Ziggy is the Ansah

[Paradis]

Originally Posted by sec.101row23

True, but there are very few players that come out of college where there isnt questions about their ability to play 3-4 OLB. How many guys in the last 5 years have come out that were no brainer 3-4 OLBs?

Exactly!

And coincidentally - how many OLBs have we drafted at the top end in the last 5 years? Zero...

It's a massive risk. It's like drafting guys to play Safety who've been corners their whole lives (hyperbole, but not really). Ansah is undevelopment, and oversized. It's all kind of concerning for me.

[Gastineau99]

Originally Posted by DDNYjets

With the holes on our roster and the overall lack of talent we need to make sure we draft someone that can play. Plug n play. IMO we must get 2013 starters out of our top 3 picks. With the lack of talent and holes that should not be hard but it would be also nice to get guys that can actually play and not just be a starter bc they are the best of an awful group.

In two years I wouldn't be surprised if Ansah is a Pro Bowler. In two years I wouldn't be surprised if Ansah was Gholston. Therein lies the problem. Also, we are going to ask him to play standing up and I think he much better suited as a 4-3 DE. I can't fall in love with him jumping and running over and around pads b.c I have seen that movie too many times before.

Nope. No way he is Gholston. You can tell that by watching 30 seconds of film. Ziggy has drive, passion, desire and a motor. These were Gholston's problems, never physical, just no aggression or football indtincts. No way Ziggy can bust, he just might not be a pro bowler. His floor is prolly Brian Thomas or Zcslvin Pace in his prime.

[Gastineau99]

Originally Posted by sec.101row23

True, but there are very few players that come out of college where there isnt questions about their ability to play 3-4 OLB. How many guys in the last 5 years have come out that were no brainer 3-4 OLBs?

Chris Long and Von Miller off the top of my head.

Stop talking about a 3-4 OLB having to play pass coverage. The great pass rushing OLBs in the NFL are rarely asked to drop into coverage: Suggs, Ware, Miller, Aldon Smith, Matthews, Dumervil, etc. A stud, pass rushing 3-4 OLB is more of a DE than an OLB.

[ThePenguin]

Ziggy is at the top of my list. Followed by Dion Jordan. Id be disapointed if we dont walk away with one of these two guys

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by Gastineau99

Chris Long and Von Miller off the top of my head.

Stop talking about a 3-4 OLB having to play pass coverage. The great pass rushing OLBs in the NFL are rarely asked to drop into coverage: Suggs, Ware, Miller, Aldon Smith, Matthews, Dumervil, etc. A stud, pass rushing 3-4 OLB is more of a DE than an OLB.

This statement is why Im shocked how much everyone wants to talk about hip fluidity with these guys. Or why with ansah, we are that worried about him being in a 2 point stance.....he will be in a 3 point stance 70+% of the time and when he isnt, he is certainly strong enough to hold the POA, certainly moreso then mingo.

If we want the next adalius thomas, who rex can move around the formation, have cover TEs and run some zone-blitzes (away from his side) then the guy is jordan - we know he can do that as thats what he was asked to do in college.

If we want to find the next dominant passrusher, like suggs, who will play "OLB" but will actually be a DE, Ansah is the guy

[sec.101row23]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

This statement is why Im shocked how much everyone wants to talk about hip fluidity with these guys. Or why with ansah, we are that worried about him being in a 2 point stance.....he will be in a 3 point stance 70+% of the time and when he isnt, he is certainly strong enough to hold the POA, certainly moreso then mingo.

If we want the next adalius thomas, who rex can move around the formation, have cover TEs and run some zone-blitzes (away from his side) then the guy is jordan - we know he can do that as thats what he was asked to do in college.

If we want to find the next dominant passrusher, like suggs, who will play "OLB" but will actually be a DE, Ansah is the guy

Like you said, I think it is important when looking at these potential OLBs to realize that there are 2 OLBs needed in the 3-4, and that they do not have the same responsibilities and skill sets. One will be more of a traditional DE (Ansah), the other will need to be more OLB and play in space (Jordan).

