Rumsfeld:Another disgrace to America

curtisthegreat · 12-20-2004, 12:51 PM

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld faced renewed criticism Sunday from lawmakers, including one prominent Republican, after he said he has not personally signed letters sent to family members of troops killed in action.

Rumsfeld made the acknowledgment in a statement to military newspaper Stars and Stripes, saying that he would begin signing such letters.

Stars and Stripes had reported that Rumsfeld's letters carried a mechanical reproduction of his signature, which angered some military families.

[b]Sen. Chuck Hagel, a leading GOP critic of Rumsfeld, called the news about the letters "astounding," and noted that President Bush signs each of his letters to military families.

"I think it's very reflective of how out of touch this crowd is," the Nebraskan said on CBS' "Face the Nation." "My goodness, that's the least that we could expect of the secretary of defense."[/b]

[i]But Bush chief of staff Andrew Card said Rumsfeld enjoys the president's confidence, and Sen. John Cornyn of Texas said Rumsfeld's dismissal would be "a gift to the jihadists and the insurgents" in Iraq.

"Secretary Rumsfeld is doing a spectacular job, and the president has great confidence in him," Card said on ABC's "This Week."
"He is helping to lead our troops as they meet an awesome responsibility to protect us and to bring freedom to others. He's also transforming the military. And any time you do that, there are controversies."[/i]
More than 1,300 U.S. troops have died in Iraq, and more than 1,000 of those have been killed in combat. In fighting in Afghanistan and elsewhere, more than 60 have been killed in hostile action.

In his statement published Friday, Rumsfeld said he "wrote and approved the now more than 1,000 letters sent to family members and next of kin of each of the servicemen and women killed in military action.

"While I have not individually signed each one, in the interest of ensuring expeditious contact with grieving family members, I have directed that in the future I sign each letter."

Charges of failed leadership
But his critics characterized the flap as another failure of Rumsfeld's leadership.

Hagel, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said some fellow Republicans have argued that the dispute over Rumsfeld is a matter of style over substance.

"I would suggest that those who believe that, in my party and elsewhere, they better wake up and smell the coffee," he said.

"We're isolating ourselves in the world ... And I think that the leadership of the Pentagon has done that in many ways to us," Hagel said. "This issue of a secretary of defense not personally signing these letters is just astounding."

And Sen. Jack Reed, a Rhode Island Democrat, told CBS he was "shocked."

"We ask these young men and women to sacrifice themselves, to give their lives," said Reed, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee. "I believe it's part of that leadership of that department that the secretary of defense would personally write these letters, personally sign them at least."

Some lawmakers have complained that Rumsfeld failed to adequately plan and equip troops for the resistance in Iraq. Those complaints increased this month when a soldier asked Rumsfeld directly at a town hall meeting in Kuwait why some troops were not provided with armor for vehicles. (Full story)

Rumsfeld said armor was being produced as quickly as "humanly possible" -- which turned out not to be true. Some lawmakers said they have long been telling the White House that manufacturers were not working at capacity and were offering to make more.

Sen. Evan Bayh, an Indiana Democrat, said on CNN's "Late Edition" that he was among them.

Although Rumsfeld has agreed to sign the letters, Bayh said, "What's most important here is that we do what it takes to minimize the number of letters that have to be sent."

He accused the administration of failing to recognize its errors.

"We have to learn from these mistakes so that we do better to minimize the number of casualties to win this thing," Bayh said. "It's the lack of any introspection that I find to be very troubling."

Polarizing figure
Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona has said he has no confidence in the defense secretary, but Bush has said he wants Rumsfeld to stay. (Full story)

Republican sources told CNN before the presidential election last month that some top GOP figures were holding off on criticizing the Bush administration until after the vote -- but would then give the president an earful.

Still, some Republicans remain supportive of the secretary. Sen. Richard Lugar, chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, told reporters Sunday that Rumsfeld is learning from the criticism.

"To go through another secretary of defense set of hearings and nominations and all the turmoil of this would be very destructive in my judgment to the momentum of what we need to do," the Indiana Republican said.

