The Endless Massacre in Syria

[Warfish]

A few questions.

1. Why Libya, and not Syria? For all those who loudly proclaimed Iraq a "War for Oil", how do you explain US involvement in Libya at the time it occured, with US non-involvement in Syria, even now, after all the deaths and massacre that have occured, other than the Euro/Allied Oil Interests in Libya?

2. After Darfur, and now Syria, does there need to by any more evidence that the U.N. is not worth the effort, and is, in fact, a failure at doing what it exists to do, stop wars and whoelsale slaughter and genocide?

3. What do YOU think should be done, by the U.S., in regards to Syria?

[Trades]

[QUOTE=Warfish;4479520]A few questions.

1. Why Libya, and not Syria? For all those who loudly proclaimed Iraq a "War for Oil", how do you explain US involvement in Libya at the time it occured, with US non-involvement in Syria, even now, after all the deaths and massacre that have occured, other than the Euro/Allied Oil Interests in Libya?

2. After Darfur, and now Syria, does there need to by any more evidence that the U.N. is not worth the effort, and is, in fact, a failure at doing what it exists to do, stop wars and whoelsale slaughter and genocide?

3. What do YOU think should be done, by the U.S., in regards to Syria?[/QUOTE]

At least they get their slaughter and genocide wholesale. Obama would have paid a premium to invest in SlauGen, a green slaughter and genocide start-up that was ready to fail.

[AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite]

Russia. That's why...

[JetPotato]

[QUOTE=Trades;4479529]At least they get their slaughter and genocide wholesale. Obama would have paid a premium to invest in SlauGen, a green slaughter and genocide start-up that was ready to fail.[/QUOTE]

Genocide jokes?

Selectivism, Fish. Pure, shameless politics. And so many willing to allow it. How we doing on calling on Turkey to even acknowledge their genocidal crimes on Armenia?

[Trades]

[QUOTE=JetPotato;4479547]Genocide jokes?

Selectivism, Fish. Pure, shameless politics. And so many willing to allow it. How we doing on calling on Turkey to even acknowledge their genocidal crimes on Armenia?[/QUOTE]

Not really. More a wholesale and Obama investment joke. Sorry if I offended you.

You are totally right on the selectivism though but I think it has always been that way. It comes down to the discussion around are we the world's police? Should be have been in any of these fights? Based on the constitution I think we are only supposed to be in wars that protect America's interests. This can be very broadly defined of course. Availability of affordable energy is in directly and tangibly our interests while fewer dictators and freedom of people is in our interest because it expands the global market.

Would it be great if we could stop all the monsters in the world? Sure, but we have proven time and again that we tend to put new monsters in power or they just naturally fill the vacuum left by the previous monster.

America seems unique in that you have a people united together through a love of freedom and prosperity though even our will to not allow our freedoms to be whittled away seems to be waning.

[JetPotato]

[QUOTE=Trades;4479553]Not really. More a wholesale and Obama investment joke. Sorry if I offended you.[/QUOTE]

No worries. I wasn't personally offended. I do tend to make some off-color "jokes" here myself, I just personally wouldn't go near it in that kind of topic. Too many others could be offended, and understanably so. Just as most of us wouldn't even think about making jokes pertaining to 9/11.

[QUOTE=Trades;4479553]
You are totally right on the selectivism though but I think it has always been that way. It comes down to the discussion around are we the world's police? Should be have been in any of these fights? Based on the constitution I think we are only supposed to be in wars that protect America's interests. This can be very broadly defined of course. Availability of affordable energy is in directly and tangibly our interests while fewer dictators and freedom of people is in our interest because it expands the global market.

Would it be great if we could stop all the monsters in the world? Sure, but we have proven time and again that we tend to put new monsters in power or they just naturally fill the vacuum left by the previous monster. [/QUOTE]

You're right, it hasn't changed much. But now more than ever, we're feeling the effects of spreading ourselves too thin. We have a out of control Offense Budget (in addition to our Defense Budget) used to satiate voting blocks and campaign funders. We're not talking about WWII here. We've had several conflicts since that have little bearing on our own safety, and result only in the needless loss of American soldiers.

[QUOTE=Trades;4479553]
America seems unique in that you have a people united together through a love of freedom and prosperity though even our will to not allow our freedoms to be whittled away seems to be waning.[/QUOTE]

It isn't waning. We just have a growing population of people who claim to love freedom, but clearly have no concept of what that means. They're far more interested in what [I]else[/I] they can get on top, no matter the expense to themselves or others.

[chiefst2000]

There are a few reasons why the Obama administration is ignoring Syria.

#1) Fear of Iran - Libya had no sponsors. Syria is sponsored by Iran and Russia.

#2) Leadership - The US today is a rudderless ship. We do not have a real leader at the helm. It would take American leadership to rally the international community to this cause. Oddly breaking Syria's ties to Iran much more so in our national security interests than was delivering Libya from a neutered Qaddafi. Obama barely mentions Syria anymore. It seems the administration is simply ignoring the conflict. Maybe after the election Obama plans to have some "flexibility" on the issue.

#3) What happens next? The situation in Syria is different then any of the others in a way. The Alawites in Syria are a 10% minority. They rule with an iron fist over the 90% majority Sunni population there. The situation there (unlike the Israeli-Palestinian Situation) is actually quite similar to South African Apartheid in that a small minority rules over an oppressed majority. If the Sunnis get the power there it is likely they will massacre the Alawites. That poses a bit of a problem.

[Frequent Flyer]

I think more people die each day in North Korean gulags than people have been murdered in Syria all year.

