Obama shielding Holder on F&F Docs... - Page 2

cr726 · 06-20-2012, 02:10 PM

[QUOTE=shakin318;4496388]Yeah, Issa is to blame for doing his job by its very definition as the Chairman of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee.[/QUOTE]

He's f'n clueless, he does everything for the attention. Redacting is legal and is used in courtrooms everyday, Issa would make a great mod.

shakin318 · 06-20-2012, 02:13 PM

[QUOTE=cr726;4496398]He's f'n clueless, he does everything for the attention. Redacting is legal and is used in courtrooms everyday, Issa would make a great mod.[/QUOTE]

Are you a child? Why is it impossible for you to post without making a comment about the other poster?

Issa is doing his job; Holder and Obama have something to hide; you have a lot invested here on this forum as far as being right on this issue, and it's falling apart comically before everyone's eyes.

AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite · 06-20-2012, 02:18 PM

[QUOTE=shakin318;4496402]Are you a child? Why is it impossible for you to post without making a comment about the other poster?

Issa is doing his job; Holder and Obama have something to hide; you have a lot invested here on this forum as far as being right on this issue, and it's falling apart comically before everyone's eyes.[/QUOTE]

To be honest, I think the administration has far more riding on this than cr...

Now that Obama has involved himself, he's going to ride this one out until it is over...

It's up to the (R) leaders to decide just how they want this to play out... The safe way is to let it go and focus on the election, which is what they were trying to do in the first place...

With Obama stepping in, that's probably out of the window now...

cr726 · 06-20-2012, 02:23 PM

Yea if you only want to hear what Issa is saying. Holder has testified 9 or 10 times for Fast and Furious. Issa wants to see sealed documents, he wants everything just because? The comical thing here is now you all think the media has this dead on. Classic.

[QUOTE=shakin318;4496402]Are you a child? Why is it impossible for you to post without making a comment about the other poster?

Issa is doing his job; Holder and Obama have something to hide; you have a lot invested here on this forum as far as being right on this issue, and it's falling apart comically before everyone's eyes.[/QUOTE]

Jungle Shift Jet · 06-20-2012, 02:28 PM

All done for the sake of gun-grabbing.

Heckuva job!

cr726 · 06-20-2012, 02:33 PM

He's defending is AG against Issa's bs.

[QUOTE=AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite;4496406]To be honest, I think the administration has far more riding on this than cr...

Now that Obama has involved himself, he's going to ride this one out until it is over...

It's up to the (R) leaders to decide just how they want this to play out... The safe way is to let it go and focus on the election, which is what they were trying to do in the first place...

With Obama stepping in, that's probably out of the window now...[/QUOTE]

shakin318 · 06-20-2012, 02:34 PM

[QUOTE=cr726;4496418]Yea if you only want to hear what Issa is saying. Holder has testified 9 or 10 times for Fast and Furious. Issa wants to see sealed documents, he wants everything just because? The comical thing here is now you all think the media has this dead on. Classic.[/QUOTE]

Lying, feigning ignorance, stonewalling and stalling pretty much define his testifying. Frankly, it's pretty obvious that the blood of a U.S.L.E.O. is on the hands of someone very high up in the administration -- of course the documents are "sealed." Who sealed them and why? How convenient.

Issa is demanding those documents "just because" it is his job as chairman of the oversight committee to get to the bottom of an obvious f-ck-up that used American tax dollars and cost at least one American life, and many more Mexican lives.

Comparing Wide Receiver to Fast and Furious is a joke. As an LEO you should be able to grasp the difference between controlled delivery/tracing and completely uncontrolled delivery. The differences between the two operations are huge.

JetPotato · 06-20-2012, 02:58 PM

Not sure why Issa is bothering. He should just subpoena JI. Apparently its most brain-dead poster has inside info that no one else is privy to.:rolleyes:

brady's a catcher · 06-20-2012, 03:38 PM

[QUOTE=Jungle Shift Jet;4496427]All done for the sake of gun-grabbing.

Heckuva job![/QUOTE]

"Holdie, you're doing a heckuva job!".

brady's a catcher · 06-20-2012, 03:44 PM

Holder is such a weaselly little dirtbag. It was the Bush Admin! Then when caught lying, he "inadvertantly" said it. :rolleyes:

That might have to be my new go to move when I get caught in I lie. "Oh, I, um, inadvertently said that, dosen't mean anything."

[url]http://washingtonexaminer.com/holder-retracts-claim-bush-team-knew-about-fast-and-furious/article/2500157[/url]

n a second major retraction over its version of the the gun-walking scandal, the Justice Department has retracted Attorney General Eric Holder's charge in a hearing last week that his Bush administration predecessor had been briefed on the affair.