Whatever Card and Cornyn are smoking, I want some of it. Of course, thanks to his dreadful and horrifying record, I'm sure Chimpy Bush will give him a Medal of Freedom.

jets5ever · 12-20-2004, 01:04 PM

Yeah, this is an important story.....

Come Back to NY · 12-20-2004, 01:18 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Dec 20 2004, 01:04 PM
[b] Yeah, this is an important story..... [/b][/quote]
It is in the sense it helps show how out of touch and intolerant today's democratic party is...here is a situation where the Republican party is criticizing one of their own, some justifiably yet many others to promote their own agenda....yet God forbid someone from the ""party of inclusion" was to speak out against one of their own...TO THE GALLOWS! just ask zel miller, or joe lieberman and so on and so on....as Ann Coulter told Wolf Blitzer today, "if not signing letters of condlence is the only thing they can come up with on Rumsfeld he's doing a damn good job!"

jets5ever · 12-20-2004, 01:21 PM

Why don't people like curtis or gobbles ever get outraged at stories like this?

[url=http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-congo18dec18,0,2415942.story?coll=la-home-headlines]http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/wo...-home-headlines[/url]

We all know why they don't.....

gobbles · 12-20-2004, 09:14 PM

[quote][b]Why don't people like curtis or gobbles ever get outraged at stories like this?[/b][/quote]

Maybe because the frenchies didn't shoot the ladies afterwards...like this guy.

[url=http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1941428p-8299574c.html]http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/194...p-8299574c.html[/url]

bitonti · 12-20-2004, 10:17 PM

i guess if you don't care about the sacrifice these men are making then you won't care that our government signs letters to their family by machine.

JetsMetsIsles · 12-20-2004, 10:19 PM

I take comfort in the fact that I didnt vote for Bush

Smizzy · 12-20-2004, 10:39 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by JetsMetsIsles[/i]@Dec 20 2004, 10:19 PM
[b] I take comfort in the fact that I didnt vote for Bush [/b][/quote]
Not as much as we take in voting for bush ;)

Come Back to NY · 12-20-2004, 11:30 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Smizzy+Dec 20 2004, 10:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Smizzy @ Dec 20 2004, 10:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JetsMetsIsles[/i]@Dec 20 2004, 10:19 PM
[b] I take comfort in the fact that I didnt vote for Bush [/b][/quote]
Not as much as we take in voting for bush ;) [/b][/quote]
We as in 61-million Americans!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

bitonti · 12-21-2004, 07:46 AM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Dec 20 2004, 11:30 PM
[b]
We as in 61-million Americans!! :lol: :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote]
yeah and 58 mil voted for Kerry what's your point?

Jet Moses · 12-21-2004, 10:00 AM

[quote][i]Originally posted by gobbles[/i]@Dec 20 2004, 09:14 PM
[b] [quote][b]Why don't people like curtis or gobbles ever get outraged at stories like this?[/b][/quote]

Maybe because the frenchies didn't shoot the ladies afterwards...like this guy.

[url=http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1941428p-8299574c.html]http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/194...p-8299574c.html[/url] [/b][/quote]
[img]http://pbskids.org/rogers/songlist/slimages/proudofyou_pic.jpg[/img]

Sometimes when I get real Angry or upset, I like to get a big ball of clay and just squeeze and punch it. Do you like to do that? Punch clay? Wouldja lak to punch some clay with me?

And get all that pent up f***ing sht out?

sackdance · 12-21-2004, 10:17 AM

[quote][i]Originally posted by JetsMetsIsles[/i]@Dec 20 2004, 10:19 PM
[b] I take comfort in the fact that I didnt vote for Bush [/b][/quote]
You also revel in your hate of Christians. You're just one big, jolly fella.

