Question for SAR

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Rookie QB asked to start immediately. Goes 20-12 in his first two seasons, 4-2 in his first two postseasons.

Boy, I'd hate to have a guy like that leading my team.

SAR I

And then, after 38 actual NFL starts, when expected to have progressed and when asked to step up and shoulder some of the load instead of being carried by the defense and the running game, fails miserably at it.....

[SlickBri481]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Rookie QB asked to start immediately. Goes 20-12 in his first two seasons, 4-2 in his first two postseasons.

Boy, I'd hate to have a guy like that leading my team.

SAR I

Russell Wilson, 3rd round pick, has thrown 13 TDs his first season in 9 games. Sanchez threw 12 TDs in 16 games his rookie season. Wilson is considered by some to only be the 4th best rookie QB THIS SEASON. And he's blowing away what Sanchez did his rookie year when drafted #5.

Yeah, I'd sure love to get what Mark gave us his rookie year, nobody else could have duplicated 12 TDs and 20 INTs... or maybe it was his 100 yard passing performance against the Chargers, nobody could have done that

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Oh that Green Bay game is on Mark, not the defense, no doubt.

Just like the Detroit, Houston, Denver, Cleveland, and Indianapolis games were WON by Mark in the same season, games in which the defense couldn't hold a lead late and only Mark's heroics saved the day and the season.

The 2010 Jets are 7-9 without Mark Sanchez.

SAR I

Total and complete logic fail. With a truly competent QB, the Jets would have won the games that you say Mark "won", and they would have won some of the ones that Mark lost as well.

[SlickBri481]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

Total and complete logic fail. With a truly competent QB, the Jets would have won the games that you say Mark "won", and they would have won some of the ones that Mark lost as well.

Didn't you know, Sanchez gets credit for playing horribly in those games prior to his end of game comeback

Pretty much none of those teams was even good too which makes this whole thing even more hilarious. Detroit, Denver, Houston, and Cleveland were all horrible teams and the Coilts game, Sanchez threw for like 180 yards and led us to 17 points against a bad D. To SAR, this is the stuff of "legend"

[brex]

Originally Posted by Down, Set, Haiku

+1... Nothing more needs to be said.
/thread

Yeah that's an apples to apples comparison. Wait...who's the Jets version of Jerry Rice? Chaz Schilens?

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by brex

Yeah that's an apples to apples comparison. Wait...who's the Jets version of Jerry Rice? Chaz Schilens?

Did you actually watch the clip? Montana is making throws while being crushed by Clyde Simmons/Reggie White, etc. He gets pummeled for 3 straight quarters and then leads his team to a huge comeback single-handedly despite STILL getting crushed on every drop back.

What difference does it make who the receivers are if Sanchez is going to fold like a cheap suit the second he feels pressure, and lacks the toughness to step into a throw when under duress?

But ultimately, you're right, it's not a n apples to apples comparison. Joe Montana is the G.O.A.T. or close to it, and the only people who will still be talking about Mark Sanchez in 2014 are Jets fans.

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

Did you actually watch the clip? Montana is making throws while being crushed by Clyde Simmons/Reggie White, etc. He gets pummeled for 3 straight quarters and then leads his team to a huge comeback single-handedly despite STILL getting crushed on every drop back.

What difference does it make who the receivers are if Sanchez is going to fold like a cheap suit the second he feels pressure, and lacks the toughness to step into a throw when under duress?

But ultimately, you're right, it's not a n apples to apples comparison. Joe Montana is the G.O.A.T. or close to it, and the only people who will still be talking about Mark Sanchez in 2014 are Jets fans.

Thing is, many here conflate different notions/ideas of toughness. They'll point out that Sanchez has taken some huge hits in the pocket and he's gotten up from them and continued to play, whereas, other QBs might have gotten knocked out of games.

What they don't stop and consider is that while Sanchez CAN take a hit, it's highly questionable if he is willing to, or just how skittish he is when he sees the rush coming. He panics and is easily spooked.

[Buzzsaw]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Mark Sanchez was not drafted to lead the 1980 San Diego Chargers Air Coryell Offense.

He is not supposed to be asked to throw the ball 50 times a game, especially with the craptastic receiving targets he's been given.

