I found this surprising about our running backs...

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by sec.101row23

Considering it is a passing league and the Jets were supposed to be a ground and pound team, a 3.8 YPC average is pretty bad.

Exactly.

The stats show that the Jets are desperately trying to run the ball and establish the ground and pound and are failing miserably because the running backs are so weak.

And in games against elite teams where we fall behind big and early, we air the ball out 40+ times and compile sloppy mercy yardage on the ground late.

And before someone puts up some silly defensive stats, the same thing goes on that side of the ball as well. The problem with being a Jekyll and Hyde team that can feast on the weaklings and get destroyed by the elites is that if you play enough weaklings those stats can overcome how bad things were against the better teams.

We all watch the same games. I think we know how bad we are on offense, defense, special-teams. Trying to find the smoking gun and say woo hoo look I found the single problem is a useless waste of time.

SAR I

[McGinley]

Originally Posted by sec.101row23

They have stayed healthy this year and are playing as a unit. Howard is now used to playing, remember he was named starter very late in pre-season and did not get a lot of work with the starters.

Yea, that's true. I honestly haven't even really noticed Austin, tbh. I suppose that's for the best, lol. Hope he shuts down the 100 Million Dollar Man again.

[sec.101row23]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Exactly.

The stats show that the Jets are desperately trying to run the ball and establish the ground and pound and are failing miserably because the running backs are so weak.

And in games against elite teams where we fall behind big and early, we air the ball out 40+ times and compile sloppy mercy yardage on the ground late.

And before someone puts up some silly defensive stats, the same thing goes on that side of the ball as well. The problem with being a Jekyll and Hyde team that can feast on the weaklings and get destroyed by the elites is that if you play enough weaklings those stats can overcome how bad things were against the better teams.

We all watch the same games. I think we know how bad we are on offense, defense, special-teams. Trying to find the smoking gun and say woo hoo look I found the single problem is a useless waste of time.

SAR I

What has happened now is that people somehow have come to the conclusion that if you say the WR group is not very good, you are making excuses for Sanchez, or if you say the RBs are exceedingly average, you are making excuses for Sanchez. If you criticize the defense, they will blame Sanchez because they were on the field too long. So people tend to look at things in a vacuum and want to assign blame to a specific player.

It is possible to look at this team and say, yes Sanchez has played horribly and is not a good QB, and ALSO say that this team needs some serious talent upgrades, on both sides of the ball, to be legit playoff contender.

[sec.101row23]

Originally Posted by McGinley

Yea, that's true. I honestly haven't even really noticed Austin, tbh. I suppose that's for the best, lol. Hope he shuts down the 100 Million Dollar Man again.

You are right, how many times did we hear the name Wayne Hunter last season and during this preseason?? Howard has been a pleasant surprise.

[usapaw]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Exactly.

The stats show that the Jets are desperately trying to run the ball and establish the ground and pound and are failing miserably because the running backs are so weak.

And in games against elite teams where we fall behind big and early, we air the ball out 40+ times and compile sloppy mercy yardage on the ground late.

And before someone puts up some silly defensive stats, the same thing goes on that side of the ball as well. The problem with being a Jekyll and Hyde team that can feast on the weaklings and get destroyed by the elites is that if you play enough weaklings those stats can overcome how bad things were against the better teams.

We all watch the same games. I think we know how bad we are on offense, defense, special-teams. Trying to find the smoking gun and say woo hoo look I found the single problem is a useless waste of time.

SAR I

The other teams stack the box because they are daring MS to try and throw the ball. High % play as it is very likely MS will panic and miss the "Mark" or the play will result in a pick. MS is a useless waste of time.

[SlickBri481]

Originally Posted by jxc

...the Jets are ranked 12th in rushing yards per game. I figure with all the blame they get they'd at least be in the bottom 5:

Rk 	Team 	  		G 	Pts/G 	TotPts 	Att 	Att/G 	Yds 	Avg 	Yds/G 	TD 	Lng 	1st 	1st% 	20+ 	40+ 	FUM
1 	Washington Redskins 	12 	26 	312 	379 	31.6 	2,006 	5.3 	167.2 	13 	76T 	105 	27.7 	13 	2 	11
2 	San Francisco 49ers 	12 	24.1 	289 	369 	30.8 	1,945 	5.3 	162.1 	13 	50 	102 	27.6 	14 	1 	5
3 	Minnesota Vikings 	12 	21.8 	262 	336 	28.0 	1,859 	5.5 	154.9 	10 	82T 	76 	22.6 	21 	5 	9
4 	Buffalo Bills 	 	12 	23.1 	277 	342 	28.5 	1,775 	5.2 	147.9 	9 	56T 	82 	24.0 	14 	4 	5
5 	Kansas City Chiefs 	12 	15.7 	188 	392 	32.7 	1,760 	4.5 	146.7 	7 	91T 	93 	23.7 	8 	3 	10
6 	Houston Texans 	 	12 	29.2 	351 	413 	34.4 	1,710 	4.1 	142.5 	16 	81T 	95 	23.0 	10 	2 	4
7 	Seattle Seahawks 	12 	20.2 	242 	393 	32.8 	1,696 	4.3 	141.3 	6 	77T 	88 	22.4 	5 	1 	6
8 	New England Patriots 	12 	35.8 	430 	401 	33.4 	1,689 	4.2 	140.8 	19 	47 	116 	28.9 	10 	2 	4
9 	Philadelphia Eagles 	12 	18.1 	217 	329 	27.4 	1,603 	4.9 	133.6 	8 	65T 	90 	27.4 	14 	2 	16
10 	Chicago Bears 	 	12 	24.5 	294 	361 	30.1 	1,473 	4.1 	122.8 	9 	46T 	74 	20.5 	8 	2 	3
11 	Tampa Bay Buccaneers 	12 	27.8 	333 	316 	26.3 	1,410 	4.5 	117.5 	11 	70T 	68 	21.5 	10 	4 	2
12 	New York Jets 	 	12 	19 	228 	363 	30.2 	1,382 	3.8 	115.2 	8 	61 	69 	19.0 	4 	1 	6

Look at our last 3 wins (Colts, Rams, Cards). Our ground game dominated. It's not 12th best in the league though, we average a weak YPC, which is far more important than total yards.

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by sec.101row23

What has happened now is that people somehow have come to the conclusion that if you say the WR group is not very good, you are making excuses for Sanchez, or if you say the RBs are exceedingly average, you are making excuses for Sanchez. If you criticize the defense, they will blame Sanchez because they were on the field too long. So people tend to look at things in a vacuum and want to assign blame to a specific player.

It is possible to look at this team and say, yes Sanchez has played horribly and is not a good QB, and ALSO say that this team needs some serious talent upgrades, on both sides of the ball, to be legit playoff contender.

Since 1999, the Jets have been one of the most fortunate teams in the league in one area, and it's really spoiled the ignorant fans among us. Whenever we've made a major change at head coach or quarterback, we always think we're going to take a step back but instead we take leaps forward.

Parcells leaves, Groh has us at 9-4. Groh leaves, Edwards gets us to the playoffs. Testeverde breaks down, Pennington explodes to an AFCE title. Edwards goes, Mangini makes the playoffs. Pennington's out, Favre gets us to 9-3. Mangini's out, Ryan gets us to AFCCG. Favre's out, Sanchez wins 4 playoff games.

In fact, if you are under the age of 30, you only know the Jets as a successful winning franchise. Furthermore, you are spoiled and preprogrammed to believe that there's always a quick fix for this team. Replace the quarterback, boom instant, success. Replace the head coach, boom, instant success. You can't blame some of these JI posters because it's all they know.

This time, the older fans know better. There is no quick fix, no miracle around the corner. Years of neglect under the hands of Rex Ryan have doomed this team for a ways to go. Those other head coaches in retrospect at least drafted well enough to get us ready for the head coach to follow. Rex Ryan didn't live up to his end of the bargain, he got fat off of other coaches drafts and now we're going to pay the price.

SAR I

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by McGinley

Just wondering if it was me or not, but has anyone noticed that Greene and Powell have been getting some pretty decent-good yardage? Idk, it seems like I see them getting 4 or so yards more often in the latest weeks.

Originally Posted by Flaming Mo

The line has definitely moved people of the ball in recent weeks. Even at the beginning of the Pats they had a bunch of good runs. But it seems like everything is a little too late.

Originally Posted by sec.101row23

They have stayed healthy this year and are playing as a unit. Howard is now used to playing, remember he was named starter very late in pre-season and did not get a lot of work with the starters.

They've also changed up the blocking schemes or the play calling (to plays that use different blocking schemes. Our guys are working angles a lot more, traps, pulls, whams, what have you.

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Since 1999, the Jets have been one of the most fortunate teams in the league in one area, and it's really spoiled the ignorant fans among us. Whenever we've made a major change at head coach or quarterback, we always think we're going to take a step back but instead we take leaps forward.

Parcells leaves, Groh has us at 9-4. Groh leaves, Edwards gets us to the playoffs. Testeverde breaks down, Pennington explodes to an AFCE title. Edwards goes, Mangini makes the playoffs. Pennington's out, Favre gets us to 9-3. Mangini's out, Ryan gets us to AFCCG. Favre's out, Sanchez wins 4 playoff games.