Come Back to NY · 12-21-2004, 11:16 AM

[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti+Dec 21 2004, 07:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (bitonti @ Dec 21 2004, 07:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Dec 20 2004, 11:30 PM
[b]
We as in 61-million Americans!! :lol: :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote]
yeah and 58 mil voted for Kerry what's your point? [/b][/quote]
My point?? [b]YOU LOSE![/b] :lol: :lol: :lol:

Jet Moses · 12-21-2004, 08:18 PM

It's a shame Blackwelder isn't in Leavenworth. He could put Federico Daniel Merida "on the slab" and pretend it was Dan Quayle.

bitonti · 12-22-2004, 09:54 AM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY+Dec 21 2004, 11:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Come Back to NY @ Dec 21 2004, 11:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by bitonti@Dec 21 2004, 07:46 AM
[b] <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Dec 20 2004, 11:30 PM
[b]
We as in 61-million Americans!! :lol: :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote]
yeah and 58 mil voted for Kerry what's your point? [/b][/quote]
My point?? [b]YOU LOSE![/b] :lol: :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote]
it's not a f--king NFL game Come Back

at the end of the day the score is meaningless and we are all on the same team...

EVERYONE who voted is a winner compared to the tens of millions who didn't even bother -

my point was that it was still a very close election, considering the democratic party ran an unelectable stiff (and his worthless sidekick)

JetsMetsIsles · 12-22-2004, 09:57 AM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY+Dec 21 2004, 11:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Come Back to NY @ Dec 21 2004, 11:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by bitonti@Dec 21 2004, 07:46 AM
[b] <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Dec 20 2004, 11:30 PM
[b]
We as in 61-million Americans!! :lol: :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote]
yeah and 58 mil voted for Kerry what's your point? [/b][/quote]
My point?? [b]YOU LOSE![/b] :lol: :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote]
We ALL Lost when Bush won...

Come Back to NY · 12-22-2004, 11:36 AM

[quote][i]Originally posted by JetsMetsIsles+Dec 22 2004, 09:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (JetsMetsIsles @ Dec 22 2004, 09:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by Come Back to NY@Dec 21 2004, 11:16 AM
[b] [quote]Originally posted by bitonti@Dec 21 2004, 07:46 AM
[b] <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Dec 20 2004, 11:30 PM
[b]
We as in 61-million Americans!! :lol: :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote]
yeah and 58 mil voted for Kerry what's your point? [/b][/quote]
My point?? [b]YOU LOSE![/b] :lol: :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote]
We ALL Lost when Bush won... [/b][/quote]
waaaa.....waaaaaa...waaaa.....

face it; liberalism is dead and has no place in American government today!

DirtyPhillyJetPhan · 12-23-2004, 08:33 AM

Chuck Hagel is another lib cut from the same cloth as McCain. It's difficult to take cut/paste "news stories" seriously from a someone who gets his news from a late night comedian.

gobbles · 12-23-2004, 09:13 AM

[quote][b]Wouldja lak to punch some clay with me? [/b][/quote]

Put the clay over your face first and I'd be more than happy to join you.

Your pal
Gobbles

Oakliusmaximus · 12-23-2004, 11:08 AM

Regardless of our opinions on whether or not this is right (Personally I think it would be a nice gesture for him to actually sign them, but I'm not willing to fry the guy just because of this), this type of thing is nothing new. Anybody remember this letter to Mrs. Bixpy?

[quote][b]Executive Mansion,
Washington, Nov. 21, 1864.

Dear Madam,--

I have been shown in the files of the War Department a statement of the Adjutant General of Massachusetts that you are the mother of five sons who have died gloriously on the field of battle.

I feel how weak and fruitless must be any word of mine which should attempt to beguile you from the grief of a loss so overwhelming. But I cannot refrain from tendering you the consolation that may be found in the thanks of the Republic they died to save.

I pray that our Heavenly Father may assuage the anguish of your bereavement, and leave you only the cherished memory of the loved and lost, and the solemn pride that must be yours to have laid so costly a sacrifice upon the altar of freedom.

Yours, very sincerely and respectfully,

A. Lincoln

[/b][/quote]

Despite the fact that this is signed A. Lincoln, it was actually written and signed by John Hay, a white house secretary of Abraham Lincoln's. If something like this were written today it would be mass chaos as it's not even accurate. Only two of her sons died, another was honorably discharged and the others were deserters. Not only that but Mrs. Bixpy was also a confederate sympathizer who despised Lincoln. (I'm pretty sure she also owned a whore house).

See? History can be fun.