[MnJetFan]

It is a civil war, stay the hell out of their internal problems. We demanded the same when we had a Civil War.

[IHATEDOLPHINS]

[QUOTE=AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite;4479535]Russia. That's why...[/QUOTE]

Yup

[brady's a catcher]

[QUOTE=chiefst2000;4479610]There are a few reasons why the Obama administration is ignoring Syria.

#1) Fear of Iran - Libya had no sponsors. Syria is sponsored by Iran and Russia.

#2) Leadership - The US today is a rudderless ship. We do not have a real leader at the helm. It would take American leadership to rally the international community to this cause. Oddly breaking Syria's ties to Iran much more so in our national security interests than was delivering Libya from a neutered Qaddafi. Obama barely mentions Syria anymore. It seems the administration is simply ignoring the conflict. Maybe after the election Obama plans to have some "flexibility" on the issue.

#3) What happens next? The situation in Syria is different then any of the others in a way. The Alawites in Syria are a 10% minority. They rule with an iron fist over the 90% majority Sunni population there. The situation there (unlike the Israeli-Palestinian Situation) is actually quite similar to South African Apartheid in that a small minority rules over an oppressed majority. If the Sunnis get the power there it is likely they will massacre the Alawites. That poses a bit of a problem.[/QUOTE]

A worth reading post as usual chiefs but why is number 3 our problem? Like you said, they've ruled cruely, so they get what they get. Should we interven just to flex our muscles to iran, russia, china? I trhink not. I'm sick of being the world police when you have once great cities like Detroit sliding into hell.

Meh, our era of dominance is about over anyway.

[PlumberKhan]

F*ck Syria.

I lol @ that place.

[chiefst2000]

[QUOTE=brady's a catcher;4479783]A worth reading post as usual chiefs but why is number 3 our problem? Like you said, they've ruled cruely, so they get what they get. Should we interven just to flex our muscles to iran, russia, china? I trhink not. I'm sick of being the world police when you have once great cities like Detroit sliding into hell.

Meh, our era of dominance is about over anyway.[/QUOTE]

Wow, thats not a great attitude. Contrary to what progressives believe it will be a very sad day for the world if America loses its power and influence in the world. We don't intervene because we want to help the wonderful people of Syria. We intervene because we have enemies in the world. Iran is a serious threat. Syria is part of Irans axis of evil. Don't be fooled about Russia either. Anyone that follows foreign policy knows that Russia is consistently at odds with us at the UN. The secondary benefit is that it shows the people of Iran that if they choose to rise up against their regime the US will have their backs. The downfall of Assad is benefits us by weakening Iran.

The how is the tricky part. Obviously boots on the ground is beyond out of the question. If we had a leader they could look to arm the rebels through back channels. Maybe pressure the Turks to get involved. It would have to be Arabs helping Arabs. Maybe appeal to the people of Egypt that might feel solidarity with the rebels in Syria going through what they recently wenty through. There would have to be assurances that if the regime fell the Alawites would not be massacred.

[Soberphobia]

That massacre they had the other day where children as young as 5 had bullet holes in their temples would be almost beyond belief unless you were a student of history - of course it was the government that sanctioned those actions and are responsible for it.

The more time goes on the less and less I like the supremely cynical Putin - goes out of his way to rub America's noses in it. He's a thug, spiv, murderer - bases himself on someone like Stalin and acts like it as well.

If it were up to me its now clearly time for the international community (read - the USA and Europeans like France etc) to now step in. This whole thing with Sunnis vs Shias is only going to get worse because the government realises they are fighting for their lives - if they cede control of the country they are basically dead - as probably are their families and fellow tribesmen/women. Hence they will destroy anything and anyone they can to maintain a grip on power.

[cr726]

Why doesn't Australia lead the way?


[QUOTE=Black Death;4479933]That massacre they had the other day where children as young as 5 had bullet holes in their temples would be almost beyond belief unless you were a student of history - of course it was the government that sanctioned those actions and are responsible for it.

The more time goes on the less and less I like the supremely cynical Putin - goes out of his way to rub America's noses in it. He's a thug, spiv, murderer - bases himself on someone like Stalin and acts like it as well.

If it were up to me its now clearly time for the international community (read - the USA and Europeans like France etc) to now step in. This whole thing with Sunnis vs Shias is only going to get worse because the government realises they are fighting for their lives - if they cede control of the country they are basically dead - as probably are their families and fellow tribesmen/women. Hence they will destroy anything and anyone they can to maintain a grip on power.[/QUOTE]

[AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite]

[QUOTE=cr726;4479943]Why doesn't Australia lead the way?[/QUOTE]

Finally, something we agree on :P

[Soberphobia]

[QUOTE=cr726;4479943]Why doesn't Australia lead the way?[/QUOTE]

lol - yeah I guess we could step in and it would be somewhat of a fair fight given our military has probably around the same strength as Syrias.

Think the bookies would have it at even money. :yes:

[Soberphobia]

^ ^ of course when we declare war on Syria the USA would be duty-bound to step in, given we are close allies, and also given the amount of military infrastructure of ours you use monitoring the Pacific region.

[AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite]

[QUOTE=Black Death;4479948]^ ^ of course when we declare war on Syria the USA would be duty-bound to step in, given we are close allies, and also given the amount of military infrastructure of ours you use monitoring the Pacific region.[/QUOTE]

Fancy way of saying our navy floats around you ;)

[Soberphobia]

[QUOTE=AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite;4479968]Fancy way of saying our navy floats around you ;)[/QUOTE]

:D :yes: