Soldier Says Moore Film Hurting Military Morale

Come Back to NY · 07-28-2004, 10:54 PM

[b]Soldier Says Moore Film Hurting Military Morale [/b]

By Jeff Gannon Talon News July 27, 2004

(Talon News) -- An American soldier says that Michael Moore's agitprop film "Fahrenheit 9/11" is making the rounds among soldiers at U.S. military bases overseas and is "shocking and crushing soldiers" and making them feel "ashamed" of their service in Iraq. Army Spc. Joe Roche, serving with the 1st Armored Division wrote in a recent e-mail that the impact on morale is "devastating."

Roche says that the film affects soldiers in different ways, but often with the same results. He describes how young and impressionable soldiers recruited out of high school are unfamiliar with the college-type political debate environment and the full range of issues involved. He says they are particularly vulnerable to being hurt by a "vicious" film like Moore's.

The Army specialist points out that others who joined for reasons of money and other benefits have little knowledge of the countries and never gave full thought to the issues. He says that seeing this film has jolted them grievously because they never even knew where some of these countries were located.

Still others are suffering from being away from family and loved ones. Roche noted that these soldiers are burned out from 15 months of duty and susceptible to emotional manipulation.

But Roche says he is one of the soldiers who "want to explode in anger and rage at this abuse of the First Amendment and the way Moore has twisted reality so harshly."

"Moore ... is hurting us worse than the enemy has," Roche says.

Roche writes about Specialist Janecek who was feeling depressed because a close family member is nearing the end of her life, and saw the film.

The soldier told Roche, "I feel ... ashamed, like this was all a lie."

Roche says that many of the comments are of absolute shock at the close connections Moore makes between the Bush family and the Bin Laden family in Saudi Arabia. A common reaction to Moore's allegations is of confusion and doubt about the commander-in-chief's credibility.

He adds that anger and shame are ruining what should be a proud and happy return from 15 months of duty in Operation Iraqi Freedom -- all due to the lies and deceptions of the filmmaker.

Roche writes about Lt. Bischoff, who is Angry about Moore's lies and distortions but believes "the damage is done." He says that this is the type of thing expected from Angry leftists like Moore, but he wasn't prepared for the full impact this film is now having and how it has been embraced and supported by so many Hollywood elites.

Specialist Roche wonders how damaging and shocking a Moore project would have been in the 1940s making such a video of Franklin Roosevelt. He says that all the corruption and decadence in that administration would have fed such a project well. He also thinks about how damaging and shocking would such a Moore project have been to Lincoln, who wavered and shifted often in finding the right mediums and balances in pursuing the great causes of the Civil War.

Roche is clearly anguished that Moore is "hurting us, hurting America, and today I can tell you he is hurting your soldiers."

Democrats continue to embrace Moore and his film, allowing the filmmaker to have unrestricted access to the floor of their convention in Boston. The broadcast media can't seem to get enough of Moore's unshaven face, appearing frequently on nearly every network.

Leftist groups like MoveOn.org are promoting the anti-Bush film. The National Education Association showed it to its membership at a recent convention. The Washington, DC premiere of "Fahrenheit 9/11" attracted a crowd of 800 high-ranking Democrats and media figures.

One of the film's central assertions is that President Bush allowed a planeload of bin Laden relatives, unscreened by the FBI, to leave the United States while the airspace was still closed after September 11, 2001. Former counterterrorism chief and Bush critic Richard Clarke refuted all of those claims, saying that he alone authorized the flight that took place when the airspace had reopened and only after the FBI cleared all of the passengers.

R. Tyme · 07-28-2004, 11:12 PM

When are you going to stop blaming Moore for what's happening in Iraq? you've got his picture in your sig all over the place and next to a terrorist...what is that? a nice diversion? the guy's a friggin filmmaker that's all and a publically questionable one at that. I, like many Americans questioned what Bush was doing before that film came out. If Bush & Co. didn't get us into this crap, there wouldn't be a Moore film and there wouldn't be soldiers in Iraq feeling bad. I guess it's better to feel bad about a film than to be dead and brought home in a box. Moore did not put the soldiers there.

