More from our liberal friends...great patriots! - Page 4

Section109Row15 · 11-10-2004, 12:31 PM

[quote][b]Section, D&E's are done even at 12 weeks, vaccuum aspiration is done prior to 12 weeks. It is not a gentle procedure for the "tissue." I am not being a sensationalist. It is a horrible procedure. You support abortion, why do details about the procedure bother you? You support late-term abortion as well.
[/b][/quote]

I support late-term abortions under appropriate circumstances like the mothers life being at risk or when the child is essentially dead inside the womb. That was the only time these procedures were performed, they were not used as a form of contraceptives. You guys one, it is now illegal, I hope you can live with yourselves when women begin to die so the baby might live.

The details about the procedure don't bother me, its the way you over-hype them and try to use it as justification rather than looking at the circumstances behind the procedure and how rare the procedure was performed. Now that it is illegal you shouldn't even bring up the subject, especially when you try to equate it with other abortions.

R. Tyme · 11-10-2004, 11:53 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Section109Row15[/i]@Nov 10 2004, 12:31 PM
[b] The details about the procedure don't bother me, its the way you over-hype them and try to use it as justification rather than looking at the circumstances behind the procedure and how rare the procedure was performed. Now that it is illegal you shouldn't even bring up the subject, especially when you try to equate it with other abortions. [/b][/quote]
No, some people will never look profoundly at the circumstances or issues behind-- they would rather portray women as whimsical murderers and sensationalize. They conveniently take women out of the abortion equation, ignore that it is she who provides the egg and nest... and moralize and preach to what is someone else's personal intimate decision.

I've been around anti-abortion adversaries a long long time...went to Catholic high school where an anti-abortion speaker came in showing graphic pictures of abortion. It didn't shake my stance then, won't shake it now.

btw, abortions are painful for the woman also-- some of you may not know this...even early stage abortion procedure is painful (d&c's) so I can't imagine women whimsically lalala whistling walking into their doctor's office when they get pregnant and keep doing that (because you know that's their birth control preference of choice according to some experts). This is not something you'd what to do, even if you are the dumbest female on earth...it's like shock therapy.

The answer to this long-standing controversy is education, education, education--
on human sexuality, birth control, physiology.

jets5ever · 11-11-2004, 08:57 AM

[i][QUOTE=Section109Row15,Nov 10 2004, 12:31 PM]
[/QUOTE]

I support late-term abortions under appropriate circumstances like the mothers life being at risk or when the child is essentially dead inside the womb. That was the only time these procedures were performed, they were not used as a form of contraceptives. You guys one, it is now illegal, I hope you can live with yourselves when women begin to die so the baby might live.

The details about the procedure don't bother me, its the way you over-hype them and try to use it as justification rather than looking at the circumstances behind the procedure and how rare the procedure was performed. Now that it is illegal you shouldn't even bring up the subject, especially when you try to equate it with other abortions. [/QUOTE][/i]

I had a long reply, but deleted it....

[b]R.Tyme[/b] - I appreciate the back and forth and don't want to alienate you for future posts. Obviously, we both have very, very strong opinions here. I, too, have done a ton of research on this subject and know an awful lot about it (and an awful lot about the common misconceptions). You seem like a nice person, and I'd enjoy chatting about other topics going forward without any baggage hanging over from this discussion. It's a free country, and you and I simply disagree passionately....

We've obviously hit a point now, from which constructive discussion is nearly impossible. I don't want to see this degenerate into an attack-fest, that does no one any good and I'd rather not be thought of in a negative light. I apologize if the tone of some of my posts was too combative - again, try to imagine how passionate you are about choice, and invert it - that's likely the only way you could understand how passionate I am about being pro-life.

[b]Section [/b]- you know you're my boy. This is one topic that I guess we'll just have to leave out there "unresolved." (Well, it's not like we "resolve" other issues!) I appreciate your input and value your opinion. We are just simply too far apart on this issue to really have any kind of constructive discussion.

