A RT Battle that could actually yield a player for Jets

[Dirtstar]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

Look, everything you said is true, and by no means am I singling you/your post out, but thats part of the problem on the board lately.

Sure this is a place to vent, but it should also be a place for very detailed Jets information. Sure Tanny F'd up, but do we really need to constantly rehash his firing after 2 preseason games? Do we need to start talking about new coach and GM candidates 3 weeks BEFORE the season starts? Do we really need to have 5000 debates about if sanchez is good or not?

I think its more interesting to discuss actual fixes, roster moves, player production....then read any more tebow-vs-sanchez threads.

Just my opinion...

i agree completely with you.

Tanny's a very good GM and his job should in no way be in danger. before anyone goes on the "bean counter" rant, they should look at his track record and realize that he has presided over the most successful stretch in Jets history with the obvious exception of Joe Namath's championship team.

and yes, his "bean counter" skills are very valuable because we keep hearing how the Jets will be in cap hell year after year, and yet Tanny always finds a way to get the necessary wiggle room to make moves.

but so far he has failed to fix the problem at RT, and after having gone through the Pete Kendall/Adrien Clarke fiasco just a few years ago, you would hope he'd have learned the lesson. the Otah trade could've yielded a hidden gem but that fell through, now he has two weeks to address the situation or he'll be heavily questioned all season long and rightfully so, at least with regards to this specific issue.

[Snell41]

Originally Posted by Ray Ray19

At this point, what the hell do you want the front office to do?

What players are out there for Tanny to "wake up" for?

Teams always consider training camp cuts and player movement and availability as teams are forced to trim rosters, this is a LEGITIMATE part of the personnell evaluation and movement process.

Since February, they've drafted talent, signed players in FA, why does everybody overlook the moves the team has made?

Since the RT position is everybody's favorite source in their *****ing, what players should Tanny have gone after? Everybody loves to complain, but very few offer their own solution to the problem. Anybody can *****, but if we're going to debate the issues, and there are issues, let's debate the options that could have been considered, instead of blindly *****ing about it?

At the end of the year 99.9% of all Jets fans knew we had a major issue at RT. The only reason it wasn't 100% is because guys like you and DWC that think it's all sunshine and roses with every Jets player. We employed the worst starting RT in the league last year and we needed to address that. Eric Winston was had for roughly $5m a year. That's not huge money for a guy who is considered one of the best RT's in the league. There were also a couple others including Bell in BUF. The bottom line is we have arguably the best financial GM in the league, he can find a way to make a contract work. Make no mistake there were options this offseason, instead they opted to do nothing at all and apparently hope the lightbulb turns on for Hunter. It hasn't, and it's going to cost this team the season if Tanny doesn't pull something out of his ass. As far as resolutions now, Tanny can't wait till cuts. RT's are sought after and we're not the only team who needs one. If one of these DET guys look promising then Tanny needs to get on the phone and start talking trade so we're not competing with 31 other teams for their service.

[Ray Ray19]

Originally Posted by Snell41

At the end of the year 99.9% of all Jets fans knew we had a major issue at RT. The only reason it wasn't 100% is because guys like you and DWC that think it's all sunshine and roses with every Jets player. We employed the worst starting RT in the league last year and we needed to address that. Eric Winston was had for roughly $5m a year. That's not huge money for a guy who is considered one of the best RT's in the league. There were also a couple others including Bell in BUF. The bottom line is we have arguably the best financial GM in the league, he can find a way to make a contract work. Make no mistake there were options this offseason, instead they opted to do nothing at all and apparently hope the lightbulb turns on for Hunter. It hasn't, and it's going to cost this team the season if Tanny doesn't pull something out of his ass. As far as resolutions now, Tanny can't wait till cuts. RT's are sought after and we're not the only team who needs one. If one of these DET guys look promising then Tanny needs to get on the phone and start talking trade so we're not competing with 31 other teams for their service.

Complete horse****. You won't find a post on this board from me, and I have over 10K of them that does nothing but sing roses and praise for every damn Jets player that ever played for the team, so save it.

In the case of Hunter, my whole response has been about the success the OL had when HE replaced Woody back in the 2010 season, that same season, this VERY SAME OL went to the AFCCG. Why does THIS not get accounted for? THIS is my problem with the majority of you blowhard fans that think you know it all, or spew the same tired mantra on this board everyday, "this guy sucks," "that guy sucks," etc... There is always more to the story, I take a step back and evaluate at a lower level, more than half of this board looks at everything from the surface and makes a knee jerk observation, than throws up on this board in frustration over a single play in a game. It's ridiculous.

