How the Jets Can Become a Powerhouse Offense

chiefst2000 · 08-06-2012, 11:23 AM

We have had a ton of discussions here about the lack of depth and experience at the WR position. Most people (myself included) are not very high on our Offenses prospects this season for a variety of reasons.

Lets look at the big picture for a moment. We have Holmes, Hill and some scrubs at WR. I think Hill will be good as a burner. He should have an impact as a fly reciever. Basically when he gets one on one coverage toss it up Randy Moss style and let him go up and get it. We have Sanchez who has always been more comfortable throwing to the middle of the field then the sidelines. Of course Dustin Keller functions as an additional WR in this offense as well. There is also Cumberland who has shown promise as an athletic pass catcher.

We know that Rex and Sparano want to run a physical style on offense. The ideal way to maximize the talent on the roster and play to the strengths of the team is a variation of what the Pats do go to a scheme that emphasizes two and 3 TE sets or a variation of that. Picture the Offense bringing in their Power Run personnel group. You have 1 WR (Holmes) two TE's ( Keller and Cumberland) a FB (Baker/Connor) and an RB. Here is where the fun begins.The Defense counters with their big run package. The QB see this and goes to a spread hurry up with Keller and Cumberland lined up wide. Baker moves to the TE spot and goes out into a pattern and the RB stays in to block or as a dumpoff option. You end up with either Keller of Cumberland covered by a LB or Safety. The fast pace of the offense keeps the D big package on the field.

Now the opposition knows this tendency. Next time the O goes big with the 3 TE package the opposing D keeps its base D in the game. Now you go to the run with an advantage of having a bigger personnel package on the field. The power run has an advantage with TE's blocking CB's.

The Pats destroyed our D last season running a variation of this scheme. Our personnel last season (when Cumberland went down) was not ideal for running the 3 TE power run/spread offense. I think that this season that type of offensive scheme makes perfect sense and gets the most talent on the field.

Thoughts?

irishxmafia · 08-06-2012, 11:29 AM

I like the optimism but our offense will never be a powerhouse let alone a top 15 offense. We are going to play good defense and run the ball 60% of the time along with 3 TE sets (keller, cumby, baker) IMO with some down field shots to hill and some first downs to Holmes. If this offense averages 20ppg i will be surprised. Its going to be all about ball control and have the defense give up nothing. Very similar to how the 49ers played last year. Hopefully we get the same results

LockeJET · 08-06-2012, 11:32 AM

We will become a powerhouse offense when we have a powerhouse at QB.

KRL · 08-06-2012, 11:36 AM

You do realize the Jets scored 377 points last year which averages out to
23.5 points a game. That happened with:

- A bad OC

- No clear vision on offense

- No commitment to the run

- A lack of vertical speed at WR

- An erratic performance by our QB

chiefst2000 · 08-06-2012, 11:40 AM

The point of the scheme is to find the best way to pass the rock and exploit mismatches while running a power run scheme. Sanchez has some strengths and this scheme should exploit them. We will never be the Pats but we don't have to. Our D will be top 5 this season. It could be number one. We need to move the chains on O and cut down on turn overs. I think a major personnel advantage can be achieved by using the 3 TE spread offense to burn Defenses that try to counter with their big "stop the run" personnel grouping. If they bring it on the Jets have the personnel to switch from power run to spread pass using the same group of players. This will work only if Sanchez is able to take advantage of the mismatches and complete some passes.

Later in the game the D will then think twice about countering the power run grouping with a big D "stop the run" personnel group. Advantage there goes to the Offense again.

mudcat21 · 08-06-2012, 11:41 AM

Ground and Pound will fail because the Jets OL doesn't have roadgrader type OLmen to make it work. They should have picked DeCastro instead of Coples and signed Winston to be the RT when he became a free agent.

Once you figure out the OL problem, then you have to admit to the QB problem. We don't have a decent one.

eaglenj · 08-06-2012, 11:42 AM

The preface of the thread is excellent and true.

