Religion in Government: Your Personal View?

Darkstar Rising · 11-09-2004, 03:41 PM

How much religion do you want in your American Government. Sorry the choices are somewhat vague, but they kind of have to be for this question.

Make a choice, then elaborate as to YOUR PERSONAL VIEW as the best mix of Religion and Govt. possible.

JetFanTransplant · 11-09-2004, 03:50 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Darkstar Rising[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 03:41 PM
[b] How much religion do you want in your American Government. Sorry the choices are somewhat vague, but they kind of have to be for this question.

Make a choice, then elaborate as to YOUR PERSONAL VIEW as the best mix of Religion and Govt. possible. [/b][/quote]
I have no problem with religion in Govt.

I have serious problems with a "Government Religion"

ItstheLOOP · 11-09-2004, 04:00 PM

Remember seperation of Church and State was established to prevent religios persecution. It protects the church from the state not the other way around.

Green Jets & Ham · 11-09-2004, 04:04 PM

I think religious folks should not be expected to check their core principals at the door ... and like it or not, their core principals are often borne of their faith

Now I'll fight to the death to prevent any man from imposing a state sponsered religion on any American ... but a mans core principals, EVEN BORNE OF FAITH, are what molds his philosophy of Government and nearly all aspects of his life

In other words, if a man believes marriage is a union between a man and a woman, and his core beliefs {i.e. religion} have led him to this conclusion, he has every right, and even a respsonsibility, to utilize the democratic process to enact his principals into law

In short, I do not believe the seperation of church and state means the seperation of man and his GOD ... nor do I believe the founding fathers ever conceived of such folly

R. Tyme · 11-09-2004, 04:31 PM

All this talk of morals and Christianity in this election. Is that saying that other religions don't have morals? Has any other religious group spoken out about this yet? curious.

Enrique Pallazzo · 11-09-2004, 04:36 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Darkstar Rising[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 04:41 PM
[b] How much religion do you want in your American Government. Sorry the choices are somewhat vague, but they kind of have to be for this question.

Make a choice, then elaborate as to YOUR PERSONAL VIEW as the best mix of Religion and Govt. possible. [/b][/quote]
I didn't really see my sort of answer...
I just think it's impossible for someone who is faith based (whatEVER faith that is) to separate what he/she feels is morally right from his/her decisionmaking in government.

chiefst2000 · 11-09-2004, 04:56 PM

Religion in govt should be restricted but it should not be taken overboard. A cross in a state flag is fine as is the 10 comandments in a courthouse. That said prayer in public schools should be prohibited. Dont mess with the pledge!

bman · 11-09-2004, 05:01 PM

i'm all for the us being a budhist country!

Savage69 · 11-09-2004, 05:26 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by R. Tyme[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 04:31 PM
[b] All this talk of morals and Christianity in this election. Is that saying that other religions don't have morals? Has any other religious group spoken out about this yet? curious. [/b][/quote]
RT I know I'm the last Guy you like hearing from but here's my thoughts!
Of course there's Morals in just about every religion! I'm sure Most Muslims
have strong Moral Values..But Christianity is the one that's always attacked!
All the Movies that make Fun of Religion are Movies mocking Christianity! Do
you think they would make a Negative movie in Hollywood that mocked Jews
or Muslims?? We no longer have Christmas Break it's Holiday Break! I could
go further but you get the Idea..The extreme Religious part of the Republican
party is in the Minority! But many make them out to be worse than Suicide
Bombers..Even people on this Board have said they side with the Bombers
over devout Christians.. <_<

Green Jets & Ham · 11-09-2004, 05:32 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by R. Tyme[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 04:31 PM
[b] All this talk of morals and Christianity in this election. Is that saying that other religions don't have morals? Has any other religious group spoken out about this yet? curious. [/b][/quote]
The Wickas have yet to weigh-in, but America awaits their pronouncement with beaded breath :lol:

Just kidding RT

I think every religion views their teachings as moral truth ... but I am not offended if an Orthodox Jew views the Torah as moral truth anymore than he should be offended by my view of Christianity

What we need in this country is more religious tolerance, not less

There was a time in this nation when folks weren't running to court every time they witnessed a manger at Christmas ... or some vile display of the 10 Commandments outside of some courthouse ... and that was actually in my lifetime

When did we become so darn intolerant of religion?