The worst starting RT nonsense is also crap, I don't give a **** about some fan-made website. Half of the so-called "analysts" that have websites are brain dead and don't know the ****ing game, and more than half of the media that have credentials and get pay checks to analyze don't have a ****ing clue either.

I have no problem agreeing that Hunter struggled on Sat night, but he was also coming off of a back injury in camp, missed a ****ing week of practice, and was playing in his first game. How does THIS not account for anything, by ANYBODY?

I don't give a **** about last year, the entire offense had issues by the END of the year, and especially during that 3 game losing streak to end the season. Look at the stats for the first 13 games, look at Sanchez' stats, they are far better. There is a story to tell about the end of the season, and it isn't just about the cancer Holmes, and Hunter sucking, a LOT more went on, and it ALL stemmed around the team no longer buying into what Schotty was doing with the offense during the practice week and on game days. The problems also had a lot to do with the talent on offense that was NOT the OL, WR's, TE's, etc. Mulligan was awful, and contributed to MANY of the problems last year with the pass protection breakdowns. Burress was a disappointment and ultimately a big downgrade at the WR position from the year before. The team also missed Cotchery as Kerley was his replacement but was a rookie and really didnt' become a factor until later in the year. A LOT went into last year, and it WAS NOT just on Hunter, and THAT is what I've been saying for about a year and it REMAINS to be the case IMO.

So stop with the bull**** about me singing roses about every ****ing player, it's a copout response for some of you fans that dont' want to debate, you only want to see the nonsense DRIVEL YOU put up on the board and hear nothing to the contrary! At least I'm willing to give you my angle on the Hunter topic, and can agree that he needs to step it up based on his performance last week.

[ComfortablyNumb]

It just kills me to think we could have had Eric Winston at RT right now. I can't get over that....

[Ray Ray19]

Originally Posted by ComfortablyNumb

It just kills me to think we could have had Eric Winston at RT right now. I can't get over that....

Maybe because his price tag was too high for the team?

I love it when fans like snell say, "well, it was only 5 mil... not a huge number."

Really? Do you know the details of the Jets cap?

[ComfortablyNumb]

Originally Posted by Ray Ray19

Maybe because his price tag was too high for the team?

I love it when fans like snell say, "well, it was only 5 mil... not a huge number."

Really? Do you know the details of the Jets cap?

Yeah, when you take into account the fact that tannenbaum had paid Hunter 2.5 mill guaranteed just before Winston got released its not to difficult to imagine that I could have been possible.

[eaglenj]

When looking at winston, also please dont forget that maybe he didnt (or wouldnt want) to come here over KC.

KC already had a decent line in place before he got there. They have 2 excellent young backs that compiment each other very well. Two good TEs, a top flight WR in Bowe and a couple other decent WRs....arguably a better offensive nucleus then we have.

But more importantly, look at this media mess that we have on our hands with Tebow etc. If you were a player, looking at comparable money, would you rather play for KC in a weak division, or be part of this Tebow Circus and possible team-created QB controversy, along with the stigma of what happened to end last year all in a division with the Pats?

Winston is an excellent player, but we really dont know what went on behind the scenes whatsoever.

[cant wait]

Originally Posted by ComfortablyNumb

Yeah, when you take into account the fact that tannenbaum had paid Hunter 2.5 mill guaranteed just before Winston got released its not to difficult to imagine that I could have been possible.

How is that possible? Hunters first two years were going to count against the cap whether he was cut or not

[ComfortablyNumb]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

When looking at winston, also please dont forget that maybe he didnt (or wouldnt want) to come here over KC.

KC already had a decent line in place before he got there. They have 2 excellent young backs that compiment each other very well. Two good TEs, a top flight WR in Bowe and a couple other decent WRs....arguably a better offensive nucleus then we have.

But more importantly, look at this media mess that we have on our hands with Tebow etc. If you were a player, looking at comparable money, would you rather play for KC in a weak division, or be part of this Tebow Circus and possible team-created QB controversy, along with the stigma of what happened to end last year all in a division with the Pats?

Winston is an excellent player, but we really dont know what went on behind the scenes whatsoever.