In fact, if you are under the age of 30, you only know the Jets as a successful winning franchise. Furthermore, you are spoiled and preprogrammed to believe that there's always a quick fix for this team. Replace the quarterback, boom instant, success. Replace the head coach, boom, instant success. You can't blame some of these JI posters because it's all they know.

This time, the older fans know better. There is no quick fix, no miracle around the corner. Years of neglect under the hands of Rex Ryan have doomed this team for a ways to go. Those other head coaches in retrospect at least drafted well enough to get us ready for the head coach to follow. Rex Ryan didn't live up to his end of the bargain, he got fat off of other coaches drafts and now we're going to pay the price.

SAR I

yes and no. Sure, there are a lot of problems that need to be addressed, and you've one on at length about all of them.

But here's the thing. WITH COMPETENT PLAY AT THE QB POSITION, we'd be 7-5 right now and in the playoff picture.

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

yes and no. Sure, there are a lot of problems that need to be addressed, and you've one on at length about all of them.

But here's the thing. WITH COMPETENT PLAY AT THE QB POSITION, we'd be 7-5 right now and in the playoff picture.

We'd be at 7-5 another way WITH COMPETENT PLAY ON DEFENSE AND ST'S too:

The Jets had a lead on the Patriots in New England with 90 seconds left on the clock. The defense blew the game.

The Jets had the Dolphins at home, facing their backup quarterback no less. The defense blew the game.

The quarterback isn't playing well, but we are supposed to win games on our stellar defense and it's not happening. All those great coaches, all those great draft picks, that beefed up free-agent secondary, they were supposed to win games like this for us.

And let's talk special teams too. We have the best special teams coach of all time yet he let up game changing touchdowns in both of those contests.

Those two games were extremely winnable and the Jets would be sitting here at 7-5 today if those games went the way they should have on defense and special teams, two areas that have been a significant, concentration for this club. The quarterback isn't blameless, but he is not to blame.

SAR I

[Foggy]

...and we'd be 9-3 if we had both?

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by SAR I

In fact, if you are under the age of 30, you only know the Jets as a successful winning franchise.

Since it's so rare, I like to +1 when I can agree with you SAR.

Furthermore, you are spoiled and preprogrammed to believe that there's always a quick fix for this team. Replace the quarterback, boom instant, success. Replace the head coach, boom, instant success. You can't blame some of these JI posters because it's all they know.

But on this I disagree. For every chucklehead who gives a player or Coach all of two minutes to succeed or else, there are an equal number of homers who will defend a Jets poor play till the milisecond he is cut, and many who'll then pine for that mediocre player for the rest of time, often posting that players every move elsewhere.

This time, the older fans know better. There is no quick fix, no miracle around the corner.

I would almost universally agree.....but for once, I don't.

I think almost any change at QB to a middle-of-the-road talent is an instant upgrade and would bear fruit in all aspects of the teams play.

An average QB, playing average, and turning it over much less overall than Sanchez does, and we're immediately a better team.

How much better? Who knows. But better without any question in my mind.

[WestCoastOffensive]

Originally Posted by Jets Things

Pretty funny; coming from SATAN himself.

Hey the Lord of Darkness lives in SATAN Moriches!

[DDNYjets]

We need an average QB and an average pass rusher. That is what has killed us.

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by SAR I

The Jets had a lead on the Patriots in New England with 90 seconds left on the clock. The defense blew the game.

See, it's funny what people remember.

I remember Sanchez fumbling the game away in overtime with yet another Sanchez turnover, to go with his earlier fumble-into-Safety (+2 NE), and his earlier INT in FG range (-3 Jets).

I remember Sanchez getting sacked and forcing a Folk FG late, leaving the game up by 3.

Thats after a Jets O three-and-out with only 2 minutes left. One first down, one, and we kick a shorter FG and we win.

But Sanchez routinely cannot get that one first down, even vs. the Pats pretty bleh Defense.

I also remember the big Hill drop (-7). Thats on the rookie WR.



12 points, almost two TDs, of differential given up by the O.

Against the Pats thats too much to ask of your Defense on a good day.

And alot of that is directly on Sanchez, including his inabillity to get one clutch first down to win the game at the end, or to hold onto the ball in ovetime.

3 turnovers, one of whcih was a 2 pointer for NE. And you blame the Defense.

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by SAR I

We'd be at 7-5 another way WITH COMPETENT PLAY ON DEFENSE AND ST'S too:

The Jets had a lead on the Patriots in New England with 90 seconds left on the clock. The defense blew the game.

As I mentioned to you back then, MOST defenses couldn't hold against Brady in that situation. 1:37 on the clock and all Brady needs is a FG ? How often would you bet against him ? What teams would you bet could stop him even half the time ??