In a memo just released by Sen. Chuck Grassley, the Iowa senator reveals that Holder also didn't apologize to former Attorney General Michael Mukasey for dragging him into the Fast & Furious scandal that is headed for a major legal clash and likely contempt of Congress charge against Holder.

According to Grassley's memo, Justice said that Holder "inadvertently" made the charge against Mukasey in a hearing.

Here is the full text of the Grassley memo:

To: Reporters and Editors

Re: Second retraction of Fast and Furious Assertions

Da: Wednesday, June 20, 2012

The Justice Department has retracted a second statement made to the Senate Judiciary Committee. During a hearing last week, Attorney General Eric Holder claimed that his predecessor, then-Attorney General Michael Mukasey, had been briefed about gunwalking in Operation Wide Receiver. Now, the Department is retracting that statement and claiming Holder "inadvertently" made that claim to the Committee. The Department's letter failed to apologize to former Attorney General Mukasey for the false accusation. This is the second major retraction the Justice Department has made in the last seven months. In December 2011, the Department retracted its claim that the ATF had not allowed illegally purchased guns to be trafficked to Mexico. Sen. Chuck Grassley's letter and the Department's response can be viewed here-1.

In addition, the Justice Department released only one page of additional material prior to the Attorney General's meeting on Capitol Hill on Tuesday. It is a page of handwritten notes by a public affairs specialist for the Deputy Attorney General, which the Department says it "just recently discovered." The notes indicate that when Deputy Assistant Attorney General Jason Weinstein met with senior ATF officials on April 28, 2010, regarding the problem of gunwalking in Wide Receiver, the Deputy Attorney General's public affairs specialist also attended the meeting. These notes can be viewed here-2.

The notes indicate that Fast and Furious was also a topic discussed at the meeting, in addition to Wide Receiver. These notes further corroborate contemporaneous emails in 2010 that show Criminal Division Chief Lanny Breuer and Weinstein seemed to have been more concerned about the press implications of gunwalking than they were about making sure ATF ended the practice. (These emails can be viewed here-3.) The notes also undermine the claim that senior DOJ officials failed to "make the connection" between the gunwalking in Wide Receiver--which Breuer admitted to knowing about--and gunwalking in Fast and Furious. In fact, both cases were discussed by senior Department leadership and senior ATF leadership.

Grassley made the following comment on these developments.

"This is the second time in nearly seven months that the Department has gotten its facts wrong about gunwalking. Attorney General Holder accused Attorney General Mukasey, without producing any evidence, of having been briefed on gunwalking in Wide Receiver. The case Attorney General Mukasey was briefed on, Hernandez, is fundamentally different from both Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious since it involved cooperation with the Mexican government. Attorney General Holder's retraction should have included an apology to the former Attorney General.

GreenGeek · 06-20-2012, 03:52 PM

[QUOTE=chiefst2000;4496322]Executive privilege technically also covers white house staff. Still allows for plausible deniability from the president regarding his knowledge of the program.[/QUOTE]

Its a good question. I researched a few sites and the language is not clear. The privilege has been inferred by the court based on the principle of balance of powers. It says "president and members of his office".

Some say that the "and" requires the president as part. Others treat this as "or", meaning it could apply to DoJ w/o president. It has seldom been challenged except for Nixon during watergate.

In all cases, this use of executive privilege is a stain on the whitehouse. The "transparent" admin just took the fifth. This makes Fast&Furious a major scandal...used to be a minor one.

cr726 · 06-20-2012, 03:52 PM

[QUOTE=shakin318;4496438]Lying, feigning ignorance, stonewalling and stalling pretty much define his testifying. Frankly, it's pretty obvious that the blood of a U.S.L.E.O. is on the hands of someone very high up in the administration -- of course the documents are "sealed." Who sealed them and why? How convenient.

Issa is demanding those documents "just because" it is his job as chairman of the oversight committee to get to the bottom of an obvious f-ck-up that used American tax dollars and cost at least one American life, and many more Mexican lives.

Comparing Wide Receiver to Fast and Furious is a joke. As an LEO you should be able to grasp the difference between controlled delivery/tracing and completely uncontrolled delivery. The differences between the two operations are huge.[/QUOTE]

Do some research the ATF was walking guns before Fast and Furious. I don't agree with the operation at all.

Sealing documents is done all the time because of it being an active investigation, has nothing to do with Issa's stuff at all.