Come Back to NY · 07-28-2004, 11:20 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by R. Tyme[/i]@Jul 28 2004, 11:12 PM
[b] When are you going to stop blaming Moore for what's happening in Iraq? you've got his picture in your sig all over the place and next to a terrorist...what is that? a nice diversion? the guy's a friggin filmmaker that's all and a publically questionable one at that. I, like many Americans questioned what Bush was doing before that film came out. If Bush & Co. didn't get us into this crap, there wouldn't be a Moore film and there wouldn't be soldiers in Iraq feeling bad. I guess it's better to feel bad about a film than to be dead and brought home in a box. Moore did not put the soldiers there. [/b][/quote]
Please....within the next 24-hours point out where I've stated/posted that Moore-on is to blame for Iraq/Afgahn/9/11/01.

The clock is ticking.

R. Tyme · 07-28-2004, 11:25 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY+Jul 28 2004, 11:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Come Back to NY @ Jul 28 2004, 11:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--R. Tyme[/i]@Jul 28 2004, 11:12 PM
[b] When are you going to stop blaming Moore for what's happening in Iraq? you've got his picture in your sig all over the place and next to a terrorist...what is that? a nice diversion? the guy's a friggin filmmaker that's all and a publically questionable one at that. I, like many Americans questioned what Bush was doing before that film came out. If Bush & Co. didn't get us into this crap, there wouldn't be a Moore film and there wouldn't be soldiers in Iraq feeling bad. I guess it's better to feel bad about a film than to be dead and brought home in a box. Moore did not put the soldiers there. [/b][/quote]
Please....within the next 24-hours point out where I've stated/posted that Moore-on is to blame for Iraq/Afgahn/9/11/01.

The clock is ticking. [/b][/quote]
then why all the anti-Moore propaganda? the posts? this post

Come Back to NY · 07-28-2004, 11:31 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by R. Tyme+Jul 28 2004, 11:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (R. Tyme @ Jul 28 2004, 11:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by -Come Back to NY@Jul 28 2004, 11:20 PM
[b] <!--QuoteBegin--R. Tyme[/i]@Jul 28 2004, 11:12 PM
[b] When are you going to stop blaming Moore for what's happening in Iraq? you've got his picture in your sig all over the place and next to a terrorist...what is that? a nice diversion? the guy's a friggin filmmaker that's all and a publically questionable one at that. I, like many Americans questioned what Bush was doing before that film came out. If Bush & Co. didn't get us into this crap, there wouldn't be a Moore film and there wouldn't be soldiers in Iraq feeling bad. I guess it's better to feel bad about a film than to be dead and brought home in a box. Moore did not put the soldiers there. [/b][/quote]
Please....within the next 24-hours point out where I've stated/posted that Moore-on is to blame for Iraq/Afgahn/9/11/01.

The clock is ticking. [/b][/quote]
then why all the anti-Moore propaganda? the posts? this post [/b][/quote]
For the record, the Moore image in my signature has been the same for almost nine months.

Further, my hate for Moore goes back to his days of Mother Jones (if you know anything about this guys history). Notice how fatass wimped out and did not go to Crawford tonight for his movie as he first stated.

Then again, if you feel justified standing up for someone who said America was wrong for ousting the Taliban so be it.

Warfish · 07-29-2004, 12:23 AM

What a crock of self-indulgent crap....I'm sure THIS article writer and the soldier involved don't have an agenda, or don't lean to the Right.....

[quote][b]..........is "shocking and crushing soldiers" and making them feel "ashamed"...........the impact on morale is "devastating."...................He says they are particularly vulnerable to being hurt by a "vicious" film like Moore's..................abuse of the First Amendment................"Moore is hurting us worse than the enemy has,"..........................."I feel ... ashamed, like this was all a lie.".............................."the damage is done."......................."hurting us, hurting America, and today I can tell you he is hurting your soldiers."...................[/b][/quote]

So, the U.S. Millitary, strongest Force to ever walk the face of the earth......is brought to it's knees by a fat-arse liberal's little propaganda film, eh?