You're right. I didn't mean it was a given. But to not have been able to try to bring him here with our gaping situation at the position was dissapointing. I would have rather be saying that we tried to get him but he went elsewhere. Unfortunately we'll never know.

[KRL]

Enough with the bickering, big props to eaglenj they are reporting in DET
what he researched:

http://www.prideofdetroit.com/2012/8...-new-york-jets

[gaffneycatch]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

When looking at winston, also please dont forget that maybe he didnt (or wouldnt want) to come here over KC.

KC already had a decent line in place before he got there. They have 2 excellent young backs that compiment each other very well. Two good TEs, a top flight WR in Bowe and a couple other decent WRs....arguably a better offensive nucleus then we have.

But more importantly, look at this media mess that we have on our hands with Tebow etc. If you were a player, looking at comparable money, would you rather play for KC in a weak division, or be part of this Tebow Circus and possible team-created QB controversy, along with the stigma of what happened to end last year all in a division with the Pats?

Winston is an excellent player, but we really dont know what went on behind the scenes whatsoever.

i don't buy this. no UFA player (or his agent) are going to cut off talks with a team before they even start. and if they had started, we would have known (the press always gets wind of players being pursued in free agency). could he, in the end, have chosen KC over us (as Nnamdi did with Philly, for example)? sure. but that would have come AFTER offers were put on the table and after it became public that we were pursuing the guy. in this case, there weren't even any rumors of interest that I remember. nothing. I think it's pretty clear the Jets didn't go after him. maybe for good reasons (cap, for instance), but let's not pretend that for all we know Tanny may have tried and just missed.

great thread, by the way.

[Tackleem]

Re: that Lions article.

http://www.prideofdetroit.com/2012/8...-new-york-jets

Suppose the Lions really were looking for a DB. I'd trade Steed, Lynn, Bush, Trufant, up-to-and-including Lankster. You could maybe convince me to trade Antonio Allen, though I really think he's a future starter and a steal. And, of course, Eric Smith in a universe where that were a possibility.

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by Tackleem

Re: that Lions article.

http://www.prideofdetroit.com/2012/8...-new-york-jets

Suppose the Lions really were looking for a DB. I'd trade Steed, Lynn, Bush, Trufant, up-to-and-including Lankster. You could maybe convince me to trade Antonio Allen, though I really think he's a future starter and a steal. And, of course, Eric Smith in a universe where that were a possibility.

I would be wholeheartedly against dealing allen. Smith is hurt and I cant see us moving bush. I also dont know if anyone outside the jets beat writers and us who read the tweets know or care about lancaster.

I also think its hysterical to read that one commentor actually mentioned a 2nd round pick for Cherilus. He is a very average player....and personally with their depth a 4-5th rounder would be a good get at this juncture.

[eaglenj]

Actually Cherlius graded out pretty decently and I didnt realize he is 6'7 325 now....would probably be very good vs the run. Below is his espn report....


Comment: Cherlius is a big, physical tackle whot has improved his level of play each season since entering the league in 2008. He uses his length and initial quickness to gain leverage at the point of attack. He can smother defenders if he can engage early in the play but can get exposed (athletically) versus undersized edge rushers in the passing game.

[KRL]

eaglenj I hope you realize the thread you started here will end up in one
of Cimini's articles but he'll never give you credit. He'll say one of his
"sources" or "personnel executives" gave him a tip

[bitonti]

Originally Posted by Snell41

There were also a couple others including Bell in BUF.

Demetress Bell was signed for pretty big money to replace Jason Peters. He's currently running on the 2nd team behind King Dunlap. Winston came off a pretty bad ankle injury.

We can play right tackle games all day and night but there are gonna be situations where there are 7 rushers and only 6 blockers and Mark needs to burn that blitz. It's all about Mark.

the same people who blame Wayne Hunter this year probably blamed Schotty last year. Deck chairs on the titanic. It's all about the QB.

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by KRL

eaglenj I hope you realize the thread you started here will end up in one
of Cimini's articles but he'll never give you credit. He'll say one of his
"sources" or "personnel executives" gave him a tip

Probably true, which is fine.

Amazing that none of the jets writers do any simple researh and put out an article that is actually informative. I literally looked at depth charts off espn for 20 mins last night (to the chagrin of my wife who was rollign her eyes the whole time)....that was it. Instead I open the post today and see another article about tebow or even worse, i see Serby write a FAKE conversation between coughlin and rexs before saturdays game, gee thanks!

