Sanchez: Where It All Went Wrong

[STL Jet fan]

Everyone has posted very legitimate reasons why Sanchez sucks. I believe they originate with Matt Cavanaugh. He sucks as a QB coach, plain and simple. I dont excuse Sanchez's play it has sucked too. However, how can anyone, especially Rex not see this? Someone in another thread posted Cavanaughs coaching record and his Qb's stats when he was coach,THEY WERE PATHETIC. Mark Sanchez should be held accountable for his stats, but Cavanaugh should be too.

[Conkboy]

Originally Posted by STL Jet fan

Everyone has posted very legitimate reasons why Sanchez sucks. I believe they originate with Matt Cavanaugh. He sucks as a QB coach, plain and simple. I dont excuse Sanchez's play it has sucked too. However, how can anyone, especially Rex not see this? Someone in another thread posted Cavanaughs coaching record and his Qb's stats when he was coach,THEY WERE PATHETIC. Mark Sanchez should be held accountable for his stats, but Cavanaugh should be too.

Cavanaugh is horrible... There are posters on this board who could teach Sanchez how to vary his drops on screen passes to provide a clear lane to the RB. Once fired by the Jets, I doubt he gets another look!!!

[RMJK]

Originally Posted by Conkboy

Cavanaugh is horrible... There are posters on this board who could teach Sanchez how to vary his drops on screen passes to provide a clear lane to the RB. Once fired by the Jets, I doubt he gets another look!!!

Exactly, we had no screen plays this year because of coaching. We all learn from our mistakes and learn to correct them. That feedback mechanism was absent the last few years.

[MadCroatian]

What makes this so odd is Lombardi's take on Sanchez at the draft. Because I remember this report 4 years ago:

"Earlier this year (I listen to the BS Report all the time), Lombardi said that if all of the young quarterbacks in the league (Flacco, Matt Ryan, Sanchez, Stafford, Bradford, etc.) were about to get into a car, they'd throw the keys to Mark Sanchez because of the way he leads people."

[Cleansweep2013]

Originally Posted by STL Jet fan

Everyone has posted very legitimate reasons why Sanchez sucks. I believe they originate with Matt Cavanaugh. He sucks as a QB coach, plain and simple. I dont excuse Sanchez's play it has sucked too. However, how can anyone, especially Rex not see this? Someone in another thread posted Cavanaughs coaching record and his Qb's stats when he was coach,THEY WERE PATHETIC. Mark Sanchez should be held accountable for his stats, but Cavanaugh should be too.

Its all on Mark Sanchez.. He had mark Brunell around to help him too.. He drilled with him, ect Brunell probably helped him more than Cav. Mark even would call him Coach Brunell. Brunell provided no threat to take Sanchez's job. Most teams in the NFL had a viable backup who would have replaced mark much sooner.. Mark was babied yet many still want to make excuses for his pathedic increasingly bad play.. It happens in sports, you cant explain it.. Why Ryan Leaf couldnt hack it? why did Phillip Rivers go from a top 10 qb, even top 5 to what he did last year?

Its time to cut the excuses, and just cut the garbage. This league brings in more talent every year at a rate higher than it loses talent. 3 rookies, Colin K (1st yr starting) ect. Its time the Jets take a chance on someone who may be very good.

[jpoppy7]

Originally Posted by RMJK

Exactly, we had no screen plays this year because of coaching. We all learn from our mistakes and learn to correct them. That feedback mechanism was absent the last few years.

No, we had almost no successful screen passes the past four years because Sanchez is atrocious at throwing them.

When McElroy played for a game, we had a very successful screen pass to Greene that went for 30 yards. It's not that the coaches don't want to run a screen pass, its that Sanchez is awful

[STL Jet fan]

Originally Posted by Cleansweep2013

Its all on Mark Sanchez.. He had mark Brunell around to help him too.. He drilled with him, ect Brunell probably helped him more than Cav. Mark even would call him Coach Brunell. Brunell provided no threat to take Sanchez's job. Most teams in the NFL had a viable backup who would have replaced mark much sooner.. Mark was babied yet many still want to make excuses for his pathedic increasingly bad play.. It happens in sports, you cant explain it.. Why Ryan Leaf couldnt hack it? why did Phillip Rivers go from a top 10 qb, even top 5 to what he did last year?

