A Thought I Had Not Considered....

Jet Fumes · 01-13-2013, 07:48 AM

There is a Newsday article about the GM search that postulated an idea I had not considered.

The Jets need what? A talent specialist or a numbers specialist? They have interviewed BOTH. Their cap situation is supposedly bad, tho I don't agree. Their talent assessment seems suspect, and I do agree with that.

Is the headhunter recommending two types of different guys because Woody keeps waffling? Or is he sending two types of guys because the JETS NEED TWO TYPES OF GUYS?

The article suggests in one brief sentence that they need both types and could hire both types. One two find talent. One to get the talent under contract. It appears as if many teams have two guys. Khan def is not the talent evaluator in Pitt.

The idea of having a guy for each job makes a lot of sense.
Sometimes the easiest conclusion is difficult to see.
They interviewed both types cause they need both types.

Does anyone not believe that Woody would hire both a General Manager to pick talent and a team president or Asst General Manager or whatever to cut contracts?

Thoughts......?

Jet Fumes · 01-13-2013, 07:49 AM

http://www.newsday.com/sports/footba...lems-1.4440461

CTJetsFanII · 01-13-2013, 11:12 AM

I had the same thought. Based on the volume of interviews and the variety of skill sets, I wouldn't be shocked. Might actually make sense.

ARodFLKeysJetsFan · 01-13-2013, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Fumes

There is a Newsday article about the GM search that postulated an idea I had not considered.

The Jets need what? A talent specialist or a numbers specialist? They have interviewed BOTH. Their cap situation is supposedly bad, tho I don't agree. Their talent assessment seems suspect, and I do agree with that.

Is the headhunter recommending two types of different guys because Woody keeps waffling? Or is he sending two types of guys because the JETS NEED TWO TYPES OF GUYS?

The article suggests in one brief sentence that they need both types and could hire both types. One two find talent. One to get the talent under contract. It appears as if many teams have two guys. Khan def is not the talent evaluator in Pitt.

The idea of having a guy for each job makes a lot of sense.
Sometimes the easiest conclusion is difficult to see.
They interviewed both types cause they need both types.

Does anyone not believe that Woody would hire both a General Manager to pick talent and a team president or Asst General Manager or whatever to cut contracts?

Thoughts......?

Pretty interesting conclusion and it makes sense but wouldn't that put Scott Cohen out on a cliff if he does not get one of these two positions?

Charlie Brown · 01-13-2013, 11:27 AM

This why I have said for years that the Jets don't have a plan.

See the organization has to set its mission statement and vision from the top and from there they decide on how to implement that strategy.

The person who is incharge of implemenation should be the GM.

Then an organizational President or owner then provides the GM the guardrails around which the GM should stay in.

IMO Tanny probably and honestly would make an outstanding team President. I mean he could end up being the best team President in the entire NFL he does have that kind of ability. As a GM he was not the best though hardly the worst, he has talent but maybe it is best applied in another area. I myself would have kept him in the organization. The Jets are constantly training others and not reaping from the training they have provided.

An organization's greatest concern has to be puttting people in areas where they have their best strengths. Frankly, you can have a good person in the wrong position and make that person look awful when and if they were put into the correct position they would be fantastic.

The thing I am happy to see is that the Jets are seemingly putting effort into these fundemental issues that actually do help determine success on and off the field.

Good for them......

Jet Fumes · 01-13-2013, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARodFLKeysJetsFan

Pretty interesting conclusion and it makes sense but wouldn't that put Scott Cohen out on a cliff if he does not get one of these two positions?

Maybe, but so what?

He doesn't get promoted and he doesn't get fired. He remains the guy in charge of locating talent within the league, and he continues whatever functions he completes so the new GM can focus on finding college talent or whatever.

Was there any word any where that Cohen wanted out or would leave if not promoted? I hadn't heard it. So he continues doing his job knowing he does not have final say. When Tannenbaum lands another job maybe he calls Cohen to join him. He would have a new boss is all.

Thanks for your excellent interview but we wish to have you continue your current responsibilities. If he quits, well bye then.

Jet Fumes · 01-13-2013, 09:55 PM

At the risk of sounding stereotypical, we all know there is a certain group of people that tend to be really good at working and manipulating numbers. Tannenbaum, assuming my stereotype to be correct, belongs to that group as does Cohen I believe. Please know that if my view is offensive it is in no way shape or form intended to belittle or downgrade anyone. The best accountants typically belong to that same group. Not an absolute, but we all know it has some accuracy to it.