However the problem is the personnel....cumberland and baker vs hernandez and gronk, but overall the philosophy is correct.

Personally I see a similar idea except 2 TE and Hill instead of 1 WR and 3 TE.

We should still be able to have a power running game, along with the threat of a pass with that group.

chiefst2000 · 08-06-2012, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglenj

The preface of the thread is excellent and true.

However the problem is the personnel....cumberland and baker vs hernandez and gronk, but overall the philosophy is correct.

Personally I see a similar idea except 2 TE and Hill instead of 1 WR and 3 TE.

We should still be able to have a power running game, along with the threat of a pass with that group.

I think we will see a ton out of that 2TE set as well but the major personnel advantage comes with 3 TE's in the mix IMO. Thats where the D looks to counter with their grouping that can be exploited.

eaglenj · 08-06-2012, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefst2000

I think we will see a ton out of that 2TE set as well but the major personnel advantage comes with 3 TE's in the mix IMO. Thats where the D looks to counter with their grouping that can be exploited.

I agree that a 3 TE personnel grouping offers a nice advantage, but even the most optimistic of us have to honestly say we would be asking a lot of cumberland, keller and baker. I hope they all do well, and that cumberland is healthy and bigger and baker can be versatile....just a lot of ?s there

southparkcpa · 08-06-2012, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRL

You do realize the Jets scored 377 points last year which averages out to
23.5 points a game. That happened with:

- A bad OC

- No clear vision on offense

- No commitment to the run

- A lack of vertical speed at WR

- An erratic performance by our QB

I find that interesting..... what that means is our TOP 5 D gave up a $hit load of points.

Gas2No99 · 08-06-2012, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southparkcpa

I find that interesting..... what that means is our TOP 5 D gave up a $hit load of points.

As much as I have disagreed with SouthParkCPA's position on Rex as a coach/developer of talent based on that "maybin" thread, I have to agree with this point.

I love our defense, but I still contend that when it MATTERED, mostly on key 3rd down stops, they didn't get it done. So all the gaudy stats of being ranked #1, #3, #5, or whatever, don't matter because you failed to stop the opponent when it was crucial.

Do that, and scoring 23.5 ppg on offense is impressive considering all the BS this team dealt with last year

southparkcpa · 08-06-2012, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gas2No99

As much as I have disagreed with SouthParkCPA's position on Rex as a coach/developer of talent based on that "maybin" thread, I have to agree with this point.

I love our defense, but I still contend that when it MATTERED, mostly on key 3rd down stops, they didn't get it done. So all the gaudy stats of being ranked #1, #3, #5, or whatever, don't matter because you failed to stop the opponent when it was crucial.

Do that, and scoring 23.5 ppg on offense is impressive considering all the BS this team dealt with last year

But the players love him...........

Jet Nut · 08-06-2012, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southparkcpa

But the players love him...........

If Vince Lombardi was the jet HC some pinheaded blind jets fan would whine.

Amazing how one 8-8 season makes the clueless whine and cry.

Gas2No99 · 08-06-2012, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southparkcpa

But the players love him...........

Stop scraping at the bottom of the barrel, you already exposed your true colors so why drag it into here?

OCCH · 08-06-2012, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gas2No99

As much as I have disagreed with SouthParkCPA's position on Rex as a coach/developer of talent based on that "maybin" thread, I have to agree with this point.

I love our defense, but I still contend that when it MATTERED, mostly on key 3rd down stops, they didn't get it done. So all the gaudy stats of being ranked #1, #3, #5, or whatever, don't matter because you failed to stop the opponent when it was crucial.

Do that, and scoring 23.5 ppg on offense is impressive considering all the BS this team dealt with last year

Which is why we should be glad we made so many upgrades on the defensive side of the ball.