Its time to cut the excuses, and just cut the garbage. This league brings in more talent every year at a rate higher than it loses talent. 3 rookies, Colin K (1st yr starting) ect. Its time the Jets take a chance on someone who may be very good.

Im not saying Sanchez as no blame, Im saying NOTHING will change with Cavanaugh as QB coach. His record as a coach speaks or itsself.

[ASG0531]

Originally Posted by SAR I

Exactly.

As usual, Rex Ryan's defensive collapse is swept under the rug and the whole world focuses on one football follies play. If that play never happens, the Jets defense still gives up 42 points in a must-win game on Thanksgiving.

Based on the over-support it gets, we expect more from the defense.

Based on the lack of support it gets, we expect very little from the offense.

SAR I

The Butt Fumble was nothing more than symbolic failure. The Vereen wheel route TD and the Edelman bomb were more important because they were examples of a team just getting straight up beat.

[RMJK]

Originally Posted by Cleansweep2013

Its all on Mark Sanchez.. He had mark Brunell around to help him too.. He drilled with him, ect Brunell probably helped him more than Cav. Mark even would call him Coach Brunell. Brunell provided no threat to take Sanchez's job. Most teams in the NFL had a viable backup who would have replaced mark much sooner.. Mark was babied yet many still want to make excuses for his pathedic increasingly bad play.. It happens in sports, you cant explain it.. Why Ryan Leaf couldnt hack it? why did Phillip Rivers go from a top 10 qb, even top 5 to what he did last year?

Its time to cut the excuses, and just cut the garbage. This league brings in more talent every year at a rate higher than it loses talent. 3 rookies, Colin K (1st yr starting) ect. Its time the Jets take a chance on someone who may be very good.

He may be good somewhere else but I agree totally on a new QB who we don't break the bank on. Seems like every team but a handfull have their QB.

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by STL Jet fan

Everyone has posted very legitimate reasons why Sanchez sucks.

A car without wheels sucks.

A burger without meat sucks.

A quarterback with high-school level receivers sucks.

Not sure why there's this much conversation on the subject. It's quite obvious why Mark Sanchez took a downturn. Anyone who thought our offense looked decent coming out of Cortland needs their head examined.

SAR I

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by SAR I

A car without wheels sucks.

A burger without meat sucks.

A quarterback with high-school level receivers sucks.

Not sure why there's this much conversation on the subject. It's quite obvious why Mark Sanchez took a downturn. Anyone who thought our offense looked decent coming out of Cortland needs their head examined.

SAR I

Downturn ? That implies that Mark was actually a good QB at some point in his career. Care to point to when that was ?

[SAR I]

Conkboy I was not sure the best response of yours to quote but I have a couple of questions I hope you might answer. It is a given that Mark's regular season stats are in the bottom echelon of QBs in each of the 4 years he has played. Whether you look at QBR, QB Rating or even just completion % ,they are all well below average. So I ask you these questions:

The stats look ugly because for the first 2 years he was a rookie project and for the second 2 years he was stripped of all his playmakers, saddled with terrible offensive coordinators, crushed by a porous offensive line, hung out to dry without a running game, and abandoned by his HC and GM.

His stats might have improved markedly if he had a single receiver to bond with for all 4 years and if the running game kept up its end of the bargain. We'll never know.

1. If we had a coaching staff that could better develop Sanchez, how do you know they would not be even more successful with a guy like Moore, Campbell or Flynn?

They very well might. I'm just saying that we deserve a chance to see what Mark Sanchez looks like with an offense comparable to 2009 or 2010. Give him 3 receivers like Cotchery/Holmes/Kerley. Give him a TE that can stay healthy like Keller once did. Give him a OL that doesn't have a massive weakness like Hunter and the two guys that replaced him. Give him a running game like Greene once did. Give him a safety valve like Washington and Tomlinson once were. If after a year of that he sucks, we have our answer.