As usual, here's a heated Mark Sanchez thread on an angry Friday. Where's the Shonn Greene thread? Where's the Rex Ryan thread? Where's the Bart Scott David Harris thread? Where is the finger of blame and why isn't it being pointed at the right villains?

Mark Sanchez isn't playing well right now. We all know this. That isn't the point.

The point is that even with Mark playing weakly we are SUPPOSED to win it on DEFENSE and a POWER RUNNING GAME of which we have NEITHER. Talk about THAT.

I wish that Mark Sanchez was the problem. Truly, I do. Would be so simple if we could just remove him like Testaverde '02 and have a magical turnaround to a division title. He's not the problem. He's not the quick-fix. The defense SUCKS and the running game SUCKS and the coaching is MEDIOCRE and so the fact that the quarterback is weak doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things.

SAR I

Truth. Would be nice if we could just plug another QB in there and be a contender, but that's not the case. This team is seriously flawed, there's a lack of talent across the board.

The next QB is going to fail hard if we continue this philosophy of changing receivers yearly and failing to use high picks on game-changing skill position players.

[Charlie Brown]

Originally Posted by Buzzsaw

Truth. Would be nice if we could just plug another QB in there and be a contender, but that's not the case. This team is seriously flawed, there's a lack of talent across the board.

The next QB is going to fail hard if we continue this philosophy of changing receivers yearly and failing to use high picks on game-changing skill position players.

I agree 100%

How is it possible that the Jets FO doesn't realize this very basic but essential point!!!!

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by Buzzsaw

Truth. Would be nice if we could just plug another QB in there and be a contender, but that's not the case. This team is seriously flawed, there's a lack of talent across the board.

The next QB is going to fail hard if we continue this philosophy of changing receivers yearly and failing to use high picks on game-changing skill position players.

Everything Rex and Mike do is overboard, too excess.

So if the last two seasons they knee-jerked for the defense it stands to reason that next year they'll do the same for the offense. But this constant reaching for questionable players with supposedly big 'upside' that only tend to bust has got to stop and is killing us.

SAR I

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by SAR I

But this constant reaching for questionable players with supposedly big 'upside' that only tend to bust has got to stop and is killing us.

SAR I

I can promise you there are people on this board wondering if you'll see the irony in that statement.

All debate aside, I hope you're right. I really do. Life is 10X easier for all Jets fans if they don't have to find and groom yet another QB.

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

I can promise you there are people on this board wondering if you'll see the irony in that statement.

All debate aside, I hope you're right. I really do. Life is 10X easier for all Jets fans if they don't have to find and groom yet another QB.

Forget the quarterback position for the moment. That's not how we're supposed to win.

The defense is soft, can't stop the run, still no pass rush, the youngsters are busting all over the place.

The running game doesn't exist, has a few spurts against terrible teams, shut down completely against the elites.

The special teams have fallen apart, what was once a rock-solid strength is now a big liability.

The coaching has gotten worse, critical Miami game and the team comes out flat, new offensive coordinator who's worse than the guy we got rid of, investment in first/second year front-seven players not being developed, clock management, timeouts, dumb penalties.

After you've exhausted all mental energy on those four areas in which our success is based, then you can have the luxury of taking shots at the quarterback position. It's a complimentary component of a bigger strategy. The fail of Shonn Greene or Muhammad Wilkerson is 10x more important than the fail of Mark Sanchez. Focus on that, people.

SAR I

[sdJETSetter]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Forget the quarterback position for the moment. That's not how we're supposed to win.

The defense is soft, can't stop the run, still no pass rush, the youngsters are busting all over the place.

The running game doesn't exist, has a few spurts against terrible teams, shut down completely against the elites.

The special teams have fallen apart, what was once a rock-solid strength is now a big liability.

The coaching has gotten worse, critical Miami game and the team comes out flat, new offensive coordinator who's worse than the guy we got rid of, investment in first/second year front-seven players not being developed, clock management, timeouts, dumb penalties.

After you've exhausted all mental energy on those four areas in which our success is based, then you can have the luxury of taking shots at the quarterback position. It's a complimentary component of a bigger strategy. The fail of Shonn Greene or Muhammad Wilkerson is 10x more important than the fail of Mark Sanchez. Focus on that, people.