Keep Cohen. Make him the numbers guy. Hire Sundquist or Angelo or Gamble or Popp or whomever to be the GM.

If Cohen isn't down for that, pay Kahn or Idzik to be the team president and put one of them in charge of the money. Parcells had a numbers guy. His name was Tannenbaum. Steelers numbers guy is Kahn. Idzik is Seattles. Franchises apparently often have two dudes.

Seems like we had two numbers dudes and no talent dudes.

Darth Vader · 01-13-2013, 09:55 PM

that would extremely inefficient

C Mart · 01-13-2013, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Fumes

At the risk of sounding stereotypical, we all know there is a certain group of people that tend to be really good at working and manipulating numbers. Tannenbaum, assuming my stereotype to be correct, belongs to that group as does Cohen I believe. Please know that if my view is offensive it is in no way shape or form intended to belittle or downgrade anyone. The best accountants typically belong to that same group. Not an absolute, but we all know it has some accuracy to it.

Keep Cohen. Make him the numbers guy. Hire Sundquist or Angelo or Gamble or Popp or whomever to be the GM.

If Cohen isn't down for that, pay Kahn or Idzik to be the team president and put one of them in charge of the money. Parcells had a numbers guy. His name was Tannenbaum. Steelers numbers guy is Kahn. Idzik is Seattles. Franchises apparently often have two dudes.

Seems like we had two numbers dudes and no talent dudes.

Based in his bio Cohen isn't a numbers guy. He's a personnel/scout/talent evaluator guy. Ari Nissim is the current Jets cap/contract guy.

pcola · 01-13-2013, 10:22 PM

Here is why that doesn't make any sense. An attorney can negotiate contracts and an accountant can prepare reports that would make the salary cap understandable even for "football smart" scouts/executives.

Tanny was the attorney/CPA. He didn't have the scouting background yet he had final say over all of our picks/free agents/roster cuts.

So when you have a GM with that type of background, you have to rely heavily on the scouting department and HC. The problem was that the HC sucks at evaluating players, and he had more influence over Tanny than ex-GM Bradway.

Tanny was not fired because of the cap hell we have right now, (although that is the primary reason he should have been fired) he was fired because the team has no depth.

If Khan is the new GM, he will either have to rely on the same people Tanny relied on, or bring in his own personnel experts.

If its a candidate with a history of success as a personnel director, etc. than all he has to do is find an attorney/CPA for the contracts and cap.

I'm here to say it is more difficult to find someone with a scouting/personnel background.

Tinstar · 01-13-2013, 10:45 PM

Any plan that includes Rex Ryan as HC is not a plan for success but Failure. The Jets is the only franchise in history to promote incompetence. How else can u explain Rex Ryan having any say in any part of the team that doesn't involve defensive coaching ?

Frank Bongi · 01-14-2013, 12:36 AM

The thing that gets me is that this team is looking at coordinators and other staff without a GM in place. Tell me if I'm wrong, but don't some if not all of those decisions come from thr GM. The Jets are making this whole situation and promoting the GM position to be one of a puppet. Logically we are doing things backwards, staff then GM ????

patman · 01-14-2013, 05:47 AM

In the vast majority of cases the HC picks his own staff. Exceptions are made for a Rookie where the GM wants to keep experienced people surrounding him.

These are guys that need to work together, You can't have the OC going to the GM to usurp the HC.

Jet Fumes · 01-14-2013, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C Mart

Based in his bio Cohen isn't a numbers guy. He's a personnel/scout/talent evaluator guy. Ari Nissim is the current Jets cap/contract guy.

So then.... Tannenbaum was axed and the assistant gm/talent evaluator might be getting promoted? I thought the issue w the team was a talent issue? Seems to me that if this guys specialty was talent and the team has none either a) he was vetoed by Tannenbaum on some talent decisions which of course is the gm's right or b) he sucks at evaluating talent.

I read a Bleecher article a while back that suggested the jets promote Cohen who would in turn axe Rex and bring in Chucky from MNF to be the head coach. Chucky would bring Jay, and whoever all else his cronies are. Could it be we aren't giving Cohen a fair shake?

Do we already have an accomplished talent evaluator? Sure would be nice to know who's idea Gholston was.

