Stop Concussions - Ban Helmets

Digetydog · 05-28-2012, 07:09 PM

[url]http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntamny/2012/05/27/memo-to-the-nfl-to-reduce-concussions-ban-football-helmets/[/url]

Interesting Take on things.

VERMONT JET · 05-28-2012, 07:33 PM

Its such a load of crap. Roosevelt almost banned the game in the early 1900's because of all the deaths and those dudes weren't as large or fast as these guys are today.

FijiJet · 05-28-2012, 08:05 PM

It is an interesting take.

Rugby doesn't have helmets and while there are a few concussions, paralysis and even deaths from time to time it doesn't seem to be on the Nfl level. It could be that players feel more invincible in helmets and padding and are less inhibited to make risky plays and play aggressive.

Darth Vader · 05-28-2012, 08:16 PM

[QUOTE=FijiJet;4479190]It is an interesting take.

Rugby doesn't have helmets and while there are a few concussions, paralysis and even deaths from time to time it doesn't seem to be on the Nfl level. It could be that players feel more invincible in helmets and padding and are less inhibited to make risky plays and play aggressive.[/QUOTE]

totally different game, not as much repetitive explosive violence, from all angles

taking away helmets would be a disaster. they should take away rigid facemasks tho and replace the whole facemask-helmet apparatus with something truly revolutionary and space age

dameangreenkillingmachine · 05-28-2012, 08:24 PM

no way it would work. players would have to adjust to the style of play which would take a whole generation of football playing. i play rugby and a lot of former football players play on my team and tackle a lot like they were wearing helmets. and my team lost a lot of guys this year through concussions. and even some hits that these big nfl linebackers lay without leaning with their head, whiplashes the guy gettting tackled's head into the ground. it would be ugly. :eek::eek:

dameangreenkillingmachine · 05-28-2012, 08:26 PM

[QUOTE=FijiJet;4479190]It is an interesting take.

Rugby doesn't have helmets and while there are a few concussions, paralysis and even deaths from time to time it doesn't seem to be on the Nfl level. It could be that players feel more invincible in helmets and padding and are less inhibited to make risky plays and play aggressive.[/QUOTE]

rugby is more popular in other countries where people don't file lawsuits against anything that will get them more money.

littleeddiebell · 05-28-2012, 08:29 PM

Mike Ditka says you only have to ban facemasks to have the same effect.

[url]http://www.westernsun.us/front-page/facemasks-may-make-football-more-dangerous/[/url]

FijiJet · 05-28-2012, 08:32 PM

[QUOTE=Darth Vader;4479201]totally different game, not as much repetitive explosive violence, from all angles

taking away helmets would be a disaster. they should take away rigid facemasks tho and replace the whole facemask-helmet apparatus with something truly revolutionary and space age[/QUOTE]
True on your first point but rugby has more attacking platforms in the game which have different elements of risk. Collapsed scrums feel like neck cranks and can compress your spinal column; collapsed lineouts where players can be hoisted almost 4m in the air frequently cause concussions; rucks and mauls are very combative - knees to the head, punches and bites, eye gouges occur etc.

I actually have nephews in college who play both sports in the States, and indeed enjoy both. Had a casual conversation with them once, and they said that with helmets they feel more invincible etc. Whereas with rugby, they tended to play more sensibly and also aware that with an 80min game like rugby there weren't as many frequently explosive moments, since its more a game of possession and territory which is more taxing on cardio.

My 2c worth.

sg3 · 05-28-2012, 09:03 PM

I agree

ban helmets

end Conjuntos

Johnny Rico · 05-28-2012, 09:05 PM

Well, something should be done. Helmets are being used as weapons in todays game. Not good.

dameangreenkillingmachine · 05-28-2012, 09:08 PM

[QUOTE=sg3;4479242]I agree

ban helmets

end Conjuntos[/QUOTE]

you're so dumb

Soberphobia · 05-28-2012, 09:24 PM

American football is the only football on the planet that has helmets - in other contact football codes (I'll leave soccer* out of it) concussion is an issue but not the issue it appears to be in the NFL.

