Sobering Review of Shonn Greene

[John_0515]

[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4502019]Sorry, not what I read about the player coming out. I also read reports about how the Jets coaching staff who evaluated the player coming out about his vision an ability to hit the hole.

I also disagree that he's been a disappointment. I just don't see his vision as an issue. The bigger issue for me is his pass receiving, and pass protection blocking on blitz pick-up, he MUST improve in both areas. He has as a receiver, I'd like him to take the next step.

I think some have an unfair evaluation of Greene, he hasn't been the #1 or featured RB in a full time role, he's getting most of the carries, but he's played in a platoon situation, and frankly, I like to see multiple RB's used in a game.

Here is a pre-draft write up:

[URL]http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/shonn-greene?id=79563[/URL][/QUOTE]

I agree that our lack of identity last year will give him a mulligan, sort of, but he has to be way above average this year in order to shed that label, IMO.

I'm rooting for the kid, I just don't think he's a Thomas Jones/Curtis Martin kind of back. Maybe he'll grow up this year. Same thing can be said about Sanchez at the QB spot.

[Ray Ray19]

[QUOTE=John_0515;4502056]I agree that our lack of identity last year will give him a mulligan, sort of, but he has to be way above average this year in order to shed that label, IMO.

I'm rooting for the kid, I just don't think he's a Thomas Jones/Curtis Martin kind of back. Maybe he'll grow up this year. Same thing can be said about Sanchez at the QB spot.[/QUOTE]

All fair

But like I said in the other post, we need to evaluate the opportunities he got in his first 3 years, every season had a very different dynamic in place that impacted the number of opportunities he had and the performance he put up, all I'm saying.

In terms of ability, he has a lot of good ability, and if you dig up the Jets' scouting of Greene, they will all rave about his field vision, ability to hit the hole, and the impact he plays with.

[PatsFanTX]

[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4502059]

In terms of ability, he has a lot of good ability, [B]and if you dig up the Jets' scouting of Greene[/B], they will all rave about his field vision, ability to hit the hole, and the impact he plays with.

[/QUOTE]

Again, that means absolutely nothing for a 3-year veteran RB.

[Winstonbiggs]

[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4502059]All fair

But like I said in the other post, we need to evaluate the opportunities he got in his first 3 years, every season had a very different dynamic in place that impacted the number of opportunities he had and the performance he put up, all I'm saying.

In terms of ability, he has a lot of good ability, and if you dig up the Jets' scouting of Greene, they will all rave about his field vision, ability to hit the hole, and the impact he plays with.[/QUOTE]

The scouting on Greene was he didn't go down on first contact and he had very low mileage for a big power back. The problem with Greene from my point of view is him not going down on first contact in College hasn't translated in the NFL. When he puts his shoulder down and delivers a big hit he is usually the one walking away hurt.

I think the Jets saw a big bruiser who could punish defenders and wear teams down. He hasn't been able to stay on the field when he tries to punish defenders in the NFL.

[Jordy]

[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4502045]It wasn't until his 3rd year, last year, that he got a bigger workload, and he produced, despite injuries and subpar play on the OL and and flawed offensive philosophy. Because of poor play overall in the passing game and lacking talent to stretch the field, it hurt the running game in the process and in play-action, still, Greene put up over 1,000 yds and didn't get all of the carries with LT still getting a significant portion of the workload.

Your 3 year argument is flawed.[/QUOTE]

:confused:

1) Greene had 3X the number of carries as LT last year. 75 carries for LT is hardly a "significant portion."

2) 1,000 yards? Barely. 1,000 yards doesn't mean as much today as it did when it was a 14 game schedule. Greene's yard per carry stayed the same. The OL excuse is just that. An excuse. Denver's OL was ranked dead last in the running game yet Willis McGahee had 1,200 yards and a 4.8 average. Seattle was 26th and Lynch had over 1,200 yards. SD was ranked 28th and Ryan Matthews had 1,100 yards and a 4.9 average. The Jets OL was ranked 14th. Get the point? I somehow doubt it.

[Jordy]

[QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4502067]The scouting on Greene was he didn't go down on first contact and he had very low mileage for a big power back. The problem with Greene from my point of view is him not going down on first contact in College hasn't translated in the NFL. When he puts his shoulder down and delivers a big hit he is usually the one walking away hurt.

I think the Jets saw a big bruiser who could punish defenders and wear teams down. He hasn't been able to stay on the field when he tries to punish defenders in the NFL.[/QUOTE]
This.

[PatsFanTX]

[QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4502067]The scouting on Greene was he didn't go down on first contact and he had very low mileage for a big power back. The problem with Greene from my point of view is him not going down on first contact in College hasn't translated in the NFL. When he puts his shoulder down and delivers a big hit he is usually the one walking away hurt.

I think the Jets saw a big bruiser who could punish defenders and wear teams down. He hasn't been able to stay on the field when he tries to punish defenders in the NFL.[/QUOTE]

How refreshing to read a post based on what a poster actually sees on the field versus a bunch of stupid statistics or pre-draft evaluations.