If you ask me, the ACLU and likeminded groups have done more to cause a religious divide in America than a Gazillion Jerry Falewell's

Used to be a time when we RESPECTED one anothers religious differences ... I am old enough to remember those days, and I'm not that old so it wasn't too long ago ... but somewhere along the line the left decided to drag Christians into court each time they mention the word GOD in public, and to a lesser extent persecute Orthodox Jews ... and IMO that incited a religious backlash

We were far better off when we simply repsected one another ... when we weren't hellbent on tormenting people of faith ... but that's just my opinion

Let me offer one example, and while this may seem small to you it was a BIG DEAL to people of faith

When the ACLU made such a federal case out of removing the 10 Commandments from that courthouse in the middle of nowhere and it recieved such media attention ... eventually the judge who refused to remove the monument was himself removed from the bench

What was the point of all that?

Why was that necessary?

Why was it important to persecute that man and make him chose between his GOD and his Job?

I'm not asking for the legal analysis ... I'm asking you as a human-being ... why was that necessary?

Cause that's the kind of religious intolerance I'm talking about ... the kind that brings forth a religious backlash ... so was it really worth it?

Section109Row15 · 11-09-2004, 05:32 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by savage69+Nov 9 2004, 07:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (savage69 @ Nov 9 2004, 07:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-R. Tyme[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 04:31 PM
[b] All this talk of morals and Christianity in this election. Is that saying that other religions don't have morals? Has any other religious group spoken out about this yet? curious. [/b][/quote]
RT I know I'm the last Guy you like hearing from but here's my thoughts!
Of course there's Morals in just about every religion! I'm sure Most Muslims
have strong Moral Values..But Christianity is the one that's always attacked!
All the Movies that make Fun of Religion are Movies mocking Christianity! Do
you think they would make a Negative movie in Hollywood that mocked Jews
or Muslims?? We no longer have Christmas Break it's Holiday Break! I could
go further but you get the Idea..The extreme Religious part of the Republican
party is in the Minority! But many make them out to be worse than Suicide
Bombers..Even people on this Board have said they side with the Bombers
over devout Christians.. <_< [/b][/quote]
Maybe because that minority you talk about is the ones who are bombing abortion clinics, saying that gays caused 9/11, saying God hates fags, often times they are also overtly racist, many of them are very poorly educated. Thats not a stereotype it is a fact. We are not talking about normal church going folks here, we are talking about radical christianity that dance with snakes and such. People who liken Bush to Jesus, people who preach hatred from the pulpit.

Savage69 · 11-09-2004, 05:40 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Section109Row15+Nov 9 2004, 05:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Section109Row15 @ Nov 9 2004, 05:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by savage69@Nov 9 2004, 07:26 PM
[b] <!--QuoteBegin-R. Tyme[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 04:31 PM
[b] All this talk of morals and Christianity in this election. Is that saying that other religions don't have morals? Has any other religious group spoken out about this yet? curious. [/b][/quote]
RT I know I'm the last Guy you like hearing from but here's my thoughts!
Of course there's Morals in just about every religion! I'm sure Most Muslims
have strong Moral Values..But Christianity is the one that's always attacked!
All the Movies that make Fun of Religion are Movies mocking Christianity! Do
you think they would make a Negative movie in Hollywood that mocked Jews
or Muslims?? We no longer have Christmas Break it's Holiday Break! I could
go further but you get the Idea..The extreme Religious part of the Republican
party is in the Minority! But many make them out to be worse than Suicide
Bombers..Even people on this Board have said they side with the Bombers
over devout Christians.. <_< [/b][/quote]
Maybe because that minority you talk about is the ones who are bombing abortion clinics, saying that gays caused 9/11, saying God hates fags, often times they are also overtly racist, many of them are very poorly educated. Thats not a stereotype it is a fact. We are not talking about normal church going folks here, we are talking about radical christianity that dance with snakes and such. People who liken Bush to Jesus, people who preach hatred from the pulpit. [/b][/quote]
109 any idiot that bombs a abortion Clinic should be shot! To me there
no different then terrorists! A Women once said ;If men got pregnant
it would not only be Legal on demand but considered a Sacrament!!
Bush is not with those types that you mention..Who are what most of
us call the Loony Right..The big Difference is the Loony Left runs the
Dems and most of you can't either see it..Or are it!! :rolleyes:

Green Jets & Ham · 11-09-2004, 06:00 PM

Bottom Line

I am Catholic, but if one of my Jewish neighbors hangs a Manorah on his door my first response is ...

[i]Hey Jack, Happy Hanuhka!![/i] :D

I'm not petrified that my little nephew might see a Manorah!! :o

Know why?