SAR I

QBs are team leaders on and off the field. While their success surely depends on the talent they are surrounded with, the cream of the crop finds a way to win REGARDLESS of the talent around them. Maybe not SB's, but certainly offer more solidity and improvement than Mark has shown.

Teams can not be built from top to bottom with talent. 9 out of 10 times, you arent going to end up with a top notch defense, running game, and wide receiving corp.

He sucks man. The Talent around him is average, but we dont need to wait and dream about building a SB team around him in order to succeed.

Thats just stupid. No team takes that approach. At least sensibly.

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by sdJETSetter

QBs are team leaders on and off the field. While their success surely depends on the talent they are surrounded with, the cream of the crop finds a way to win REGARDLESS of the talent around them. Maybe not SB's, but certainly offer more solidity and improvement than Mark has shown.

Teams can not be built from top to bottom with talent. 9 out of 10 times, you arent going to end up with a top notch defense, running game, and wide receiving corp.

....or, another way to look at it is:

Only Mark Sanchez' heroics in 5 critical games in 2010 prevented Rex Ryan's mediocre defense from going 7-9 and no playoffs instead of 11-5 and another AFCCG appearance.

Everything you ask from Mark Sanchez today is precisely what he gave you at Detroit, Cleveland, Denver, Houston, and Indianapolis in 2010. Played beyond his abilities. Elevated the play of the entire offense. Led us back from blown 4th quarter leads to get improbable victories. Did it two weeks ago at New England.

The problem today is threefold:

1. Even less playmakers now than he had in '09 and '10.

2. Punch-drunk from two years of horrific OL play.

3. Lack of confidence in him.

Mark has proven that he has what it takes. The Defense has not. Greene has not. Ryan has not. Tannenbaum has not.

You are going after the wrong bad guy. Worse, you are blaming the victim.

SAR I

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by sdJETSetter

Teams can not be built from top to bottom with talent. 9 out of 10 times, you arent going to end up with a top notch defense, running game, and wide receiving corp.

He sucks man. The Talent around him is average, but we dont need to wait and dream about building a SB team around him in order to succeed.

Thats just stupid. No team takes that approach. At least sensibly.

The "stupid" approach is trying to win a Championship using the 1985 Bears and 1959 Packers as your inspiration. In today's NFL, it can't happen. The rules are built for offenses and quarterbacks to succeed.

Everything the Jets are doing is wrong. They've deliberately neglected the offense to indulge Rex Ryan's fantasy of a defense that could be the equal of his father's and it's not working. It can't work.

We're not deaf. We listen to what we're told. We can see with our own eyes. The Rex Ryan Jets are designed to win on a stifling defense and a ball-control running game. All of our draft choices, all of our gameplanning, all of our playcalling, all of the pregame rhetoric, all of the postgame boasting, it's all about the defense and the running game. Defense and running game. Defense and running game.

So jumping up and down about the quarterback is futile as he isn't how we're supposed to win. We're not built for that. Mark Sanchez looks like crap by design. Because the defense can't stop anyone, because the RB can't do anything, because we are three-and-out city every first quarter, because we are always in the hole by two-scores early, we throw the ball. Throw it everywhere. Throw throw throw.

Problem is, we're not staffed for that. Rex Ryan has built an Army that can't win on the ground so he's asking his combat soliders to put on a flight suit and fly airplanes despite the fact that we've got no pilots, got no Air Force.

SAR I

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Mark has proven that he has what it takes.

SAR I

What Sanchez has proven is that he is an inaccurate, undisciplined passer, who does not read coverage well, does not handle rush pressure at all, and is prone to both INT and fumble at a disturbing pace.

He may not be the only problem, I agree.

He's simply a major problem, in the single most vital position on the field.

You say he wasn't drafted to....

I say he was drafted to be a Francise Quarterback.

And not all the Chad-style verbal defense on all the forums on the internet can save him from being benched and cut loose if he does not drasticly improve, poor cast or no poor cast.

This is the NFL. Like it or not, winning starts and finishes at the QB position, regardless of what that QB "was drafted to do".

Pointing out that Harris may also suck is alot like pointing out you have an STD.....when you already have Cancer of the QB.