Whatever happend to "Sticks and Stones Can break my bones but WORDS will never hurt me"???

If this war is so justified, so vital to the US citizenry and so noble, WHY would ANY of our soldiers EVER doubt it just because of some liberal chub from Hollywierd??

If our soldiers wilt in the face of a fat blowhard questioning our leadership, and their goals and reasons for war, well........maybe we should get a wee bit tougher an Army, eh? Perhaps one not so sensative.

Or is this article (written by righties) claiming that our soildiers are so stupid as to believe Moore's Liberal claims (since at least one of you has claimed that only someone who has had a labotomy would listen to or believe Moore.......)

Great article CBTNY, got any more?

RichardSeymour · 07-29-2004, 12:32 AM

God forbid anyone should question policy. It's a good thing no one ever questioned why we were in Vietnam.

Oh, wait.

Moore is a firebrand. A lot of what he says is barely-supported hokum, with enough of it being harsh truth or reasonably backed assertion to ensure his continued popularity.

He's the Anne Coulter of the left, only slightly less rabid. I havn't heard him making assertions like "conservatism is inherently evil" or "all conservatives are traitors" yet.

But still, he's wacky.

So whoop-de-d*mn-doo. Coulter. Moore. Call it a draw.

nickledefense · 07-29-2004, 12:47 AM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY+Jul 29 2004, 03:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Come Back to NY @ Jul 29 2004, 03:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by -R. Tyme@Jul 28 2004, 11:25 PM
[b] [quote]Originally posted by -Come Back to NY@Jul 28 2004, 11:20 PM
[b] <!--QuoteBegin--R. Tyme[/i]@Jul 28 2004, 11:12 PM
[b] When are you going to stop blaming Moore for what's happening in Iraq? you've got his picture in your sig all over the place and next to a terrorist...what is that? a nice diversion? the guy's a friggin filmmaker that's all and a publically questionable one at that. I, like many Americans questioned what Bush was doing before that film came out. If Bush & Co. didn't get us into this crap, there wouldn't be a Moore film and there wouldn't be soldiers in Iraq feeling bad. I guess it's better to feel bad about a film than to be dead and brought home in a box. Moore did not put the soldiers there. [/b][/quote]
Please....within the next 24-hours point out where I've stated/posted that Moore-on is to blame for Iraq/Afgahn/9/11/01.

The clock is ticking. [/b][/quote]
then why all the anti-Moore propaganda? the posts? this post [/b][/quote]
For the record, the Moore image in my signature has been the same for almost nine months.

Further, my hate for Moore goes back to his days of Mother Jones (if you know anything about this guys history). Notice how fatass wimped out and did not go to Crawford tonight for his movie as he first stated.

Then again, if you feel justified standing up for someone who said America was wrong for ousting the Taliban so be it. [/b][/quote]
Blaming Moore for demoralized troops is asine! Moore had nothing to do with American soldiers going to Iraq, and I STRONGLY suspect they may have been demoralized long before F-9/11 hit the theaters only one month ago.

I get it. You hate Michael Moore.

I'll put all the lies about WMDs and ties to bin Laden aside. If you really care about US Troops, you might want to pay a little more attention to the Bush administration's overall agenda. It was Cheney and Wolfowitz, after all, who thought it would be a sound idea to control the Middle East by invading Iraq, Syria and Iran, and that was before 9/11 even happened.

Has it been worth it, all these lost lives for a geopolitical endeavor that failed?

I'll say one thing about Michael Moore that you can't say about the Bush Administration . . . he has NO blood on his hands.

jetman67 · 07-29-2004, 06:38 AM

[quote][i]Originally posted by nickledefense[/i]@Jul 29 2004, 12:47 AM
[b] Has it been worth it, all these lost lives for a geopolitical endeavor that failed?