R. Tyme · 11-11-2004, 11:40 AM

[quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Nov 11 2004, 08:57 AM
[b] [b]R.Tyme[/b] - I appreciate the back and forth and don't want to alienate you for future posts. Obviously, we both have very, very strong opinions here. I, too, have done a ton of research on this subject and know an awful lot about it (and an awful lot about the common misconceptions). You seem like a nice person, and I'd enjoy chatting about other topics going forward without any baggage hanging over from this discussion. It's a free country, and you and I simply disagree passionately....

We've obviously hit a point now, from which constructive discussion is nearly impossible. I don't want to see this degenerate into an attack-fest, that does no one any good and I'd rather not be thought of in a negative light. I apologize if the tone of some of my posts was too combative - again, try to imagine how passionate you are about choice, and invert it - that's likely the only way you could understand how passionate I am about being pro-life.

[/b][/quote]
Agree. That is fine with me. I understand there is passion on both sides. And I understand coming into this forum there are a lot of hot topics and there's going to be disagreements. People want to present their platform.

I don't hold grudges, ask Green Jets & Ham and Savage69 ;) :)

Enrique Pallazzo · 11-11-2004, 11:49 AM

[quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Nov 11 2004, 09:57 AM
[b] This is one topic that I guess we'll just have to leave out there "unresolved." [/b][/quote]
LOL! I've been lurking and just reading knowing that nothing really good would come out of this one as tempted as I was to post. lol

Green Jets & Ham · 11-11-2004, 12:21 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by R. Tyme[/i]@Nov 10 2004, 11:53 PM
[b] I've been around anti-abortion adversaries a long long time...went to Catholic high school where an anti-abortion speaker came in showing graphic pictures of abortion. It didn't shake my stance then, won't shake it now. [/b][/quote]
That is sad

Someone showed you graphic pictures, and I have to assume even of late term abortions, and it didn't shake your position in the least?

I confess that I was once very ambivilent about abortion, but seeing those types of graphics shook me to the core

They are not doctored photos or propoganda ... they are genuine ... and how can they not break your heart?

Let's call it what it is ... it's inhumane ... it's barbaric ... it's literally watching babies being torn to pieces ... and there is no man on earth who can convince me the babies I see in those late term photos feel nothing as they are being savaged

AT BEST it can be defined as a necessary evil ... and that's playing devils advocate

Yes, I too have seen those photos ... apparently we had quite a different reaction

I'm not challenging your position on abortion ... you are entitled to your opinion ... BUT MAN ... I seriously have to wonder how someone can so casually dismiss those photos

I haven't seen them in years, but I am still haunted by the memory

It didn't make me a committed warrior for the pro life movement ... but if anything I am more ashamed of that than proud ... and there's no way I could have walked away from those photos eager to fight for the pro abortion cause

Seeing those pictures had no effect on you ... none whatsoever? :huh:

R. Tyme · 11-11-2004, 12:46 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham[/i]@Nov 11 2004, 12:21 PM
[b] That is sad

Someone showed you graphic pictures, and I have to assume even of late term abortions, and it didn't shake your position in the least?

I confess that I was once very ambivilent about abortion, but seeing those types of graphics shook me to the core

They are not doctored photos or propoganda ... they are genuine ... and how can they not break your heart?

Let's call it what it is ... it's inhumane ... it's barbaric ... it's literally watching babies being torn to pieces ... and there is no man on earth who can convince me the babies I see in those late term photos feel nothing as they are being savaged

AT BEST it can be defined as a necessary evil ... and that's playing devils advocate

Yes, I too have see those photos ... apparently we had quite a different reaction

I'm not challenging your position on abortion ... you are entitled to your opinion ... BUT MAN ... I seriously have to wonder how someone can so casually dismiss those photos

I haven't seen them in years, but I am still haunted by the memory

It didn't make me a committed warrior for the pro life movement ... but if anything I am more ashamed of that than proud ... and there's no way I could have walked away from those photos eager to fight for the pro abortion cause