12-20-2004, 12:51 PM	#1
curtisthegreat All League Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: In Kicking Pats-a$$ country Posts: 874	WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld faced renewed criticism Sunday from lawmakers, including one prominent Republican, after he said he has not personally signed letters sent to family members of troops killed in action. Rumsfeld made the acknowledgment in a statement to military newspaper Stars and Stripes, saying that he would begin signing such letters. Stars and Stripes had reported that Rumsfeld's letters carried a mechanical reproduction of his signature, which angered some military families. [b]Sen. Chuck Hagel, a leading GOP critic of Rumsfeld, called the news about the letters "astounding," and noted that President Bush signs each of his letters to military families. "I think it's very reflective of how out of touch this crowd is," the Nebraskan said on CBS' "Face the Nation." "My goodness, that's the least that we could expect of the secretary of defense."[/b] [i]But Bush chief of staff Andrew Card said Rumsfeld enjoys the president's confidence, and Sen. John Cornyn of Texas said Rumsfeld's dismissal would be "a gift to the jihadists and the insurgents" in Iraq. "Secretary Rumsfeld is doing a spectacular job, and the president has great confidence in him," Card said on ABC's "This Week." "He is helping to lead our troops as they meet an awesome responsibility to protect us and to bring freedom to others. He's also transforming the military. And any time you do that, there are controversies."[/i] More than 1,300 U.S. troops have died in Iraq, and more than 1,000 of those have been killed in combat. In fighting in Afghanistan and elsewhere, more than 60 have been killed in hostile action. In his statement published Friday, Rumsfeld said he "wrote and approved the now more than 1,000 letters sent to family members and next of kin of each of the servicemen and women killed in military action. "While I have not individually signed each one, in the interest of ensuring expeditious contact with grieving family members, I have directed that in the future I sign each letter." Charges of failed leadership But his critics characterized the flap as another failure of Rumsfeld's leadership. Hagel, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said some fellow Republicans have argued that the dispute over Rumsfeld is a matter of style over substance. "I would suggest that those who believe that, in my party and elsewhere, they better wake up and smell the coffee," he said. "We're isolating ourselves in the world ... And I think that the leadership of the Pentagon has done that in many ways to us," Hagel said. "This issue of a secretary of defense not personally signing these letters is just astounding." And Sen. Jack Reed, a Rhode Island Democrat, told CBS he was "shocked." "We ask these young men and women to sacrifice themselves, to give their lives," said Reed, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee. "I believe it's part of that leadership of that department that the secretary of defense would personally write these letters, personally sign them at least." Some lawmakers have complained that Rumsfeld failed to adequately plan and equip troops for the resistance in Iraq. Those complaints increased this month when a soldier asked Rumsfeld directly at a town hall meeting in Kuwait why some troops were not provided with armor for vehicles. (Full story) Rumsfeld said armor was being produced as quickly as "humanly possible" -- which turned out not to be true. Some lawmakers said they have long been telling the White House that manufacturers were not working at capacity and were offering to make more. Sen. Evan Bayh, an Indiana Democrat, said on CNN's "Late Edition" that he was among them. Although Rumsfeld has agreed to sign the letters, Bayh said, "What's most important here is that we do what it takes to minimize the number of letters that have to be sent." He accused the administration of failing to recognize its errors. "We have to learn from these mistakes so that we do better to minimize the number of casualties to win this thing," Bayh said. "It's the lack of any introspection that I find to be very troubling." Polarizing figure Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona has said he has no confidence in the defense secretary, but Bush has said he wants Rumsfeld to stay. (Full story) Republican sources told CNN before the presidential election last month that some top GOP figures were holding off on criticizing the Bush administration until after the vote -- but would then give the president an earful. Still, some Republicans remain supportive of the secretary. Sen. Richard Lugar, chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, told reporters Sunday that Rumsfeld is learning from the criticism. "To go through another secretary of defense set of hearings and nominations and all the turmoil of this would be very destructive in my judgment to the momentum of what we need to do," the Indiana Republican said. Whatever Card and Cornyn are smoking, I want some of it. Of course, thanks to his dreadful and horrifying record, I'm sure Chimpy Bush will give him a Medal of Freedom.