The fail of Shonn Greene or Muhammad Wilkerson is 10x more important than the fail of Mark Sanchez.

This is a perfect example of a fundamental lack of understanding of how NFL Football works.

[southparkcpa]

Originally Posted by Warfish

What Sanchez has proven is that he is an inaccurate, undisciplined passer, who does not read coverage well, does not handle rush pressure at all, and is prone to both INT and fumble at a disturbing pace.

He may not be the only problem, I agree.

He's simply a major problem, in the single most vital position on the field.

You say he wasn't drafted to....

I say he was drafted to be a Francise Quarterback.

And not all the Chad-style verbal defense on all the forums on the internet can save him from being benched and cut loose if he does not drasticly improve, poor cast or no poor cast.

This is the NFL. Like it or not, winning starts and finishes at the QB position, regardless of what that QB "was drafted to do".

Pointing out that Harris may also suck is alot like pointing out you have an STD.....when you already have Cancer of the QB.



This is a perfect example of a fundamental lack of understanding of how NFL Football works.

The problem with this ^^^^^^post it is accurate....unfortunatley so is SAR's post.

THAT is the problem, the JETS dont know what they have in or how to manage and or develop a team around Mark.

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

Id like you to explain the above post.

1. Jennings has been hurt the entire year.

2. Finley has 47 catches for a whopping 271 yards and 1 TD

3. The GB line has given up 29 sacks.

4. GB has not had a back over 100 yards this year

So when guys went down, people like james jones (a drop prone, average WR) and randall cobb (a 2nd year player, drafted with the last pick of the 2nd round) came in and have THRIVED.

Could it at all be possible, that this happened because the QB knows how to get his guys in the right spots, and gets them the ball, even when his line is struggling and his running game isnt going?

You have yet to answer my question....

[sdJETSetter]

Originally Posted by SAR I

The "stupid" approach is trying to win a Championship using the 1985 Bears and 1959 Packers as your inspiration. In today's NFL, it can't happen. The rules are built for offenses and quarterbacks to succeed.

Everything the Jets are doing is wrong. They've deliberately neglected the offense to indulge Rex Ryan's fantasy of a defense that could be the equal of his father's and it's not working. It can't work.

We're not deaf. We listen to what we're told. We can see with our own eyes. The Rex Ryan Jets are designed to win on a stifling defense and a ball-control running game. All of our draft choices, all of our gameplanning, all of our playcalling, all of the pregame rhetoric, all of the postgame boasting, it's all about the defense and the running game. Defense and running game. Defense and running game.

So jumping up and down about the quarterback is futile as he isn't how we're supposed to win. We're not built for that. Mark Sanchez looks like crap by design. Because the defense can't stop anyone, because the RB can't do anything, because we are three-and-out city every first quarter, because we are always in the hole by two-scores early, we throw the ball. Throw it everywhere. Throw throw throw.

Problem is, we're not staffed for that. Rex Ryan has built an Army that can't win on the ground so he's asking his combat soliders to put on a flight suit and fly airplanes despite the fact that we've got no pilots, got no Air Force.

SAR I

I agree. The defense has looked old, tired, and with the exception of a few quarters of football, outmatched going back to the middle of last season.

Points allowed certainly dont tell the entire tale, but look back to last season and you will see the NYJ giving up 24+ points on a regular basis. More often than not over 30 point per.

I guess we will have to disagree about how best to handle Mark Sanchez. Id rather just cut him after next season, rather than build a superior team around him to support him. That is a tough puzzle to put together in this NFL.

[JetsFanatic]

Originally Posted by SAR I

My answer is very simple:

He has no tools to work with. The worst OL, worst RB, worst receivers, worst OC since the pre-Parcells era, you need to go back to Kotite to find something as bad.

In games where our awful OL, RB, and WR's overmatch pathetic competition, we're 3-0. In games where our awful OL, RB, and WR's are overmatched by decent or superior competition, we're 0-5.

This ain't rocket science.

SAR I

He also is part of the problem. He was the fifth pick of the draft, he should do for us what Andrew Luck is doing for the Colts, but he can't. Stop making excuses for him!! I'll take it from a different angle, maybe if Rex had a QB we would be winning.