Seeing those pictures had no effect on you ... none whatsoever? :huh: [/b][/quote]
GJ&H of course they bothered me. I'm not going to re-hash everything I already posted here. But I'll repeat, I am not for late-term abortions.

jets5ever · 11-11-2004, 12:46 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by R. Tyme+Nov 11 2004, 11:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (R. Tyme @ Nov 11 2004, 11:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-jets5ever[/i]@Nov 11 2004, 08:57 AM
[b] [b]R.Tyme[/b] - I appreciate the back and forth and don't want to alienate you for future posts. Obviously, we both have very, very strong opinions here. I, too, have done a ton of research on this subject and know an awful lot about it (and an awful lot about the common misconceptions). You seem like a nice person, and I'd enjoy chatting about other topics going forward without any baggage hanging over from this discussion. It's a free country, and you and I simply disagree passionately....

We've obviously hit a point now, from which constructive discussion is nearly impossible. I don't want to see this degenerate into an attack-fest, that does no one any good and I'd rather not be thought of in a negative light. I apologize if the tone of some of my posts was too combative - again, try to imagine how passionate you are about choice, and invert it - that's likely the only way you could understand how passionate I am about being pro-life.

[/b][/quote]
Agree. That is fine with me. I understand there is passion on both sides. And I understand coming into this forum there are a lot of hot topics and there's going to be disagreements. People want to present their platform.

I don't hold grudges, ask Green Jets & Ham and Savage69 ;) :) [/b][/quote]
Cool, sounds good. :D

Green Jets & Ham · 11-11-2004, 01:00 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by R. Tyme[/i]@Nov 11 2004, 11:40 AM
[b] I don't hold grudges, ask Green Jets & Ham and Savage69 ;) :) [/b][/quote]
I'll vouch for that

RT, I wanna kiss you ... now come over here and gimmie a kiss!! :D

R. Tyme · 11-11-2004, 01:34 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham+Nov 11 2004, 01:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Green Jets & Ham @ Nov 11 2004, 01:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-R. Tyme[/i]@Nov 11 2004, 11:40 AM
[b] I don't hold grudges, ask Green Jets & Ham and Savage69 ;) :) [/b][/quote]
I'll vouch for that

RT, I wanna kiss you ... now come over here and gimmie a kiss!! :D [/b][/quote]
:lol: :lol: just call me Suzy!

that whole Namath thread got crazy

11-10-2004, 12:31 PM	#61
Section109Row15 Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 3,406	[quote][b]Section, D&E's are done even at 12 weeks, vaccuum aspiration is done prior to 12 weeks. It is not a gentle procedure for the "tissue." I am not being a sensationalist. It is a horrible procedure. You support abortion, why do details about the procedure bother you? You support late-term abortion as well. [/b][/quote] I support late-term abortions under appropriate circumstances like the mothers life being at risk or when the child is essentially dead inside the womb. That was the only time these procedures were performed, they were not used as a form of contraceptives. You guys one, it is now illegal, I hope you can live with yourselves when women begin to die so the baby might live. The details about the procedure don't bother me, its the way you over-hype them and try to use it as justification rather than looking at the circumstances behind the procedure and how rare the procedure was performed. Now that it is illegal you shouldn't even bring up the subject, especially when you try to equate it with other abortions.

