Theory: "Ground and Pound" Is a Hoax - Page 2

Dreamers · 06-26-2012, 09:51 PM

We have spent 4 years now trying to build a passing game. The ground and pound worked for us only because they had 0 confidence in the pass and it showed. We may have been the only team in the league running on 2nd and 1s or throwing short play options on 3rd and long. They just had no balls at all under Shotty and everyone new it. When you play like that you have to lean on your run and control the clock. Nickle and diming or safe playing only works if you have a Brady or Montana as your QB and that was what Shotty was actually playing. That said he may be better off in SL with a QB that is more disciplined and can play that type of game. I have always felt Mark is just more of a gun slinger.

We have one of the best OL in the league. A QB that can go long and is accurate when he does. Now we also have a 4 deep WR core and 3 complement TE/RBs to help the passing game. If we can't at least break the top 16 in passing this year it will be a huge upset to me. Sanchez is on notice he needs to show he is at least an average pro QB if not he is dead to me this year. He has all the weapons a QB can ask for IMO.

sameoldjets · 06-26-2012, 09:58 PM

ground and pound means ball control. it doesn't mean running greene 40 plays per game. it does mean getting the tough yards, converting on third down and chewing up the clock. last season the jets had way too many three and outs. manily thanks to schitty's inability to coach or call plays.

jetsman1 · 06-27-2012, 12:41 AM

[QUOTE=Raider9175;4501410]Let me take each point i can give an explanation. [B]Exhibit A: You are what you are? Every team can figure out what the Jets strong points are. Jets showed last year when they tried to pass more that they didn't have the oline to pass protect. What move this off season improved that area- the oline. [/B]

Exhibit C : Jets Oline showed that when they rely on the run that oline is more than capable of doing the JOb. Did wayne Hunter look bad when the offense relied on the running game. He didn't look so good when it was more passing offense.

Exhibit D. OF course Holmes is happy. He going to be the one that benefits the most. Let see a team that wants to run the football. (That means more defenders cheating up) A couple of very tall fast WR there to stretch the field. (take safeties with them). S holmes should have his best season ever for the Jets.

Exhibit E: Yes Jet drafted a poor man Shonn Greene. They have to hope Joe Mcknight develops into that reliable change of pace back. Still they wanty to keep pounding a defense with very similar backs(Greene, Powell and Ganaway) SW Hill just as a decoy going to clear the middle for Keller and Holmes to exploit big time.

Exhibit F: The Jets can always use a Vlad ducasse as the second TE. You think he would do a good job blocking in the running game.

Exhibit G: Wayne Hunter in 2010 played very well when they were a run first team at RT. Only exposed when emphasis on offense changed.

O)F course the Jets are going to be heavy ground and Pound. Tim Tebow as wildcat Qb going to have as big an impact as any move the Jets have made on offense this offseason.[/QUOTE]

You don't think the injuries to the offensive line last season had more to do with their struggles than your theory that they got bad overnight?

The previous two seasons they were considered to be one of the best if not THE best offensive line in football....and they run blocked and pass blocked equally as well whether you want to believe it or not.The injuries were the main culprit last season and they will be healed up by the start of this season.Our offense is going to be better just because this group will be healthy.........

NY's stepchild · 06-27-2012, 12:52 AM

[QUOTE=Raider9175;4501410]Let me take each point i can give an explanation. Exhibit A: You are what you are? Every team can figure out what the Jets strong points are. Jets showed last year when they tried to pass more that they didn't have the oline to pass protect. What move this off season improved that area- the oline.

Exhibit C : Jets Oline showed that when they rely on the run that oline is more than capable of doing the JOb. Did wayne Hunter look bad when the offense relied on the running game. He didn't look so good when it was more passing offense.

Exhibit D. OF course Holmes is happy. He going to be the one that benefits the most. Let see a team that wants to run the football. (That means more defenders cheating up) A couple of very tall fast WR there to stretch the field. (take safeties with them). S holmes should have his best season ever for the Jets.

Exhibit E: Yes Jet drafted a poor man Shonn Greene. They have to hope Joe Mcknight develops into that reliable change of pace back. Still they wanty to keep pounding a defense with very similar backs(Greene, Powell and Ganaway) SW Hill just as a decoy going to clear the middle for Keller and Holmes to exploit big time.