[Yankeejet22]

NFL Network gettin' Ziggy with it...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/mock-draft...stock-of-Ansah








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[C Mart]

@MoveTheSticks: Just watched 2 more tapes on Ziggy Ansah…He's going to benefit from staying at one spot. BYU moves him all over the place. Violent hands!

@MoveTheSticks: Dion Jordan and Ziggy Ansah have different skill sets. Jordan-smooth and slithery while Ansah is more of a herky/jerky athlete with power

@MoveTheSticks: I think Ansah is a better fit for DET's scheme. He can use the runway from the "wide 9" to convert speed to power. #Ziggy #DionJordan

@MoveTheSticks: I think Dion Jordan makes a lot of sense for the Jaguars. Perfect scheme fit.

[K-Ro 25]

Originally Posted by C Mart

@MoveTheSticks: Just watched 2 more tapes on Ziggy Ansah…He's going to benefit from staying at one spot. BYU moves him all over the place. Violent hands!

@MoveTheSticks: Dion Jordan and Ziggy Ansah have different skill sets. Jordan-smooth and slithery while Ansah is more of a herky/jerky athlete with power

@MoveTheSticks: I think Ansah is a better fit for DET's scheme. He can use the runway from the "wide 9" to convert speed to power. #Ziggy #DionJordan

@MoveTheSticks: I think Dion Jordan makes a lot of sense for the Jaguars. Perfect scheme fit.

This dude knows what he's talking about. I'm praying Jordan doesn't go 2.

Ansah needs to be in the right scheme with a proper coaching staff. Needs to be in a 4-3.

[Paradis]

Originally Posted by K-Ro 25

This dude knows what he's talking about. I'm praying Jordan doesn't go 2.

Ansah needs to be in the right scheme with a proper coaching staff. Needs to be in a 4-3.

Exactly. I don't know where this Ansah @ OLB notion even started from.

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by Paradis

Exactly. I don't know where this Ansah @ OLB notion even started from.

It came from the fact that he played a good deal of snaps at BYU in a 2 point stance.

It came from the fact that in Rex's defense, he has one OLB that basically plays DE. Look at how much pace and before that suggs played in a 3 point stance.

It came from the fact that true 3-4 OLBs, whether they stand up or are down on the line need to be very strong and powerful to hold the edge as there is no OLB behind/outside them. 4-3 ends, can rely more on speed as their is another LB outside them.

I dont know if ansah is the right guy for our defense, but to say he has no chance at playing that role is ridiculous.

[Paradis]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

It came from the fact that he played a good deal of snaps at BYU in a 2 point stance.

and it showed. He didn't dominate at either. He would have done better to play one stance and develop. Especially given the fact that this is largely new to him.


It came from the fact that true 3-4 OLBs, whether they stand up or are down on the line need to be very strong and powerful to hold the edge as there is no OLB behind/outside them. 4-3 ends, can rely more on speed as their is another LB outside them.

No they don't. They need to have a burst. They need to be loose. What you're describing is a DE in a 3-4 system. Bruce Irvin is not powerful and strong. He's relentless and comes tearing off the edge.

I dont know if ansah is the right guy for our defense, but to say he has no chance at playing that role is ridiculous.

It's not a matter of no chance, it's just a matter of not ready, not yet and its not the best fit for his strengths and body type.

[Tinstar]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

It came from the fact that he played a good deal of snaps at BYU in a 2 point stance.

It came from the fact that in Rex's defense, he has one OLB that basically plays DE. Look at how much pace and before that suggs played in a 3 point stance.

It came from the fact that true 3-4 OLBs, whether they stand up or are down on the line need to be very strong and powerful to hold the edge as there is no OLB behind/outside them. 4-3 ends, can rely more on speed as their is another LB outside them.

I dont know if ansah is the right guy for our defense, but to say he has no chance at playing that role is ridiculous.

Let the church say amen.