11-10-2004, 11:53 PM	#62
R. Tyme totally disgusted with Jets' dis-organization Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 3,476	[quote][i]Originally posted by Section109Row15[/i]@Nov 10 2004, 12:31 PM [b] The details about the procedure don't bother me, its the way you over-hype them and try to use it as justification rather than looking at the circumstances behind the procedure and how rare the procedure was performed. Now that it is illegal you shouldn't even bring up the subject, especially when you try to equate it with other abortions. [/b][/quote] No, some people will never look profoundly at the circumstances or issues behind-- they would rather portray women as whimsical murderers and sensationalize. They conveniently take women out of the abortion equation, ignore that it is she who provides the egg and nest... and moralize and preach to what is someone else's personal intimate decision. I've been around anti-abortion adversaries a long long time...went to Catholic high school where an anti-abortion speaker came in showing graphic pictures of abortion. It didn't shake my stance then, won't shake it now. btw, abortions are painful for the woman also-- some of you may not know this...even early stage abortion procedure is painful (d&c's) so I can't imagine women whimsically lalala whistling walking into their doctor's office when they get pregnant and keep doing that (because you know that's their birth control preference of choice according to some experts). This is not something you'd what to do, even if you are the dumbest female on earth...it's like shock therapy. The answer to this long-standing controversy is education, education, education-- on human sexuality, birth control, physiology.

11-11-2004, 08:57 AM	#63
jets5ever Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 11,692	[i][QUOTE=Section109Row15,Nov 10 2004, 12:31 PM] [/QUOTE] I support late-term abortions under appropriate circumstances like the mothers life being at risk or when the child is essentially dead inside the womb. That was the only time these procedures were performed, they were not used as a form of contraceptives. You guys one, it is now illegal, I hope you can live with yourselves when women begin to die so the baby might live. The details about the procedure don't bother me, its the way you over-hype them and try to use it as justification rather than looking at the circumstances behind the procedure and how rare the procedure was performed. Now that it is illegal you shouldn't even bring up the subject, especially when you try to equate it with other abortions. [/QUOTE][/i] I had a long reply, but deleted it.... [b]R.Tyme[/b] - I appreciate the back and forth and don't want to alienate you for future posts. Obviously, we both have very, very strong opinions here. I, too, have done a ton of research on this subject and know an awful lot about it (and an awful lot about the common misconceptions). You seem like a nice person, and I'd enjoy chatting about other topics going forward without any baggage hanging over from this discussion. It's a free country, and you and I simply disagree passionately.... We've obviously hit a point now, from which constructive discussion is nearly impossible. I don't want to see this degenerate into an attack-fest, that does no one any good and I'd rather not be thought of in a negative light. I apologize if the tone of some of my posts was too combative - again, try to imagine how passionate you are about choice, and invert it - that's likely the only way you could understand how passionate I am about being pro-life. [b]Section [/b]- you know you're my boy. This is one topic that I guess we'll just have to leave out there "unresolved." (Well, it's not like we "resolve" other issues!) I appreciate your input and value your opinion. We are just simply too far apart on this issue to really have any kind of constructive discussion.

11-11-2004, 11:40 AM	#64
R. Tyme totally disgusted with Jets' dis-organization Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 3,476	[quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Nov 11 2004, 08:57 AM [b] [b]R.Tyme[/b] - I appreciate the back and forth and don't want to alienate you for future posts. Obviously, we both have very, very strong opinions here. I, too, have done a ton of research on this subject and know an awful lot about it (and an awful lot about the common misconceptions). You seem like a nice person, and I'd enjoy chatting about other topics going forward without any baggage hanging over from this discussion. It's a free country, and you and I simply disagree passionately.... We've obviously hit a point now, from which constructive discussion is nearly impossible. I don't want to see this degenerate into an attack-fest, that does no one any good and I'd rather not be thought of in a negative light. I apologize if the tone of some of my posts was too combative - again, try to imagine how passionate you are about choice, and invert it - that's likely the only way you could understand how passionate I am about being pro-life. [/b][/quote] Agree. That is fine with me. I understand there is passion on both sides. And I understand coming into this forum there are a lot of hot topics and there's going to be disagreements. People want to present their platform. I don't hold grudges, ask Green Jets & Ham and Savage69 ;) :)

11-11-2004, 11:49 AM	#65
Enrique Pallazzo All Pro Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,631	[quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Nov 11 2004, 09:57 AM [b] This is one topic that I guess we'll just have to leave out there "unresolved." [/b][/quote] LOL! I've been lurking and just reading knowing that nothing really good would come out of this one as tempted as I was to post. lol