Exhibit F: The Jets can always use a Vlad ducasse as the second TE. You think he would do a good job blocking in the running game.

Exhibit G: Wayne Hunter in 2010 played very well when they were a run first team at RT. Only exposed when emphasis on offense changed.

O)F course the Jets are going to be heavy ground and Pound. Tim Tebow as wildcat Qb going to have as big an impact as any move the Jets have made on offense this offseason.[/QUOTE]

The system is what improved the o line.

John_0515 · 06-27-2012, 06:53 AM

[QUOTE=Dreamers;4501526]We have spent 4 years now trying to build a passing game. The ground and pound worked for us only because they had 0 confidence in the pass and it showed. We may have been the only team in the league running on 2nd and 1s or throwing short play options on 3rd and long. They just had no balls at all under Shotty and everyone new it. When you play like that you have to lean on your run and control the clock. Nickle and diming or safe playing only works if you have a Brady or Montana as your QB and that was what Shotty was actually playing. That said he may be better off in SL with a QB that is more disciplined and can play that type of game. I have always felt Mark is just more of a gun slinger.

We have one of the best OL in the league. A QB that can go long and is accurate when he does. Now we also have a 4 deep WR core and 3 complement TE/RBs to help the passing game. If we can't at least break the top 16 in passing this year it will be a huge upset to me. Sanchez is on notice he needs to show he is at least an average pro QB if not he is dead to me this year. [B]He has all the weapons a QB can ask for IMO.[/B][/QUOTE]

I disagree. I think he lacks experience at the WR position, minus Holmes, has an average backfield at best, and a TE complement that is inconsistent. Not to mention the huge question mark on the offensive line.

Can it all come together? Sure, but the New Orleans Saints, the Jets offense is not.

Raider9175 · 06-27-2012, 07:38 AM

[QUOTE=jetsman1;4501628]You don't think the injuries to the offensive line last season had more to do with their struggles than your theory that they got bad overnight?

The previous two seasons they were considered to be one of the best if not THE best offensive line in football....and they run blocked and pass blocked equally as well whether you want to believe it or not.The injuries were the main culprit last season and they will be healed up by the start of this season.Our offense is going to be better just because this group will be healthy.........[/QUOTE]

The Jets were a run first team in 2009 and 2010. They tried to put the ball more in Sanchez hands in 2011. True or false. Alan faneca and Damien woody strength was never pass blocking as both were known as very good run blockers.

Do you not understand when you can run the football very well (which Jets were able) you hide some of your deficiency in pass protection. The reason being you never get in known passing downs(third and short) and pass rushers can't come off the ball hard as they have to protect against the run. Second pounding those pass rushers all day with the run tends to wear down those pass rushers.

Case IN Point Wayne Hunter how did he look in 2010 when that was philosophy(rely heavy on run) than he did in 2011 (more pass). He wasn't put in position to be exposed big time. Can't say he was injured too. Why are the Jets FO so confidant in Hunter. They are going back to that same philosophy they had in 2009, and 2010.

Two years is a long time in football. IS brandon moore anywhere close the player he once was. Jets have still two very big pieces on the Oline (LT- Dbick and Center- Mangold) and both are up their with the best. The rest of the oline has some very big question marks. (I think S Heyer will eventually win a starting guard spot with the jets as he easily beats out Slauson or Moore. That was very good signing by Mike Tannebaum.

Raider9175 · 06-27-2012, 07:51 AM

[QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4501634]The system is what improved the o line.[/QUOTE]

NO relying on the run is how your going to try and hide your deficiency in pass protection. IF the Jets can run the ball effectively , than it should work very well. Open every part of the offense up.

The problem becomes if Jets running game stalls and they have to pass. That where you can possible see some major problems. Now your Oline going to have to protect M sanchez and do they have enough on the oline to give him enough time. Hopefully for you, you never have to find that out as the running game is clicking on all cycles.

NY's stepchild · 06-27-2012, 08:39 AM

I've been through it at length, but just getting up to the line an running the play is going to make a world of difference in the running game, as well as the passing game. Also just knocking your man off the ball is what lineman love to do. They do not like all the motion, or tipping off the plays. It's an attitude we've been lacking.