I have no idea why Jet fans haven't figured out that Rex Ryan's multi-scheme defense incorporates OLBers who play like 43 DEs. All they do is play zone defense set the edge against the run and attack the QB when the down and distance allows it. The key to the Jets defense is putting the offense in 2nd and 3rd and long. In other words, setting the edge, forcing the running back towards the NT and inside backers and making the plays. If we have skinny outside Linebackers like Mingo, that goes out the window.

[NYJCAP2]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

It came from the fact that he played a good deal of snaps at BYU in a 2 point stance.

It came from the fact that in Rex's defense, he has one OLB that basically plays DE. Look at how much pace and before that suggs played in a 3 point stance.

It came from the fact that true 3-4 OLBs, whether they stand up or are down on the line need to be very strong and powerful to hold the edge as there is no OLB behind/outside them. 4-3 ends, can rely more on speed as their is another LB outside them.

I dont know if ansah is the right guy for our defense, but to say he has no chance at playing that role is ridiculous.

Good post, eagle.

A pass rush specialist is a fan-ta-sy position!

[C Mart]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

It came from the fact that he played a good deal of snaps at BYU in a 2 point stance.

It came from the fact that in Rex's defense, he has one OLB that basically plays DE. Look at how much pace and before that suggs played in a 3 point stance.

It came from the fact that true 3-4 OLBs, whether they stand up or are down on the line need to be very strong and powerful to hold the edge as there is no OLB behind/outside them. 4-3 ends, can rely more on speed as their is another LB outside them.

I dont know if ansah is the right guy for our defense, but to say he has no chance at playing that role is ridiculous.

From Gil Brandt:

Ezekiel "Ziggy" Ansah, DE, BYU
Ansah was part of a group of defensive ends picked out to practice linebacker techniques at the NFL Scouting Combine, and it was just unbelievable how well he mastered dropping into space and reacting to the ball. This versatility just boosts his long-term potential. He'll do equally well whether he's working as an outside linebacker for a 3-4 defense or as a defensive end in a 4-3. The Ghana native's story is already amazing, given how little football experience he has; multiple Pro Bowl appearances will simply make it more so.

[FijiJet]

Originally Posted by Tinstar

Let the church say amen.

I have no idea why Jet fans haven't figured out that Rex Ryan's multi-scheme defense incorporates OLBers who play like 43 DEs. All they do is play zone defense set the edge against the run and attack the QB when the down and distance allows it. The key to the Jets defense is putting the offense in 2nd and 3rd and long. In other words, setting the edge, forcing the running back towards the NT and inside backers and making the plays. If we have skinny outside Linebackers like Mingo, that goes out the window.

Rex for jhe most part tailors his D to fit the talent available. Ansah would be a formidable addition, so would Jordan though they have very different and distinct skillsets as a few posters have pointed out earlier. However, as a no brainer pure passrushing OLB then Jones is the guy most proven at elite levels of the college game. He's an outstanding passrusher and of medically cleared he has to be high on the Jets agenda.
Rushing the passer behind Coples, Wilks, Ellis/Garray/Harrison up front should give OC's and qb's fits. If you want someone to focus on the core role of qb killer then Jones is the dude.

[eaglenj]

Originally Posted by Paradis

It's not a matter of no chance, it's just a matter of not ready, not yet and its not the best fit for his strengths and body type.

Paradis - I know you are a knowledgeable poster to the draft forum and dont want to turn the draft part of this site into "main forum 2.0" with the ridiculousness, but what are you talking about with the Irvin comparison? He plays in a 4-3 defense.

As for the 3-4 OLB comments, (and our defense is completely different from Pitts) but is james harrison "loose"? No, hes strong as hell.

Von Miller is a great 3-4 OLB because of his ability to bend the edge, but also because he is strong enough to not be overrun vs the run.

95% of jet fans think pace and BT sucked, but they forget that those guys helped propel the defense to top 10 rankings multiple times without getting great sack numbers - because the position on Rex's defense values strength over speed.

Ansah happens to have both, plus the athletic ability to compete in todays NFL and track down bubble screens, etc.

