Sacred Shroud of Turin

Green Jets & Ham · 01-29-2005, 05:08 AM

Scientists now believe the Shroud of Turin may indeed be the burial cloth of Jesus Christ

Below is the link to the website of a scientist who has been studying the cloth since 1978 ... and this man is a Jewish scientist who possesses no hidden agenda ... but testing has now debunked the carbon dating that was done some years back, where the cloth was declared an artifact from the medieval period, and it is now believed to date back to the very time of Jesus Christ

Anyhow, if you're interested below is a link to Barrie Shwortz website ... the scientist who has been studying the shroud since the 70's ... and at the site you will find a link for breaking news

PS. This is not the rantings of an internet lunatic cause these findings have also been widely reported in a number of liberal journals including the NY Times

And again, all of these findings are purely scientific ... all based on the findings of scientists who have been studying the shroud for quite some time

[b]Link below[/b] {when you get there you can click the link for BREAKING NEWS}

And if you click on the image of the shroud on the front page {as seen below} it will take you to the main menu where you can further study the shroud

[url=http://www.shroud.com/]Shroud.com[/url]

[img]http://www.shroud.com/tinyface.gif[/img]

[img]http://www.shroud.com/shrdbig2.jpg[/img]

R. Tyme · 02-14-2005, 07:58 PM

Hey Ham, they keep advertising on CBS some info about the shroud tonight at 11pm news if you're interested.

Warfish · 02-14-2005, 11:03 PM

So, we should take the word of the "untrustable" Scientists......

.....about an object your OWN beliefs say is scientifically untestable (as it is a divine item, a literal impression of the Messiah).

I thought science was evil Hambone? That in matters of faith, science was clearly and universally misinformed and wrong headed (your position, not mine). Or is that only the case when it doesn't agree with your faith?

I'll make you a deal....I'll check out this website IF (and only IF) you go out a find a copy of the recent (perhaps two months old) National Geographic with it's 30-odd page review of the science behind Evolution.

Deal? :D

JetsMetsIsles · 02-14-2005, 11:46 PM

Wow ya know maybe that is Jesus, maybe I was wrong all along
Praise Jesus!

Green Jets & Ham · 02-15-2005, 03:50 AM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Feb 14 2005, 11:03 PM
[b] [b]So, we should take the word of the "untrustable" Scientists......

.....about an object your OWN beliefs say is scientifically untestable (as it is a divine item, a literal impression of the Messiah).

I thought science was evil Hambone? That in matters of faith, science was clearly and universally misinformed and wrong headed (your position, not mine). Or is that only the case when it doesn't agree with your faith?[/b]

I'll make you a deal....I'll check out this website IF (and only IF) you go out a find a copy of the recent (perhaps two months old) National Geographic with it's 30-odd page review of the science behind Evolution.

Deal? :D [/b][/quote]
Wholly mackeral ... talk about creating a straw man and then tearing it down

Talk about having your opinions not only mischaracterized, but flatout perverted

When exactly did I make all of these statements about science which you attribute too me in this post ... then proceed to use as proof of my hypocrisy?

Because I expressed skepticism at the [b]theory of evolution[/b], where did you get the idea I was making this giant leap towards dismissing all fields of scientific endevour?

Common War, you're smarter than that and you're better than that

As for the deal, I'm a afraid I have to reject that deal ... thirty pages on evolution?????

A man can only endure so much torture :rolleyes: :D

Warfish · 02-15-2005, 09:44 AM

Sorry Hambone, if I have misunderstood you. However, the general feeling I got from reading many of your posts in this forum is that you have a general distrust and dislike of Science and the Scientific community due to their hethenous and un-Godlike ways....and for their general dismissal of faith in their explorations.

The vibe I got was that if a particular scientist or scientific theory didn't match your faith, then you dismissed it out of hand as more anti-God/anti-Christian fallacies.

If that ISN'T how you felt, well, I'm sorry but that is the vibe you gave off IMO.

chiefst2000 · 02-15-2005, 10:19 AM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Feb 14 2005, 11:03 PM
[b] So, we should take the word of the "untrustable" Scientists......

.....about an object your OWN beliefs say is scientifically untestable (as it is a divine item, a literal impression of the Messiah).

I thought science was evil Hambone? That in matters of faith, science was clearly and universally misinformed and wrong headed (your position, not mine). Or is that only the case when it doesn't agree with your faith?

