Same Sex Marriage - Page 3

PlumberKhan · 10-24-2012, 09:53 PM

The bible is crap.

It's the same piece of **** book that says you should make your daughter marry her rapist.

Follow it letter by letter, religious people. Remember, your god told Lots daughter to have sex with their father in a cave after drinking a bunch if wine.

Bible! Yah!

Sent from my Double-Wide using Semaphore...

DDNYjets · 10-24-2012, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isired

I don't get that. It seems like that argument is made because marriage was defined a certain way when someone got married, they feel like it can't be opened up or redefined (not saying this is your stance, but it seems to be the argument I see most closely associated with the "they can have union, but it can't be called marriage"). I mean, we've changed the way we define "man" in the constitution, haven't we?. I can't help but feel that those that feel this way think that it 'cheapens' what it means to be married, as if gay people are less worthy, or less 'people' than them. Yet many of these same people know someone who is gay, and have no problem with them as people. It really is so similar to racism in a lot of ways ("well, not Billy, he's different, he's not like the rest of them").

I do not think the definition of "man" ever specified race. However, it would be interesting to see a dictionary from 1776, maybe it did. To my knowledge, the definition of marriage has never specified race, it specifies gender, one of each gender. We have race and gender equality laws. Do gays need there own set of equality laws or can we incorporate them into the race and gender laws? You are either a man or woman, and everyone has a race. Based on that, everyone should be treated equally. But does equality mean we change the definition of a word? Or can we just have a new word so long as they are treated equally?

Maybe I am looking at this too technically b.c I really do not have an emotional attachment to the topic. I am not even married. One can say this country discriminates against single people. Why is there a tax benefit for being married?

With that, I lay down my sword. I am tired of playing devil's advocate.

doggin94it · 10-24-2012, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OCCH

If you step away from your religious view, then it's not really your religious view, is it?

If you believe something is "wrong", then you don't vote for it. If it becomes law anyway, so be it, but that doesn't mean you have to help it along the way (assuming it truly is something you don't agree with) . . .

Not at all. I would never vote for a law banning paganism, for example, because regardless of my view on the merits of paganism, that's not the way america works.

Would you vote to repeal the first amendment and impose christianity as g the state religion?

Bonhomme Richard · 10-24-2012, 10:36 PM

Like Obama, my views on same sex marriage are evolving. I'm not there yet, though, because I don't have an idiot vice-president forcing my hand.

21st Amendment · 10-24-2012, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonhomme Richard

Like Obama, my views on same sex marriage are evolving. I'm not there yet, though, because I don't have an idiot vice-president forcing my hand.

Obama had politics in his way, what's your excuse?

Warfish · 10-24-2012, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doggin94it

......because regardless of my view on the merits of paganism...............

You have an opinion on the merits of Paganism?

Seriosuly my friend, that you HAVE to share.

Bonhomme Richard · 10-24-2012, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 21st Amendment

Obama had politics in his way, what's your excuse?

How can you be sure it was only politics holding him back?

21st Amendment · 10-24-2012, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonhomme Richard

How can you be sure it was only politics holding him back?

Because he supported gay marriage before he was a national candidate.

AlwaysGreenAlwaysWhite · 10-24-2012, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 21st Amendment

Obama had politics in his way, what's your excuse?

Politics is what made him 'change his mind'... lol

Bonhomme Richard · 10-24-2012, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 21st Amendment

Because he supported gay marriage before he was a national candidate.

Could have just been politics then too.

Anyway, my "excuse" is that it's a shame the civil union laws never achieved what they were intended to do. I don't consider marriage as just a piece of paper you get from a judge, I still consider it a Holy Sacrament.

21st Amendment · 10-24-2012, 11:13 PM

I freely admit the President has been pretty damn cowardice on this issue. No doubt about that.

21st Amendment · 10-24-2012, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonhomme Richard

Could have just been politics then too.

Anyway, my "excuse" is that it's a shame the civil union laws never achieved what they were intended to do. I don't consider marriage as just a piece of paper you get from a judge, I still consider it a Holy Sacrament.