Of course there are no guarantees until they step on the field, but just look at the POSSIBLE improvements we have to look forward to:

1) Coples playing like the best defensive player out of college (his moniker before last year)
2) MoWilk becoming a dominating force (already signs of that)
3) K Ellis being an anchor in the middle of the line
4) A full year of Maybin being more than just a situational pass rusher
5) Ricky Sapp being a LB unlike anything we have on our roster
6) Landry/Bell SERIOUSLY upgrading the safety position
7) Ellis Lankster providing greater depth for the DBs
8) Demario Davis bringing speed in the middle of the field
9) Karl Dunbar's expertise on the DLine
10) Rex more involved in the day to day process

Again, that might all prove to be wishful thinking. But if the defense can step up more, an "adequate" offense will still look like a huge upgrade over last year . . .

WestCoastOffensive · 08-06-2012, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southparkcpa

I find that interesting..... what that means is our TOP 5 D gave up a $hit load of points.

That was on the offense get stymied over and over. The D was excellent to start the year and they gave up hope towards the end.

CraigFL · 08-06-2012, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eaglenj

The preface of the thread is excellent and true.

However the problem is the personnel....cumberland and baker vs hernandez and gronk, but overall the philosophy is correct.

Personally I see a similar idea except 2 TE and Hill instead of 1 WR and 3 TE.

We should still be able to have a power running game, along with the threat of a pass with that group.

+1 by all accounts Hill is a very good blocker. Why take his speed threat off the field for an additional TE.

chiefst2000 · 08-06-2012, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gas2No99

As much as I have disagreed with SouthParkCPA's position on Rex as a coach/developer of talent based on that "maybin" thread, I have to agree with this point.

I love our defense, but I still contend that when it MATTERED, mostly on key 3rd down stops, they didn't get it done. So all the gaudy stats of being ranked #1, #3, #5, or whatever, don't matter because you failed to stop the opponent when it was crucial.

Do that, and scoring 23.5 ppg on offense is impressive considering all the BS this team dealt with last year

The D was solid for most of last season. The killer was turnovers. There's only so much they can do when the O is as crappy as ours was. There were tons of turnovers. Opponent starting position was an issue. Our punter wasn't good. Sanchez threw int's like crazy but also lost tons of fumbles. It is difficult to judge the D in those situations. IMO they still held their own for the most part.

chiefst2000 · 08-06-2012, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigFL

+1 by all accounts Hill is a very good blocker. Why take his speed threat off the field for an additional TE.

The only reason to do it is to try and exploit a personnel mismatch. When 3 TE's come on that field that have enough speed and pass catching ability to beat LB's and Safetys there is the opportunity to exploit a mismatch. You wouldn't run that offense exclusively but it makes sense to have a package based on 3 TE's. It can be primarily a run package with a set of passes to exploit any D that sells out against the run using a goaline/runstop D.

bigdanNJ · 08-06-2012, 01:43 PM

i think woody and rex will continue what has been going on for the last 40+ yrs,and thats the jets being the nfl's circus. woody is only concerned with one thing, headlines in the offseason to the giants. since woody has owned the team, the jets have done squat. the giants have been to 3 SB's , and winning 2. nothing has changed

08-06-2012, 11:29 AM	#2
irishxmafia not easy being a jets fan Rookie Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 573	I like the optimism but our offense will never be a powerhouse let alone a top 15 offense. We are going to play good defense and run the ball 60% of the time along with 3 TE sets (keller, cumby, baker) IMO with some down field shots to hill and some first downs to Holmes. If this offense averages 20ppg i will be surprised. Its going to be all about ball control and have the defense give up nothing. Very similar to how the 49ers played last year. Hopefully we get the same results Last edited by irishxmafia; 08-06-2012 at 11:30 AM. Reason: grammer