06-27-2012, 07:38 AM	#26
Raider9175 Raider football- JUST FLYNN BABY. All Pro Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,283	[QUOTE=jetsman1;4501628]You don't think the injuries to the offensive line last season had more to do with their struggles than your theory that they got bad overnight? The previous two seasons they were considered to be one of the best if not THE best offensive line in football....and they run blocked and pass blocked equally as well whether you want to believe it or not.The injuries were the main culprit last season and they will be healed up by the start of this season.Our offense is going to be better just because this group will be healthy.........[/QUOTE] The Jets were a run first team in 2009 and 2010. They tried to put the ball more in Sanchez hands in 2011. True or false. Alan faneca and Damien woody strength was never pass blocking as both were known as very good run blockers. Do you not understand when you can run the football very well (which Jets were able) you hide some of your deficiency in pass protection. The reason being you never get in known passing downs(third and short) and pass rushers can't come off the ball hard as they have to protect against the run. Second pounding those pass rushers all day with the run tends to wear down those pass rushers. Case IN Point Wayne Hunter how did he look in 2010 when that was philosophy(rely heavy on run) than he did in 2011 (more pass). He wasn't put in position to be exposed big time. Can't say he was injured too. Why are the Jets FO so confidant in Hunter. They are going back to that same philosophy they had in 2009, and 2010. Two years is a long time in football. IS brandon moore anywhere close the player he once was. Jets have still two very big pieces on the Oline (LT- Dbick and Center- Mangold) and both are up their with the best. The rest of the oline has some very big question marks. (I think S Heyer will eventually win a starting guard spot with the jets as he easily beats out Slauson or Moore. That was very good signing by Mike Tannebaum. Last edited by Raider9175; 06-27-2012 at 08:03 AM.

06-26-2012, 09:51 PM	#21
Dreamers The angry poster All League Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,396	We have spent 4 years now trying to build a passing game. The ground and pound worked for us only because they had 0 confidence in the pass and it showed. We may have been the only team in the league running on 2nd and 1s or throwing short play options on 3rd and long. They just had no balls at all under Shotty and everyone new it. When you play like that you have to lean on your run and control the clock. Nickle and diming or safe playing only works if you have a Brady or Montana as your QB and that was what Shotty was actually playing. That said he may be better off in SL with a QB that is more disciplined and can play that type of game. I have always felt Mark is just more of a gun slinger. We have one of the best OL in the league. A QB that can go long and is accurate when he does. Now we also have a 4 deep WR core and 3 complement TE/RBs to help the passing game. If we can't at least break the top 16 in passing this year it will be a huge upset to me. Sanchez is on notice he needs to show he is at least an average pro QB if not he is dead to me this year. He has all the weapons a QB can ask for IMO.

06-26-2012, 09:58 PM	#22
sameoldjets All Pro Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,477	ground and pound means ball control. it doesn't mean running greene 40 plays per game. it does mean getting the tough yards, converting on third down and chewing up the clock. last season the jets had way too many three and outs. manily thanks to schitty's inability to coach or call plays.

06-27-2012, 12:41 AM	#23
jetsman1 Message Board Sniper Practice Squad Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 418	[QUOTE=Raider9175;4501410]Let me take each point i can give an explanation. [B]Exhibit A: You are what you are? Every team can figure out what the Jets strong points are. Jets showed last year when they tried to pass more that they didn't have the oline to pass protect. What move this off season improved that area- the oline. [/B] Exhibit C : Jets Oline showed that when they rely on the run that oline is more than capable of doing the JOb. Did wayne Hunter look bad when the offense relied on the running game. He didn't look so good when it was more passing offense. Exhibit D. OF course Holmes is happy. He going to be the one that benefits the most. Let see a team that wants to run the football. (That means more defenders cheating up) A couple of very tall fast WR there to stretch the field. (take safeties with them). S holmes should have his best season ever for the Jets. Exhibit E: Yes Jet drafted a poor man Shonn Greene. They have to hope Joe Mcknight develops into that reliable change of pace back. Still they wanty to keep pounding a defense with very similar backs(Greene, Powell and Ganaway) SW Hill just as a decoy going to clear the middle for Keller and Holmes to exploit big time. Exhibit F: The Jets can always use a Vlad ducasse as the second TE. You think he would do a good job blocking in the running game. Exhibit G: Wayne Hunter in 2010 played very well when they were a run first team at RT. Only exposed when emphasis on offense changed. O)F course the Jets are going to be heavy ground and Pound. Tim Tebow as wildcat Qb going to have as big an impact as any move the Jets have made on offense this offseason.[/QUOTE] You don't think the injuries to the offensive line last season had more to do with their struggles than your theory that they got bad overnight? The previous two seasons they were considered to be one of the best if not THE best offensive line in football....and they run blocked and pass blocked equally as well whether you want to believe it or not.The injuries were the main culprit last season and they will be healed up by the start of this season.Our offense is going to be better just because this group will be healthy.........