Issa never wants this to end, it keeps him relevant.

cr726 · 06-20-2012, 03:55 PM

[QUOTE=JetPotato;4496479]Not sure why Issa is bothering. He should just subpoena JI. Apparently its most brain-dead poster has inside info that no one else is privy to.:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

You may need a reading comprehension class no where did I state anything of the sort.

You of all people should understand what happens when lawyers want to make every decision.

JetPotato · 06-20-2012, 03:59 PM

[QUOTE=cr726;4496557]You may need a reading comprehension class no where did I state anything of the sort.

You of all people should understand what happens when lawyers want to make every decision.[/QUOTE]

I'm happy my reference was clear enough for you to pick up on it.

cr726 · 06-20-2012, 04:09 PM

[QUOTE=JetPotato;4496565]I'm happy my reference was clear enough for you to pick up on it.[/QUOTE]

You are the funniest guy you know.

shakin318 · 06-20-2012, 04:13 PM

Why don't you two start a separate thread in which you can piss on each other, rather than doing it in every thread?

PlumberKhan · 06-20-2012, 04:15 PM

[QUOTE=shakin318;4496284]The president just invoked executive privilege for pete's sake...[/QUOTE]

lol...

Everything has come full circle :P

Tucker134 · 06-20-2012, 04:43 PM

Well politically, one thing now is clear. Fast and Furious is owned, lock, stock and barrel, by the president. No longer is this a merely DOJ problem. The president’s invocation of his privilege makes the problem his own.

AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite · 06-20-2012, 05:43 PM

[QUOTE=Tucker134;4496651]Well politically, one thing now is clear. Fast and Furious is owned, lock, stock and barrel, by the president. No longer is this a merely DOJ problem. The president’s invocation of his privilege makes the problem his own.[/QUOTE]

This. While I think GreenGeek shortchanged the level the scandal was at already, it just turned a big scandal into a gigantic one...

If in the next few months, evidence is brought to light implicating a high ranking official in any capacity, the lid is getting blown off and the President is tied to it right as voters start caring...

GreenGeek · 06-20-2012, 06:18 PM

[QUOTE=Tucker134;4496651]Well politically, one thing now is clear. Fast and Furious is owned, lock, stock and barrel, by the president. No longer is this a merely DOJ problem. The president’s invocation of his privilege makes the problem his own.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Full ownership to the president.

The fun will be watching the press.
Does the smell of scandal bring out the stinger,
Or do they leave it alone?

Remember the scorpion and the frog fable!

06-20-2012, 02:10 PM	#21
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,285	[QUOTE=shakin318;4496388]Yeah, Issa is to blame for doing his job by its very definition as the Chairman of the Oversight and Government Reform Committee.[/QUOTE] He's f'n clueless, he does everything for the attention. Redacting is legal and is used in courtrooms everyday, Issa would make a great mod.

06-20-2012, 02:13 PM	#22
shakin318 Beslubbering beef-witted lout Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Funkytown Posts: 7,174	[QUOTE=cr726;4496398]He's f'n clueless, he does everything for the attention. Redacting is legal and is used in courtrooms everyday, Issa would make a great mod.[/QUOTE] Are you a child? Why is it impossible for you to post without making a comment about the other poster? Issa is doing his job; Holder and Obama have something to hide; you have a lot invested here on this forum as far as being right on this issue, and it's falling apart comically before everyone's eyes.

06-20-2012, 02:18 PM	#23
AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite is all out of fuCks to give... All Pro Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 7,447	[QUOTE=shakin318;4496402]Are you a child? Why is it impossible for you to post without making a comment about the other poster? Issa is doing his job; Holder and Obama have something to hide; you have a lot invested here on this forum as far as being right on this issue, and it's falling apart comically before everyone's eyes.[/QUOTE] To be honest, I think the administration has far more riding on this than cr... Now that Obama has involved himself, he's going to ride this one out until it is over... It's up to the (R) leaders to decide just how they want this to play out... The safe way is to let it go and focus on the election, which is what they were trying to do in the first place... With Obama stepping in, that's probably out of the window now...

06-20-2012, 02:23 PM	#24
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,285	Yea if you only want to hear what Issa is saying. Holder has testified 9 or 10 times for Fast and Furious. Issa wants to see sealed documents, he wants everything just because? The comical thing here is now you all think the media has this dead on. Classic. [QUOTE=shakin318;4496402]Are you a child? Why is it impossible for you to post without making a comment about the other poster? Issa is doing his job; Holder and Obama have something to hide; you have a lot invested here on this forum as far as being right on this issue, and it's falling apart comically before everyone's eyes.[/QUOTE]

06-20-2012, 02:28 PM	#25
Jungle Shift Jet Occasionally stoops to uploading hotties pix to boost his postcount All Pro Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alive with a superior intellect in an erudite world of fine tastes that you will never, EVER acquire Posts: 5,033	All done for the sake of gun-grabbing. Heckuva job!

