Ground & Pound, one thing I want from the new NY Jets is...

[Ven0m]

Originally Posted by Traitor Jay & the Woodies

It's not a misconception. It is everything he has ever said, repeatedly, for 4 years.

THAT said, he is a habitual liar, so maybe you are right.

Yeah, and in 2011 all the public comments were that was going to be the year that we finally opened up the passing game and had this high flying offense (Something you wouldn't do if you were truly set on Ground and Pound being the best formula)

And how well did that work? By 2012 Schotty was fired and Tony Sparano was coming in to bring back the Ground and Pound.

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

Football has not change . You throw to get the lead and u run to win the game.

Football has absolutely changed with the pass interference, defensive holding and protecting the QB/WR rules.

I honestly think Ground and Pound is nothing more then an example of the NY Media taking a "Rex Catch Phrase" and running with it.

The whole ground and pound thing is centered on what....running the ball and playing good defense, what team doesnt want to do that? This has been exacerbated by the fact that we cant throw it at all, that is the real problem.

We threw the ball 493 times this year and ran it 494 times (although I believe that includes scrambles. Those numbers dont indicate that we are running all that much, although Id guess the league average is not 50-50.

Overall we need to throw the ball more accurately and still have a good running game.

[Tinstar]

Originally Posted by jetswin

Chad Pennington was a rare player ruined by injury, the fact that he was such polarizing a player here at JI means he will never get his due. That being said Paul Hacker sucked worse than Shotty imho, I never want to see a coach like that again.

"it's ok we'll just kick." - Paul Hacker

"no thanks." - jetswin

What Paul Hackett did was coached to the strength of his starting QB. It didn't sit well with Jet fans,but i was masterfull. Why force a QB with suspect arm strength to consistantly throw the ball into coverage on 3rd and long just to apease the fan base. He took shots at opportune times,and for the most part they worked.

[jetswin]

go get him and make it happen

[Tinstar]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

Football has absolutely changed with the pass interference, defensive holding and protecting the QB/WR rules.

I honestly think Ground and Pound is nothing more then an example of the NY Media taking a "Rex Catch Phrase" and running with it.

The whole ground and pound thing is centered on what....running the ball and playing good defense, what team doesnt want to do that? This has been exacerbated by the fact that we cant throw it at all, that is the real problem.

We threw the ball 493 times this year and ran it 494 times (although I believe that includes scrambles. Those numbers dont indicate that we are running all that much, although Id guess the league average is not 50-50.

Overall we need to throw the ball more accurately and still have a good running game.

Tell me again how football has changed. It has always been about a balanced attack. You throw to get the lead and run to win the game. If you don't block well and tackle well, u lose.

[Savage69]

Originally Posted by jetswin

Chad Pennington was a rare player ruined by injury, the fact that he was such polarizing a player here at JI means he will never get his due. That being said Paul Hacker sucked worse than Shotty imho, I never want to see a coach like that again.

"it's ok we'll just kick." - Paul Hacker

"no thanks." - jetswin

Cumar will kick your butt if you said that in front of him..

[Mainejet]

Originally Posted by jetswin

...to leave this in the dust

Anyone who watched yesterday's awful playoff games can plainly see that in today's NFL you have to throw the ball. Look at Minnesota owner's an all world RB who ran extremely well and a QB that has no right being in the league (where were the stats and talk of his horrendous play last night, if that had been Sanchez lol).

Think back to the most successful NY Jet teams, early Namath hurling bombs, O'Brien outdueling Marino in aerial shows, Testaverde shredding D's. Sanchez led trips to Championship games were more a function of parity than good offenses imho and it's time to try another way.

If for no other reason than for the fan's, who has a ridiculously high vested interest in their team today, entertainment put this G&P nonsense to sleep, forever.

thanks for listening

They won't leave it behind. In fact, if anything, they'll be more committed to it than ever before.

Look at the team:

1) They have no QB. It's going to be a while before they can get one alsoas this years draft is pretty weak on QB talent.

2) They still have the makings of a very good OL, they just need a couple more pieces. They were a devastating run blocking OL not too long ago.

3) They need another RB, but getting decent RB is far easier than getting a QB.

They have a chance at getting Alex Smith if the team hires Tom Gamble, and that appears to be the case, but he's still only a stop gap QB. The 49ers tried everything with Smith to make him a franchise QB, but he didn't work out.