One obvious factors is that wearing helmets allows players to make much bigger hits than what they would be able to without them.

Another obvious factor is that other football codes aren't as explosive as American football, and the players are generally smaller - the reason for this is is that you have 3 teams in American football and players get to rest a lot, and hence don't have to be as fit and thus can carry around much more weight on their bodies. Thus they can be a lot more explosive - in other codes players will get to a "ball in contest" situation but are too exhausted to lay a huge hit, this is especially so later in games from half-time onwards.

I follow Australian football (which is quite different to rugby) and the game there goes for over 2 hours of playing time - there are 18 players and 4 subsitutes - and all of those players are responsible for offence and defence. A player might run upwards of 16 kilometres in a single game. Hence the players, while very strong for their size, are much leaner - when they get to a contested situation they wouldn't be able to lay as big a hit as a linebacker for example.

I remember a rugby player some years ago who went across to actually train with the Jets - and this player was huge by rugby standards - but they had a picture of him against a linebacker and he looked about the same size as them. In rugby, again, all players are responsible for offence and defence.

So basically what I'm saying is that dropping helmets from the game might help a little bit (we don't know really), but what would really help is if the game underwent a radical change where instead of 53 man rosters or whatever you have, they had 30 man rosters - and all players played both offence and defence. You would see much leaner players, and the players would be very tired towards the end of games and the hits would be of a much lower magnitude = much lower concussion rates.

Would it ever happen? Not in a million years. Concussion, in your game, is unfortunately here to stay.

*Ironically soccer has concussion issues as well, but from actually heading the ball - apparently heading the ball repeatedly can give you brain damage at some level.

McGinley · 05-28-2012, 09:40 PM

All of this could be avoided if players would just stop leading with their helmet and intentionally going for other players heads.

DDNYjets · 05-28-2012, 09:57 PM

Forbes should stick to financial stuff.

Football is under siege right now. Hot button topic that seemingly every outlet is "covering". It is really sad and just a microcosm of society.

I hope whatever judges are hearing the class-action suits against the NFL rule in the NFL's favor. I feel terrible for the players that are truly hurt but I think the opportunists (at the behest of lawyers) far outnumber the people that are actually hurt. IMO we need to eliminate the sensationalism and benefits of exploiting this current trend. Once we do that, people will be able to focus on improving safety.

The only thing that will come from the lawsuits is the determent of innovative football protective gear. People will not want to invest in or invent new products b.c of the fears of liability.

In a perfect world, the NFL would win the lawsuits and in good-faith would turn around and take care of the ex-players who truly need help on their own accord.

Also, where do we draw the line? Are players going to start suing the NBA b.c they have bad knees? Basically every physical activity or sport will eventually have a negative effect (cause injury) to the body if you do it long enough. Even running is "bad" for your knees after a while. It is just that football might hurt the most important part of your body.

BTW, ultimately, we fans are going to be the ones picking up the tab for this. In some shape or form. Whether it be financially or dare I say, losing the game altogether.

ubrnostrum · 05-28-2012, 10:03 PM

It's funny, I got a concussion last week while playing Aussie Rules. My arms were pinned and I was slung to the ground. It's (imo) the best game on the planet, but contact sports are contact sports. The facemask idea is intriguing, but changing the game that much would be so difficult for the players.

FijiJet · 05-28-2012, 10:25 PM

[QUOTE=Black Death;4479248]American football is the only football on the planet that has helmets - in other contact football codes (I'll leave soccer* out of it) concussion is an issue but not the issue it appears to be in the NFL.

One obvious factors is that wearing helmets allows players to make much bigger hits than what they would be able to without them.

Another obvious factor is that other football codes aren't as explosive as American football, and the players are generally smaller - the reason for this is is that you have 3 teams in American football and players get to rest a lot, and hence don't have to be as fit and thus can carry around much more weight on their bodies. Thus they can be a lot more explosive - in other codes players will get to a "ball in contest" situation but are too exhausted to lay a huge hit, this is especially so later in games from half-time onwards.

