Capologist vs. Personnel Guy

[Vinny Testaverde's Niece]

Everyone - media and many fans - jumped to the assumption that the Jets needed to and would hire a 'personnel guy' rather than 'another' capologist like Tanny. The Jets roster last year was awful so the thought was a better personnel guy was needed at GM to fix the problem.

But even though Tanny was supposedly a 'capologist', the cap situation is a much bigger mess to untangle than the roster per se. Tanny was bad at evaluating personnel, but he was even worse at what his supposed strength was and he left the cap situation in a horrible mess.

It's arguable that ability to manage contracts and the cap is even more important than the ability to evaluate personnel. If the Jets had selected someone who (supposedly) excels at personnel - and how do you even know how someone is good at that - how would they get out of their current situation? There are probably a lot of good personnel evaluators out there who wouldn't make a good GM, but a GM can rely on. A good GM has to manage the roster financially, keep it stocked with depth within the financial constraints. I think that was the model that the Tanny regime was built on - a capologist who would rely on personnel scouts. Only he wasn't good at either - he rejected good personnel suggestions and was awful, just hideous, at contracts. Which doesn't mean that the Jets should boomerang to a personnel expert at the expense of a good capologist. And, Idzik seems to better ("by far" LOL) at both than Tanny ever was.

[SAR I]

Being picked last for dodge ball is bad enough, acting like they saved the best for last is pretty silly, hon.

SAR I

[fidelioion]

I agree with the OP.

Look at Tanny -

was the bad Holmes deal bad talent evaluation or a bad contract? I would say bad contract...

was the bad Sanchez deal, bad talent evaluation or a bad contract? I would say bad contract?

Harris's deal?

I realize you could like it either way, but the point she's making is you need to adept at both. Idzik does seem like he has both...

[Vinny Testaverde's Niece]

Originally Posted by fidelioion

I agree with the OP.

Look at Tanny -

was the bad Holmes deal bad talent evaluation or a bad contract? I would say bad contract...

was the bad Sanchez deal, bad talent evaluation or a bad contract? I would say bad contract?

Harris's deal?

I realize you could like it either way, but the point she's making is you need to adept at both. Idzik does seem like he has both...

What if they picked someone who was supposedly a talent 'expert' (and how do you really know who is)? How would they ever drag themselves out of their cap hell?

[doggin94it]

Originally Posted by fidelioion

I agree with the OP.

Look at Tanny -

was the bad Holmes deal bad talent evaluation or a bad contract? I would say bad contract...

was the bad Sanchez deal, bad talent evaluation or a bad contract? I would say bad contract?

Harris's deal?

I realize you could like it either way, but the point she's making is you need to adept at both. Idzik does seem like he has both...

You'd be wrong. As Jason over at Jetscap has pointed out, the Jets' contracts (with the exception of Sanchez) have been structured to allow the team maximum flexibility and actually leave the team in relatively good cap shape overall.

[Beerfish]

It simply doesn't matter if a cap guy or personnel guy is in charge if they surround themselves with good people and have a quality plan in place. If you are a cap guy, trust your scouts and create a good plan then you can succeed. Tanny wasn't a fail because of being a cap guy he was a fail because he didn't value later round picks, did not take them seriously, went the trade up route too often and let the coach have too much say in things.

[Jason423]

Originally Posted by doggin94it

You'd be wrong. As Jason over at Jetscap has pointed out, the Jets' contracts (with the exception of Sanchez) have been structured to allow the team maximum flexibility and actually leave the team in relatively good cap shape overall.

Yup. Even the Sanchez deal was completely awful(though it was bad), it was just unnecessary. The reason everyone points to the deals being bad is because the players have looked so bad on the field. Thats a personnel issue. Thats guys thinking Rex turned around Santonio Holmes when the second he got paid he was busy drinking on covers of newspapers and not really caring about anything except getting on Sportscenter. Thats what the Jets have failed to see with their players. Harris is a bad contract as well in terms of what he was paid, but not impossible to deal with.

Its really why to a guy like Idzik who comes from an organization that makes Trader Mike look like Standstill Mike the cap is a non-issue. Look if the Jets had prorated all the money at the frontend of the deals like most teams nobody would even notice about the cap numbers. They could still do it now if they wanted to and then go on a spending spree.

[chirorob]

Originally Posted by Jason423

Yup. Even the Sanchez deal was completely awful(though it was bad), it was just unnecessary. The reason everyone points to the deals being bad is because the players have looked so bad on the field. Thats a personnel issue. Thats guys thinking Rex turned around Santonio Holmes when the second he got paid he was busy drinking on covers of newspapers and not really caring about anything except getting on Sportscenter. Thats what the Jets have failed to see with their players. Harris is a bad contract as well in terms of what he was paid, but not impossible to deal with.

Its really why to a guy like Idzik who comes from an organization that makes Trader Mike look like Standstill Mike the cap is a non-issue. Look if the Jets had prorated all the money at the frontend of the deals like most teams nobody would even notice about the cap numbers. They could still do it now if they wanted to and then go on a spending spree.

I tried to click on your Holmes link, but it won't come up.

It seems like our good players are being paid elite player money. Meanwhile, the talent level on the field has decreased a lot over the last 2 years.

[TebowCan'tThrow]

Bottom line is Tanny was an arrogant GM who liked to wheel and deal just for headlines. He got caught up in such great deals like a 5th for Holmes which seemed like a steal, but he didn't pay attention that a great organization was happy to see him go. Then he let go Edwards who wanted to be here. They signed Favre. Tebow...The list goes on and on. Tanny liked the spotlight. I like Idzik and am anxious to see what he can do. Tanny had never been more than a bean counter. From reports Idzik, he has scouted players before which helps and he nows how to manage cap. Some people just like to ***** and start ridiculous threads so they can make their points which usually just shows their ignorance.

[Vinny Testaverde's Niece]

Originally Posted by Jason423

Yup. Even the Sanchez deal was completely awful(though it was bad), it was just unnecessary. The reason everyone points to the deals being bad is because the players have looked so bad on the field. Thats a personnel issue. Thats guys thinking Rex turned around Santonio Holmes when the second he got paid he was busy drinking on covers of newspapers and not really caring about anything except getting on Sportscenter. Thats what the Jets have failed to see with their players. Harris is a bad contract as well in terms of what he was paid, but not impossible to deal with.

Its really why to a guy like Idzik who comes from an organization that makes Trader Mike look like Standstill Mike the cap is a non-issue. Look if the Jets had prorated all the money at the frontend of the deals like most teams nobody would even notice about the cap numbers. They could still do it now if they wanted to and then go on a spending spree.

So being 19mil (or however much) over the cap, is no biggie?

[Jason423]

Originally Posted by Vinny Testaverde's Niece

So being 19mil (or however much) over the cap, is no biggie?

In this case no. The Jets are only over because there are dead weight players (Bart Scott for instance) who bring on huge cap savings once cut. The high cap guys can either have their caps negotiated down or in some cases be traded. With the blink of an eye the Jets will be about 13 million under the cap in about a week. The question is do they need to be alot more than that.