[/b][/quote]
Its too soon to call Iraq a failure. It took us several years tohelp rebuild Japan and Germany. To call it a failure is premature.

bitonti · 07-29-2004, 10:39 AM

i feel bad for these soldiers - this war was not needed and we arrived there on (at best) a grave mistake by the executive branch.

bman · 07-29-2004, 10:50 AM

The iraq war is a complete failure...
peopl have died for no reason (other than US securing oil)..
Iraq was not an imminent threat...They could have been dealt with differently...
This will take another 10 years....l
Bush "you are not GOD"...STop trying top play god.

jetman67 · 07-29-2004, 11:42 AM

[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Jul 29 2004, 10:39 AM
[b] this war was not needed but it was fun to watch it on CNN [/b][/quote]
I agree!!!! :lol: :lol:

bitonti · 07-29-2004, 02:14 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Jul 28 2004, 11:31 PM
[b] Then again, if you feel justified standing up for someone who said America was wrong for ousting the Taliban so be it. [/b][/quote]
i've said it before and ill say it again

afghanistan is a s--thole there is probably more al_queda there than ever!

they didn't rebuild anything... it is on the brink of chaos... people are still getting killed

how did we really make the world so much safer by bombing the crap out of afghanistan

one of the poorest nations in the world... it's the landmine center of civilization...

and the sad part is we haven't even attempted to make it better we just moved on to Iraq...

now most of it is controlled by "warlords"

(think about that for a second. the land is controlled by warlords. That's some 5000 BC s--t right there.)

it was a mistake not to finish the job in one front before starting another.

the whole thing wasn't about american security, it was about american interests.

it isn't getting any better, and it could get a whole lot worse...

the soldiers have low morale but it's not all Michael Moore's fault. they have been through the system and if it took Michael Moore going through culture for them to realize the truth then they should feel bad. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out no one really has the same explanation why the war was waged... we just wanted to wage it so badly it didn't matter why... the official reason changed every month for a couple years. what is it now?

bitonti · 07-29-2004, 02:19 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by jetman67+Jul 29 2004, 11:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (jetman67 @ Jul 29 2004, 11:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--bitonti[/i]@Jul 29 2004, 10:39 AM
[b] this war was not needed but it was fun to watch it on CNN [/b][/quote]
I agree!!!! :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote]
one of my finest moments :lol:

jetman didn't it made great TV??

Piper · 07-29-2004, 02:50 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Jul 29 2004, 10:39 AM
[b] i feel bad for these soldiers - this war was not needed and we arrived there on (at best) a grave mistake by the executive branch. [/b][/quote]
I disagree. I believe afganistan was needed, but the administration tried to fight a politially correct war by not going in with overwhelming forces.

latinlawyer · 07-29-2004, 03:06 PM

Actually you know what has demoralized troops...being promised that they would be switched out in 8-12 months and having their stay extended to 15-20 months. How would you feel if you were finally going to see your family after a 12 month tour of duty when POOF....you got orders to stay another 10 months....WHAT THE F? I would go ballistic....

I am no lib but I can understand why there is low morale and this moore movie is not even the tip of the iceberg.

LL

jetman67 · 07-29-2004, 05:08 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti+Jul 29 2004, 02:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (bitonti @ Jul 29 2004, 02:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by -jetman67@Jul 29 2004, 11:42 AM
[b] <!--QuoteBegin--bitonti[/i]@Jul 29 2004, 10:39 AM
[b] this war was not needed but it was fun to watch it on CNN [/b][/quote]
I agree!!!! :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote]
one of my finest moments :lol:

jetman didn't it made great TV?? [/b][/quote]
Im sure CNN's execs enjoyed the war.