I follow Australian football (which is quite different to rugby) and the game there goes for over 2 hours of playing time - there are 18 players and 4 subsitutes - and all of those players are responsible for offence and defence. A player might run upwards of 16 kilometres in a single game. Hence the players, while very strong for their size, are much leaner - when they get to a contested situation they wouldn't be able to lay as big a hit as a linebacker for example.

I remember a rugby player some years ago who went across to actually train with the Jets - and this player was huge by rugby standards - but they had a picture of him against a linebacker and he looked about the same size as them. In rugby, again, all players are responsible for offence and defence.

So basically what I'm saying is that dropping helmets from the game might help a little bit (we don't know really), but what would really help is if the game underwent a radical change where instead of 53 man rosters or whatever you have, they had 30 man rosters - and all players played both offence and defence. You would see much leaner players, and the players would be very tired towards the end of games and the hits would be of a much lower magnitude = much lower concussion rates.

Would it ever happen? Not in a million years. Concussion, in your game, is unfortunately here to stay.

*Ironically soccer has concussion issues as well, but from actually heading the ball - apparently heading the ball repeatedly can give you brain damage at some level.[/QUOTE]
Excellent post mate. Well balanced, quality post. A pleasant alternative to the other manic threads eg Tebow zealots and Rex bashers, 90210 and co.

Soberphobia · 05-28-2012, 11:30 PM

[QUOTE=ubrnostrum;4479259][B]It's funny, I got a concussion last week while playing Aussie Rules. My arms were pinned and I was slung to the ground[/B]. It's (imo) the best game on the planet, but contact sports are contact sports. The facemask idea is intriguing, but changing the game that much would be so difficult for the players.[/QUOTE]

Exact same thing happened to me years and years ago - one of the more common concussions in the game.

[QUOTE=FijiJet;4479272]Excellent post mate. Well balanced, quality post. A pleasant alternative to the other manic threads eg Tebow zealots and Rex bashers, 90210 and co.[/QUOTE]

Cheers - the rugby (league and union, though mainly the former) player I was talking about was Willie Mason - obviously of Islander heritage. He actually looked slightly smaller compared to the linebackers and most certainly did not have the measurables (speed etc) required to play NFL.

JetsNeedNewton · 05-29-2012, 12:10 AM

[QUOTE=dameangreenkillingmachine;4479207]no way it would work. players would have to adjust to the style of play which would take a whole generation of football playing. i play rugby and a lot of former football players play on my team and tackle a lot like they were wearing helmets. and my team lost a lot of guys this year through concussions. and even some hits that these big nfl linebackers lay without leaning with their head, whiplashes the guy gettting tackled's head into the ground. it would be ugly. :eek::eek:[/QUOTE]

The Rugby comparison was BS... in my few years of playing no one considered not having a helmet... they hit as hard as they could. In fact making it to the half without blood on your uniform was considered a dishonor.

MDL_JET · 05-29-2012, 12:11 AM

if you ban helmets. you won't have nfl football.

flag football. yes.

Johnny Rico · 05-29-2012, 06:41 AM

[QUOTE=MDL_JET;4479313]if you ban helmets. you won't have nfl football.

flag football. yes.[/QUOTE]

They didn't always wear the helmets they wore today. The helmets have evolved over the course of history to provide more protection. However, with this added protection, players realized they could start using it as a weapon, as a tool to tackle. They could pad the outside of the helmets as well, but that would just encourage further helmet to helmet contacts. But the idea that banning helmets equals flag football is a fallacy.

Just wrap up. No more leading with the head. Not with the freakish size and speed of athletes today. The athletes' health should be considered No. 1 priority.

05-28-2012, 07:09 PM	#1
Digetydog Veteran Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,338	Stop Concussions - Ban Helmets [url]http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntamny/2012/05/27/memo-to-the-nfl-to-reduce-concussions-ban-football-helmets/[/url] Interesting Take on things.