The Jets had the Dolphins at home, facing their backup quarterback no less. The defense blew the game.

Miami scored 17 pts in the first half, but 14 of those points were handed to them by special teams and a Sanchez fumble at our 32 yard line. Seeing as how the offense managed a whopping 9 points, that game isn't on the D.

The quarterback isn't playing well, but we are supposed to win games on our stellar defense and it's not happening. All those great coaches, all those great draft picks, that beefed up free-agent secondary, they were supposed to win games like this for us.

And let's talk special teams too. We have the best special teams coach of all time yet he let up game changing touchdowns in both of those contests.

Those two games were extremely winnable and the Jets would be sitting here at 7-5 today if those games went the way they should have on defense and special teams, two areas that have been a significant, concentration for this club. The quarterback isn't blameless, but he is not to blame.

SAR I

Dude, go back and look at the schedule and results. We are 5-7 with our current roster, including our defense. Three games were winnable EVEN WITH that defense, WR corps and group of running backs. The games against the Texans, the Pats, and the Seahawks What killed us in each game ultimately ? Mark Sanchez handing the damned ball over. Plenty of time left, down by 6 and driving to score, Mark throws an interception against the Texans. Driving to tie the game or win it with a TD in overtime against the Pats, we lose when Mark gets stupid and fumbles while trying to throw the ball away while getting sacked. Against Seattle, we were right there about to score and have the momentum, then Mark decides to hesitate, pump fake a couple times then and then throw an interception.

In all three of those games, Mark certainly didn't tear things up or do things that a mildly competent QB couldn't have done as well.

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by Warfish

Since it's so rare, I like to +1 when I can agree with you SAR.



But on this I disagree. For every chucklehead who gives a player or Coach all of two minutes to succeed or else, there are an equal number of homers who will defend a Jets poor play till the milisecond he is cut, and many who'll then pine for that mediocre player for the rest of time, often posting that players every move elsewhere.



I would almost universally agree.....but for once, I don't.

I think almost any change at QB to a middle-of-the-road talent is an instant upgrade and would bear fruit in all aspects of the teams play.

An average QB, playing average, and turning it over much less overall than Sanchez does, and we're immediately a better team.

How much better? Who knows. But better without any question in my mind.

Exactly. We'd most likely be at 7-5 and in the playoff hunt with the easiest part of our schedule coming up.

Would that same QB take us very deep into the Playoffs ? Probably not. Too many holes, most that SAR has correctly identified. But, at least we would get there.

Fill those holes but keep Sanchez as the QB ? Still not going anywhere quick.

[JoeJam Football]

Honestly our running backs have been looking alot better as the season goes on and they are doing it with opposing teams knowing that we have no passing game. I expected a little more out Joe McKnight. We do need a speed back to complement Green and Powell and that would complete a nice trio of backs. Greene has been running hard as is Powell. Throw a decent QB in there and some healthy receivers and the Jets offense has potential. Sanchez has to go. Our worst fears have come to reality - that Sanchez has derailed the Jets season. Sure he hasn't had a healthy or stable receiving crew but just look at his first pass against Arizona. Look at the red zone interceptions when we had for sure field goals. Sanchez has lost it or he never had it. This Jet team is a 10-6 team with a middle of the pack QB. Sanchez is a bad pass or a sack or an untimely interception waiting to happen. I've seen him crumble in the pocket when an opposing player reached out and touched his leg. He's got happy feet. His decision making and pocket awareness is horrid. He's done. Toast. He killed this season. Wow. Don't know why I started on Sanchez on a running back thread. But I think the Jets backs are good. Not great.

[Warfish]

Originally Posted by sec.101row23

It is possible to look at this team and say, yes Sanchez has played horribly and is not a good QB, and ALSO say that this team needs some serious talent upgrades, on both sides of the ball, to be legit playoff contender.

Absolutely, +1

But I'llcontinue to disagree with the NUMBER of upgrades required. Outside of QB, we are NOT that far off from being a playoff talent-level team. A little help here and there (specificly pass rush, LB speed, and RB) and we're qin quite good shape.

Outside of QB.

And the reason most point out the various obvious things you mention, is because we've been hearing endlessly how "it's not Sanchez's fault" we're where we are.

Sorry, but yes, yes it is. Our most vital position is filled with one of our worst players, and one of the worst payers of that position in the league right now.

[fullblast]

Originally Posted by WestCoastOffensive

Earlier in the year, when all the knee-jerk Fantasy GM's wanted to deal Shonn Greene for some magic beans, I said that our 3 backs would end up as one of the better groups by season's end.

Still waiting on that.