Logic and #24 - Page 3

124 · 08-17-2012, 08:37 AM

When was the last time a shutdown CB carried a team to a Super Bowl? I love Revis and hope he's here forever, but you don't need him to be a Top 5 defense and you don't need him to win a championship. All of those Baltimore teams either had Chris McAlister, Samari Rolle or Ladarius Webb leading the way, all good CB's but nowhere near as good as Revis. The key is getting pressure on the QB. Revis makes it easier no matter what, but if the Jets can start routinely pressuring the QB, they could win with Cromartie and Wilson if Revis throws another hissy fit next offseason.

patman · 08-17-2012, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sg3

best defensive player in the NFL

best football player ever to wear the NY Jet uniform (not counting washed up rentals like Lott or Favre)

HOFer

needs to spend his career as a Jet, retire as a Jet and then head off to Canton

PAY HIM

pay him what? Mario Williams and Peppers money? Because that is what it is going to take, to sign him next offseason. What sacrifices on the rest of the team are you going to make to keep him? You want to pay him almost 2X what the next all pro corners make just so that you can say the jets have the best corner in the nfl.

The next guy that post that Tanny is a cap wizard should look at this contract.

DDNYjets · 08-17-2012, 08:59 AM

This season is going to determine a lot for the Jets. If things don't go right, we might be going into rebuilding mode. If that is the case, it makes no sense to pay a CB that kind of money. They should trade him and use the picks and money to improve the offense. We have neglected the offense under this regime. We have enough on defense to compete.

The biggest key is Sanchez. If he doesn't show improvement we will be looking for a QB or we will be running the Tebow offense with Sparano for the next couple of years. Either way, we won't be sniffing the playoffs. Also, if we are looking for a QB then we are certainly not paying Revis what he wants. At least I hope we wouldn't. IMO , Revis' future with the Jets is tied to Sanchez' success.

Gangrene · 08-17-2012, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TokyoJetsFan

Are you Schwartz or Feinsod?

I was going to say . . .

Let's see how he does against Stevie Johnson this year before we declare him a saint.

Gangrene · 08-17-2012, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patman

it is not that the jets don't need Revis it is just that they can not afford him. you cant pay a qb 15, a LT 8, a center 8 a mlb 8 a LCB 8 and still pay Revis 15.

The pats needed Samuel and Seymour but could not afford them and still pay Brady and Wilfork 28 mil.

This says it all. Of course The Jets need him, apart from his great cb play ..from a marketing point of view he is a tremendous asset - he sells jersies and seats, he gives the Jets face time in the sports media.

However, if the Jets are serious about contending for a super bowl over the next several years they cannot afford to pay him above what they are already paying him. He is at the ceiling of what this team can afford without damaging their ability to spend on other players.

Is Darelle Revis replaceable ? No , not to his level of play, but that extra money above and beyond what he is being paid right now ... will be needed elsewhere. This depends on this year's QB play and other players approaching their first post rookie contract. A team's success is partially dependent on having a significant percentage of the roster still on their rookie contract. Likewise if you have too many football players on the roster with these mega contracts, you then have to fill many other positions with journeymen players. It's a two edged sword.

The salary cap is a wonderful thing it reminds us in a round about way that football is a team sport - It is about a combined and balanced effort by a group of talented players.

fidelioion · 08-17-2012, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

they should pay him now... cause the price is only going up.

If you pay him and the price/market goes up, he will simply hold out again.

He doesn't respect a contract so there is no reason to do anything but make him play out his current deal and try and sign him to another two or three year deal.

bitonti · 08-17-2012, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fidelioion

He doesn't respect a contract

I'm sick and tired of this line. The Jets don't respect a contract either. they just told Slauson to take a 300k paycut or walk. They did the same with Cotchery last year. No one respects contracts anymore, both sides. if we were fair about it, we'd admit that the NFL contracts should be printed on toilet paper.

bitonti · 08-17-2012, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patman

pay him what? Mario Williams and Peppers money? Because that is what it is going to take, to sign him next offseason.

