Herms comments on Safty Sean Taylor

[dickkotite]

"you cant coach talent" = a player who is so gifted needs no nurturing? OR

"you cant coach talent" = A player who is lacking in talent cannot be nurtured?


who knows

[PatsFanTX]

[quote][i]Originally posted by dickkotite[/i]@Feb 29 2004, 10:16 PM
[b]
I never said that a talented athelethe needs no coaching. [/b][/quote]

OK- now it's 100% <_<

[PatsFanTX]

[quote][i]Originally posted by yourworstmemory[/i]@Feb 29 2004, 10:11 PM
[b] tx is just a dumbass... [/b][/quote]

No, that's your clueless headcoach.

[Nails]

[quote][i]Originally posted by PatsFanTX+Feb 29 2004, 10:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (PatsFanTX @ Feb 29 2004, 10:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Nails[/i]@Feb 29 2004, 10:00 PM
[b]
What exactly does this have to do with what Herm said?

Nothing. [/b][/quote]

[b]"Coaches can't coach talent."[/b]

That is exactly what Hemy said.

Obviously, your fearless leader is clueless when it comes to [u][b]coaching[/b][/u] an NFL team. [/b][/quote]
You certainly have an interesting understanding of the English language.

Talent can't be increased, decreased, or changed in any way.

It is what it is.

When you coach a player you help him play up to the potential of the God given talent he was born with.

There's no way to give him more talent or make his talent better. If that was possible than Chad Pennington, given the right coach, should have the arm strength of John Elway.

[quote][i]Originally posted by TomShane+Feb 29 2004, 09:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (TomShane @ Feb 29 2004, 09:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Nails[/i]@Feb 29 2004, 09:17 PM
[b] Herm can't coach height either. He sucks. [/b][/quote]
Yes, we're just picking on Herm, but the man IS just too fatalistic. When he says "You can't coach talent," he's obviously making a generalization about God-given ability, but it does reek of his attitude that things "happen" beyond his control, i.e his "somebody has to make a play" speech after his losses.

This, in an era where the less-talented team has won the SB the last, oh, four years. [/b][/quote]
Yeah hmm Tampa Bay had less talented team? Riiiiiiiiiight. You're the idiot. You ***** constantly about how bad Herm is but when he does leave then you will ***** about how the Front Office sucks. All you do is cry and *****. That says something about what you are. A *****.

Herm doesnt lead the team to the Superbowl but the man is not nearly as bad as you like to say he is.

Plus you sit hear and moan about how bad Herm is. Take a reality check: He just got an extension. He's not going anywhere. Do the board a favor and stop crying about how bad he is because your crying doesn't change anything. It just annoys me and everyone else.

[PatsFanTX]

[quote][i]Originally posted by wickedtwisted[/i]@Feb 29 2004, 11:09 PM
[b]

Herm doesnt lead the team to the Superbowl but the man is not nearly as bad as you like to say he is.

[/b][/quote]

So wicked, what exactly has Hermy done?

Three straight regular seasons with a regressing record.

6-10 and gets a 2-year extension.

Says all the right things because he is a "motivator".

Give me a break, if Hermy was in the business world his results would have had his butt on the street.

Oh yea, Hermy got the Jets to the playoffs 2 out of 3 years. :lol: :lol: :lol:

So... the playoffs have NOTHING to do with that? Also he had poor starts but SOMEHOW he managed to bring the jets back?

[CUJet]

Bill Bellicheck is Awful!
He won the superbowl one year.. then failed to make the playoffs the next...
:blink:
c'mon now.

[Piper]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham[/i]@Feb 29 2004, 05:22 PM
[b]I'm sure what Herm meant to say was ... "You can't [b]teach[/b] talent"

In that respect he is RIGHT ... talent is God Given ... either you have it or you don't[/b][/quote]
Maybe he meant to say "[b]I [/b]can't coach talent" in which case he was also right.

[PatsFanTX]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Nails[/i]@Feb 29 2004, 10:40 PM
[b]

Talent can't be increased, decreased, or changed in any way.

It is what it is.

[/b][/quote]

Nails, You are confusing "physical attributes" with talent.