Jet Fumes · 01-14-2013, 07:34 AM

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...be-done-part-1

My bad doesn't mention Jay Gruden

pcola · 01-14-2013, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Bongi

The thing that gets me is that this team is looking at coordinators and other staff without a GM in place. Tell me if I'm wrong, but don't some if not all of those decisions come from thr GM. The Jets are making this whole situation and promoting the GM position to be one of a puppet. Logically we are doing things backwards, staff then GM ????

The main difference between being hired by the NEW GM and the HC is job security. If the new GM hires you, there is a chance you survive the bloodletting next January. If Rex brings you in and he gets fired, you are going to be looking for a job with him.

C Mart · 01-14-2013, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Fumes

So then.... Tannenbaum was axed and the assistant gm/talent evaluator might be getting promoted? I thought the issue w the team was a talent issue? Seems to me that if this guys specialty was talent and the team has none either a) he was vetoed by Tannenbaum on some talent decisions which of course is the gm's right or b) he sucks at evaluating talent.

I read a Bleecher article a while back that suggested the jets promote Cohen who would in turn axe Rex and bring in Chucky from MNF to be the head coach. Chucky would bring Jay, and whoever all else his cronies are. Could it be we aren't giving Cohen a fair shake?

Do we already have an accomplished talent evaluator? Sure would be nice to know who's idea Gholston was.

Or the scouts/personnel guys were overruled by Tanny and Rex, mainly Rex, which has been reported. And/Or Rex and his staff are bad at developing talent and bad at knowing how to use the talent they do have.

Jet Fumes · 01-14-2013, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C Mart

Or the scouts/personnel guys were overruled by Tanny and Rex, mainly Rex, which has been reported. And/Or Rex and his staff are bad at developing talent and bad at knowing how to use the talent they do have.

Agreed

Woody needs clarity then. It wont matter who comes in if the staff sucks, or if Rex sends players to the pine.

Dirtstar · 01-14-2013, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jet Fumes

There is a Newsday article about the GM search that postulated an idea I had not considered.

The Jets need what? A talent specialist or a numbers specialist? They have interviewed BOTH. Their cap situation is supposedly bad, tho I don't agree. Their talent assessment seems suspect, and I do agree with that.

Is the headhunter recommending two types of different guys because Woody keeps waffling? Or is he sending two types of guys because the JETS NEED TWO TYPES OF GUYS?

The article suggests in one brief sentence that they need both types and could hire both types. One two find talent. One to get the talent under contract. It appears as if many teams have two guys. Khan def is not the talent evaluator in Pitt.

The idea of having a guy for each job makes a lot of sense.
Sometimes the easiest conclusion is difficult to see.
They interviewed both types cause they need both types.

Does anyone not believe that Woody would hire both a General Manager to pick talent and a team president or Asst General Manager or whatever to cut contracts?

Thoughts......?

I think you're on the right track.

Gamble's name has disappeared from the airwaves, not just on Jets-related matters but in general. maybe he already has a deal in place and they're waiting to complement him with a numbers guy?

just a thought, but I think your post makes a lot of sense.

petejet · 01-14-2013, 10:05 AM

Major brain freeze - who was the GM during the Parcell's era? That's when Tanny was brought in as the cap/contract guy. Similar situation.

01-13-2013, 07:48 AM	#1
Jet Fumes relaxin All League Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,743	A Thought I Had Not Considered.... There is a Newsday article about the GM search that postulated an idea I had not considered. The Jets need what? A talent specialist or a numbers specialist? They have interviewed BOTH. Their cap situation is supposedly bad, tho I don't agree. Their talent assessment seems suspect, and I do agree with that. Is the headhunter recommending two types of different guys because Woody keeps waffling? Or is he sending two types of guys because the JETS NEED TWO TYPES OF GUYS? The article suggests in one brief sentence that they need both types and could hire both types. One two find talent. One to get the talent under contract. It appears as if many teams have two guys. Khan def is not the talent evaluator in Pitt. The idea of having a guy for each job makes a lot of sense. Sometimes the easiest conclusion is difficult to see. They interviewed both types cause they need both types. Does anyone not believe that Woody would hire both a General Manager to pick talent and a team president or Asst General Manager or whatever to cut contracts? Thoughts......?

01-13-2013, 07:49 AM	#2
Jet Fumes relaxin All League Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,743	http://www.newsday.com/sports/footba...lems-1.4440461

01-13-2013, 11:12 AM	#3
CTJetsFanII Rookie Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 524	I had the same thought. Based on the volume of interviews and the variety of skill sets, I wouldn't be shocked. Might actually make sense.