[jetrider]

It's up to the coaches to select, teach, develop, and mould players according to their physical attributes and whatever the team needs.

Bottom line:

This is what we need ...
[img]http://blog.cleveland.com/nationworld_impact/2009/09/large_cheetah.jpg[/img]
[img]http://palscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/The-Worlds-Fastest-Cat.jpg[/img]



This is what we have ...
[img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y8m29ZLX5ag/Raf3tLcAVsI/AAAAAAAAALI/QEPC0AlZmQw/s400/PETER+RUNNING+COLOR.jpg[/img]

[Jordy]

[QUOTE=jetrider;4502074]It's up to the coaches to select, teach, develop, and mould players according to their physical attributes and whatever the team needs.

Bottom line:

This is what we need ...
[IMG]http://blog.cleveland.com/nationworld_impact/2009/09/large_cheetah.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://palscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/The-Worlds-Fastest-Cat.jpg[/IMG]



This is what we have ...
[IMG]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y8m29ZLX5ag/Raf3tLcAVsI/AAAAAAAAALI/QEPC0AlZmQw/s400/PETER+RUNNING+COLOR.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Your best post out of 952 by far. Keep up the good work. You have a future here. Well, a new one anyway. Your others were banned. :yes:

[Ray Ray19]

[QUOTE=Jordy;4502068]:confused:

1) Greene had 3X the number of carries as LT last year. 75 carries for LT is hardly "significant."[/QUOTE]

Now compare the pass receiving, it will be a huge difference. Nevermind that, I mentioned in one of my previous posts that Greene needs to improve on his blocking, and especially blitz pick-up and pass protection, LT was on the field in many of these cases. Greene also needs to improve his pass receiving, on 3rd down, this was a big deal, and LT was often on the field in these cases, which would be reflected by the differences in pass receiving numbers you conveniently left out.

[quote]2) 1,000 yards? Barely. 1,000 yards doesn't mean as much today as it did when it was a 14 game schedule. Greene's yard per carry stayed the same. The OL excuse is just that. An excuse. Denver's OL was ranked dead last in the running game yet Willis McGahee had 1,200 yards and a 4.8 average. Seattle was 26th and Lynch had over 1,200 yards. SD was ranked 28th and Ryan Matthews had 1,100 yards and a 4.9 average. The Jets OL was ranked 14th. Get the point? I somehow doubt it.[/quote]Point 2 becomes a moot point when you factor the flaws of your first point. Exactly how are those OL rankings put together, what do they mean, how are the stats compiled? Our OL issues last year isn't an excuse, they are FACT, add the lacking effectiveness of our passing game, lack of large chunk plays in the passing game, this rendered play-action and the running game that much less effective than in the previous couple of years when the Jets were amongst the top of the league at running the ball. Take it a step further, Schotty's decision to cut back the passing attack, and limit his game plans to a short passing attack, probably because players like Burress were a disappointment as a threat at the WR position, it adds credence to why the running game struggled, on TOP of the OL injuries.

You can take the analysis even further, the fact that the Jets were behind in games, when behind, teams don't run more, they run less, in fact, when the Jets played from behind, which was a lot, they shifted away from the running game, which most teams do.

BTW, 1,000 yds has always been an indicator for measuring a RB's performance, 14 games or 16 games, that hasn't changed. Considering Greene played about 60% of the offensive snaps, his rushing numbers are more impressive.

Do YOU get the point? Probably not, there isn't an argument you wouldn't beat into the ground if you didn't feel you were on the winning side of it... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Ray Ray19]

[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4502073]How refreshing to read a post based on what a poster actually sees on the field versus a bunch of stupid statistics or pre-draft evaluations.[/QUOTE]

What it refreshing? Winston's post mentions NOTHING about "lack of vision." That was the argument, as usual, YOU CHANGE it.

[QUOTE]Green is a 3-year veteran RB who has demonstrated his lack of vision as a NFL RB.[/QUOTE]

Tell us what your evidence is? How has he demonstrated this lack of vision? Stop being a jackass troll and looking for coattails to jump on, because this is the ONLY thing you do on this forum...

[Winstonbiggs]

[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4502083]
Point 2 becomes a moot point when you factor the flaws of your first point. Exactly how are those OL rankings put together, what do they mean, how are the stats compiled? Our OL issues last year isn't an excuse, they are FACT, add the lacking effectiveness of our passing game, lack of large chunk plays in the passing game, this rendered play-action and the running game that much less effective than in the previous couple of years when the Jets were amongst the top of the league at running the ball. Take it a step further, Schotty's decision to cut back the passing attack, and limit his game plans to a short passing attack, probably because players like Burress were a disappointment as a threat at the WR position, it adds credence to why the running game struggled, on TOP of the OL injuries.

[/QUOTE]

We were no. 1 in rushing in 09 with the 31st rank passing attack. In 10 we were no. 4 in rushing with the 22nd ranked passing attack. In 11 we were no. 22 in rushing yards with the 21st ranked passing attack.