I'll make you a deal....I'll check out this website IF (and only IF) you go out a find a copy of the recent (perhaps two months old) National Geographic with it's 30-odd page review of the science behind Evolution.

Deal? :D [/b][/quote]
Whoa! What is this? The midevil Catholic Church? Science can be used to prove the truthfullness of the bible just as much as it can be used to disprove it. The idea that a cloth might have come from the time of Jesus or even been used on him personally is not such a stretch.

Green Jets & Ham · 02-15-2005, 01:03 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Feb 15 2005, 09:44 AM
[b] Sorry Hambone, if I have misunderstood you. However, the general feeling I got from reading many of your posts in this forum is that you have a general distrust and dislike of Science and the Scientific community due to their hethenous and un-Godlike ways....and for their general dismissal of faith in their explorations.

The vibe I got was that if a particular scientist or scientific theory didn't match your faith, then you dismissed it out of hand as more anti-God/anti-Christian fallacies.

If that ISN'T how you felt, well, I'm sorry but that is the vibe you gave off IMO. [/b][/quote]
This is crazy

Because I take issue with junk science like evolution or agenda driven enviornmental extremism, you get this vibe that I dismiss all [b]LEGITIMATE[/b] fields of scientific endevour? :blink:

Well that is not the case ... again, that is not the case ... and it never has been

I think you'll find most folks who take issue with junk science feel the same ... it is only junk science which they take issue with, and not all fields of scientific endevour ... but if it makes you feel better to believe the characiture of people of faith as uneducated dopes who reject all expressions of modernity, be my guest

Green Jets & Ham · 02-15-2005, 01:05 PM

BTW, if anyone wishes to discuss the actual topic ... you know, the shroud ... I'm all ears

Green Jets & Ham · 02-15-2005, 01:10 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by R. Tyme[/i]@Feb 14 2005, 07:58 PM
[b] Hey Ham, they keep advertising on CBS some info about the shroud tonight at 11pm news if you're interested. [/b][/quote]
Thanks RT ... I missed it ... didn't catch this post in time :(

But I did see a terrific documentary on the Discovery Channel recently, where all of the scientists involved in this pursuit were interviewed ... it was staggering

Warfish · 02-15-2005, 01:44 PM

Forget it, post deleted. There is no point in debate with a man of faith. Faith, by definition, in unquestionable. You cannot debate the unquestionable.

Fact is, there is nothing I could ever say or do or show you, no proof good enough, that you would deviate from the faith.

So any answer I could give, including my original 50 line rant I just deleted, is like pissin into the wind.....damn pointless and messy besides.

Enjoy your conversation about your magic shroud......

Green Jets & Ham · 02-15-2005, 01:59 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Feb 15 2005, 01:44 PM
[b] Forget it, post deleted. There is no point in debate with a man of faith. Faith, by definition, in unquestionable. You cannot debate the unquestionable.

Fact is, there is nothing I could ever say or do or show you, no proof good enough, that you would deviate from the faith.

So any answer I could give, including my original 50 line rant I just deleted, is like pissin into the wind.....damn pointless and messy besides. [/b][/quote]
That's just foolishness

I really don't wish to have this evolution debate all over again ... it's senseless ... we'll simply be repeating ourselves ... I'll only say that I named at the time a number of prominent scientists {past and present} who accepted creation and rejected evolution ... so why would I have done that if my entire dismissal was based solely on religious doctrine?

As I pointed out at the time, there is plenty of debate within the scientific community regarding evolution ... it is not even a fully accepted theory amongst men of science ... I made that argument loud and clear, and I provided the evidence to back it up ... so if you are telling me that only religious yahoos reject evolution, you are badly mistaken

Oh yeah, and there is an entire field of science called "creation science" ... but of course the evolutionists will reject that as JUNK SCIENCE ... but that's okay, right?

Green Jets & Ham · 02-15-2005, 02:01 PM

:lol: Hey man, you tossed me a curveball ... deleted the post and made me respond to nothing ... now I really look like a religious kook :lol:

Green Jets & Ham · 02-15-2005, 02:05 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Feb 15 2005, 01:44 PM
[b] Enjoy your conversation about your magic shroud...... [/b][/quote]
WRONG

It's not my conversation ... it's REAL MEN OF SCIENCE who are conducting an open minded pursuit of the truth, and their findings are leading them to believe the cloth is authentic

But feel free to reject their findings cause it doesn't jibe with YOUR predisposed beliefs ;)

JerryK · 02-15-2005, 02:14 PM

How much could I get on eBay for "The Grilled Cheese of Turin" ?