Cause I respect my neigbors religious beliefs and my nephew should learn to do the same

We are a better nation when we respect one anothers religious differences, not worse

Which brings me to the popular culture .....

Savage is right ... hollywoods assault on Chrsitians is the most vile example of religious bigotry I have ever seen ... it should be a national outrage ... and in many ways it is, but you only realize that on election day cause the media is in bed with the hollywood elites on this issue, so they are not gonna hold them accountable for their religious bigotry

Mark my words, after this election you can expect a slew of films coming out of hollywood that portrays people of faith {and mostly Christians} as homicidal maniacs and just the worst kind of lunatics you ever want to encounter

It's coming ... BET THE RANCH ON IT

They will condemn The Passion of the Christ like nothing you have ever seen ... screaming from the rooftops ... but these same folks will bring forth a slew of films portraying Jesus as a degenerate and people of faith as the most vile creatures crawling on the planet

MARK IT DOWN ... over the next four years you will see hollywood on an absolute mission to paint people of faith in the most negative light imaginable ... with the mainstream media cheering them on all the way ... you heard it here first

Darkstar Rising · 11-09-2004, 06:37 PM

For those who feel religious objects (ten commandements monument, cross in court or on flag) are acceptable:

Do you feel the same if the object is from another religion? For example, the Muslim community in Detroit wan'ts a star and crecent moon monument outside their local courthouse. Pick your own example.

The same can be asked about holidays and such. Should public land (i.e. town/stet/federal) be permitted to have a Ramadan display during that time, as well as the traditional Manger scene at Christmas. Should Winter break be called Haunaka break or Quanza Break depening on the area involved? Would you, if you lived in that area, accept that as well?

Of course you won't be offended by symbols of your OWN faith and beliefs in public life and on public land. After all, it's YOUR fiath being honored and promoted. But are you consistent?

Green Jets & Ham · 11-09-2004, 06:49 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Darkstar Rising[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 06:37 PM
[b] For those who feel religious objects (ten commandements monument, cross in court or on flag) are acceptable:

Do you feel the same if the object is from another religion? For example, the Muslim community in Detroit wan'ts a star and crecent moon monument outside their local courthouse. Pick your own example.

The same can be asked about holidays and such. Should public land (i.e. town/stet/federal) be permitted to have a Ramadan display during that time, as well as the traditional Manger scene at Christmas. Should Winter break be called Haunaka break or Quanza Break depening on the area involved? Would you, if you lived in that area, accept that as well?

Of course you won't be offended by symbols of your OWN faith and beliefs in public life and on public land. After all, it's YOUR fiath being honored and promoted. But are you consistent? [/b][/quote]
WHO CARES!!!!!

If it's a Muslim community, let them put up Muslim displays

If it's a Jewish community, ditto

If it's a Hindu community, ditto

And if it's a mixed community, let everyone freely display their symbols as they see fit

Seriously, who cares ... when did we become so damn sensitive in this country?

Why should folks have to look over their shoulder when displaying their symbols of faith, to make sure the ACLU isn't watching? :ph34r:

Let's stop making people feel like criminals for openly displaying symbols of their faith ... it's an absolute joke

Darkstar Rising · 11-09-2004, 06:56 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham+Nov 9 2004, 06:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Green Jets & Ham @ Nov 9 2004, 06:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Darkstar Rising[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 06:37 PM
[b] For those who feel religious objects (ten commandements monument, cross in court or on flag) are acceptable:

Do you feel the same if the object is from another religion? For example, the Muslim community in Detroit wan'ts a star and crecent moon monument outside their local courthouse. Pick your own example.

The same can be asked about holidays and such. Should public land (i.e. town/stet/federal) be permitted to have a Ramadan display during that time, as well as the traditional Manger scene at Christmas. Should Winter break be called Haunaka break or Quanza Break depening on the area involved? Would you, if you lived in that area, accept that as well?

Of course you won't be offended by symbols of your OWN faith and beliefs in public life and on public land. After all, it's YOUR fiath being honored and promoted. But are you consistent? [/b][/quote]
WHO CARES!!!!!

If it's a Muslim community, let them put up Muslim displays

If it's a Jewish community, ditto

If it's a Hindu community, ditto

And if it's a mixed community, let everyone freely display their symbols as they see fit

Seriously, who cares ... when did we become so damn sensitive in this country?

Why should folks have to look over their shoulder when displaying their symbols of faith, to make sure the ACLU isn't watching? :ph34r:

Let's stop making people feel like criminals for openly displaying symbols of their faith ... it's an absolute joke [/b][/quote]
Obviously, alot of people care, hence the current atmosphere......duh!