06-20-2012, 02:33 PM	#26
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,285	He's defending is AG against Issa's bs. [QUOTE=AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite;4496406]To be honest, I think the administration has far more riding on this than cr... Now that Obama has involved himself, he's going to ride this one out until it is over... It's up to the (R) leaders to decide just how they want this to play out... The safe way is to let it go and focus on the election, which is what they were trying to do in the first place... With Obama stepping in, that's probably out of the window now...[/QUOTE]

06-20-2012, 02:34 PM	#27
shakin318 Beslubbering beef-witted lout Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Funkytown Posts: 7,174	[QUOTE=cr726;4496418]Yea if you only want to hear what Issa is saying. Holder has testified 9 or 10 times for Fast and Furious. Issa wants to see sealed documents, he wants everything just because? The comical thing here is now you all think the media has this dead on. Classic.[/QUOTE] Lying, feigning ignorance, stonewalling and stalling pretty much define his testifying. Frankly, it's pretty obvious that the blood of a U.S.L.E.O. is on the hands of someone very high up in the administration -- of course the documents are "sealed." Who sealed them and why? How convenient. Issa is demanding those documents "just because" it is his job as chairman of the oversight committee to get to the bottom of an obvious f-ck-up that used American tax dollars and cost at least one American life, and many more Mexican lives. Comparing Wide Receiver to Fast and Furious is a joke. As an LEO you should be able to grasp the difference between controlled delivery/tracing and completely uncontrolled delivery. The differences between the two operations are huge.

06-20-2012, 02:58 PM	#28
JetPotato fermenting Hall Of Fame Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 12,117	Not sure why Issa is bothering. He should just subpoena JI. Apparently its most brain-dead poster has inside info that no one else is privy to.:rolleyes:

06-20-2012, 03:38 PM	#29
brady's a catcher R.I.P Goofy Maloof All Pro Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 6,683	[QUOTE=Jungle Shift Jet;4496427]All done for the sake of gun-grabbing. Heckuva job![/QUOTE] "Holdie, you're doing a heckuva job!".

06-20-2012, 03:44 PM	#30
brady's a catcher R.I.P Goofy Maloof All Pro Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 6,683	Holder is such a weaselly little dirtbag. It was the Bush Admin! Then when caught lying, he "inadvertantly" said it. :rolleyes: That might have to be my new go to move when I get caught in I lie. "Oh, I, um, inadvertently said that, dosen't mean anything." [url]http://washingtonexaminer.com/holder-retracts-claim-bush-team-knew-about-fast-and-furious/article/2500157[/url] n a second major retraction over its version of the the gun-walking scandal, the Justice Department has retracted Attorney General Eric Holder's charge in a hearing last week that his Bush administration predecessor had been briefed on the affair. In a memo just released by Sen. Chuck Grassley, the Iowa senator reveals that Holder also didn't apologize to former Attorney General Michael Mukasey for dragging him into the Fast & Furious scandal that is headed for a major legal clash and likely contempt of Congress charge against Holder. According to Grassley's memo, Justice said that Holder "inadvertently" made the charge against Mukasey in a hearing. Here is the full text of the Grassley memo: To: Reporters and Editors Re: Second retraction of Fast and Furious Assertions Da: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 The Justice Department has retracted a second statement made to the Senate Judiciary Committee. During a hearing last week, Attorney General Eric Holder claimed that his predecessor, then-Attorney General Michael Mukasey, had been briefed about gunwalking in Operation Wide Receiver. Now, the Department is retracting that statement and claiming Holder "inadvertently" made that claim to the Committee. The Department's letter failed to apologize to former Attorney General Mukasey for the false accusation. This is the second major retraction the Justice Department has made in the last seven months. In December 2011, the Department retracted its claim that the ATF had not allowed illegally purchased guns to be trafficked to Mexico. Sen. Chuck Grassley's letter and the Department's response can be viewed here-1. In addition, the Justice Department released only one page of additional material prior to the Attorney General's meeting on Capitol Hill on Tuesday. It is a page of handwritten notes by a public affairs specialist for the Deputy Attorney General, which the Department says it "just recently discovered." The notes indicate that when Deputy Assistant Attorney General Jason Weinstein met with senior ATF officials on April 28, 2010, regarding the problem of gunwalking in Wide Receiver, the Deputy Attorney General's public affairs specialist also attended the meeting. These notes can be viewed here-2. The notes indicate that Fast and Furious was also a topic discussed at the meeting, in addition to Wide Receiver. These notes further corroborate contemporaneous emails in 2010 that show Criminal Division Chief Lanny Breuer and Weinstein seemed to have been more concerned about the press implications of gunwalking than they were about making sure ATF ended the practice. (These emails can be viewed here-3.) The notes also undermine the claim that senior DOJ officials failed to "make the connection" between the gunwalking in Wide Receiver--which Breuer admitted to knowing about--and gunwalking in Fast and Furious. In fact, both cases were discussed by senior Department leadership and senior ATF leadership. Grassley made the following comment on these developments. "This is the second time in nearly seven months that the Department has gotten its facts wrong about gunwalking. Attorney General Holder accused Attorney General Mukasey, without producing any evidence, of having been briefed on gunwalking in Wide Receiver. The case Attorney General Mukasey was briefed on, Hernandez, is fundamentally different from both Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious since it involved cooperation with the Mexican government. Attorney General Holder's retraction should have included an apology to the former Attorney General.

