue. it probably will come back to bite us unless something happens from cuts

gunnails · 05-18-2012, 05:55 PM

Well safety is all ways job one.

DDNYjets · 05-18-2012, 05:58 PM

It is laughable that they are hitching their wagons to Hunter and Ducasse.

Unless this is the biggest diversion of all-time, which I doubt.

GreenWave · 05-18-2012, 06:35 PM

[QUOTE=DDNYjets;4472384]It is laughable that they are hitching their wagons to Hunter and Ducasse.

Unless this is the biggest diversion of all-time, which I doubt.[/QUOTE]

I get your point, and you might ultimately be right, but it's only laughable if the combination of Sparano and Googs have the exact same coaching ability as Schotty and Callahan.

If there's one thing Hunter has, it's the physical skill to play the position. This isn't Jim Leonhard trying to Rudy his way into being a legitimate football player. This isn't trying to teach Eric Smith how to somehow run faster. Hunter has the build and showed (at times) the ability to be effective. Obviously this coaching staff thinks they can tap into that latter portion and cut out the awful mistakes Hunter was guilty of last year.

I'm with Austin - I do find it encouraging that the Jets did nothing in the FA market or the draft at RT...it means they think they may have the guy they need on the roster already. It would also explain them picking up the $2.5 million roster bonus in March that left all of our jaws on the floor. Maybe they were legitimately concerned that someone else was going to pick up Hunter - who knows?

iahawkeyejet · 05-18-2012, 07:01 PM

I am encouraged and here is why. Rex has been accused a lot of sticking with "his guys" to often and for too long. I think it says something that he replaced both Smith and Leonhard, who were certainly Rex's guys. It's encouraging that he realize things need to change. It also makes me feel better about the Hunter situation because his replacing of the Safties proves(to me at least) that they truely believe Hunter will improve and it isn't a loyalty driven decision.

05-18-2012, 05:10 PM	#6
ARodFLKeysJetsFan Jets GM John Idzik is handling business.... Hall Of Fame Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Currently Norfolk, VA.... Posts: 18,325	[QUOTE=Austin;4472287]Something I was thinking about... Most Jets fans who watched the team last year saw a major weakness on each side of the ball (not counting the ever polarizing Mark Sanchez) -- safety (in particular Eric Smith) and RT (Wayne Hunter.) The Jets have been very aggressive in improving the safety position. They have signed LaRon Landry (a former top ten pick) and Yeramiah Bell and drafted two promising late round sleepers (Antonio Allen and Josh Bush.) They went after Reggie Nelson (but didn't land him) but the message is clear -- our management and coaching staff agree that Eric Smith sucks and needs to be replaced. Leonhard too. RT has obviously been the opposite -- we have made no effort to sign a RT thus far and our management and coaching staff have endorsed Wayne Hunter. It may sound odd, but this is somewhat encouraging to me -- essentially that while Smith and Leonhard were problems talent wise team management has a strong reason to beleive that Hunter's problems are correctable and won't be an issue -- since this clearly isn't a case of apathy or inability to make a move (since they've been aggressive in improving our safeties) but a calculated decision. Anyone else oddly encouraged?[/QUOTE] If Hunter's problems are correctable, so be it, but, I'm not convinced that's the case despite the glowing endorsement he received (somewhat prematurely) from our new O-line coach. I said the same thing last year and I'll say it again this year. I really hope this year we add a veteran O-Lineman (preferably with experience as a starter) for insurance in case Hunter stinks up the joint again. Hopefully after June 1st cuts. Last edited by ARodFLKeysJetsFan; 05-18-2012 at 05:13 PM.

05-18-2012, 05:33 PM	#11
ARodFLKeysJetsFan Jets GM John Idzik is handling business.... Hall Of Fame Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Currently Norfolk, VA.... Posts: 18,325	[QUOTE=Buzzsaw;4472353]It would be good if Ducasse develops enough that he could replace Hunter if we see a repeat of Hunter's 2011 performance. Whichever one is playing, expect a TE lined up next to them A LOT[/QUOTE] It would be good considering Vlad was originally drafted as the replacement for Damien Woody. If Vlad doesn't show drastic improvement this year he's most likely gone, if he steps up, that's great but I don't think it's smart to be banking on it. I'd feel better with a veteran O-Lineman (who we know can play at a competent level) as an insurance policy in case Vlad doesn't step up and Hunter still sucks. Last edited by ARodFLKeysJetsFan; 05-18-2012 at 05:37 PM.