12-20-2004, 01:04 PM	#2
jets5ever Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 11,692	Yeah, this is an important story.....

12-20-2004, 01:18 PM	#3
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[quote][i]Originally posted by jets5ever[/i]@Dec 20 2004, 01:04 PM [b] Yeah, this is an important story..... [/b][/quote] It is in the sense it helps show how out of touch and intolerant today's democratic party is...here is a situation where the Republican party is criticizing one of their own, some justifiably yet many others to promote their own agenda....yet God forbid someone from the ""party of inclusion" was to speak out against one of their own...TO THE GALLOWS! just ask zel miller, or joe lieberman and so on and so on....as Ann Coulter told Wolf Blitzer today, "if not signing letters of condlence is the only thing they can come up with on Rumsfeld he's doing a damn good job!"

12-20-2004, 01:21 PM	#4
jets5ever Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 11,692	Why don't people like curtis or gobbles ever get outraged at stories like this? [url=http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-congo18dec18,0,2415942.story?coll=la-home-headlines]http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/wo...-home-headlines[/url] We all know why they don't.....

12-20-2004, 09:14 PM	#5
gobbles Veteran Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 247	[quote][b]Why don't people like curtis or gobbles ever get outraged at stories like this?[/b][/quote] Maybe because the frenchies didn't shoot the ladies afterwards...like this guy. [url=http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1941428p-8299574c.html]http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/194...p-8299574c.html[/url]

12-20-2004, 10:17 PM	#6
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	i guess if you don't care about the sacrifice these men are making then you won't care that our government signs letters to their family by machine.

12-20-2004, 10:19 PM	#7
JetsMetsIsles Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 461	I take comfort in the fact that I didnt vote for Bush

12-20-2004, 10:39 PM	#8
Smizzy Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 10,727	[quote][i]Originally posted by JetsMetsIsles[/i]@Dec 20 2004, 10:19 PM [b] I take comfort in the fact that I didnt vote for Bush [/b][/quote] Not as much as we take in voting for bush ;)

12-20-2004, 11:30 PM	#9
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[quote][i]Originally posted by Smizzy+Dec 20 2004, 10:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Smizzy @ Dec 20 2004, 10:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-JetsMetsIsles[/i]@Dec 20 2004, 10:19 PM [b] I take comfort in the fact that I didnt vote for Bush [/b][/quote] Not as much as we take in voting for bush ;) [/b][/quote] We as in 61-million Americans!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

12-21-2004, 07:46 AM	#10
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Dec 20 2004, 11:30 PM [b] We as in 61-million Americans!! :lol: :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote] yeah and 58 mil voted for Kerry what's your point?

12-21-2004, 10:00 AM	#11
Jet Moses Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,281	[quote][i]Originally posted by gobbles[/i]@Dec 20 2004, 09:14 PM [b] [quote][b]Why don't people like curtis or gobbles ever get outraged at stories like this?[/b][/quote] Maybe because the frenchies didn't shoot the ladies afterwards...like this guy. [url=http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1941428p-8299574c.html]http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/194...p-8299574c.html[/url] [/b][/quote] [img]http://pbskids.org/rogers/songlist/slimages/proudofyou_pic.jpg[/img] Sometimes when I get real Angry or upset, I like to get a big ball of clay and just squeeze and punch it. Do you like to do that? Punch clay? Wouldja lak to punch some clay with me? And get all that pent up f***ing sht out?

12-21-2004, 10:17 AM	#12
sackdance All Pro Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,886	[quote][i]Originally posted by JetsMetsIsles[/i]@Dec 20 2004, 10:19 PM [b] I take comfort in the fact that I didnt vote for Bush [/b][/quote] You also revel in your hate of Christians. You're just one big, jolly fella.

12-21-2004, 11:16 AM	#13
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti+Dec 21 2004, 07:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (bitonti @ Dec 21 2004, 07:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Dec 20 2004, 11:30 PM [b] We as in 61-million Americans!! :lol: :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote] yeah and 58 mil voted for Kerry what's your point? [/b][/quote] My point?? [b]YOU LOSE![/b] :lol: :lol: :lol:

12-21-2004, 08:18 PM	#14
Jet Moses Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,281	It's a shame Blackwelder isn't in Leavenworth. He could put Federico Daniel Merida "on the slab" and pretend it was Dan Quayle.