By the way, we are not talking about displays on PRIVATE land. How anyone could object to that I will never understand. I am speaking specifically of PUBLIC displays and PUBLIC endorcements.

There is a big difference in theory between a Cross in the front Yard of YOUR house and a Cross in the front yard of the Courthouse.

Wouldn't you say?

Green Jets & Ham · 11-09-2004, 07:23 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Darkstar Rising[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 06:56 PM
[b] Obviously, alot of people care, hence the current atmosphere......duh!

By the way, we are not talking about displays on PRIVATE land. How anyone could object to that I will never understand. I am speaking specifically of PUBLIC displays and PUBLIC endorcements.

There is a big difference in theory between a Cross in the front Yard of YOUR house and a Cross in the front yard of the Courthouse.

Wouldn't you say? [/b][/quote]
Look man, I'm telling you how I feel ... for better or worse

I don't care if some judge decides to hang a Manorah over his head ... especially during the Jewish holidays ... cause I RESPECT that mans right to his own beliefs, and even his desire to {dare I say it} make an open display of his beliefs

And lastly, I do not believe this is a big disagreement in the USA ... I believe the overwhelming majority of Americans are equally as tolerant of other religions ... IMO it is a small group of elites who make a federal case out of this issue, and that's what pisses the majority off

But that is JMO

Section109Row15 · 11-09-2004, 07:39 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham+Nov 9 2004, 09:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Green Jets & Ham @ Nov 9 2004, 09:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Darkstar Rising[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 06:56 PM
[b] Obviously, alot of people care, hence the current atmosphere......duh!

By the way, we are not talking about displays on PRIVATE land. How anyone could object to that I will never understand. I am speaking specifically of PUBLIC displays and PUBLIC endorcements.

There is a big difference in theory between a Cross in the front Yard of YOUR house and a Cross in the front yard of the Courthouse.

Wouldn't you say? [/b][/quote]
Look man, I'm telling you how I feel ... for better or worse

I don't care if some judge decides to hang a Manorah over his head ... especially during the Jewish holidays ... cause I RESPECT that mans right to his own beliefs, and even his desire to {dare I say it} make an open display of his beliefs

And lastly, I do not believe this is a big disagreement in the USA ... I believe the overwhelming majority of Americans are equally as tolerant of other religions ... IMO it is a small group of elites who make a federal case out of this issue, and that's what pisses the majority off

But that is JMO [/b][/quote]
I'm sure.

What percentage of Americans would feel fine sitting next to a Muslim on an airplane who is reading from the Koran and wearing traditional clothing?

R. Tyme · 11-09-2004, 07:42 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by savage69[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 05:26 PM
[b] RT I know I'm the last Guy you like hearing from but here's my thoughts!
[/b][/quote]
Oh that is not true Savage! I understand where you're coming from, I'm not mad with you at all :) I was just wondering if any other religion spoke up about all the morals=christianity talk in the elections.

Darkstar Rising · 11-09-2004, 07:45 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 07:23 PM
[b] Look man, I'm telling you how I feel ... for better or worse

I don't care if some judge decides to hang a Manorah over his head ... especially during the Jewish holidays ... cause I RESPECT that mans right to his own beliefs, and even his desire to {dare I say it} make an open display of his beliefs

And lastly, I do not believe this is a big disagreement in the USA ... I believe the overwhelming majority of Americans are equally as tolerant of other religions ... IMO it is a small group of elites who make a federal case out of this issue, and that's what pisses the majority off

But that is JMO [/b][/quote]
Oh I KNOW you're telling people how you feel Ham. You are LOUD and CLEAR in that aspect of your postings in this forum.

Yet, oddly, when you are questioned for clarification on those LOUD and CLEAR positions, you suddenly act as if it is beneath you or somehow offends you to respond.

Of course, that is your right as well. I now fully understand your claimed position. Consider my questioning of you finished on this issue.

View Poll Results: How Much Religion is Acceptable in Your Government?
State Sponsored and Supported Religion (Christianity).	0	0%
No limitations on Religion or Religious Acticivity in Govt. (but but NO actual state sponsored Religion).	7	38.89%
Minor Limitations on Religion in Govt.	0	0%
Moderate Limitations on Religion in Govt.	3	16.67%
Severe Limitations on Religion in Govt.	2	11.11%
NO Religious Activity related to Govt.	6	33.33%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

11-09-2004, 03:41 PM	#1
Darkstar Rising Practice Squad Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 48	How much religion do you want in your American Government. Sorry the choices are somewhat vague, but they kind of have to be for this question. Make a choice, then elaborate as to YOUR PERSONAL VIEW as the best mix of Religion and Govt. possible.