You mean to tell me a "good" coach can't take a player with tremendous talent and then maximize that talent to the fullest extent?

So coaches can't improve a players technique, improve his instincts through situational study, or simply define his role to maximize effectiveness?

Maybe NFL teams don't need head coaches.

[Savage69]

Hey Tex don't you remember a Herm quote last year when a
reporter asked Herm what the Jets had to do to right the Ship?
Herm said; We have to get all our chicken wings in a row and
cross our fingers and Toes!! Now tell me if that don't remind you
of Lombardi or what??? :lol:

Ok this thread has just been about picking Herm's words apart. All you Herm haters need to come to a reality check: Herm got an extension. Barring a season like Oakland had last season maybe he could get fired but anything less than that hes staying.

Why cry about something you cant change?

[bitonti]

bottom line

JETS FANS GOT SPOILED

guess what JETS fans its not "good" coaches who take Mediocre players and make them look great

ITS HOF CALIBER COACHES

good coaches make mistakes all the time (and yes that includes Herman)

HOF CALIBER coaches do not

wasnt too long ago Belly and Bill were on the SAME STAFF!!!

[b]savage[/b], [b]TomShane[/b] and others

in my opinion your hatred of herm is directly related to the fact that your perception of "good coaching" is warped. Is Herm a GREAT COACH? no but he's better than at least half of the league... i mean frickin Dave Wanndsdat just got extended!!! Dick Jauron was the head coach of the BEars for 5 years - Fassel for 7 years? That's more indicitive of the state of coaching in the league than the glory days of Bill Parcells and Bill Bellychek on the same staff.

seriously, get with the program, these guys are gone and they aren't coming back - the alternatives (John Fox, Marvin Lewis) are essentially PEERS of Herman who have had their ups and downs... if they are better than Herm it is only marginally... and i have many examples from the past year to prove that if you are interested.

for the record Savage Kotite might have had a better win-loss than Herm but he also had Randall Cunningham, Reggie White and Jerome Brown in their primes - not to mention that Herm made the playoffs twice, and the second time it was the shortened field of 6, not the 8 that had made it in Kotite's Eagle stint.

[dickkotite]

bit

the bottom line with coaches is the w/l record correct?

how can you goof on dave wannstadt when his w/l record is actually impressive. it BLOWS hermans away.You can twist it any way you want, but DW is a superior coach to herm hands down.

also, herm is NOT better than half the leagues coaches. he is in the top of the lowest third. That was already "proven" months ago when we made a complete list of all the coaches and even the most passionate supporter of herm couldnt argue where he stood when you have the list of names in front of you.

[bitonti]

DK i never said W-L dictates how good or bad a coach is.

Dave Wanndsadt is a moron, regardless of record.

[Savage69]

[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Mar 1 2004, 11:30 AM
[b]DK i never said W-L dictates how good or bad a coach is.

Dave Wanndsadt is a moron, regardless of record.[/b][/quote]
Ok Bit, what is the criteria in your opinion of a Good Coach??
Like I always say I wanted Fox or Lewis..You think Herm was
a better choice then those two I take it!! And for those that say
Herm is the Coach Deal with it..I say... if you can stand the Jets
being a Losing Team again you can deal with losing better then I
can!! <_<

[Min81]