12-22-2004, 09:54 AM	#15
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY+Dec 21 2004, 11:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Come Back to NY @ Dec 21 2004, 11:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by bitonti@Dec 21 2004, 07:46 AM [b] <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Dec 20 2004, 11:30 PM [b] We as in 61-million Americans!! :lol: :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote] yeah and 58 mil voted for Kerry what's your point? [/b][/quote] My point?? [b]YOU LOSE![/b] :lol: :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote] it's not a f--king NFL game Come Back at the end of the day the score is meaningless and we are all on the same team... EVERYONE who voted is a winner compared to the tens of millions who didn't even bother - my point was that it was still a very close election, considering the democratic party ran an unelectable stiff (and his worthless sidekick)

12-22-2004, 09:57 AM	#16
JetsMetsIsles Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 461	[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY+Dec 21 2004, 11:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Come Back to NY @ Dec 21 2004, 11:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by bitonti@Dec 21 2004, 07:46 AM [b] <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Dec 20 2004, 11:30 PM [b] We as in 61-million Americans!! :lol: :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote] yeah and 58 mil voted for Kerry what's your point? [/b][/quote] My point?? [b]YOU LOSE![/b] :lol: :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote] We ALL Lost when Bush won...

12-22-2004, 11:36 AM	#17
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[quote][i]Originally posted by JetsMetsIsles+Dec 22 2004, 09:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (JetsMetsIsles @ Dec 22 2004, 09:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by Come Back to NY@Dec 21 2004, 11:16 AM [b] [quote]Originally posted by bitonti@Dec 21 2004, 07:46 AM [b] <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Dec 20 2004, 11:30 PM [b] We as in 61-million Americans!! :lol: :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote] yeah and 58 mil voted for Kerry what's your point? [/b][/quote] My point?? [b]YOU LOSE![/b] :lol: :lol: :lol: [/b][/quote] We ALL Lost when Bush won... [/b][/quote] waaaa.....waaaaaa...waaaa..... face it; liberalism is dead and has no place in American government today!

12-23-2004, 08:33 AM	#18
DirtyPhillyJetPhan Rookie Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 82	Chuck Hagel is another lib cut from the same cloth as McCain. It's difficult to take cut/paste "news stories" seriously from a someone who gets his news from a late night comedian.

12-23-2004, 09:13 AM	#19
gobbles Veteran Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 247	[quote][b]Wouldja lak to punch some clay with me? [/b][/quote] Put the clay over your face first and I'd be more than happy to join you. Your pal Gobbles

12-23-2004, 11:08 AM	#20
Oakliusmaximus Veteran Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston Posts: 453	Regardless of our opinions on whether or not this is right (Personally I think it would be a nice gesture for him to actually sign them, but I'm not willing to fry the guy just because of this), this type of thing is nothing new. Anybody remember this letter to Mrs. Bixpy? [quote][b]Executive Mansion, Washington, Nov. 21, 1864. Dear Madam,-- I have been shown in the files of the War Department a statement of the Adjutant General of Massachusetts that you are the mother of five sons who have died gloriously on the field of battle. I feel how weak and fruitless must be any word of mine which should attempt to beguile you from the grief of a loss so overwhelming. But I cannot refrain from tendering you the consolation that may be found in the thanks of the Republic they died to save. I pray that our Heavenly Father may assuage the anguish of your bereavement, and leave you only the cherished memory of the loved and lost, and the solemn pride that must be yours to have laid so costly a sacrifice upon the altar of freedom. Yours, very sincerely and respectfully, A. Lincoln [/b][/quote] Despite the fact that this is signed A. Lincoln, it was actually written and signed by John Hay, a white house secretary of Abraham Lincoln's. If something like this were written today it would be mass chaos as it's not even accurate. Only two of her sons died, another was honorably discharged and the others were deserters. Not only that but Mrs. Bixpy was also a confederate sympathizer who despised Lincoln. (I'm pretty sure she also owned a whore house). See? History can be fun.