11-09-2004, 03:50 PM	#2
JetFanTransplant Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: On some beach... somewhere... Posts: 3,735	[quote][i]Originally posted by Darkstar Rising[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 03:41 PM [b] How much religion do you want in your American Government. Sorry the choices are somewhat vague, but they kind of have to be for this question. Make a choice, then elaborate as to YOUR PERSONAL VIEW as the best mix of Religion and Govt. possible. [/b][/quote] I have no problem with religion in Govt. I have serious problems with a "Government Religion"

11-09-2004, 04:00 PM	#3
ItstheLOOP Rookie Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 83	Remember seperation of Church and State was established to prevent religios persecution. It protects the church from the state not the other way around.

11-09-2004, 04:04 PM	#4
Green Jets & Ham Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 41,588	I think religious folks should not be expected to check their core principals at the door ... and like it or not, their core principals are often borne of their faith Now I'll fight to the death to prevent any man from imposing a state sponsered religion on any American ... but a mans core principals, EVEN BORNE OF FAITH, are what molds his philosophy of Government and nearly all aspects of his life In other words, if a man believes marriage is a union between a man and a woman, and his core beliefs {i.e. religion} have led him to this conclusion, he has every right, and even a respsonsibility, to utilize the democratic process to enact his principals into law In short, I do not believe the seperation of church and state means the seperation of man and his GOD ... nor do I believe the founding fathers ever conceived of such folly

11-09-2004, 04:31 PM	#5
R. Tyme totally disgusted with Jets' dis-organization Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 3,476	All this talk of morals and Christianity in this election. Is that saying that other religions don't have morals? Has any other religious group spoken out about this yet? curious.

11-09-2004, 04:36 PM	#6
Enrique Pallazzo All Pro Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,631	[quote][i]Originally posted by Darkstar Rising[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 04:41 PM [b] How much religion do you want in your American Government. Sorry the choices are somewhat vague, but they kind of have to be for this question. Make a choice, then elaborate as to YOUR PERSONAL VIEW as the best mix of Religion and Govt. possible. [/b][/quote] I didn't really see my sort of answer... I just think it's impossible for someone who is faith based (whatEVER faith that is) to separate what he/she feels is morally right from his/her decisionmaking in government.

11-09-2004, 04:56 PM	#7
chiefst2000 Champion of Common Sense All Pro Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,836	Religion in govt should be restricted but it should not be taken overboard. A cross in a state flag is fine as is the 10 comandments in a courthouse. That said prayer in public schools should be prohibited. Dont mess with the pledge!

11-09-2004, 05:01 PM	#8
bman All League Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 4,936	i'm all for the us being a budhist country!

11-09-2004, 05:26 PM	#9
Savage69 Jets Insider VIP Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 39,294	[quote][i]Originally posted by R. Tyme[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 04:31 PM [b] All this talk of morals and Christianity in this election. Is that saying that other religions don't have morals? Has any other religious group spoken out about this yet? curious. [/b][/quote] RT I know I'm the last Guy you like hearing from but here's my thoughts! Of course there's Morals in just about every religion! I'm sure Most Muslims have strong Moral Values..But Christianity is the one that's always attacked! All the Movies that make Fun of Religion are Movies mocking Christianity! Do you think they would make a Negative movie in Hollywood that mocked Jews or Muslims?? We no longer have Christmas Break it's Holiday Break! I could go further but you get the Idea..The extreme Religious part of the Republican party is in the Minority! But many make them out to be worse than Suicide Bombers..Even people on this Board have said they side with the Bombers over devout Christians.. <_<