But if you put him behind a great OL and a good running game he can become a good QB.

It all points to the Jets building on the running game. Get used to it.

[AmericanMadman]

Originally Posted by jetswin

...to leave this in the dust

Anyone who watched yesterday's awful playoff games can plainly see that in today's NFL you have to throw the ball. Look at Minnesota owner's an all world RB who ran extremely well and a QB that has no right being in the league (where were the stats and talk of his horrendous play last night, if that had been Sanchez lol).

In all fairness the Vikings had to start a guy who had not thrown a pass in the regular season, because their starter was inactive. But yeah it is a passing league and ground and pound won't cut it.

[Savage69]

Originally Posted by Mainejet

They won't leave it behind. In fact, if anything, they'll be more committed to it than ever before.

Look at the team:

1) They have no QB. It's going to be a while before they can get one alsoas this years draft is pretty weak on QB talent.

Who did we have as QB's after the 1997 season?? 7th rd pick Glen Foley and 3rd pick Neil O'Donnell.. The Tuna hated O'Donnell and got rid of him and signed Vinny for the 98 camp to compete with Foley.. Foley starts gets replaced by Vinny and the rest is history.. It's to early to whine about what we have until at least camp starts or as Revis fans call it.. Holdout time..

[ASG0531]

Originally Posted by pcola

I think the Better running teams are set up by the pass. NE is on of the top running teams in the league this year. It's not because they are any elite RBs. Cincy's running game was predicated on Green, Gresham, and company threatening down the field. Yes Seattle is a run first team but they still have plenty of down field weapons. In fact, With the exception of Min, every other team in the playoffs can stretch the field offensively.

The league rules dictate a passing offense. If we want to keep giving us a disadvantage during the regular season, then let's keep our archaic 3 yards and a cloud of dust philosophy that went out in the 1970s.

The Pats have a trio of backs that they can use situationally when the defense dictates it. It's one of the biggest reasons why they have a chance this year.

Pass-oriented offenses still need backs who can get the first down when called upon. They can pound it with Ridley or use Vereen in the short passing game if need be, and use Woodhead for a gain.

[Conkboy]

Originally Posted by jetswin

I'm not basing a statement off the hack that played yesterday I'm basing it off the history of the NY Jets...passing wins in this league game managers don't win Championships, aside from Dilfer. Also I didn't say abandon the run I want a stretch the field attacking offense, today's Jets cannot come back from being down 10 points.

Phil Simms, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Ben Rothlesberger, Trent Dilfer, andBrad Johnson....

Not that these guys are all equal in talent but I don't think anyone of them could carry a team on his shoulders the way a Brees, Brady, Manning, Marino, Montana, Elway, Rogers ( to name a few) could. Those mentioned above all needed a strong running game and a great defense to win a Superbowl.

Franchise QBs are so hard to find. I agree with your sentiment that in today's NFL a game manager alone just can't cut it but you also can win a championship without a Franchise QB. You need that second tier type of QB to do so and a strong team around him. We don't have either right now. Where teams fail miserably is when they try and force the issue with a franchise QB when they are so few and far between. We had caught lightening in a bottle with Testaverde, I say have an eye towards a second tier guy with 2nd or 3rd round draft choices or via trade and don't mortgage your future by trying to fit a square peg into a round hole when no Franchise QBs are available.

[pcola]

Originally Posted by ASG0531

The Pats have a trio of backs that they can use situationally when the defense dictates it. It's one of the biggest reasons why they have a chance this year.

Pass-oriented offenses still need backs who can get the first down when called upon. They can pound it with Ridley or use Vereen in the short passing game if need be, and use Woodhead for a gain.

Put all three backs on the Jets right now, do we have the top rushing offense in the league? They are successful because Brady throw for close to 5000 yards a season.

[pcola]

I think another aspect of why we run a G & P offense is because Rex is desperately trying to have a statistically highly ranked defense EVERY year. Running the ball eats clock and limits opponents opportunities to gain yards and points.

I understand that we have to run that offense because or our personnel but we had 4 offseasons to change that. Rex would prefer to run that SH!T offense out there week in and week out because that gives him the best chance to have a top 5 defense.

Teams that play us don't have to be aggressive offensively because they know we will turn the ball over and that we had a hard time scoring double digit points in several games this year.