11-11-2004, 12:21 PM	#66
Green Jets & Ham Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 41,588	[quote][i]Originally posted by R. Tyme[/i]@Nov 10 2004, 11:53 PM [b] I've been around anti-abortion adversaries a long long time...went to Catholic high school where an anti-abortion speaker came in showing graphic pictures of abortion. It didn't shake my stance then, won't shake it now. [/b][/quote] That is sad Someone showed you graphic pictures, and I have to assume even of late term abortions, and it didn't shake your position in the least? I confess that I was once very ambivilent about abortion, but seeing those types of graphics shook me to the core They are not doctored photos or propoganda ... they are genuine ... and how can they not break your heart? Let's call it what it is ... it's inhumane ... it's barbaric ... it's literally watching babies being torn to pieces ... and there is no man on earth who can convince me the babies I see in those late term photos feel nothing as they are being savaged AT BEST it can be defined as a necessary evil ... and that's playing devils advocate Yes, I too have seen those photos ... apparently we had quite a different reaction I'm not challenging your position on abortion ... you are entitled to your opinion ... BUT MAN ... I seriously have to wonder how someone can so casually dismiss those photos I haven't seen them in years, but I am still haunted by the memory It didn't make me a committed warrior for the pro life movement ... but if anything I am more ashamed of that than proud ... and there's no way I could have walked away from those photos eager to fight for the pro abortion cause Seeing those pictures had no effect on you ... none whatsoever? :huh:

11-11-2004, 12:46 PM	#67
R. Tyme totally disgusted with Jets' dis-organization Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 3,476	[quote][i]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham[/i]@Nov 11 2004, 12:21 PM [b] That is sad Someone showed you graphic pictures, and I have to assume even of late term abortions, and it didn't shake your position in the least? I confess that I was once very ambivilent about abortion, but seeing those types of graphics shook me to the core They are not doctored photos or propoganda ... they are genuine ... and how can they not break your heart? Let's call it what it is ... it's inhumane ... it's barbaric ... it's literally watching babies being torn to pieces ... and there is no man on earth who can convince me the babies I see in those late term photos feel nothing as they are being savaged AT BEST it can be defined as a necessary evil ... and that's playing devils advocate Yes, I too have see those photos ... apparently we had quite a different reaction I'm not challenging your position on abortion ... you are entitled to your opinion ... BUT MAN ... I seriously have to wonder how someone can so casually dismiss those photos I haven't seen them in years, but I am still haunted by the memory It didn't make me a committed warrior for the pro life movement ... but if anything I am more ashamed of that than proud ... and there's no way I could have walked away from those photos eager to fight for the pro abortion cause Seeing those pictures had no effect on you ... none whatsoever? :huh: [/b][/quote] GJ&H of course they bothered me. I'm not going to re-hash everything I already posted here. But I'll repeat, I am not for late-term abortions.

11-11-2004, 01:00 PM	#69
Green Jets & Ham Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 41,588	[quote][i]Originally posted by R. Tyme[/i]@Nov 11 2004, 11:40 AM [b] I don't hold grudges, ask Green Jets & Ham and Savage69 ;) :) [/b][/quote] I'll vouch for that RT, I wanna kiss you ... now come over here and gimmie a kiss!! :D

11-11-2004, 01:34 PM	#70
R. Tyme totally disgusted with Jets' dis-organization Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 3,476	[quote][i]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham+Nov 11 2004, 01:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Green Jets & Ham @ Nov 11 2004, 01:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-R. Tyme[/i]@Nov 11 2004, 11:40 AM [b] I don't hold grudges, ask Green Jets & Ham and Savage69 ;) :) [/b][/quote] I'll vouch for that RT, I wanna kiss you ... now come over here and gimmie a kiss!! :D [/b][/quote] :lol: :lol: just call me Suzy! that whole Namath thread got crazy