...Just kidding. The shroud is very interesting.

bitonti · 02-15-2005, 02:55 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham[/i]@Feb 15 2005, 02:05 PM
[b] it's REAL MEN OF SCIENCE [/b][/quote]
[img]http://www.shroud.com/images/rogers.jpg[/img]

:D

dude looks like he's been sniffin the ether

Green Jets & Ham · 02-15-2005, 04:06 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti+Feb 15 2005, 02:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (bitonti @ Feb 15 2005, 02:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Green Jets & Ham[/i]@Feb 15 2005, 02:05 PM
[b] it's REAL MEN OF SCIENCE [/b][/quote]
[img]http://www.shroud.com/images/rogers.jpg[/img]

:D

dude looks like he's been sniffin the ether [/b][/quote]
No more than this cat :o ... and I don't think anyone would dismiss his credentials

OBTW, the man below also accepted creation ;)

[img]http://www.ac-creteil.fr/Colleges/93/jmoulinmontreuil/mathematiques/enigmes/anciennes_enigmes2/gifs/einstein.jpg[/img]

bitonti · 02-15-2005, 04:08 PM

B) - very true - i just thought the forum would enjoy a funny picture :lol:

Green Jets & Ham · 02-15-2005, 04:11 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 15 2005, 04:08 PM
[b] B) - very true - i just thought the forum would enjoy a funny picture :lol: [/b][/quote]
Hey Bit, have you ever visisted a science lab?

I have ... used to work in one, believe it or not ... and those cats all look like they've spent a lifetime smoking massive quantities of ganja :lol:

Jetsfan80 · 02-15-2005, 04:12 PM

GJ & H, not to try to attack you or anything, but can you please tell me what the argument is against evolution from a scientific standpoint? I am aware that some reject evolution or parts of it, but I tend to believe this is from a faith-based standpoint. I'm simply wondering what are the problems of evolution from a purely scientific standpoint?

01-29-2005, 05:08 AM	#1
Green Jets & Ham Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 41,588	Scientists now believe the Shroud of Turin may indeed be the burial cloth of Jesus Christ Below is the link to the website of a scientist who has been studying the cloth since 1978 ... and this man is a Jewish scientist who possesses no hidden agenda ... but testing has now debunked the carbon dating that was done some years back, where the cloth was declared an artifact from the medieval period, and it is now believed to date back to the very time of Jesus Christ Anyhow, if you're interested below is a link to Barrie Shwortz website ... the scientist who has been studying the shroud since the 70's ... and at the site you will find a link for breaking news PS. This is not the rantings of an internet lunatic cause these findings have also been widely reported in a number of liberal journals including the NY Times And again, all of these findings are purely scientific ... all based on the findings of scientists who have been studying the shroud for quite some time [b]Link below[/b] {when you get there you can click the link for BREAKING NEWS} And if you click on the image of the shroud on the front page {as seen below} it will take you to the main menu where you can further study the shroud [url=http://www.shroud.com/]Shroud.com[/url] [img]http://www.shroud.com/tinyface.gif[/img] [img]http://www.shroud.com/shrdbig2.jpg[/img]

02-14-2005, 07:58 PM	#2
R. Tyme totally disgusted with Jets' dis-organization Jets Insider VIP Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Westchester County, NY Posts: 3,476	Hey Ham, they keep advertising on CBS some info about the shroud tonight at 11pm news if you're interested.

02-14-2005, 11:03 PM	#3
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	So, we should take the word of the "untrustable" Scientists...... .....about an object your OWN beliefs say is scientifically untestable (as it is a divine item, a literal impression of the Messiah). I thought science was evil Hambone? That in matters of faith, science was clearly and universally misinformed and wrong headed (your position, not mine). Or is that only the case when it doesn't agree with your faith? I'll make you a deal....I'll check out this website IF (and only IF) you go out a find a copy of the recent (perhaps two months old) National Geographic with it's 30-odd page review of the science behind Evolution. Deal? :D

02-14-2005, 11:46 PM	#4
JetsMetsIsles Banned Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 461	Wow ya know maybe that is Jesus, maybe I was wrong all along Praise Jesus!