05-28-2012, 09:57 PM	#14
DDNYjets Bye week buh bye Rex Hall Of Fame Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: New York Posts: 12,305	Forbes should stick to financial stuff. Football is under siege right now. Hot button topic that seemingly every outlet is "covering". It is really sad and just a microcosm of society. I hope whatever judges are hearing the class-action suits against the NFL rule in the NFL's favor. I feel terrible for the players that are truly hurt but I think the opportunists (at the behest of lawyers) far outnumber the people that are actually hurt. IMO we need to eliminate the sensationalism and benefits of exploiting this current trend. Once we do that, people will be able to focus on improving safety. The only thing that will come from the lawsuits is the determent of innovative football protective gear. People will not want to invest in or invent new products b.c of the fears of liability. In a perfect world, the NFL would win the lawsuits and in good-faith would turn around and take care of the ex-players who truly need help on their own accord. Also, where do we draw the line? Are players going to start suing the NBA b.c they have bad knees? Basically every physical activity or sport will eventually have a negative effect (cause injury) to the body if you do it long enough. Even running is "bad" for your knees after a while. It is just that football might hurt the most important part of your body. BTW, ultimately, we fans are going to be the ones picking up the tab for this. In some shape or form. Whether it be financially or dare I say, losing the game altogether. Last edited by DDNYjets; 05-28-2012 at 10:05 PM.

05-28-2012, 07:33 PM	#2
VERMONT JET BY DEMONS BE DRIVEN !! Veteran Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: BURLINGTON, VERMONT Posts: 1,000	Its such a load of crap. Roosevelt almost banned the game in the early 1900's because of all the deaths and those dudes weren't as large or fast as these guys are today.

05-28-2012, 08:05 PM	#3
FijiJet waiting for our pass rush thunderbolt All League Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,439	It is an interesting take. Rugby doesn't have helmets and while there are a few concussions, paralysis and even deaths from time to time it doesn't seem to be on the Nfl level. It could be that players feel more invincible in helmets and padding and are less inhibited to make risky plays and play aggressive.

05-28-2012, 08:16 PM	#4
Darth Vader Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 11,872	[QUOTE=FijiJet;4479190]It is an interesting take. Rugby doesn't have helmets and while there are a few concussions, paralysis and even deaths from time to time it doesn't seem to be on the Nfl level. It could be that players feel more invincible in helmets and padding and are less inhibited to make risky plays and play aggressive.[/QUOTE] totally different game, not as much repetitive explosive violence, from all angles taking away helmets would be a disaster. they should take away rigid facemasks tho and replace the whole facemask-helmet apparatus with something truly revolutionary and space age

05-28-2012, 08:24 PM	#5
dameangreenkillingmachine Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,626	no way it would work. players would have to adjust to the style of play which would take a whole generation of football playing. i play rugby and a lot of former football players play on my team and tackle a lot like they were wearing helmets. and my team lost a lot of guys this year through concussions. and even some hits that these big nfl linebackers lay without leaning with their head, whiplashes the guy gettting tackled's head into the ground. it would be ugly. :eek::eek:

05-28-2012, 08:26 PM	#6
dameangreenkillingmachine Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,626	[QUOTE=FijiJet;4479190]It is an interesting take. Rugby doesn't have helmets and while there are a few concussions, paralysis and even deaths from time to time it doesn't seem to be on the Nfl level. It could be that players feel more invincible in helmets and padding and are less inhibited to make risky plays and play aggressive.[/QUOTE] rugby is more popular in other countries where people don't file lawsuits against anything that will get them more money.

05-28-2012, 08:29 PM	#7
littleeddiebell Undrafted Free Agent Join Date: May 2007 Location: South Florida Posts: 155	Mike Ditka says you only have to ban facemasks to have the same effect. [url]http://www.westernsun.us/front-page/facemasks-may-make-football-more-dangerous/[/url]