11-09-2004, 05:32 PM	#10
Green Jets & Ham Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 41,588	[quote][i]Originally posted by R. Tyme[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 04:31 PM [b] All this talk of morals and Christianity in this election. Is that saying that other religions don't have morals? Has any other religious group spoken out about this yet? curious. [/b][/quote] The Wickas have yet to weigh-in, but America awaits their pronouncement with beaded breath :lol: Just kidding RT I think every religion views their teachings as moral truth ... but I am not offended if an Orthodox Jew views the Torah as moral truth anymore than he should be offended by my view of Christianity What we need in this country is more religious tolerance, not less There was a time in this nation when folks weren't running to court every time they witnessed a manger at Christmas ... or some vile display of the 10 Commandments outside of some courthouse ... and that was actually in my lifetime When did we become so darn intolerant of religion? If you ask me, the ACLU and likeminded groups have done more to cause a religious divide in America than a Gazillion Jerry Falewell's Used to be a time when we RESPECTED one anothers religious differences ... I am old enough to remember those days, and I'm not that old so it wasn't too long ago ... but somewhere along the line the left decided to drag Christians into court each time they mention the word GOD in public, and to a lesser extent persecute Orthodox Jews ... and IMO that incited a religious backlash We were far better off when we simply repsected one another ... when we weren't hellbent on tormenting people of faith ... but that's just my opinion Let me offer one example, and while this may seem small to you it was a BIG DEAL to people of faith When the ACLU made such a federal case out of removing the 10 Commandments from that courthouse in the middle of nowhere and it recieved such media attention ... eventually the judge who refused to remove the monument was himself removed from the bench What was the point of all that? Why was that necessary? Why was it important to persecute that man and make him chose between his GOD and his Job? I'm not asking for the legal analysis ... I'm asking you as a human-being ... why was that necessary? Cause that's the kind of religious intolerance I'm talking about ... the kind that brings forth a religious backlash ... so was it really worth it?

11-09-2004, 05:32 PM	#11
Section109Row15 Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 3,406	[quote][i]Originally posted by savage69+Nov 9 2004, 07:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (savage69 @ Nov 9 2004, 07:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-R. Tyme[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 04:31 PM [b] All this talk of morals and Christianity in this election. Is that saying that other religions don't have morals? Has any other religious group spoken out about this yet? curious. [/b][/quote] RT I know I'm the last Guy you like hearing from but here's my thoughts! Of course there's Morals in just about every religion! I'm sure Most Muslims have strong Moral Values..But Christianity is the one that's always attacked! All the Movies that make Fun of Religion are Movies mocking Christianity! Do you think they would make a Negative movie in Hollywood that mocked Jews or Muslims?? We no longer have Christmas Break it's Holiday Break! I could go further but you get the Idea..The extreme Religious part of the Republican party is in the Minority! But many make them out to be worse than Suicide Bombers..Even people on this Board have said they side with the Bombers over devout Christians.. <_< [/b][/quote] Maybe because that minority you talk about is the ones who are bombing abortion clinics, saying that gays caused 9/11, saying God hates fags, often times they are also overtly racist, many of them are very poorly educated. Thats not a stereotype it is a fact. We are not talking about normal church going folks here, we are talking about radical christianity that dance with snakes and such. People who liken Bush to Jesus, people who preach hatred from the pulpit.

11-09-2004, 05:40 PM	#12
Savage69 Jets Insider VIP Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 39,294	[quote][i]Originally posted by Section109Row15+Nov 9 2004, 05:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Section109Row15 @ Nov 9 2004, 05:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by savage69@Nov 9 2004, 07:26 PM [b] <!--QuoteBegin-R. Tyme[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 04:31 PM [b] All this talk of morals and Christianity in this election. Is that saying that other religions don't have morals? Has any other religious group spoken out about this yet? curious. [/b][/quote] RT I know I'm the last Guy you like hearing from but here's my thoughts! Of course there's Morals in just about every religion! I'm sure Most Muslims have strong Moral Values..But Christianity is the one that's always attacked! All the Movies that make Fun of Religion are Movies mocking Christianity! Do you think they would make a Negative movie in Hollywood that mocked Jews or Muslims?? We no longer have Christmas Break it's Holiday Break! I could go further but you get the Idea..The extreme Religious part of the Republican party is in the Minority! But many make them out to be worse than Suicide Bombers..Even people on this Board have said they side with the Bombers over devout Christians.. <_< [/b][/quote] Maybe because that minority you talk about is the ones who are bombing abortion clinics, saying that gays caused 9/11, saying God hates fags, often times they are also overtly racist, many of them are very poorly educated. Thats not a stereotype it is a fact. We are not talking about normal church going folks here, we are talking about radical christianity that dance with snakes and such. People who liken Bush to Jesus, people who preach hatred from the pulpit. [/b][/quote] 109 any idiot that bombs a abortion Clinic should be shot! To me there no different then terrorists! A Women once said ;If men got pregnant it would not only be Legal on demand but considered a Sacrament!! Bush is not with those types that you mention..Who are what most of us call the Loony Right..The big Difference is the Loony Left runs the Dems and most of you can't either see it..Or are it!! :rolleyes:

11-09-2004, 06:00 PM	#13
Green Jets & Ham Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 41,588	Bottom Line I am Catholic, but if one of my Jewish neighbors hangs a Manorah on his door my first response is ... [i]Hey Jack, Happy Hanuhka!![/i] :D I'm not petrified that my little nephew might see a Manorah!! :o Know why? Cause I respect my neigbors religious beliefs and my nephew should learn to do the same We are a better nation when we respect one anothers religious differences, not worse Which brings me to the popular culture ..... Savage is right ... hollywoods assault on Chrsitians is the most vile example of religious bigotry I have ever seen ... it should be a national outrage ... and in many ways it is, but you only realize that on election day cause the media is in bed with the hollywood elites on this issue, so they are not gonna hold them accountable for their religious bigotry Mark my words, after this election you can expect a slew of films coming out of hollywood that portrays people of faith {and mostly Christians} as homicidal maniacs and just the worst kind of lunatics you ever want to encounter It's coming ... BET THE RANCH ON IT They will condemn The Passion of the Christ like nothing you have ever seen ... screaming from the rooftops ... but these same folks will bring forth a slew of films portraying Jesus as a degenerate and people of faith as the most vile creatures crawling on the planet MARK IT DOWN ... over the next four years you will see hollywood on an absolute mission to paint people of faith in the most negative light imaginable ... with the mainstream media cheering them on all the way ... you heard it here first

11-09-2004, 06:37 PM	#14
Darkstar Rising Practice Squad Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 48	For those who feel religious objects (ten commandements monument, cross in court or on flag) are acceptable: Do you feel the same if the object is from another religion? For example, the Muslim community in Detroit wan'ts a star and crecent moon monument outside their local courthouse. Pick your own example. The same can be asked about holidays and such. Should public land (i.e. town/stet/federal) be permitted to have a Ramadan display during that time, as well as the traditional Manger scene at Christmas. Should Winter break be called Haunaka break or Quanza Break depening on the area involved? Would you, if you lived in that area, accept that as well? Of course you won't be offended by symbols of your OWN faith and beliefs in public life and on public land. After all, it's YOUR fiath being honored and promoted. But are you consistent?

11-09-2004, 06:49 PM	#15
Green Jets & Ham Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 41,588	[quote][i]Originally posted by Darkstar Rising[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 06:37 PM [b] For those who feel religious objects (ten commandements monument, cross in court or on flag) are acceptable: Do you feel the same if the object is from another religion? For example, the Muslim community in Detroit wan'ts a star and crecent moon monument outside their local courthouse. Pick your own example. The same can be asked about holidays and such. Should public land (i.e. town/stet/federal) be permitted to have a Ramadan display during that time, as well as the traditional Manger scene at Christmas. Should Winter break be called Haunaka break or Quanza Break depening on the area involved? Would you, if you lived in that area, accept that as well? Of course you won't be offended by symbols of your OWN faith and beliefs in public life and on public land. After all, it's YOUR fiath being honored and promoted. But are you consistent? [/b][/quote] WHO CARES!!!!! If it's a Muslim community, let them put up Muslim displays If it's a Jewish community, ditto If it's a Hindu community, ditto And if it's a mixed community, let everyone freely display their symbols as they see fit Seriously, who cares ... when did we become so damn sensitive in this country? Why should folks have to look over their shoulder when displaying their symbols of faith, to make sure the ACLU isn't watching? :ph34r: Let's stop making people feel like criminals for openly displaying symbols of their faith ... it's an absolute joke

11-09-2004, 06:56 PM	#16
Darkstar Rising Practice Squad Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 48	[quote][i]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham+Nov 9 2004, 06:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Green Jets & Ham @ Nov 9 2004, 06:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Darkstar Rising[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 06:37 PM [b] For those who feel religious objects (ten commandements monument, cross in court or on flag) are acceptable: Do you feel the same if the object is from another religion? For example, the Muslim community in Detroit wan'ts a star and crecent moon monument outside their local courthouse. Pick your own example. The same can be asked about holidays and such. Should public land (i.e. town/stet/federal) be permitted to have a Ramadan display during that time, as well as the traditional Manger scene at Christmas. Should Winter break be called Haunaka break or Quanza Break depening on the area involved? Would you, if you lived in that area, accept that as well? Of course you won't be offended by symbols of your OWN faith and beliefs in public life and on public land. After all, it's YOUR fiath being honored and promoted. But are you consistent? [/b][/quote] WHO CARES!!!!! If it's a Muslim community, let them put up Muslim displays If it's a Jewish community, ditto If it's a Hindu community, ditto And if it's a mixed community, let everyone freely display their symbols as they see fit Seriously, who cares ... when did we become so damn sensitive in this country? Why should folks have to look over their shoulder when displaying their symbols of faith, to make sure the ACLU isn't watching? :ph34r: Let's stop making people feel like criminals for openly displaying symbols of their faith ... it's an absolute joke [/b][/quote] Obviously, alot of people care, hence the current atmosphere......duh! By the way, we are not talking about displays on PRIVATE land. How anyone could object to that I will never understand. I am speaking specifically of PUBLIC displays and PUBLIC endorcements. There is a big difference in theory between a Cross in the front Yard of YOUR house and a Cross in the front yard of the Courthouse. Wouldn't you say?