02-15-2005, 03:50 AM	#5
Green Jets & Ham Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 41,588	[quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Feb 14 2005, 11:03 PM [b] [b]So, we should take the word of the "untrustable" Scientists...... .....about an object your OWN beliefs say is scientifically untestable (as it is a divine item, a literal impression of the Messiah). I thought science was evil Hambone? That in matters of faith, science was clearly and universally misinformed and wrong headed (your position, not mine). Or is that only the case when it doesn't agree with your faith?[/b] I'll make you a deal....I'll check out this website IF (and only IF) you go out a find a copy of the recent (perhaps two months old) National Geographic with it's 30-odd page review of the science behind Evolution. Deal? :D [/b][/quote] Wholly mackeral ... talk about creating a straw man and then tearing it down Talk about having your opinions not only mischaracterized, but flatout perverted When exactly did I make all of these statements about science which you attribute too me in this post ... then proceed to use as proof of my hypocrisy? Because I expressed skepticism at the [b]theory of evolution[/b], where did you get the idea I was making this giant leap towards dismissing all fields of scientific endevour? Common War, you're smarter than that and you're better than that As for the deal, I'm a afraid I have to reject that deal ... thirty pages on evolution????? A man can only endure so much torture :rolleyes: :D

02-15-2005, 09:44 AM	#6
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	Sorry Hambone, if I have misunderstood you. However, the general feeling I got from reading many of your posts in this forum is that you have a general distrust and dislike of Science and the Scientific community due to their hethenous and un-Godlike ways....and for their general dismissal of faith in their explorations. The vibe I got was that if a particular scientist or scientific theory didn't match your faith, then you dismissed it out of hand as more anti-God/anti-Christian fallacies. If that ISN'T how you felt, well, I'm sorry but that is the vibe you gave off IMO.

02-15-2005, 10:19 AM	#7
chiefst2000 Champion of Common Sense All Pro Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,834	[quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Feb 14 2005, 11:03 PM [b] So, we should take the word of the "untrustable" Scientists...... .....about an object your OWN beliefs say is scientifically untestable (as it is a divine item, a literal impression of the Messiah). I thought science was evil Hambone? That in matters of faith, science was clearly and universally misinformed and wrong headed (your position, not mine). Or is that only the case when it doesn't agree with your faith? I'll make you a deal....I'll check out this website IF (and only IF) you go out a find a copy of the recent (perhaps two months old) National Geographic with it's 30-odd page review of the science behind Evolution. Deal? :D [/b][/quote] Whoa! What is this? The midevil Catholic Church? Science can be used to prove the truthfullness of the bible just as much as it can be used to disprove it. The idea that a cloth might have come from the time of Jesus or even been used on him personally is not such a stretch.

02-15-2005, 01:03 PM	#8
Green Jets & Ham Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 41,588	[quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Feb 15 2005, 09:44 AM [b] Sorry Hambone, if I have misunderstood you. However, the general feeling I got from reading many of your posts in this forum is that you have a general distrust and dislike of Science and the Scientific community due to their hethenous and un-Godlike ways....and for their general dismissal of faith in their explorations. The vibe I got was that if a particular scientist or scientific theory didn't match your faith, then you dismissed it out of hand as more anti-God/anti-Christian fallacies. If that ISN'T how you felt, well, I'm sorry but that is the vibe you gave off IMO. [/b][/quote] This is crazy Because I take issue with junk science like evolution or agenda driven enviornmental extremism, you get this vibe that I dismiss all [b]LEGITIMATE[/b] fields of scientific endevour? :blink: Well that is not the case ... again, that is not the case ... and it never has been I think you'll find most folks who take issue with junk science feel the same ... it is only junk science which they take issue with, and not all fields of scientific endevour ... but if it makes you feel better to believe the characiture of people of faith as uneducated dopes who reject all expressions of modernity, be my guest

02-15-2005, 01:05 PM	#9
Green Jets & Ham Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 41,588	BTW, if anyone wishes to discuss the actual topic ... you know, the shroud ... I'm all ears

02-15-2005, 01:10 PM	#10
Green Jets & Ham Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 41,588	[quote][i]Originally posted by R. Tyme[/i]@Feb 14 2005, 07:58 PM [b] Hey Ham, they keep advertising on CBS some info about the shroud tonight at 11pm news if you're interested. [/b][/quote] Thanks RT ... I missed it ... didn't catch this post in time :( But I did see a terrific documentary on the Discovery Channel recently, where all of the scientists involved in this pursuit were interviewed ... it was staggering

02-15-2005, 01:44 PM	#11
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	Forget it, post deleted. There is no point in debate with a man of faith. Faith, by definition, in unquestionable. You cannot debate the unquestionable. Fact is, there is nothing I could ever say or do or show you, no proof good enough, that you would deviate from the faith. So any answer I could give, including my original 50 line rant I just deleted, is like pissin into the wind.....damn pointless and messy besides. Enjoy your conversation about your magic shroud......

