Shonn Greene - Seen enough?

[augustiniak]

Originally Posted by EM31

The problem with Greene is that he is a fragile as a pane of glass yet he tries to run as if he were indestructible. The problem is not that he is a pane of glass. The problem lies in the fact that we have not recognized this fact and made changes accordingly.

Also he cannot block worth a damn and he cannot catch out of the backfield. He is also slow and has no real change of direction. He is a straight ahead runner to gets himself dinged up every game. Literally every game.

He is also the best runner we have on the team which is a sad commentary on the other two.

so our power rb is slow, weak and can't catch. and rex loves him. what a coach!

[Nike]

rex also likes conner and he sucks

[augustiniak]

Originally Posted by Nike

rex also likes conner and he sucks

rex knows his rbs!

[parafly]

Greene is completely underwhelming in many of the key attributes of a good runner: vision, explosiveness, and elusiveness.

On top of his poor running skills, he's also terrible in the pass catching and pass protection departments. These skills are as important as ever in an NFL which has transformed into a pass heavy league.

Simply put, he has no business being a #1 running back in this league. If you think Greene is "solid" or "fine" like I have seen many times on this forum, then you either have poor analytical skills when it comes to evaluating a running back or you haven't seen what most running backs around the league are capable of doing.

[Nike]

greene would be complimented with a quick scat back type rb in tandem.

[augustiniak]

Originally Posted by parafly

Greene is completely underwhelming in many of the key attributes of a good runner: vision, explosiveness, and elusiveness.

On top of his poor running skills, he's also terrible in the pass catching and pass protection departments. These skills are as important as ever in an NFL which has transformed into a pass heavy league.

Simply put, he has no business being a #1 running back in this league. If you think Greene is "solid" or "fine" like I have seen many times on this forum, then you either have poor analytical skills when it comes to evaluating a running back or you haven't seen what most running backs around the league are capable of doing.

rbs who are not fast and can't catch make it considerably easier for defenses to stop the run and defend the pass with base personnel. no mismatch potential. plus he can't block. it's unreal.

[Nike]

Originally Posted by augustiniak

rbs who are not fast and can't catch make it considerably easier for defenses to stop the run and defend the pass with base personnel. no mismatch potential. plus he can't block. it's unreal.

he gets it.

[sec.101row23]

Originally Posted by augustiniak

rbs who are not fast and can't catch make it considerably easier for defenses to stop the run and defend the pass with base personnel. no mismatch potential. plus he can't block. it's unreal.

True. All you have to do is wait for him between the tackles. He cant run outside, doesnt have cut back ability, and cant catch. He is nowhere close to being a true #1 lead RB.

[augustiniak]

Originally Posted by sec.101row23

True. All you have to do is wait for him between the tackles. He cant run outside, doesnt have cut back ability, and cant catch. He is nowhere close to being a true #1 lead RB.

is there an easier rb to prepare for defensively? i mean, if the jets are playing against a team and that team's starting rb is greene, how do you think he's going to do against the jets front 7? it takes a guy like spiller to crap on them. the jets would stuff greene all day, like the steelers did.

i've been saying this for a while - a qb's best friend is having rbs who can catch. belichick always knew this and that's why he drafts rbs who can catch. sanchez is at an inherent disadvantage b/c he can't dump the ball off to a rb. the best passing offenses have rbs who can catch. the jets have possibly the worst one.

for a team in need of playmakers at skill positions, they essentially waste one potential spot by using greene on so many plays. they'd be better off having tomlinson in there b/c he can block, and catch a short pass and get qbs out of jams and create makable 2nd and 3rd downs.

[sec.101row23]

Originally Posted by augustiniak

is there an easier rb to prepare for defensively? i mean, if the jets are playing against a team and that team's starting rb is greene, how do you think he's going to do against the jets front 7? it takes a guy like spiller to crap on them. the jets would stuff greene all day, like the steelers did.

i've been saying this for a while - a qb's best friend is having rbs who can catch. belichick always knew this and that's why he drafts rbs who can catch. sanchez is at an inherent disadvantage b/c he can't dump the ball off to a rb. the best passing offenses have rbs who can catch. the jets have possibly the worst one.

for a team in need of playmakers at skill positions, they essentially waste one potential spot by using greene on so many plays. they'd be better off having tomlinson in there b/c he can block, and catch a short pass and get qbs out of jams and create makable 2nd and 3rd downs.

So true. Plus when Connor is in there you are wasting two spots because he contributes nothing as well.

[EM31]

Originally Posted by augustiniak

so our power rb is slow, weak and can't catch. and rex loves him. what a coach!