11-09-2004, 07:23 PM	#17
Green Jets & Ham Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 41,588	[quote][i]Originally posted by Darkstar Rising[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 06:56 PM [b] Obviously, alot of people care, hence the current atmosphere......duh! By the way, we are not talking about displays on PRIVATE land. How anyone could object to that I will never understand. I am speaking specifically of PUBLIC displays and PUBLIC endorcements. There is a big difference in theory between a Cross in the front Yard of YOUR house and a Cross in the front yard of the Courthouse. Wouldn't you say? [/b][/quote] Look man, I'm telling you how I feel ... for better or worse I don't care if some judge decides to hang a Manorah over his head ... especially during the Jewish holidays ... cause I RESPECT that mans right to his own beliefs, and even his desire to {dare I say it} make an open display of his beliefs And lastly, I do not believe this is a big disagreement in the USA ... I believe the overwhelming majority of Americans are equally as tolerant of other religions ... IMO it is a small group of elites who make a federal case out of this issue, and that's what pisses the majority off But that is JMO

11-09-2004, 07:39 PM	#18
Section109Row15 Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 3,406	[quote][i]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham+Nov 9 2004, 09:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Green Jets & Ham @ Nov 9 2004, 09:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Darkstar Rising[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 06:56 PM [b] Obviously, alot of people care, hence the current atmosphere......duh! By the way, we are not talking about displays on PRIVATE land. How anyone could object to that I will never understand. I am speaking specifically of PUBLIC displays and PUBLIC endorcements. There is a big difference in theory between a Cross in the front Yard of YOUR house and a Cross in the front yard of the Courthouse. Wouldn't you say? [/b][/quote] Look man, I'm telling you how I feel ... for better or worse I don't care if some judge decides to hang a Manorah over his head ... especially during the Jewish holidays ... cause I RESPECT that mans right to his own beliefs, and even his desire to {dare I say it} make an open display of his beliefs And lastly, I do not believe this is a big disagreement in the USA ... I believe the overwhelming majority of Americans are equally as tolerant of other religions ... IMO it is a small group of elites who make a federal case out of this issue, and that's what pisses the majority off But that is JMO [/b][/quote] I'm sure. What percentage of Americans would feel fine sitting next to a Muslim on an airplane who is reading from the Koran and wearing traditional clothing?

11-09-2004, 07:42 PM	#19
R. Tyme totally disgusted with Jets' dis-organization Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 3,476	[quote][i]Originally posted by savage69[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 05:26 PM [b] RT I know I'm the last Guy you like hearing from but here's my thoughts! [/b][/quote] Oh that is not true Savage! I understand where you're coming from, I'm not mad with you at all :) I was just wondering if any other religion spoke up about all the morals=christianity talk in the elections.

11-09-2004, 07:45 PM	#20
Darkstar Rising Practice Squad Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 48	[quote][i]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham[/i]@Nov 9 2004, 07:23 PM [b] Look man, I'm telling you how I feel ... for better or worse I don't care if some judge decides to hang a Manorah over his head ... especially during the Jewish holidays ... cause I RESPECT that mans right to his own beliefs, and even his desire to {dare I say it} make an open display of his beliefs And lastly, I do not believe this is a big disagreement in the USA ... I believe the overwhelming majority of Americans are equally as tolerant of other religions ... IMO it is a small group of elites who make a federal case out of this issue, and that's what pisses the majority off But that is JMO [/b][/quote] Oh I KNOW you're telling people how you feel Ham. You are LOUD and CLEAR in that aspect of your postings in this forum. Yet, oddly, when you are questioned for clarification on those LOUD and CLEAR positions, you suddenly act as if it is beneath you or somehow offends you to respond. Of course, that is your right as well. I now fully understand your claimed position. Consider my questioning of you finished on this issue.