05-28-2012, 08:32 PM	#8
FijiJet waiting for our pass rush thunderbolt All League Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,439	[QUOTE=Darth Vader;4479201]totally different game, not as much repetitive explosive violence, from all angles taking away helmets would be a disaster. they should take away rigid facemasks tho and replace the whole facemask-helmet apparatus with something truly revolutionary and space age[/QUOTE] True on your first point but rugby has more attacking platforms in the game which have different elements of risk. Collapsed scrums feel like neck cranks and can compress your spinal column; collapsed lineouts where players can be hoisted almost 4m in the air frequently cause concussions; rucks and mauls are very combative - knees to the head, punches and bites, eye gouges occur etc. I actually have nephews in college who play both sports in the States, and indeed enjoy both. Had a casual conversation with them once, and they said that with helmets they feel more invincible etc. Whereas with rugby, they tended to play more sensibly and also aware that with an 80min game like rugby there weren't as many frequently explosive moments, since its more a game of possession and territory which is more taxing on cardio. My 2c worth.

05-28-2012, 09:03 PM	#9
sg3 REX AND THE I-MAN - BACK ON TRACK Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The Big Apple, USA Posts: 20,407	I agree ban helmets end Conjuntos

05-28-2012, 09:05 PM	#10
Johnny Rico Rookie Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 618	Well, something should be done. Helmets are being used as weapons in todays game. Not good.

05-28-2012, 09:08 PM	#11
dameangreenkillingmachine Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,626	[QUOTE=sg3;4479242]I agree ban helmets end Conjuntos[/QUOTE] you're so dumb

05-28-2012, 09:24 PM	#12
Soberphobia All League Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 3,440	American football is the only football on the planet that has helmets - in other contact football codes (I'll leave soccer* out of it) concussion is an issue but not the issue it appears to be in the NFL. One obvious factors is that wearing helmets allows players to make much bigger hits than what they would be able to without them. Another obvious factor is that other football codes aren't as explosive as American football, and the players are generally smaller - the reason for this is is that you have 3 teams in American football and players get to rest a lot, and hence don't have to be as fit and thus can carry around much more weight on their bodies. Thus they can be a lot more explosive - in other codes players will get to a "ball in contest" situation but are too exhausted to lay a huge hit, this is especially so later in games from half-time onwards. I follow Australian football (which is quite different to rugby) and the game there goes for over 2 hours of playing time - there are 18 players and 4 subsitutes - and all of those players are responsible for offence and defence. A player might run upwards of 16 kilometres in a single game. Hence the players, while very strong for their size, are much leaner - when they get to a contested situation they wouldn't be able to lay as big a hit as a linebacker for example. I remember a rugby player some years ago who went across to actually train with the Jets - and this player was huge by rugby standards - but they had a picture of him against a linebacker and he looked about the same size as them. In rugby, again, all players are responsible for offence and defence. So basically what I'm saying is that dropping helmets from the game might help a little bit (we don't know really), but what would really help is if the game underwent a radical change where instead of 53 man rosters or whatever you have, they had 30 man rosters - and all players played both offence and defence. You would see much leaner players, and the players would be very tired towards the end of games and the hits would be of a much lower magnitude = much lower concussion rates. Would it ever happen? Not in a million years. Concussion, in your game, is unfortunately here to stay. *Ironically soccer has concussion issues as well, but from actually heading the ball - apparently heading the ball repeatedly can give you brain damage at some level.

05-28-2012, 09:40 PM	#13
McGinley We Know Geno All Pro Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 7,485	All of this could be avoided if players would just stop leading with their helmet and intentionally going for other players heads.

05-28-2012, 10:03 PM	#15
ubrnostrum not economically viable. Veteran Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,603	It's funny, I got a concussion last week while playing Aussie Rules. My arms were pinned and I was slung to the ground. It's (imo) the best game on the planet, but contact sports are contact sports. The facemask idea is intriguing, but changing the game that much would be so difficult for the players.