01-13-2013, 11:27 AM	#5
Charlie Brown Please Pray for the Safety of Everyone!!! Jets Insider VIP Join Date: May 1999 Location: New York City Posts: 5,508	This why I have said for years that the Jets don't have a plan. See the organization has to set its mission statement and vision from the top and from there they decide on how to implement that strategy. The person who is incharge of implemenation should be the GM. Then an organizational President or owner then provides the GM the guardrails around which the GM should stay in. IMO Tanny probably and honestly would make an outstanding team President. I mean he could end up being the best team President in the entire NFL he does have that kind of ability. As a GM he was not the best though hardly the worst, he has talent but maybe it is best applied in another area. I myself would have kept him in the organization. The Jets are constantly training others and not reaping from the training they have provided. An organization's greatest concern has to be puttting people in areas where they have their best strengths. Frankly, you can have a good person in the wrong position and make that person look awful when and if they were put into the correct position they would be fantastic. The thing I am happy to see is that the Jets are seemingly putting effort into these fundemental issues that actually do help determine success on and off the field. Good for them......

01-13-2013, 09:55 PM	#7
Jet Fumes relaxin All League Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,743	At the risk of sounding stereotypical, we all know there is a certain group of people that tend to be really good at working and manipulating numbers. Tannenbaum, assuming my stereotype to be correct, belongs to that group as does Cohen I believe. Please know that if my view is offensive it is in no way shape or form intended to belittle or downgrade anyone. The best accountants typically belong to that same group. Not an absolute, but we all know it has some accuracy to it. Keep Cohen. Make him the numbers guy. Hire Sundquist or Angelo or Gamble or Popp or whomever to be the GM. If Cohen isn't down for that, pay Kahn or Idzik to be the team president and put one of them in charge of the money. Parcells had a numbers guy. His name was Tannenbaum. Steelers numbers guy is Kahn. Idzik is Seattles. Franchises apparently often have two dudes. Seems like we had two numbers dudes and no talent dudes.

01-13-2013, 09:55 PM	#8
Darth Vader Hall Of Fame Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 11,872	that would extremely inefficient

01-13-2013, 10:22 PM	#10
pcola All League Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pensacola, FL Posts: 2,838	Here is why that doesn't make any sense. An attorney can negotiate contracts and an accountant can prepare reports that would make the salary cap understandable even for "football smart" scouts/executives. Tanny was the attorney/CPA. He didn't have the scouting background yet he had final say over all of our picks/free agents/roster cuts. So when you have a GM with that type of background, you have to rely heavily on the scouting department and HC. The problem was that the HC sucks at evaluating players, and he had more influence over Tanny than ex-GM Bradway. Tanny was not fired because of the cap hell we have right now, (although that is the primary reason he should have been fired) he was fired because the team has no depth. If Khan is the new GM, he will either have to rely on the same people Tanny relied on, or bring in his own personnel experts. If its a candidate with a history of success as a personnel director, etc. than all he has to do is find an attorney/CPA for the contracts and cap. I'm here to say it is more difficult to find someone with a scouting/personnel background.

01-13-2013, 10:45 PM	#11
Tinstar Saved,and Thankfull All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Delaware Posts: 5,444	Any plan that includes Rex Ryan as HC is not a plan for success but Failure. The Jets is the only franchise in history to promote incompetence. How else can u explain Rex Ryan having any say in any part of the team that doesn't involve defensive coaching ?

01-14-2013, 12:36 AM	#12
Frank Bongi still saying WTF !!!!!! Rookie Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Forestville, NY Posts: 963	The thing that gets me is that this team is looking at coordinators and other staff without a GM in place. Tell me if I'm wrong, but don't some if not all of those decisions come from thr GM. The Jets are making this whole situation and promoting the GM position to be one of a puppet. Logically we are doing things backwards, staff then GM ????

01-14-2013, 05:47 AM	#13
patman happy to be here All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 7,152	In the vast majority of cases the HC picks his own staff. Exceptions are made for a Rookie where the GM wants to keep experienced people surrounding him. These are guys that need to work together, You can't have the OC going to the GM to usurp the HC.

01-14-2013, 07:34 AM	#15
Jet Fumes relaxin All League Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,743	http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...be-done-part-1 My bad doesn't mention Jay Gruden

01-14-2013, 10:05 AM	#20
petejet Board Moderator Jets Insider VIP Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Huntington, NY Posts: 8,217	Major brain freeze - who was the GM during the Parcell's era? That's when Tanny was brought in as the cap/contract guy. Similar situation.