None of the above references vrentas though, she is excellent.

[CraigFL]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

I would be wholeheartedly against dealing allen. Smith is hurt and I cant see us moving bush. I also dont know if anyone outside the jets beat writers and us who read the tweets know or care about lancaster.

I also think its hysterical to read that one commentor actually mentioned a 2nd round pick for Cherilus. He is a very average player....and personally with their depth a 4-5th rounder would be a good get at this juncture.

Some actually mentioned Cherilus for Revis straight up Alot of the posters over there are delusional, which makes it even sadder they were all poking fun at the Jets. It's just sad how far we've fallen in a year. My wife (Giants fan) was even rooting for us to score saturday, because she felt sorry for us. That, my friends, was hard to take.

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by CraigFL

Some actually mentioned Cherilus for Revis straight up Alot of the posters over there are delusional, which makes it even sadder they were all poking fun at the Jets. It's just sad how far we've fallen in a year. My wife (Giants fan) was even rooting for us to score saturday, because she felt sorry for us. That, my friends, was hard to take.

I was even going to mention wilson, in the event that lancaster really has shown enough, but truthfully I think that is overpaying.

Detroit has 5 quality OTs, which means they would need to keep 9 Olineman on the 53 which isnt happening. Getting a 5th round pick, for an above average lineman, who will be allowed to sign elsewhere in a year and who you can replace and still back up with a younger player is a good get.

It may not seem like much on paper for a starting OT, but the leverage we would have is that they cant keep them all.

[jetrider]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

I did some looking this morning (slow work day so far) and the Detriot Lions actually have an interesting situation with their OTs.

Below are 3 articles I found when I googled Jason Fox and Hilliard....

You forgot to mention Sean Yuille's article from yesterday (posted by Kelly):

Lions Could Help Jets Fill Need At Right Tackle

by Sean Yuille on Aug 20, 2012 6:14 PM EDT in Detroit Lions Opinion

Could the emergence of Riley Reiff make somebody like Gosder Cherilus expendable for the Lions?

The New York Jets' offense is an absolute mess right now. Through two preseason games, the Jets have scored a total of nine points on three field goals. They haven't found the end zone yet, and a big part of their inability to score seems to stem from poor offensive line play. Specifically, right tackle Wayne Hunter has not been good, and ESPN's John Clayton speculates that the Jets may be looking for a new right tackle.

The reason I am bringing this up is because the Detroit Lions have really good depth at offensive tackle right now. Five tackles are currently expected to make the team: starters Jeff Backus and Gosder Cherilus and backups Riley Reiff, Jason Fox and Corey Hilliard. Guys like Backus and Reiff obviously aren't going anywhere, but some of those other guys seem like they could help the Jets.

Now, the question for the Lions is this: Which tackles are actually expendable? Personally, I think Cherilus and Hilliard are the top candidates for a trade if the Lions decide to make a deal happen. Cherilus is entering the final year of his contract and is being pushed by Reiff, who got one series with the first-team offensive line against the Baltimore Ravens last week. If Reiff shows he would be able to start at right tackle in 2012, I would consider Cherilus to be expendable. As for Hilliard, he is a solid backup who can play multiple positions, but the Lions could certainly afford to part ways with him.

The thing to obviously keep in mind is that eventually Reiff will likely be the starting left tackle. Backus has another couple of years left, but when he moves on, Reiff is expected to step in for him on the left side of the line. That means that if the Lions did decide to move Cherilus (or if they decide to not re-sign him next offseason), they will need to find somebody to start at right tackle in the future. Assuming Reiff moves to the left side, somebody like Fox could step in at right tackle, but health issues have been a concern for him in the past.

The Lions also have Jonathan Scott on the roster right now. He has been injured, but perhaps we could see the Lions try to flip him for a draft pick to a team like the Jets toward the end of the preseason if he gets healthy. Right now he's not likely going to make the team, but this is where Martin Mayhew could work his magic to add a draft pick.

If the Lions were able to move Cherilus or Hilliard to the Jets, perhaps they would be dealt in exchange for a player instead of a pick. The Lions could use help in the secondary, and the Jets are pretty deep at defensive back, so it seems like a pretty good fit in terms of needs and positions of strength matching up. What do you think?