08-06-2012, 11:23 AM	#1
chiefst2000 Champion of Common Sense All Pro Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,820	How the Jets Can Become a Powerhouse Offense We have had a ton of discussions here about the lack of depth and experience at the WR position. Most people (myself included) are not very high on our Offenses prospects this season for a variety of reasons. Lets look at the big picture for a moment. We have Holmes, Hill and some scrubs at WR. I think Hill will be good as a burner. He should have an impact as a fly reciever. Basically when he gets one on one coverage toss it up Randy Moss style and let him go up and get it. We have Sanchez who has always been more comfortable throwing to the middle of the field then the sidelines. Of course Dustin Keller functions as an additional WR in this offense as well. There is also Cumberland who has shown promise as an athletic pass catcher. We know that Rex and Sparano want to run a physical style on offense. The ideal way to maximize the talent on the roster and play to the strengths of the team is a variation of what the Pats do go to a scheme that emphasizes two and 3 TE sets or a variation of that. Picture the Offense bringing in their Power Run personnel group. You have 1 WR (Holmes) two TE's ( Keller and Cumberland) a FB (Baker/Connor) and an RB. Here is where the fun begins.The Defense counters with their big run package. The QB see this and goes to a spread hurry up with Keller and Cumberland lined up wide. Baker moves to the TE spot and goes out into a pattern and the RB stays in to block or as a dumpoff option. You end up with either Keller of Cumberland covered by a LB or Safety. The fast pace of the offense keeps the D big package on the field. Now the opposition knows this tendency. Next time the O goes big with the 3 TE package the opposing D keeps its base D in the game. Now you go to the run with an advantage of having a bigger personnel package on the field. The power run has an advantage with TE's blocking CB's. The Pats destroyed our D last season running a variation of this scheme. Our personnel last season (when Cumberland went down) was not ideal for running the 3 TE power run/spread offense. I think that this season that type of offensive scheme makes perfect sense and gets the most talent on the field. Thoughts?

08-06-2012, 11:32 AM	#3
LockeJET pooping, but thinking of you! Hall of Fame Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 15,957	We will become a powerhouse offense when we have a powerhouse at QB.

08-06-2012, 11:36 AM	#4
KRL Veteran Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 1,720	You do realize the Jets scored 377 points last year which averages out to 23.5 points a game. That happened with: - A bad OC - No clear vision on offense - No commitment to the run - A lack of vertical speed at WR - An erratic performance by our QB

08-06-2012, 11:40 AM	#5
chiefst2000 Champion of Common Sense All Pro Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,820	The point of the scheme is to find the best way to pass the rock and exploit mismatches while running a power run scheme. Sanchez has some strengths and this scheme should exploit them. We will never be the Pats but we don't have to. Our D will be top 5 this season. It could be number one. We need to move the chains on O and cut down on turn overs. I think a major personnel advantage can be achieved by using the 3 TE spread offense to burn Defenses that try to counter with their big "stop the run" personnel grouping. If they bring it on the Jets have the personnel to switch from power run to spread pass using the same group of players. This will work only if Sanchez is able to take advantage of the mismatches and complete some passes. Later in the game the D will then think twice about countering the power run grouping with a big D "stop the run" personnel group. Advantage there goes to the Offense again.

08-06-2012, 11:41 AM	#6
mudcat21 Practice Squad Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Jersey Shore Posts: 394	Ground and Pound will fail because the Jets OL doesn't have roadgrader type OLmen to make it work. They should have picked DeCastro instead of Coples and signed Winston to be the RT when he became a free agent. Once you figure out the OL problem, then you have to admit to the QB problem. We don't have a decent one.

08-06-2012, 11:42 AM	#7
eaglenj All League Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,835	The preface of the thread is excellent and true. However the problem is the personnel....cumberland and baker vs hernandez and gronk, but overall the philosophy is correct. Personally I see a similar idea except 2 TE and Hill instead of 1 WR and 3 TE. We should still be able to have a power running game, along with the threat of a pass with that group.

08-06-2012, 01:43 PM	#20
bigdanNJ Veteran Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,158	i think woody and rex will continue what has been going on for the last 40+ yrs,and thats the jets being the nfl's circus. woody is only concerned with one thing, headlines in the offseason to the giants. since woody has owned the team, the jets have done squat. the giants have been to 3 SB's , and winning 2. nothing has changed