End result, team sucks but its not Rex's fault because he is a defensive genius. We need him blah blah blah.

Great coaches don't give a crap about rankings. Rex always seems to brag about them.

[ASG0531]

Originally Posted by pcola

Put all three backs on the Jets right now, do we have the top rushing offense in the league? They are successful because Brady throw for close to 5000 yards a season.

Of course, I just meant they are essential right now to the Patriots' offensive scheme. You're the one saying only passing offenses win these days, but the Pats are utilizing a number of different weapons on the ground to help win these days (which Brady's presence helps, of course). Nothing to do with the Jets. They led the league with 25 rushing TDs by a decent margin, that means they diversified their offensive approach. Contrast that with the Saints who scored 43 Brees TDs and only 10 on the ground. And yet the Pats had a more prolific offense. So Brady either sucks in the redzone or they are pretty efficient at play-calling there.

[pcola]

Originally Posted by Conkboy

Phil Simms, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Ben Rothlesberger, Trent Dilfer, andBrad Johnson.....

And how many of these QBs have won anything this decade? The rapist has won two and aside from the first one where he was terrible, he led a pass happy offense the second time with a ton of receivers.

[Untouchable]

We need a QB before we can leave "ground and pound" in the dust.

Draft Mike Glennon

I don't care if it's a slight reach in Round 1.

If the kid pans out, no one will give a sh*t where we drafted him.

[pcola]

Originally Posted by ASG0531

Of course, I just meant they are essential right now to the Patriots' offensive scheme. You're the one saying only passing offenses win these days, but the Pats are utilizing a number of different weapons on the ground to help win these days (which Brady's presence helps, of course). Nothing to do with the Jets.

Good points. I just think we have ignored the offense for too long. 2 years ago I would say that Sanchez was salvageable but after the last two years, they have ruined him. Knowing you have to throw the ball in this day and age and they treat offensive skill positions worse than they did back up defenders in terms of priorities.

[Tinstar]

Originally Posted by pcola

Put all three backs on the Jets right now, do we have the top rushing offense in the league? They are successful because Brady throw for close to 5000 yards a season.

And the reason Brady is allowed to do that is his OL gives him time to scan the field and he's smart enough to know where to throw the football.

[sameoldjets]

this whole ground and pound discussion is pretty nonsensical. it's as if people think the jets somehow only want to run the ball. the simple fact is that all successful teams are capable of running the ball and they are also capable of passing the ball. it all a matter of what type of style is used and when. tkae the patsies. they will use the pass to move the chains and be more effective than is they run the ball during the early game stages. if they get out into the lead they use the run to use up time and hold their lead. but let's not confuse the patsies with teams that had real deep threat ability like the marino doltfins. marino used to go deep and was successful at it too many times to make it a fluke. the patsies, at least of the post moss era, do not go deep that ofeten or at least aren't as successful. but they do use the pass to move the chains, take time off the clock and scores points.

the problem with the jets is that they aren't good enough to do either consistently or successfully. sanchez doesn't make good decisions in the passing game and the rb's have a hard time breaking into the secondary. ground and pound is perfectly suited to the jets and rex's coaching philosophy because he uses it as more of how he wants the team's state of mind as opposed to what type of offensive bias the team will have.

[Charlie Brown]

Originally Posted by Ven0m

I think its a misconception that Rex truly wants Ground and Pound.

Rex is forced into having Ground and Pound because of our deficiencies at the QB position. They constantly tried to force more and more responsibilities on Sanchez and he failed every time, which is why they had to keep going back to the Ground and Pound.

I think if it was up to Rex he would prefer a real balanced attack, problem is we need a QB capable of doing that.

Ummm I disagree. When Schotty opened up the offense and Sanchez was having reasonably expected adjusting pains. Remember he wa throwing the ball for almost 300 yards and was near the tops in TDs when Rex pulled the plug. And the results Are what you have.

Rex has to be willing to take some positive mistakes from his NEXT QB.
Note I said next QB because Rex's insane 1950's game plan has a low probability of success and plenty of us out here said that before we got poor offensive players. We were told "why do we have to win the way everyone else does."

Hmmmmmm now that we have a horribly looking team and a fired GM can we admit that Rex's approach is not the one most favored to get the Jets a SB.