07-28-2004, 10:54 PM	#1
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[b]Soldier Says Moore Film Hurting Military Morale [/b] By Jeff Gannon Talon News July 27, 2004 (Talon News) -- An American soldier says that Michael Moore's agitprop film "Fahrenheit 9/11" is making the rounds among soldiers at U.S. military bases overseas and is "shocking and crushing soldiers" and making them feel "ashamed" of their service in Iraq. Army Spc. Joe Roche, serving with the 1st Armored Division wrote in a recent e-mail that the impact on morale is "devastating." Roche says that the film affects soldiers in different ways, but often with the same results. He describes how young and impressionable soldiers recruited out of high school are unfamiliar with the college-type political debate environment and the full range of issues involved. He says they are particularly vulnerable to being hurt by a "vicious" film like Moore's. The Army specialist points out that others who joined for reasons of money and other benefits have little knowledge of the countries and never gave full thought to the issues. He says that seeing this film has jolted them grievously because they never even knew where some of these countries were located. Still others are suffering from being away from family and loved ones. Roche noted that these soldiers are burned out from 15 months of duty and susceptible to emotional manipulation. But Roche says he is one of the soldiers who "want to explode in anger and rage at this abuse of the First Amendment and the way Moore has twisted reality so harshly." "Moore ... is hurting us worse than the enemy has," Roche says. Roche writes about Specialist Janecek who was feeling depressed because a close family member is nearing the end of her life, and saw the film. The soldier told Roche, "I feel ... ashamed, like this was all a lie." Roche says that many of the comments are of absolute shock at the close connections Moore makes between the Bush family and the Bin Laden family in Saudi Arabia. A common reaction to Moore's allegations is of confusion and doubt about the commander-in-chief's credibility. He adds that anger and shame are ruining what should be a proud and happy return from 15 months of duty in Operation Iraqi Freedom -- all due to the lies and deceptions of the filmmaker. Roche writes about Lt. Bischoff, who is Angry about Moore's lies and distortions but believes "the damage is done." He says that this is the type of thing expected from Angry leftists like Moore, but he wasn't prepared for the full impact this film is now having and how it has been embraced and supported by so many Hollywood elites. Specialist Roche wonders how damaging and shocking a Moore project would have been in the 1940s making such a video of Franklin Roosevelt. He says that all the corruption and decadence in that administration would have fed such a project well. He also thinks about how damaging and shocking would such a Moore project have been to Lincoln, who wavered and shifted often in finding the right mediums and balances in pursuing the great causes of the Civil War. Roche is clearly anguished that Moore is "hurting us, hurting America, and today I can tell you he is hurting your soldiers." Democrats continue to embrace Moore and his film, allowing the filmmaker to have unrestricted access to the floor of their convention in Boston. The broadcast media can't seem to get enough of Moore's unshaven face, appearing frequently on nearly every network. Leftist groups like MoveOn.org are promoting the anti-Bush film. The National Education Association showed it to its membership at a recent convention. The Washington, DC premiere of "Fahrenheit 9/11" attracted a crowd of 800 high-ranking Democrats and media figures. One of the film's central assertions is that President Bush allowed a planeload of bin Laden relatives, unscreened by the FBI, to leave the United States while the airspace was still closed after September 11, 2001. Former counterterrorism chief and Bush critic Richard Clarke refuted all of those claims, saying that he alone authorized the flight that took place when the airspace had reopened and only after the FBI cleared all of the passengers.

07-28-2004, 11:12 PM	#2
R. Tyme totally disgusted with Jets' dis-organization Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 3,476	When are you going to stop blaming Moore for what's happening in Iraq? you've got his picture in your sig all over the place and next to a terrorist...what is that? a nice diversion? the guy's a friggin filmmaker that's all and a publically questionable one at that. I, like many Americans questioned what Bush was doing before that film came out. If Bush & Co. didn't get us into this crap, there wouldn't be a Moore film and there wouldn't be soldiers in Iraq feeling bad. I guess it's better to feel bad about a film than to be dead and brought home in a box. Moore did not put the soldiers there.