Revis is better and rarer than those players. so yeah why not?

fidelioion · 08-17-2012, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

I'm sick and tired of this line. The Jets don't respect a contract either. they just told Slauson to take a 300k paycut or walk. They did the same with Cotchery last year. No one respects contracts anymore, both sides. if we were fair about it, we'd admit that the NFL contracts should be printed on toilet paper.

This is simply untrue. This line of argument is false.

The players sign the contract, giving the team the right to cancel the contract at any time. That is PART of the contract. If the Jets choose to act upon that part of the contract that's their right.

If Slauson wanted his contract guaranteed he should have negotiated for that right.

There is nothing in the NFL that says contracts can't be guaranteed it's what is negotiated.

There is nothing in Revis's contract that says he can hold-out, in fact there is something in his current contract that says he can NOT.

TokyoJetsFan · 08-17-2012, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

Revis is better and rarer than those players. so yeah why not?

I think what annoys people is Revis isn't getting paid slausen money. He's gotten tens of millions of dollars over last few years and has been one of, if not the highest paid cb's. He's screwing the teams chances to build a better roster by always wanting to be paid more. I know it's a business, but I think he should want to make a lot of money and have a great team around him. He comes off as a greedy douche every offseason. I love him as a player, but hate him as a team leader.

jetsonly · 08-17-2012, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patman

Joe Namath was never the best player in the league.

How can you compare Revis who as a CB is on about 10 plays a game with Lebron who is on easily 60 times the ball is in his hands? Revis eliminates 1/5 of the opponents offense on his best day. He covers 1 wr that is it.

Teams could send a wr out deep 20 plays and Revis will be 20 yards away from the play. You are comparing him to Rogers, Manning etc, guys who touch the ball and actually decide where to throw the ball.

Revis is a great player and is being paid like one, even though he plays a position that is easier to game plan around. You think he should be paid like a top QB, when your already paying a qb 15mill. Your willingness to have two players taking up 1/4 of the cap room that is meant for 53 players.

Teams can not do that.

This.
Some people just can't or will not execpt this.

OlTimeGiantFanFromLongAgo · 08-17-2012, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

Revis is better and rarer than those players. so yeah why not?

I don't disagree with either of those statements and would argue that Revis is quite a bit better at his position than Williams or Peppers are at theirs. However, the impact a great CB can have on a game and a team is nowhere near what even a very good DE can have. There is a reason most teams two highest paid players are their QB and pass rusher. The Jets' economic structure is backwards. If one of their young DL like Wilkerson and/or Coples develops into a big-time pass rusher, there is no way you can pay Revis.

revischrist · 08-17-2012, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYJets4life

Fixed

Either you are joking or an ignorant Jet fan (which is common place around here). This isn't baseball and this isn't the Yankees. I love fans that think we could have upgraded at RB, WR, RT, QB this past offseason. Are you not familiar with the NFL cap?

patman · 08-17-2012, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

Revis is better and rarer than those players. so yeah why not?

Fine by me, he don't play for the pats. You want to pay a guy 15 mill a season to cover a guy making 25%-50% of that go for it. That is 25 mill or 20% of the cap for your two corners. add another 45 mil for sanchez, dbrick, harris, and mangold. that leaves 55-60 mill for the other 47 guys. good luck.

revischrist · 08-17-2012, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TokyoJetsFan

I think what annoys people is Revis isn't getting paid slausen money. He's gotten tens of millions of dollars over last few years and has been one of, if not the highest paid cb's. He's screwing the teams chances to build a better roster by always wanting to be paid more. I know it's a business, but I think he should want to make a lot of money and have a great team around him. He comes off as a greedy douche every offseason. I love him as a player, but hate him as a team leader.

What do you know about him as a team leader? Do all team leaders take pay cuts? Drew Brees isn't a team leader because he threatened to hold out?

All i hear about Revis is that he has helped guys like Kyle Wilson and has been teaching Hill how to be a better WR. Its rare that CB, who is isolated on the outside to be a team leader on the field. Generally that role is reserved for the LBs.