2. If we had terrfic offensive talent, how do you know that other QBs wouldn't even get more production out of them?

They very well might. On the other hand, the supremely confident Mark Sanchez that opened the season in 2011 might have grown into a Top 5 quarterback by 2013 had his GM and HC supported him the way other teams support their young QB's. Look at the weapons that Stafford has. Look at the weapons Flacco has. Look at Eli, look at RG3, look at all of them. First round QB's don't just get a single year of investment. They get multiple years.

You get your franchise QB, you give him first round WR's, you give him time to bond and get that unspoken language between himself and his two go-to guys, then you add missing pieces. All the other young QB's got their additional weaponry except one. Making it worse, his playmakers were old and single-season projects and instead of being replaced the Jets kept delaying and delaying the offensive support so that they could load up the defense and the defense sucked too. Chaos.

3. You can't blame the defense for Sanchez's stats... He has much more impact on their stats than they have on him. While the D can share responsibility for the Jets record, don't you agree they have little to no responsibility for his crappy regular season stats?

The defense sucked up every cap dollar, every decent free agent, every high draft pick, and every decent coach for the past two years. It's not what the defense does to Mark Sanchez on the field that matters; it's the fact that Rex Ryan has been so focused on his beloved defense for the past 4 years that he completely forgot his quarterback and that you need to score points to win in the NFL.

4. You think Sanchez could be salvaged with playmakers around him? That is a crapshoot or potentially very expensive to guarantee. We would not be better trying to correct one position by say a 25% improvement rather than attempt to correct 5 to 7 players by 25% plus?

You know how everyone keeps saying "If Mark Sanchez was better and cut his turnovers in half we'd have 11 wins"? They're right. So let's do just that. Let's take the guy who already showed flashes of brilliance, who is already playoff-proven, who has already withstood the NY pressure-cooker, and give him what we took away from him for the past two years and find out.

We can have a good season next year if Mark Sanchez is resurrected. Keeping Rex doesn't do anything for us. We need to overload the offense the way we've overloaded the defense for the past 4 years. Take our franchise quarterback and give him what he needs to be successful. We've drafted a dozen DE's and LB's trying to get a pass rush. We've ignored the QB.

SAR I

[Cleansweep2013]

Originally Posted by STL Jet fan

Im not saying Sanchez as no blame, Im saying NOTHING will change with Cavanaugh as QB coach. His record as a coach speaks or itsself.

Im not defending Cav. You have to ask Why do you think they kept this guy around all these years? Mark had to prefer him.. He isnt a nephew or anyone special to Rex,ect. Management would have known if mark did not like him and he would have been quickly removed..Especially after shotty's exit. Again the team always did what mark was comfortable with, (except bringing in tebow) Lets not forget, although mark only started 1 year for the trojans, he was coached for 3 years by pro-type style O. Should have came into the league not needed to be taught like a pee-wee. I dont think Russel Wilson,luck,RG3 have had such muh success as rookies because of their qb coach.

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by RMJK

Exactly, we had no screen plays this year because of coaching. We all learn from our mistakes and learn to correct them. That feedback mechanism was absent the last few years.

Yeah, this is what is so ridiculous it is just laughable.

The Jets go into 2012 knowing that the offense is going to be a challenge. They see that the QB had a bad year and was rattled by a weak OL. They see that they've got very few playmakers. They see that the running game is terribly slow and ineffective.

So they design an offense without a dump-off swing back and without a screen pass in the playbook.

It's a joke. Pop Warner quarterbacks get their dump-off lifeboats, but not the quarterback of the New York Jets under a coaching staff that knew full well that it would likely be their best play on every drive. Madness.

SAR I

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by ASG0531

The Butt Fumble was nothing more than symbolic failure. The Vereen wheel route TD and the Edelman bomb were more important because they were examples of a team just getting straight up beat.

Not a single Jets fan on the planet expected Mark Sanchez to fall to pieces ad we headed into opening day 2011 as Super Bowl favorites.

The kid didn't change. His playmakers did.

SAR I

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

Downturn ? That implies that Mark was actually a good QB at some point in his career. Care to point to when that was ?