07-28-2004, 11:20 PM	#3
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[quote][i]Originally posted by R. Tyme[/i]@Jul 28 2004, 11:12 PM [b] When are you going to stop blaming Moore for what's happening in Iraq? you've got his picture in your sig all over the place and next to a terrorist...what is that? a nice diversion? the guy's a friggin filmmaker that's all and a publically questionable one at that. I, like many Americans questioned what Bush was doing before that film came out. If Bush & Co. didn't get us into this crap, there wouldn't be a Moore film and there wouldn't be soldiers in Iraq feeling bad. I guess it's better to feel bad about a film than to be dead and brought home in a box. Moore did not put the soldiers there. [/b][/quote] Please....within the next 24-hours point out where I've stated/posted that Moore-on is to blame for Iraq/Afgahn/9/11/01. The clock is ticking.

07-28-2004, 11:25 PM	#4
R. Tyme totally disgusted with Jets' dis-organization Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 3,476	[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY+Jul 28 2004, 11:20 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Come Back to NY @ Jul 28 2004, 11:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--R. Tyme[/i]@Jul 28 2004, 11:12 PM [b] When are you going to stop blaming Moore for what's happening in Iraq? you've got his picture in your sig all over the place and next to a terrorist...what is that? a nice diversion? the guy's a friggin filmmaker that's all and a publically questionable one at that. I, like many Americans questioned what Bush was doing before that film came out. If Bush & Co. didn't get us into this crap, there wouldn't be a Moore film and there wouldn't be soldiers in Iraq feeling bad. I guess it's better to feel bad about a film than to be dead and brought home in a box. Moore did not put the soldiers there. [/b][/quote] Please....within the next 24-hours point out where I've stated/posted that Moore-on is to blame for Iraq/Afgahn/9/11/01. The clock is ticking. [/b][/quote] then why all the anti-Moore propaganda? the posts? this post

07-28-2004, 11:31 PM	#5
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[quote][i]Originally posted by R. Tyme+Jul 28 2004, 11:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (R. Tyme @ Jul 28 2004, 11:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by -Come Back to NY@Jul 28 2004, 11:20 PM [b] <!--QuoteBegin--R. Tyme[/i]@Jul 28 2004, 11:12 PM [b] When are you going to stop blaming Moore for what's happening in Iraq? you've got his picture in your sig all over the place and next to a terrorist...what is that? a nice diversion? the guy's a friggin filmmaker that's all and a publically questionable one at that. I, like many Americans questioned what Bush was doing before that film came out. If Bush & Co. didn't get us into this crap, there wouldn't be a Moore film and there wouldn't be soldiers in Iraq feeling bad. I guess it's better to feel bad about a film than to be dead and brought home in a box. Moore did not put the soldiers there. [/b][/quote] Please....within the next 24-hours point out where I've stated/posted that Moore-on is to blame for Iraq/Afgahn/9/11/01. The clock is ticking. [/b][/quote] then why all the anti-Moore propaganda? the posts? this post [/b][/quote] For the record, the Moore image in my signature has been the same for almost nine months. Further, my hate for Moore goes back to his days of Mother Jones (if you know anything about this guys history). Notice how fatass wimped out and did not go to Crawford tonight for his movie as he first stated. Then again, if you feel justified standing up for someone who said America was wrong for ousting the Taliban so be it.