05-28-2012, 10:25 PM	#16
FijiJet waiting for our pass rush thunderbolt All League Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,439	[QUOTE=Black Death;4479248]American football is the only football on the planet that has helmets - in other contact football codes (I'll leave soccer* out of it) concussion is an issue but not the issue it appears to be in the NFL. One obvious factors is that wearing helmets allows players to make much bigger hits than what they would be able to without them. Another obvious factor is that other football codes aren't as explosive as American football, and the players are generally smaller - the reason for this is is that you have 3 teams in American football and players get to rest a lot, and hence don't have to be as fit and thus can carry around much more weight on their bodies. Thus they can be a lot more explosive - in other codes players will get to a "ball in contest" situation but are too exhausted to lay a huge hit, this is especially so later in games from half-time onwards. I follow Australian football (which is quite different to rugby) and the game there goes for over 2 hours of playing time - there are 18 players and 4 subsitutes - and all of those players are responsible for offence and defence. A player might run upwards of 16 kilometres in a single game. Hence the players, while very strong for their size, are much leaner - when they get to a contested situation they wouldn't be able to lay as big a hit as a linebacker for example. I remember a rugby player some years ago who went across to actually train with the Jets - and this player was huge by rugby standards - but they had a picture of him against a linebacker and he looked about the same size as them. In rugby, again, all players are responsible for offence and defence. So basically what I'm saying is that dropping helmets from the game might help a little bit (we don't know really), but what would really help is if the game underwent a radical change where instead of 53 man rosters or whatever you have, they had 30 man rosters - and all players played both offence and defence. You would see much leaner players, and the players would be very tired towards the end of games and the hits would be of a much lower magnitude = much lower concussion rates. Would it ever happen? Not in a million years. Concussion, in your game, is unfortunately here to stay. *Ironically soccer has concussion issues as well, but from actually heading the ball - apparently heading the ball repeatedly can give you brain damage at some level.[/QUOTE] Excellent post mate. Well balanced, quality post. A pleasant alternative to the other manic threads eg Tebow zealots and Rex bashers, 90210 and co.

05-28-2012, 11:30 PM	#17
Soberphobia All League Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 3,440	[QUOTE=ubrnostrum;4479259][B]It's funny, I got a concussion last week while playing Aussie Rules. My arms were pinned and I was slung to the ground[/B]. It's (imo) the best game on the planet, but contact sports are contact sports. The facemask idea is intriguing, but changing the game that much would be so difficult for the players.[/QUOTE] Exact same thing happened to me years and years ago - one of the more common concussions in the game. [QUOTE=FijiJet;4479272]Excellent post mate. Well balanced, quality post. A pleasant alternative to the other manic threads eg Tebow zealots and Rex bashers, 90210 and co.[/QUOTE] Cheers - the rugby (league and union, though mainly the former) player I was talking about was Willie Mason - obviously of Islander heritage. He actually looked slightly smaller compared to the linebackers and most certainly did not have the measurables (speed etc) required to play NFL.

05-29-2012, 12:10 AM	#18
JetsNeedNewton Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 1,698	[QUOTE=dameangreenkillingmachine;4479207]no way it would work. players would have to adjust to the style of play which would take a whole generation of football playing. i play rugby and a lot of former football players play on my team and tackle a lot like they were wearing helmets. and my team lost a lot of guys this year through concussions. and even some hits that these big nfl linebackers lay without leaning with their head, whiplashes the guy gettting tackled's head into the ground. it would be ugly. :eek::eek:[/QUOTE] The Rugby comparison was BS... in my few years of playing no one considered not having a helmet... they hit as hard as they could. In fact making it to the half without blood on your uniform was considered a dishonor.

05-29-2012, 12:11 AM	#19
MDL_JET All Pro Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 6,633	if you ban helmets. you won't have nfl football. flag football. yes.

05-29-2012, 06:41 AM	#20
Johnny Rico Rookie Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 618	[QUOTE=MDL_JET;4479313]if you ban helmets. you won't have nfl football. flag football. yes.[/QUOTE] They didn't always wear the helmets they wore today. The helmets have evolved over the course of history to provide more protection. However, with this added protection, players realized they could start using it as a weapon, as a tool to tackle. They could pad the outside of the helmets as well, but that would just encourage further helmet to helmet contacts. But the idea that banning helmets equals flag football is a fallacy. Just wrap up. No more leading with the head. Not with the freakish size and speed of athletes today. The athletes' health should be considered No. 1 priority.