The Jets went 16-4 after Mark Sanchez shook off his rookie jitters, even won 4 games that the defense almost blew in dramatic 4th quarter fashion. Not to mention that after winning 16 games in 20 tries Mark Sanchez walked into Pittsburgh in November and beat the Steelers before winning another 2 playoff games and outplaying Peyton Manning and Tom Brady in the process.

You should have watched the games. You would have liked them, maybe learned something.

SAR I

[Demosthenes9]

Originally Posted by SAR I

The Jets went 16-4 after Mark Sanchez shook off his rookie jitters, even won 4 games that the defense almost blew in dramatic 4th quarter fashion. Not to mention that after winning 16 games in 20 tries Mark Sanchez walked into Pittsburgh in November and beat the Steelers before winning another 2 playoff games and outplaying Peyton Manning and Tom Brady in the process.

You should have watched the games. You would have liked them, maybe learned something.

SAR I

I could almost swear that the graphic says New York Jets, not Mark Sanchez.

Oh yeah, Mark outplayed Peyton Manning huh ? Let's see. Peyton's stat line reads 18/26 for 225 yds, 1 TD, 0 INTs and a QB rating of 108.7, Sanchez's reads 18/31 for 189 yds, 0 TDs, 1 INT and a QB rating of 62.4.

Yeah, Mark really outplayed Peyton Manning there.

Think that victory might have had something to do with 169 yards rushing by LT, Greene and company and their 2 TDs ??

Not good to confuse/conflate the Jets winning football games as proof that Mark was a good QB.

[SAR I]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

I could almost swear that the graphic says New York Jets, not Mark Sanchez.

Oh yeah, Mark outplayed Peyton Manning huh ? Let's see. Peyton's stat line reads 18/26 for 225 yds, 1 TD, 0 INTs and a QB rating of 108.7, Sanchez's reads 18/31 for 189 yds, 0 TDs, 1 INT and a QB rating of 62.4.

Yeah, Mark really outplayed Peyton Manning there.

Think that victory might have had something to do with 169 yards rushing by LT, Greene and company and their 2 TDs ??

Not good to confuse/conflate the Jets winning football games as proof that Mark was a good QB.

If Mark Sanchez doesn't complete key passes on a last-minute drive at Indianapolis, the New York Jets don't send Peyton Manning's last game as a Colt into the record books and they don't go into Foxboro and beat the Patriots either.

Mark Sanchez was not drafted to be the next Dan Marino. He was drafted out of desperation because we didn't have a QB on the roster after Favre left and it was a brutal free agent class. We picked the best QB available, jumped up to take him, he was 23, a college junior. His job was to not screw it up for the defense and the running game. The Jets said so themselves. The Jets drafted to that strategy as well.

What he did in his first two seasons was remarkable. We all thought so. In fact, go find your posts from August 2011 showing how you felt about Mark Sanchez going into that season. Things looked good until Burress showed his age, Tomlinson and Keller got hurt, and the defense let the lame Eagles and Giants run and throw all over us.

And the 2012 season was just an offensive disaster. Perfectly healthy they couldn't score a preseason TD, losing Holmes and Keller and Hill made a bad situation worse. And you wonder why Mark Sanchez looked like crap? Please.

If the defense and the running game did their jobs in 2012 then Mark Sanchez wouldn't have been asked to throw the ball 30-40 times a game to bail them out. Fewer turnovers, less blame. He's a scapegoat for the utter fail of a defense and running attack and special teams that Rex Ryan put on the field. It's shameful.

SAR I

[McGinley]

Madre de Dios. SAR vs. Demos.

[McGinley]

Originally Posted by Demosthenes9

I could almost swear that the graphic says New York Jets, not Mark Sanchez.

Oh yeah, Mark outplayed Peyton Manning huh ? Let's see. Peyton's stat line reads 18/26 for 225 yds, 1 TD, 0 INTs and a QB rating of 108.7, Sanchez's reads 18/31 for 189 yds, 0 TDs, 1 INT and a QB rating of 62.4.

Yeah, Mark really outplayed Peyton Manning there.

Think that victory might have had something to do with 169 yards rushing by LT, Greene and company and their 2 TDs ??

Not good to confuse/conflate the Jets winning football games as proof that Mark was a good QB.

That's a bit hypocritical seeing as you Tebow fans do that all the time.