07-29-2004, 12:23 AM	#6
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	What a crock of self-indulgent crap....I'm sure THIS article writer and the soldier involved don't have an agenda, or don't lean to the Right..... [quote][b]..........is "shocking and crushing soldiers" and making them feel "ashamed"...........the impact on morale is "devastating."...................He says they are particularly vulnerable to being hurt by a "vicious" film like Moore's..................abuse of the First Amendment................"Moore is hurting us worse than the enemy has,"..........................."I feel ... ashamed, like this was all a lie.".............................."the damage is done."......................."hurting us, hurting America, and today I can tell you he is hurting your soldiers."...................[/b][/quote] So, the U.S. Millitary, strongest Force to ever walk the face of the earth......is brought to it's knees by a fat-arse liberal's little propaganda film, eh? Whatever happend to "Sticks and Stones Can break my bones but WORDS will never hurt me"??? If this war is so justified, so vital to the US citizenry and so noble, WHY would ANY of our soldiers EVER doubt it just because of some liberal chub from Hollywierd?? If our soldiers wilt in the face of a fat blowhard questioning our leadership, and their goals and reasons for war, well........maybe we should get a wee bit tougher an Army, eh? Perhaps one not so sensative. Or is this article (written by righties) claiming that our soildiers are so stupid as to believe Moore's Liberal claims (since at least one of you has claimed that only someone who has had a labotomy would listen to or believe Moore.......) Great article CBTNY, got any more?

07-29-2004, 12:32 AM	#7
RichardSeymour Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 3,359	God forbid anyone should question policy. It's a good thing no one ever questioned why we were in Vietnam. Oh, wait. Moore is a firebrand. A lot of what he says is barely-supported hokum, with enough of it being harsh truth or reasonably backed assertion to ensure his continued popularity. He's the Anne Coulter of the left, only slightly less rabid. I havn't heard him making assertions like "conservatism is inherently evil" or "all conservatives are traitors" yet. But still, he's wacky. So whoop-de-d*mn-doo. Coulter. Moore. Call it a draw.

07-29-2004, 12:47 AM	#8
nickledefense Veteran Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 268	[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY+Jul 29 2004, 03:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Come Back to NY @ Jul 29 2004, 03:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by -R. Tyme@Jul 28 2004, 11:25 PM [b] [quote]Originally posted by -Come Back to NY@Jul 28 2004, 11:20 PM [b] <!--QuoteBegin--R. Tyme[/i]@Jul 28 2004, 11:12 PM [b] When are you going to stop blaming Moore for what's happening in Iraq? you've got his picture in your sig all over the place and next to a terrorist...what is that? a nice diversion? the guy's a friggin filmmaker that's all and a publically questionable one at that. I, like many Americans questioned what Bush was doing before that film came out. If Bush & Co. didn't get us into this crap, there wouldn't be a Moore film and there wouldn't be soldiers in Iraq feeling bad. I guess it's better to feel bad about a film than to be dead and brought home in a box. Moore did not put the soldiers there. [/b][/quote] Please....within the next 24-hours point out where I've stated/posted that Moore-on is to blame for Iraq/Afgahn/9/11/01. The clock is ticking. [/b][/quote] then why all the anti-Moore propaganda? the posts? this post [/b][/quote] For the record, the Moore image in my signature has been the same for almost nine months. Further, my hate for Moore goes back to his days of Mother Jones (if you know anything about this guys history). Notice how fatass wimped out and did not go to Crawford tonight for his movie as he first stated. Then again, if you feel justified standing up for someone who said America was wrong for ousting the Taliban so be it. [/b][/quote] Blaming Moore for demoralized troops is asine! Moore had nothing to do with American soldiers going to Iraq, and I STRONGLY suspect they may have been demoralized long before F-9/11 hit the theaters only one month ago. I get it. You hate Michael Moore. I'll put all the lies about WMDs and ties to bin Laden aside. If you really care about US Troops, you might want to pay a little more attention to the Bush administration's overall agenda. It was Cheney and Wolfowitz, after all, who thought it would be a sound idea to control the Middle East by invading Iraq, Syria and Iran, and that was before 9/11 even happened. Has it been worth it, all these lost lives for a geopolitical endeavor that failed? I'll say one thing about Michael Moore that you can't say about the Bush Administration . . . he has NO blood on his hands.

07-29-2004, 06:38 AM	#9
jetman67 Wants a Superbowl, Thats It!!! Hall Of Fame Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Somewhere Posts: 10,382	[quote][i]Originally posted by nickledefense[/i]@Jul 29 2004, 12:47 AM [b] Has it been worth it, all these lost lives for a geopolitical endeavor that failed? [/b][/quote] Its too soon to call Iraq a failure. It took us several years tohelp rebuild Japan and Germany. To call it a failure is premature.