05-18-2012, 04:33 PM	#1
Austin WINNING All Pro Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Upper East Side Posts: 6,188	Addressing Safety vs. Not Addressing RT Something I was thinking about... Most Jets fans who watched the team last year saw a major weakness on each side of the ball (not counting the ever polarizing Mark Sanchez) -- safety (in particular Eric Smith) and RT (Wayne Hunter.) The Jets have been very aggressive in improving the safety position. They have signed LaRon Landry (a former top ten pick) and Yeramiah Bell and drafted two promising late round sleepers (Antonio Allen and Josh Bush.) They went after Reggie Nelson (but didn't land him) but the message is clear -- our management and coaching staff agree that Eric Smith sucks and needs to be replaced. Leonhard too. RT has obviously been the opposite -- we have made no effort to sign a RT thus far and our management and coaching staff have endorsed Wayne Hunter. It may sound odd, but this is somewhat encouraging to me -- essentially that while Smith and Leonhard were problems talent wise team management has a strong reason to beleive that Hunter's problems are correctable and won't be an issue -- since this clearly isn't a case of apathy or inability to make a move (since they've been aggressive in improving our safeties) but a calculated decision. Anyone else oddly encouraged?

05-18-2012, 04:56 PM	#2
Schaef Undrafted Free Agent Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 166	Not encouraged at all. Unfortunately neither Landry or Bell are good in coverage. They're both the same player, strong safeties that provide strong run support. Who the hell is going to cover Gronkowski and Hernamdez or any other teams good receiving tight end over the middle?

05-18-2012, 04:58 PM	#3
Austin WINNING All Pro Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Upper East Side Posts: 6,188	[QUOTE=Schaef;4472314]Not encouraged at all. Unfortunately neither Landry or Bell are good in coverage. They're both the same player, strong safeties that provide strong run support. Who the hell is going to cover Gronkowski and Hernamdez or any other teams good receiving tight end over the middle?[/QUOTE] You're completely missing the point.

05-18-2012, 05:01 PM	#4
OCCH glad I have more purpose in life than Jets football . . . Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 3,413	Any offseason strategy has the potential to boom or bust -- only time will tell if ANY FO did a good job. However, I refuse to compare this to the Adrian Clarke fiasco. If anything, that was LAST year -- a season where they went in with high hopes and found out they miscalculated by a WIDE margin. However, what did they do after AC? They aggresively went after Faneca. What are they doing after last year? Purposely standing pat and making improvements everywhere else. Personally, I don't think this means they're "sold" on Hunter/Ducasse, but that they think they can get by, and worst case they'll make a move next year (instead of forcing the issue this year). Let's hope they're right . . .

05-18-2012, 05:07 PM	#5
CTJets69 got no food, got no jobs, our birds HEADS ARE FALLIN OFF!!! Undrafted Free Agent Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 184	[QUOTE=Schaef;4472314]Not encouraged at all. Unfortunately neither Landry or Bell are good in coverage. They're both the same player, strong safeties that provide strong run support. Who the hell is going to cover Gronkowski and Hernamdez or any other teams good receiving tight end over the middle?[/QUOTE] Unless we traded up for Barron or threw 2 first rounders at one of the franchised safeties, there was no one out there this year that was a clear upgrade in the coverage department. I believe Austin's original idea which you derailed was the emphasis to improve the safety spot vs. the RT spot, and how the Jets approached that in the off-season. The safety spot will be completely rehauled this season, while the RT situation is the same. The reason for that is three-fold. 1. Other than overpaying for Eric Winston, not a lot out there in the RT department. 2. Vlad Ducasse. They drafted him in the 2nd round two years ago. There's no way they're getting rid of him. 3. Continuity on the O-Line. At the very worst, Hunter starts, and then you at least have the familiarity between the group. To me, the Jets had immediate options at RT and a bare cupboard with the safety position. It's a gamble that I hope pays off.

05-18-2012, 05:14 PM	#7
SizzleBear287 Veteran Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,409	It's disgusting how they're waiting for Sanchez to get injured to do anything about the O-line.

05-18-2012, 05:15 PM	#8
Ray Ray19 Not a SOJF Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 13,834	[QUOTE=SizzleBear287;4472337]It's disgusting how they're waiting for Sanchez to get injured to do anything about the O-line.[/QUOTE] I guess it would be disgusting, if that were actually the case. :rolleyes:

05-18-2012, 05:22 PM	#9
Buzzsaw Jets Insider VIP Board Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 26,305	It would be good if Ducasse develops enough that he could replace Hunter if we see a repeat of Hunter's 2011 performance. Whichever one is playing, expect a TE lined up next to them A LOT

05-18-2012, 05:31 PM	#10
Buzzsaw Jets Insider VIP Board Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 26,305	One more thought, it's unbelievable that our fat loudmouth offensive line coach promised that Hunter would be the starting RT. There should be a competition, and the team should be looking for any veterans that might get cut. Stupid thing to say.