I am not clear that Rex loves him. What is clear is that he likes him better than the alternatives. Greene is what he is and I cannot believe that Rex sees all that much that is different than we see as fans. The logical conclusion to draw however is not that Rex is irrationally keeping Greene in there at the expense of other, more effective alternatives, but rather that Rex and his coaching staff have seen more of the alternatives than we have seen and that they are keeping him in there BECAUSE of what they know not in spite of it.

[Nike]

greene would be fine paired up with a scat back speedy elusive type rb who can share the work load.

[sec.101row23]

Originally Posted by EM31

I am not clear that Rex loves him. What is clear is that he likes him better than the alternatives. Greene is what he is and I cannot believe that Rex sees all that much that is different than we see as fans. The logical conclusion to draw however is not that Rex is irrationally keeping Greene in there at the expense of other, more effective alternatives, but rather that Rex and his coaching staff have seen more of the alternatives than we have seen and that they are keeping him in there BECAUSE of what they know not in spite of it.

Well thats even worse because they brought back the same RBs from last year. You would think if Rex wasnt thrilled with Greene, and his back ups, then they would have went out and brought in other options.

[augustiniak]

Originally Posted by sec.101row23

Well thats even worse because they brought back the same RBs from last year. You would think if Rex wasnt thrilled with Greene, and his back ups, then they would have went out and brought in other options.

there have been instances on the defensive side of the ball where rex's guys play ahead of guys who may be younger or more athletic. and greene was rex's initial vision of ground and pound and if he's benched, rex may have to admit he was wrong about him, so i'm not sure if there are other considerations here.

[Nike]

Originally Posted by sec.101row23

Well thats even worse because they brought back the same RBs from last year. You would think if Rex wasnt thrilled with Greene, and his back ups, then they would have went out and brought in other options.

the jets wasted a draft pick on ganaway and then lost him to st.louis.

[EM31]

Originally Posted by sec.101row23

Well thats even worse because they brought back the same RBs from last year. You would think if Rex wasnt thrilled with Greene, and his back ups, then they would have went out and brought in other options.

McKnight is a good returner so maybe he was kept for that reason and in the hopes that he would show significant improvement as a RB. Powell beat out Ganaway which is an indictment of Ganaway pick.

Honestly I think Greene is effective as a runner when healthy but he literally does not seem to be able last a single game without getting dinged up. Maybe Rex was hoping that all of that was just bad luck and that Greene would suddenly become more durable or that McKnight would show a big improvement or both.

At the end of the day Tanenbaum was doing pretty much what he always does by (a) looking for a splashy trade and (b) appeasing the loudest critical voices who in this case were shouting about the pass rush and WR talent. Hence the Tebow trade and the Coples and Hill picks. In a perfect world for Mike Tanenbaum he would have landed Peyton Manning but Manning is not that stupid.

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by EM31

The problem with Greene is that he is a fragile as a pane of glass yet he tries to run as if he were indestructible. The problem is not that he is a pane of glass. The problem lies in the fact that we have not recognized this fact and made changes accordingly.

Also he cannot block worth a damn and he cannot catch out of the backfield. He is also slow and has no real change of direction. He is a straight ahead runner to gets himself dinged up every game. Literally every game.

He is also the best runner we have on the team which is a sad commentary on the other two.

While not a threat to bust off on really big gains, Greene had some nice runs last night. I think if you go back and look, you'll see that our run blocking by the Oline is terrible. Moore came around on a pull/trap block, hit a defender from the side, and promptly went backwards. On another play, Mangold took his guy to the right, Slauson fired out and seems to have blocked the wrong LB.

[JamaicanJetFan]

I'm starting to wonder if Ducasse should be rotating in with Moore instead of Slauson

[Googoots]

Solid B game against a great D.

[cornjulio21]

Originally Posted by Charlie Brown

It is simple Geene isn't now and never was a number 1 RB in the NFL

There are very few #1 RB's in the NFL. It's all by committee now. The hits are too many and too hard from massive forces.

The problem is less Shonn Greene, and more that the Jets have never established a solid #2 or #3 back, and defenses know what's coming. We don't run a myriad of running plays that keeps defenses guessing. There's the Greene package of play. The McKnight package, the Tebow package. We don't run from the 4 or 5 wide. They're keyed on him and know where's he's heading.

The wildcat was so successful at first as the defense didn't know where to go. Same can be said of defensing Tebow, Vick, RG III..guys that are hard to defend cause of their options. Good offenses keep defenses off balance through their different looks. You see that from the 49ers, Pack, Pats, Mannings. We give the same looks week in and week out.

Greene delivers massive blows that do take a toll on the defense. He should get carries predominately in the 2nd half and after a couple of first downs. In the meantime, all players should be able to execute all plays.

The era of the dumbed down offense needs to end. Defenses are too good, while we don't have a plethora of experienced playmakers that will get calls. WE have just got to do a better job of keeping defenses guessing, with a QB that understands how to audible to create better mismatches or options.