07-29-2004, 10:39 AM	#10
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	i feel bad for these soldiers - this war was not needed and we arrived there on (at best) a grave mistake by the executive branch.

07-29-2004, 10:50 AM	#11
bman All League Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,935	The iraq war is a complete failure... peopl have died for no reason (other than US securing oil).. Iraq was not an imminent threat...They could have been dealt with differently... This will take another 10 years....l Bush "you are not GOD"...STop trying top play god.

07-29-2004, 11:42 AM	#12
jetman67 Wants a Superbowl, Thats It!!! Hall Of Fame Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Somewhere Posts: 10,382	[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Jul 29 2004, 10:39 AM [b] this war was not needed but it was fun to watch it on CNN [/b][/quote] I agree!!!! :lol: :lol:

07-29-2004, 02:14 PM	#13
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Jul 28 2004, 11:31 PM [b] Then again, if you feel justified standing up for someone who said America was wrong for ousting the Taliban so be it. [/b][/quote] i've said it before and ill say it again afghanistan is a s--thole there is probably more al_queda there than ever! they didn't rebuild anything... it is on the brink of chaos... people are still getting killed how did we really make the world so much safer by bombing the crap out of afghanistan one of the poorest nations in the world... it's the landmine center of civilization... and the sad part is we haven't even attempted to make it better we just moved on to Iraq... now most of it is controlled by "warlords" (think about that for a second. the land is controlled by warlords. That's some 5000 BC s--t right there.) it was a mistake not to finish the job in one front before starting another. the whole thing wasn't about american security, it was about american interests. it isn't getting any better, and it could get a whole lot worse... the soldiers have low morale but it's not all Michael Moore's fault. they have been through the system and if it took Michael Moore going through culture for them to realize the truth then they should feel bad. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out no one really has the same explanation why the war was waged... we just wanted to wage it so badly it didn't matter why... the official reason changed every month for a couple years. what is it now?

07-29-2004, 02:19 PM	#14
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[quote][i]Originally posted by jetman67+Jul 29 2004, 11:42 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (jetman67 @ Jul 29 2004, 11:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--bitonti[/i]@Jul 29 2004, 10:39 AM [b] this war was not needed but it was fun to watch it on CNN [/b][/quote] I agree!!!! :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote] one of my finest moments :lol: jetman didn't it made great TV??

07-29-2004, 02:50 PM	#15
Piper Hall Of Fame Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: L.I. NY (where the Jets used to be from) Posts: 13,197	[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Jul 29 2004, 10:39 AM [b] i feel bad for these soldiers - this war was not needed and we arrived there on (at best) a grave mistake by the executive branch. [/b][/quote] I disagree. I believe afganistan was needed, but the administration tried to fight a politially correct war by not going in with overwhelming forces.

07-29-2004, 03:06 PM	#16
latinlawyer Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,239	Actually you know what has demoralized troops...being promised that they would be switched out in 8-12 months and having their stay extended to 15-20 months. How would you feel if you were finally going to see your family after a 12 month tour of duty when POOF....you got orders to stay another 10 months....WHAT THE F? I would go ballistic.... I am no lib but I can understand why there is low morale and this moore movie is not even the tip of the iceberg. LL

07-29-2004, 05:08 PM	#17
jetman67 Wants a Superbowl, Thats It!!! Hall Of Fame Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Somewhere Posts: 10,382	[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti+Jul 29 2004, 02:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (bitonti @ Jul 29 2004, 02:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by -jetman67@Jul 29 2004, 11:42 AM [b] <!--QuoteBegin--bitonti[/i]@Jul 29 2004, 10:39 AM [b] this war was not needed but it was fun to watch it on CNN [/b][/quote] I agree!!!! :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote] one of my finest moments :lol: jetman didn't it made great TV?? [/b][/quote] Im sure CNN's execs enjoyed the war.