06-27-2012, 12:52 AM	#24
NY's stepchild Here's hoping that GS3 under center, and Coples on the edge works out. All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hawthorne NJ Posts: 4,712	[QUOTE=Raider9175;4501410]Let me take each point i can give an explanation. Exhibit A: You are what you are? Every team can figure out what the Jets strong points are. Jets showed last year when they tried to pass more that they didn't have the oline to pass protect. What move this off season improved that area- the oline. Exhibit C : Jets Oline showed that when they rely on the run that oline is more than capable of doing the JOb. Did wayne Hunter look bad when the offense relied on the running game. He didn't look so good when it was more passing offense. Exhibit D. OF course Holmes is happy. He going to be the one that benefits the most. Let see a team that wants to run the football. (That means more defenders cheating up) A couple of very tall fast WR there to stretch the field. (take safeties with them). S holmes should have his best season ever for the Jets. Exhibit E: Yes Jet drafted a poor man Shonn Greene. They have to hope Joe Mcknight develops into that reliable change of pace back. Still they wanty to keep pounding a defense with very similar backs(Greene, Powell and Ganaway) SW Hill just as a decoy going to clear the middle for Keller and Holmes to exploit big time. Exhibit F: The Jets can always use a Vlad ducasse as the second TE. You think he would do a good job blocking in the running game. Exhibit G: Wayne Hunter in 2010 played very well when they were a run first team at RT. Only exposed when emphasis on offense changed. O)F course the Jets are going to be heavy ground and Pound. Tim Tebow as wildcat Qb going to have as big an impact as any move the Jets have made on offense this offseason.[/QUOTE] The system is what improved the o line.

06-27-2012, 06:53 AM	#25
John_0515 Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 21,123	[QUOTE=Dreamers;4501526]We have spent 4 years now trying to build a passing game. The ground and pound worked for us only because they had 0 confidence in the pass and it showed. We may have been the only team in the league running on 2nd and 1s or throwing short play options on 3rd and long. They just had no balls at all under Shotty and everyone new it. When you play like that you have to lean on your run and control the clock. Nickle and diming or safe playing only works if you have a Brady or Montana as your QB and that was what Shotty was actually playing. That said he may be better off in SL with a QB that is more disciplined and can play that type of game. I have always felt Mark is just more of a gun slinger. We have one of the best OL in the league. A QB that can go long and is accurate when he does. Now we also have a 4 deep WR core and 3 complement TE/RBs to help the passing game. If we can't at least break the top 16 in passing this year it will be a huge upset to me. Sanchez is on notice he needs to show he is at least an average pro QB if not he is dead to me this year. [B]He has all the weapons a QB can ask for IMO.[/B][/QUOTE] I disagree. I think he lacks experience at the WR position, minus Holmes, has an average backfield at best, and a TE complement that is inconsistent. Not to mention the huge question mark on the offensive line. Can it all come together? Sure, but the New Orleans Saints, the Jets offense is not.

06-27-2012, 07:51 AM	#27
Raider9175 Raider football- JUST FLYNN BABY. All Pro Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,283	[QUOTE=NY's stepchild;4501634]The system is what improved the o line.[/QUOTE] NO relying on the run is how your going to try and hide your deficiency in pass protection. IF the Jets can run the ball effectively , than it should work very well. Open every part of the offense up. The problem becomes if Jets running game stalls and they have to pass. That where you can possible see some major problems. Now your Oline going to have to protect M sanchez and do they have enough on the oline to give him enough time. Hopefully for you, you never have to find that out as the running game is clicking on all cycles.

06-27-2012, 08:39 AM	#28
NY's stepchild Here's hoping that GS3 under center, and Coples on the edge works out. All League Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hawthorne NJ Posts: 4,712	I've been through it at length, but just getting up to the line an running the play is going to make a world of difference in the running game, as well as the passing game. Also just knocking your man off the ball is what lineman love to do. They do not like all the motion, or tipping off the plays. It's an attitude we've been lacking.