I'm sure many gay people believe that too.

21st Amendment · 10-24-2012, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 21st Amendment

I freely admit the President has been pretty damn cowardice on this issue. No doubt about that.

with that said, the President supported gay marriage well before he ever came out and voiced his opinion on it. His administration has supported gay couples from the get go, they greased the wheels against DOMA for example. And that matters far more than the simple gesture.

Warfish · 10-24-2012, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonhomme Richard

I don't consider marriage as just a piece of paper you get from a judge, I still consider it a Holy Sacrament.

So you'd support a legal limitation that the non-faithful (who cannot partake of the Sacriments) should be legally banned from marriage then too, right?

Bonhomme Richard · 10-24-2012, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 21st Amendment

I'm sure many gay people believe that too.

Therein lies the problem. The Church still considers homosexuality a sin. I personally don't, because like life, faith isn't black & white. It's complicated, and influenced by society.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warfish

So you'd support a legal limitation that the non-faithful (who cannot partake of the Sacriments) should be legally banned from marriage then too, right?

That legal limitation already exists. Whether I support it or not is irrelevant. The crux of the issue is allowing all of the same legal rights to gay couples via nontraditional means -- like how I said it's a shame civil union laws never achieved what they were intended to achieve.

Bonhomme Richard · 10-24-2012, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 21st Amendment

with that said, the President supported gay marriage well before he ever came out and voiced his opinion on it. His administration has supported gay couples from the get go, they greased the wheels against DOMA for example. And that matters far more than the simple gesture.

It also took a ****ing eternity to roll back DADT (which I was against, incidentally).

21st Amendment · 10-24-2012, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonhomme Richard

It also took a ****ing eternity to roll back DADT (which I was against, incidentally).

Nothing comes easy in this climate, the President wanted to build support within the military, and he got it with Gates and Mullen.

21st Amendment · 10-24-2012, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonhomme Richard

Therein lies the problem. The Church still considers homosexuality a sin. I personally don't, because like life, faith isn't black & white. It's complicated, and influenced by society.

The Church believes a lot of things. The best thing about modern Christianity (compared to Muslim world) they don't take the crazy sh-t their church says or thinks seriously.

Bonhomme Richard · 10-24-2012, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 21st Amendment

Nothing comes easy in this climate, the President also wanted to build support within the military, and he got it with Gates and Mullen.

That's a copout. For the first two years of his administration the Democrats controlled the House and the Senate, and the only thing he was able to pass was a gutted healthcare law that was a hollow shell of what he really wanted.

That's my biggest gripe with Obama -- his lack of leadership skills, and his inability to not only reach across the aisle but also deal with ego-driven members of his own party is frustrating, to say the least. He doesn't act; he reacts. The Benghazi debacle was the most recent example of that.

Bonhomme Richard · 10-24-2012, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 21st Amendment

"The Church" believes a lot of things. The best thing about modern Christianity (compared to Muslim world) they don't take the crazy sh-t their church says seriously.

The only modern thing about Catholicism is that they changed the responses during mass.

10-24-2012, 11:13 PM	#51
21st Amendment Banned Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 576	I freely admit the President has been pretty damn cowardice on this issue. No doubt about that. Last edited by 21st Amendment; 10-24-2012 at 11:18 PM.

10-24-2012, 09:53 PM	#41
PlumberKhan BRACE YOURSELVES FOR 12... Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Van down by the river Posts: 21,029	The bible is crap. It's the same piece of **** book that says you should make your daughter marry her rapist. Follow it letter by letter, religious people. Remember, your god told Lots daughter to have sex with their father in a cave after drinking a bunch if wine. Bible! Yah! Sent from my Double-Wide using Semaphore...

10-24-2012, 10:36 PM	#44
Bonhomme Richard Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 4,103	Like Obama, my views on same sex marriage are evolving. I'm not there yet, though, because I don't have an idiot vice-president forcing my hand.