This "looseness" and "fluidity in coverage" is not what we would draft with ansah, we would draft out version of terrell suggs. If we take dion jordan, he will play an COMPLETELY different role, more like adalius thomas did - move him around, blitz, cover etc while we have someone like mcintyre hopefully set the edge in the "suggs role".

[Paradis]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

Paradis - I know you are a knowledgeable poster to the draft forum and dont want to turn the draft part of this site into "main forum 2.0" with the ridiculousness, but what are you talking about with the Irvin comparison? He plays in a 4-3 defense.

As for the 3-4 OLB comments, (and our defense is completely different from Pitts) but is james harrison "loose"? No, hes strong as hell.

Von Miller is a great 3-4 OLB because of his ability to bend the edge, but also because he is strong enough to not be overrun vs the run.

95% of jet fans think pace and BT sucked, but they forget that those guys helped propel the defense to top 10 rankings multiple times without getting great sack numbers - because the position on Rex's defense values strength over speed.

Ansah happens to have both, plus the athletic ability to compete in todays NFL and track down bubble screens, etc.

This "looseness" and "fluidity in coverage" is not what we would draft with ansah, we would draft out version of terrell suggs. If we take dion jordan, he will play an COMPLETELY different role, more like adalius thomas did - move him around, blitz, cover etc while we have someone like mcintyre hopefully set the edge in the "suggs role".

I hear what you're saying. you're not mad, you just seeing something different than me. We went down this road, remember?

I'm firmly part of this team;

4-3 end, no 3-4 at all.

Not fluid enough for OLB, will not be strong enough for 3-4 DE, not worth the risk beefing a player up like that for a position he might not fit as.

Don't like him as an OLB. I do think he could be a pretty good 3-4 DE if he puts on some weight.

I don't see how Ansah is a 3-4 anything unless he is impressive as a pass defender and quickness department at the combine (which I don't see happening). I also have concerns with Jordan playing DE in any scheme. He is just too thin and won't anchor well on the line. He needs space.

Really just trying to guage why so many people think he ll be a great 3-4OLB, while hes very athletic from all the tape ive watched (and ive watched A LOT) he looks horrible in space and looks more like A StrongSide LDE for the 4-3 and nothing more.

Have you seen his tape? He lined up more at 34DE and Sometimes NT for them more then OLB, people act like his athleticism will translate to OLB but it wont

Could he adopt a role like BT, as you put it, or Thomas? Maybe... But I just don't see #9 overall talent at OLB there. I've watched him. He's played at 2nd round level thus far. He was average at best against ND. He's got 1st round potential, and the heart to do it, so I get the love. He worked out surprisingly well in linebacker drills. Again, adds to his "potential" resume. That's just not what we need ATM.

Irvin (regardless of what system he plays in) is physically the embodiment of the PRS that everyone is clamouring for. Maybe you're not, maybe you're looking at Ansah in more realistic "where he'll actually fit in" kind of way. Jones is that kind of guy too. Unfortunately, he's got that asterisk next to his name. As does Jordan. As does Ansah. As does Mingo, etc etc. Moore was almost the answer, until sh*t the bed.

To put it simply, he's worth more to a team in need of a full time 40 front DE. We don't need another project at OLB right now. For what this team needs, he's got a 2nd round grade in my books.

[Paradis]

Originally Posted by eaglenj

Ansah happens to have both, plus the athletic ability to compete in todays NFL and track down bubble screens, etc.

Let's take a moment (everyone) to watch him here. I didn't chose his worst game. I'm just giving this some stock footage.



Where in here do you get impression that he has speed and burst to coming crashing off the edge? Or the the ability to change directions, chase down screens? Play in any kind of coverage... LOOK AT HIM! He's a DE! Built like one, plays like one.

More so than that, an untrained eye can tell he's got a ways to go. It's not the end of the world, it's just the way it is... And we're gonna stand him up and get him to hold down one of the most instinctual positions on the defense??

[Paradis]

Conversely, watch Jones here;



Watch how much ground he covers. How he reads the play. He moves across the block. How he commands the blitz read. In space, he looks comfortable, quick. Fluid. He slices through the line.

I don't know how else to paint it. It's worlds apart.