06-20-2012, 03:52 PM	#31
GreenGeek Cautiously optimistic thanks to Idzik. Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Stony Brook Posts: 1,660	[QUOTE=chiefst2000;4496322]Executive privilege technically also covers white house staff. Still allows for plausible deniability from the president regarding his knowledge of the program.[/QUOTE] Its a good question. I researched a few sites and the language is not clear. The privilege has been inferred by the court based on the principle of balance of powers. It says "president and members of his office". Some say that the "and" requires the president as part. Others treat this as "or", meaning it could apply to DoJ w/o president. It has seldom been challenged except for Nixon during watergate. In all cases, this use of executive privilege is a stain on the whitehouse. The "transparent" admin just took the fifth. This makes Fast&Furious a major scandal...used to be a minor one.

06-20-2012, 03:55 PM	#33
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,285	[QUOTE=JetPotato;4496479]Not sure why Issa is bothering. He should just subpoena JI. Apparently its most brain-dead poster has inside info that no one else is privy to.:rolleyes:[/QUOTE] You may need a reading comprehension class no where did I state anything of the sort. You of all people should understand what happens when lawyers want to make every decision.

06-20-2012, 03:59 PM	#34
JetPotato fermenting Hall Of Fame Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 12,117	[QUOTE=cr726;4496557]You may need a reading comprehension class no where did I state anything of the sort. You of all people should understand what happens when lawyers want to make every decision.[/QUOTE] I'm happy my reference was clear enough for you to pick up on it.

06-20-2012, 04:09 PM	#35
cr726 Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,285	[QUOTE=JetPotato;4496565]I'm happy my reference was clear enough for you to pick up on it.[/QUOTE] You are the funniest guy you know.

06-20-2012, 04:13 PM	#36
shakin318 Beslubbering beef-witted lout Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Funkytown Posts: 7,174	Why don't you two start a separate thread in which you can piss on each other, rather than doing it in every thread?

06-20-2012, 04:15 PM	#37
PlumberKhan BRACE YOURSELVES FOR 12... Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,013	[QUOTE=shakin318;4496284]The president just invoked executive privilege for pete's sake...[/QUOTE] lol... Everything has come full circle :P

06-20-2012, 04:43 PM	#38
Tucker134 Let's go Isles! All League Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: NYC Posts: 2,984	Well politically, one thing now is clear. Fast and Furious is owned, lock, stock and barrel, by the president. No longer is this a merely DOJ problem. The president’s invocation of his privilege makes the problem his own.

06-20-2012, 05:43 PM	#39
AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite is all out of fuCks to give... All Pro Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 7,447	[QUOTE=Tucker134;4496651]Well politically, one thing now is clear. Fast and Furious is owned, lock, stock and barrel, by the president. No longer is this a merely DOJ problem. The president’s invocation of his privilege makes the problem his own.[/QUOTE] This. While I think GreenGeek shortchanged the level the scandal was at already, it just turned a big scandal into a gigantic one... If in the next few months, evidence is brought to light implicating a high ranking official in any capacity, the lid is getting blown off and the President is tied to it right as voters start caring...

06-20-2012, 06:18 PM	#40
GreenGeek Cautiously optimistic thanks to Idzik. Veteran Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Stony Brook Posts: 1,660	[QUOTE=Tucker134;4496651]Well politically, one thing now is clear. Fast and Furious is owned, lock, stock and barrel, by the president. No longer is this a merely DOJ problem. The president’s invocation of his privilege makes the problem his own.[/QUOTE] Agreed. Full ownership to the president. The fun will be watching the press. Does the smell of scandal bring out the stinger, Or do they leave it alone? Remember the scorpion and the frog fable!