The running game struggled for lots of reasons, Greene couldn't deliver a hit on a defender and stay in the game, Tomlinson was getting long in the tooth and the coaches had little faith in McKnight getting serious carries and the OL wasn't that good. Still we absolutely stunk when our running backs especially Greene got to the second level.

[Ray Ray19]

[QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;4502092]We were no. 1 in rushing in 09 with the 31st rank passing attack. In 10 we were no. 4 in rushing with the 22nd ranked passing attack. In 11 we were no. 22 in rushing yards with the 21st ranked passing attack.

The running game struggled for lots of reasons, Greene couldn't deliver a hit on a defender and stay in the game, Tomlinson was getting long in the tooth and the coaches had little faith in McKnight getting serious carries and the OL wasn't that good. Still we absolutely stunk when our running backs especially Greene got to the second level.[/QUOTE]

Ok...

What does "Greene couldn't deliver a hit on a defender and stay in the game" mean? What games or playing time did Greene miss last year?

We stunk when RB's got to the second level because defenses did not respect our passing game.

[PatsFanTX]

[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4502099]Ok...

What does "Greene couldn't deliver a hit on a defender and stay in the game" mean? What games or playing time did Greene miss last year?

[/QUOTE]

If Green had good vision, he'd go around the defender instead of through him.

[Jordy]

[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4502083]Now compare the pass receiving, it will be a huge difference. Nevermind that, I mentioned in one of my previous posts that Greene needs to improve on his blocking, and especially blitz pick-up and pass protection, LT was on the field in many of these cases. Greene also needs to improve his pass receiving, on 3rd down, this was a big deal, and LT was often on the field in these cases, which would be reflected by the differences in pass receiving numbers you conveniently left out.[/QUOTE]

Nice attempt at a back-pedal. You were clearly talking about the running game in your post. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Ray Ray19;4502083]
Point 2 becomes a moot point when you factor the flaws of your first point. Exactly how are those OL rankings put together, what do they mean, how are the stats compiled? Our OL issues last year isn't an excuse, they are FACT, add the lacking effectiveness of our passing game, lack of large chunk plays in the passing game, this rendered play-action and the running game that much less effective than in the previous couple of years when the Jets were amongst the top of the league at running the ball. Take it a step further, Schotty's decision to cut back the passing attack, and limit his game plans to a short passing attack, probably because players like Burress were a disappointment as a threat at the WR position, it adds credence to why the running game struggled, on TOP of the OL injuries.

You can take the analysis even further, the fact that the Jets were behind in games, when behind, teams don't run more, they run less, in fact, when the Jets played from behind, which was a lot, they shifted away from the running game, which most teams do.

BTW, 1,000 yds has always been an indicator for measuring a RB's performance, 14 games or 16 games, that hasn't changed. Considering Greene played about 60% of the offensive snaps, his rushing numbers are more impressive.

Do YOU get the point? Probably not, there isn't an argument you wouldn't beat into the ground if you didn't feel you were on the winning side of it... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
You don't have a point Ray other than to keep hammering on a losing argument.

The rankings speak for themselves. They are based on a multitude of factors including watching all of the games. They completely spank your argument.

[Ray Ray19]

[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4502100]If Green had good vision, he'd go around the defender instead of through him.[/QUOTE]

LOL, FAIL. That makes no sense.

I didn't think you had anything to offer, just more of your bull****! :yes:

[Ray Ray19]

[QUOTE=Jordy;4502104]Nice attempt at a back-pedal. You were clearly talking about the running game in your post. :rolleyes:[/quote]

I was clearly talking about opportunities, and I laid it all out for you to understand. But as usaul, when you're on the losing side of an argument, you reach up your ass for a response.

[quote]You don't have a point Ray other than to keep hammering on a losing argument.

The rankings speak for themselves. They are based on a multitude of factors including watching all of the games. They completely spank your argument.[/QUOTE]

Oh I have a point, but you just proved my point yet again, the only reason you are arguing, is to be on the winning side of it, no matter what you have to pull out of your ass to get it.

It is funny that you couldn't be bothered to respond with facts when challenged.

I thought so...

[NY's stepchild]

[QUOTE=PatsFanTX;4502100]If Green had good vision, he'd go around the defender instead of through him.[/QUOTE]

Maybe you cut back between defenders...I don't think I've seen a lot of NFL rbs running around defenders. What vision would that take anyway. You'd have to see a defender then run around him? weird

[Ray Ray19]

[QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4502111]Maybe you cut back between defenders...I don't think I've seen a lot of NFL rbs running around defenders. What vision would that take anyway. You'd have to see a defender then run around him? weird[/QUOTE]

Just another thread Tx opens his mouth and is forced to eat **** after being exposed for the jackass loser troll he is.

Tx doesn't know ****, his schtick is all he has on this board.

[Yankeejet22]

Lol... The Jets will be one of the top rushing teams in the NFL this year. I am really looking forward to seeing our stable of talented, young, hungry Backs, and how they compliment each other.