05-18-2012, 05:40 PM	#12
Ray Ray19 Not a SOJF Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 13,834	[QUOTE=Buzzsaw;4472358]One more thought, it's unbelievable that our fat loudmouth offensive line coach promised that Hunter would be the starting RT. There should be a competition, and the team should be looking for any veterans that might get cut. Stupid thing to say.[/QUOTE] I kind of took his statements as his approach to giving Hunter the first shot at it, reinforce confidence in the incumbent starter, and let Hunter's performance dictate whether he actually earns the starting role or not during camp.

05-18-2012, 05:43 PM	#13
DDNYjets Bye week buh bye Rex Hall Of Fame Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: New York Posts: 12,300	Who needs a competent RT when you have coach Googs? He has a ring. Stupid Thread. :rolleyes:

05-18-2012, 05:45 PM	#14
Buzzsaw Jets Insider VIP Board Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 26,305	[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4472364]I kind of took his statements as his approach to giving Hunter the first shot at it, reinforce confidence in the incumbent starter, and let Hunter's performance dictate whether he actually earns the starting role or not during camp.[/QUOTE] I hope so but he was so steadfast and adamant in what he said, something like "as long as I'm the coach Wayne Hunter will be the starting RT". He didn't leave himself a lot of wiggle room to get out of that. Besides, Ducasse deserves a shot, it should be an open competition.

05-18-2012, 05:47 PM	#15
ARodFLKeysJetsFan Jets GM John Idzik is handling business.... Hall Of Fame Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Currently Norfolk, VA.... Posts: 18,325	[QUOTE=Buzzsaw;4472370]I hope so but he was so steadfast and adamant in what he said, something like "as long as I'm the coach Wayne Hunter will be the starting RT". He didn't leave himself a lot of wiggle room to get out of that. Besides, Ducasse deserves a shot, it should be an open competition.[/QUOTE] He did say - "until they ship him out or I'm shot dead in my office"...LOL.

05-18-2012, 05:51 PM	#16
dickkotite SAR1 is my son..... All Pro Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 8,331	this is our #1 issue. it probably will come back to bite us unless something happens from cuts

05-18-2012, 05:55 PM	#17
gunnails All League Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 4,519	Well safety is all ways job one.

05-18-2012, 05:58 PM	#18
DDNYjets Bye week buh bye Rex Hall Of Fame Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: New York Posts: 12,300	It is laughable that they are hitching their wagons to Hunter and Ducasse. Unless this is the biggest diversion of all-time, which I doubt.

05-18-2012, 06:35 PM	#19
GreenWave Veteran Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,401	[QUOTE=DDNYjets;4472384]It is laughable that they are hitching their wagons to Hunter and Ducasse. Unless this is the biggest diversion of all-time, which I doubt.[/QUOTE] I get your point, and you might ultimately be right, but it's only laughable if the combination of Sparano and Googs have the exact same coaching ability as Schotty and Callahan. If there's one thing Hunter has, it's the physical skill to play the position. This isn't Jim Leonhard trying to Rudy his way into being a legitimate football player. This isn't trying to teach Eric Smith how to somehow run faster. Hunter has the build and showed (at times) the ability to be effective. Obviously this coaching staff thinks they can tap into that latter portion and cut out the awful mistakes Hunter was guilty of last year. I'm with Austin - I do find it encouraging that the Jets did nothing in the FA market or the draft at RT...it means they think they may have the guy they need on the roster already. It would also explain them picking up the $2.5 million roster bonus in March that left all of our jaws on the floor. Maybe they were legitimately concerned that someone else was going to pick up Hunter - who knows?

05-18-2012, 07:01 PM	#20
iahawkeyejet On Iowa All League Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Iowa Posts: 3,651	I am encouraged and here is why. Rex has been accused a lot of sticking with "his guys" to often and for too long. I think it says something that he replaced both Smith and Leonhard, who were certainly Rex's guys. It's encouraging that he realize things need to change. It also makes me feel better about the Hunter situation because his replacing of the Safties proves(to me at least) that they truely believe Hunter will improve and it isn't a loyalty driven decision.