02-15-2005, 01:59 PM	#12
Green Jets & Ham Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 41,588	[quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Feb 15 2005, 01:44 PM [b] Forget it, post deleted. There is no point in debate with a man of faith. Faith, by definition, in unquestionable. You cannot debate the unquestionable. Fact is, there is nothing I could ever say or do or show you, no proof good enough, that you would deviate from the faith. So any answer I could give, including my original 50 line rant I just deleted, is like pissin into the wind.....damn pointless and messy besides. [/b][/quote] That's just foolishness I really don't wish to have this evolution debate all over again ... it's senseless ... we'll simply be repeating ourselves ... I'll only say that I named at the time a number of prominent scientists {past and present} who accepted creation and rejected evolution ... so why would I have done that if my entire dismissal was based solely on religious doctrine? As I pointed out at the time, there is plenty of debate within the scientific community regarding evolution ... it is not even a fully accepted theory amongst men of science ... I made that argument loud and clear, and I provided the evidence to back it up ... so if you are telling me that only religious yahoos reject evolution, you are badly mistaken Oh yeah, and there is an entire field of science called "creation science" ... but of course the evolutionists will reject that as JUNK SCIENCE ... but that's okay, right?

02-15-2005, 02:01 PM	#13
Green Jets & Ham Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 41,588	:lol: Hey man, you tossed me a curveball ... deleted the post and made me respond to nothing ... now I really look like a religious kook :lol:

02-15-2005, 02:05 PM	#14
Green Jets & Ham Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 41,588	[quote][i]Originally posted by Warfish[/i]@Feb 15 2005, 01:44 PM [b] Enjoy your conversation about your magic shroud...... [/b][/quote] WRONG It's not my conversation ... it's REAL MEN OF SCIENCE who are conducting an open minded pursuit of the truth, and their findings are leading them to believe the cloth is authentic But feel free to reject their findings cause it doesn't jibe with YOUR predisposed beliefs ;)

02-15-2005, 02:14 PM	#15
JerryK All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lansing Posts: 1,337	How much could I get on eBay for "The Grilled Cheese of Turin" ? ...Just kidding. The shroud is very interesting.

02-15-2005, 02:55 PM	#16
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[quote][i]Originally posted by Green Jets & Ham[/i]@Feb 15 2005, 02:05 PM [b] it's REAL MEN OF SCIENCE [/b][/quote] [img]http://www.shroud.com/images/rogers.jpg[/img] :D dude looks like he's been sniffin the ether

02-15-2005, 04:06 PM	#17
Green Jets & Ham Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 41,588	[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti+Feb 15 2005, 02:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (bitonti @ Feb 15 2005, 02:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Green Jets & Ham[/i]@Feb 15 2005, 02:05 PM [b] it's REAL MEN OF SCIENCE [/b][/quote] [img]http://www.shroud.com/images/rogers.jpg[/img] :D dude looks like he's been sniffin the ether [/b][/quote] No more than this cat :o ... and I don't think anyone would dismiss his credentials OBTW, the man below also accepted creation ;) [img]http://www.ac-creteil.fr/Colleges/93/jmoulinmontreuil/mathematiques/enigmes/anciennes_enigmes2/gifs/einstein.jpg[/img]

02-15-2005, 04:08 PM	#18
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	B) - very true - i just thought the forum would enjoy a funny picture :lol:

02-15-2005, 04:11 PM	#19
Green Jets & Ham Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 41,588	[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 15 2005, 04:08 PM [b] B) - very true - i just thought the forum would enjoy a funny picture :lol: [/b][/quote] Hey Bit, have you ever visisted a science lab? I have ... used to work in one, believe it or not ... and those cats all look like they've spent a lifetime smoking massive quantities of ganja :lol:

02-15-2005, 04:12 PM	#20
Jetsfan80 All League Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 3,682	GJ & H, not to try to attack you or anything, but can you please tell me what the argument is against evolution from a scientific standpoint? I am aware that some reject evolution or parts of it, but I tend to believe this is from a faith-based standpoint. I'm simply wondering what are the problems of evolution from a purely scientific standpoint?