It just seems as if no matter what Jets message board a person may gravitate towards, the same endless conversations always seem to occur.... Bradway is incompetent vs. Bradway is decent vs. Bradway is a soild gm.... Herm is a terrible coach vs. Herm is a decent coach, vs. Herm is a good/very coach... Hackett is horrible vs. Hackett is average, vs. Hackett is a perfect fit with Chad and should stay... I actually do not have a big problem with these controversies being rehashed because it is the offseason and there really is not much to discuss at this point besides the draft... But the lengths that people will go through to prove their points are ludicrous... In a twisted way, I am actually impressed by a Jets fans seemingly innate ability to manipulate certain facts or even pseudo facts in order to present an argument in a manner that is favorable to their cause... This quote by Edwards is a total non-issue as to whether or not he is a quality NFL coach... (some may have been simply poking fun, but it has still wound up leading to a genuine discussion as to whether or not Herm is a good coach)... This is an open and shut case... Everybody knows that Herm is not gifted with a supreme grasp of the English language... In terms of charisma and the ability to convince, Herm does an excellent oratorical job in my opinion, but simply put, his English tends to suffer on occassion.. Does that make him a stupid coach?? I do not believe so... He may occasionally make "stupid" grammatical mistakes (flustrated being a favorite of most), but that does not make him an overall moron, or an idiotic coach... What Herm said here is very simple to understand... He was complimenting Taylor on his seemingly superior talent... What he meant was, a coach cannot give a player more talent.. Talent does not grow on trees.. A person is born with athletic ability.. It can be honed, and shaped, but no taught... Taylor has the measurables that should equal NFL success... Plain and simple.. Could he have said it better?? Absolutely.. but everybody knows what he meant.... Dissecting every single sentence a person says can even make the most intelligent people appear naive... Nobody is perfect.. Just give the guy a break, and instead of concetrating on his English, let us just hope that we get some more talent in here and make a run next season...

[Boozer76]

[quote][i]Originally posted by dickkotite[/i]@Mar 1 2004, 12:24 PM
[b] bit

the bottom line with coaches is the w/l record correct?

how can you goof on dave wannstadt when his w/l record is actually impressive. it BLOWS hermans away.You can twist it any way you want, but DW is a superior coach to herm hands down.

also, herm is NOT better than half the leagues coaches. he is in the top of the lowest third. That was already "proven" months ago when we made a complete list of all the coaches and even the most passionate supporter of herm couldnt argue where he stood when you have the list of names in front of you. [/b][/quote]
3 years ago Wannstedt had a very good MIA team that pretty much sleepwalked in the playoffs and got their asses handed to them. The next year they signed R Williams, already had one of the best D's in the league, and had a respectable passing game. They were the SB favorites after week 6 that year. There was no way any other team in the AFC was as good as them overall on paper. Not even close. So what did they do with all this talent?? Missed the playoffs completely. Last year the Dolphins were the same exact team but the D was a year older which did affect them. The were still one of the best teams in the AFC on paper and proceeded to miss the playoffs altogether again.

I'm sorry but if you want to use Wannstedt as an example of who is better than Herm, it gonna get torn apart. Herm never had half the talent that Wannstedt had. Not even half. Yet Herm has more playoff appearances in the last 3 years than Wannstedt.

[Nails]

[quote][i]Originally posted by PatsFanTX+Mar 1 2004, 11:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (PatsFanTX @ Mar 1 2004, 11:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin--Nails[/i]@Feb 29 2004, 10:40 PM
[b]

Talent can't be increased, decreased, or changed in any way.

It is what it is.

[/b][/quote]

Nails, You are confusing "physical attributes" with talent.

You mean to tell me a "good" coach can't take a player with tremendous talent and then maximize that talent to the fullest extent?

So coaches can't improve a players technique, improve his instincts through situational study, or simply define his role to maximize effectiveness?

Maybe NFL teams don't need head coaches.[/b][/quote]
I'm not confusing anything.

Just reread what you just wrote and maybe it will dawn on you.

Talent is an innate quantitative aptitude determined at birth. It can't be altered. It can only be realized.

To realize it takes hard work and yes - coaching.

[b] But you don't coach talent. You coach the human being that possesses the talent. [/b]

If you don't get it, you don't get it.

[PatsFanTX]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Boozer76[/i]@Mar 1 2004, 12:55 PM
[b]

I'm sorry but if you want to use Wannstedt as an example of who is better than Herm, it gonna get torn apart. Herm never had half the talent that Wannstedt had. Not even half. [/b][/quote]

I won't get into the Hermy versus Wanny debate, but I will say that no coach with as much talent as Wanny has had with the Phins has done so little.

The guy is as poor with X's and O's as any coach in the league. The game against the Pats at the end of 2002 is a perfect example. An 11 point lead with under 4 minutes to play, 1st and ten at their own fifteen and what does Wanny do. Calls 3 straight passing plays after Ricky ran through the Pats like warm butter. One first down here and the Phins go to the playoffs and the Jets sit home. By far, the worst coached game I ever saw in the NFL.