I also remember hearing people say that Don Mattingly wasn't a team leader because he wasn't vocal enough. Some guys just aren't rah-rah kind of guys. Fact is, no one comes to a game more prepared and ready to play than Revis. When healthy, i have never seen him have a really bad game. He leads by example.

TokyoJetsFan · 08-17-2012, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revischrist

What do you know about him as a team leader? Do all team leaders take pay cuts? Drew Brees isn't a team leader because he threatened to hold out?

All i hear about Revis is that he has helped guys like Kyle Wilson and has been teaching Hill how to be a better WR. Its rare that CB, who is isolated on the outside to be a team leader on the field. Generally that role is reserved for the LBs.

I also remember hearing people say that Don Mattingly wasn't a team leader because he wasn't vocal enough. Some guys just aren't rah-rah kind of guys. Fact is, no one comes to a game more prepared and ready to play than Revis. When healthy, i have never seen him have a really bad game. He leads by example.

Drew Bree's didn't threaten to hold out with multiple years left on his contract.
Being prepared for a game is his job.

But you are right that I don't know what kind of leader he is.

bitonti · 08-17-2012, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TokyoJetsFan

He's screwing the teams chances to build a better roster by always wanting to be paid more.

it should be noted that Revis showed up this year and played. The guy gets slammed when he holds out but he gets no credit for showing up. I know that's what he's supposed to do but still. All spring the media made it out like Revis would be this huge problem... it never transpired that way. The Jets should reward him, not just for being the best defender in football, but for honoring his 2012 contract.

bitonti · 08-17-2012, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OlTimeGiantFanFromLongAgo

However, the impact a great CB can have on a game and a team is nowhere near what even a very good DE can have.

that was true 10 or 20 years ago. Now with all the 3 step drops the ends don't get to the QB as much. But a guy like Revis shutting down a Calvin Johnson all game, is more valuable.

OlTimeGiantFanFromLongAgo · 08-17-2012, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

that was true 10 or 20 years ago. Now with all the 3 step drops the ends don't get to the QB as much. But a guy like Revis shutting down a Calvin Johnson all game, is more valuable.

It's truer now than it was 20 years ago. Many teams carry 3-4 viable receivers. Jared Allen had over 20 sacks last year, Ware had over 19.5, Pierre-Paul 16.5. I think the top DEs are doing all right.

jetsonly · 08-17-2012, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitonti

it should be noted that Revis showed up this year and played. The guy gets slammed when he holds out but he gets no credit for showing up. I know that's what he's supposed to do but still. All spring the media made it out like Revis would be this huge problem... it never transpired that way. The Jets should reward him, not just for being the best defender in football, but for honoring his 2012 contract.

So my boss should reward me with more money for just showing up for work tonight?
WOW

08-17-2012, 08:37 AM	#41
124 There's NO reason to delay the process. Start Geno Smith. All Pro Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 7,970	When was the last time a shutdown CB carried a team to a Super Bowl? I love Revis and hope he's here forever, but you don't need him to be a Top 5 defense and you don't need him to win a championship. All of those Baltimore teams either had Chris McAlister, Samari Rolle or Ladarius Webb leading the way, all good CB's but nowhere near as good as Revis. The key is getting pressure on the QB. Revis makes it easier no matter what, but if the Jets can start routinely pressuring the QB, they could win with Cromartie and Wilson if Revis throws another hissy fit next offseason.

08-17-2012, 08:59 AM	#43
DDNYjets Bye week buh bye Rex Hall Of Fame Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: New York Posts: 12,286	This season is going to determine a lot for the Jets. If things don't go right, we might be going into rebuilding mode. If that is the case, it makes no sense to pay a CB that kind of money. They should trade him and use the picks and money to improve the offense. We have neglected the offense under this regime. We have enough on defense to compete. The biggest key is Sanchez. If he doesn't show improvement we will be looking for a QB or we will be running the Tebow offense with Sparano for the next couple of years. Either way, we won't be sniffing the playoffs. Also, if we are looking for a QB then we are certainly not paying Revis what he wants. At least I hope we wouldn't. IMO , Revis' future with the Jets is tied to Sanchez' success.