Remember the vote in Nam?

bitonti · 02-01-2005, 03:00 PM

[quote][b]United States officials were surprised and heartened today at the size of turnout in South Vietnam's presidential election despite a Vietcong terrorist campaign to disrupt the voting. According to reports from Saigon, 83 percent of the 5.85 million registered voters cast their ballots yesterday. Many of them risked reprisals threatened by the Vietcong. A successful election has long been seen as the keystone in President Johnson's policy of encouraging the growth of constitutional processes in South Vietnam.

– "U.S. Encouraged by Vietnam Vote," New York Times, Sept. 4, 1967
[/b][/quote]

Come Back to NY · 02-01-2005, 03:01 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:00 PM
[b] [quote][b]United States officials were surprised and heartened today at the size of turnout in South Vietnam's presidential election despite a Vietcong terrorist campaign to disrupt the voting. According to reports from Saigon, 83 percent of the 5.85 million registered voters cast their ballots yesterday. Many of them risked reprisals threatened by the Vietcong. A successful election has long been seen as the keystone in President Johnson's policy of encouraging the growth of constitutional processes in South Vietnam.

– "U.S. Encouraged by Vietnam Vote," New York Times, Sept. 4, 1967
[/b][/quote] [/b][/quote]
How many North Vietnemese voted??? Great comparison! :lol:

bitonti · 02-01-2005, 03:04 PM

how many terrorists voted?

those that do not heed the failures of history are doomed to repeat them

Come Back to NY · 02-01-2005, 03:08 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:04 PM
[b] how many terrorists voted?

those that do not heed the failures of history are doomed to repeat them [/b][/quote]

I don't know...why are you concerned for their rights?

I guarentee you this- more Sunni's/anti-American Iraqi's got a chance to vote and took part as opposed to the North Vietnemese who voted in '67.

and those who do nothing but marginalize and ***** are doomed to failure.

bitonti · 02-01-2005, 03:09 PM

that's real catchy - did you make that up just now?

the point of this thread is that elections can be held successfully and still the war can be lost.

if you'd rather ignore history and spend your time bashing me instead that's your business buddy

Come Back to NY · 02-01-2005, 03:10 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti+Feb 1 2005, 03:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (bitonti @ Feb 1 2005, 03:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:08 PM
[b]
and those who do nothing but marginalize and ***** are doomed to failure. [/b][/quote]
that's real catchy - did you make that up just now? [/b][/quote]
I knew you could relate to it.

Come Back to NY · 02-01-2005, 03:14 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:09 PM
[b] that's real catchy - did you make that up just now?

the point of this thread is that elections can be held successfully and still the war can be lost.

if you'd rather ignore history and spend your time bashing me instead that's your business buddy [/b][/quote]
better said...it is an absolutely pointless thread- you are trying to compare one election 38 years ago in which half a dived nation voted as compared to an election two days ago, which we still don't have the results from, in which everyone had the option to vote.

bitonti · 02-01-2005, 03:21 PM

yeah and you see absolutely no IRONY in the fact that the side you are promoting (what we are doing is right/things are getting better in Iraq/terrorism is weakening) is supported by exactly ZERO concrete evidence or historical basis??

at least i brought up something that was at least SOMEWHAT analgous. What have you brought to this discussion besides a challenge to see who can piss the furthest?

whatever bro - time will ultimately tell who was right about this thing - and make no mistake the early returns have not been kind for Bush's endless pointless war.

Come Back to NY · 02-01-2005, 03:22 PM

If you want to make a good comparision why don't you talk about the liberal demonstrators from '68-'72 and how the dirtbags on the left, many who hold office today as democratic politicians, helped the enemy with their anti-American actions-something the NVA has come out and said was a huge benefit to them????

bitonti · 02-01-2005, 03:24 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:22 PM
[b] If you want to make a good comparision why don't you talk about the liberal demonstrators from '68-'72 and how the dirtbags on the left, many who hold office today as democratic politicians, helped the enemy with their anti-American actions-something the NVA has come out and said was a huge benefit to them???? [/b][/quote]
what are you even talking about? we lost VIETNAM not because of protestors but because it didn't have a realistic goal. let me guess you believe that if there were no protests South Vietnam would be a democracy RIGHT NOW?

we lost because we had no reason to be there in the first place... sound familiar?

jets5ever · 02-01-2005, 03:27 PM

deleted

Come Back to NY · 02-01-2005, 03:29 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti+Feb 1 2005, 03:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (bitonti @ Feb 1 2005, 03:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:22 PM
[b] If you want to make a good comparision why don't you talk about the liberal demonstrators from '68-'72 and how the dirtbags on the left, many who hold office today as democratic politicians, helped the enemy with their anti-American actions-something the NVA has come out and said was a huge benefit to them???? [/b][/quote]
what are you even talking about? we lost VIETNAM not because of protestors but because it didn't have a realistic goal. let me guess you believe that if there were no protests South Vietnam would be a democracy RIGHT NOW?

we lost because we had no reason to be there in the first place... sound familiar? [/b][/quote]
what I am talking about is documneted history- whether you want to believe it or not- the dirtbags on the left 35 years ago- in similiar fashion to the one's today- gave aid and comfort to the enemy and helped prolong the war.

There is a big difference though, I'll grant you that- unlike LBJ who tried to run the war from the WH- President Bush will let his field commanders take care of the situation. Vietnam should've been done and finished much sooner had LBJ not left our military personnel hog-tied.

And if you refuse to see the goals of this campaign, that's fine- the end result will be your side's continual defeat every November.

bitonti · 02-01-2005, 03:32 PM

5ever why for f--ks sake just for once - can't you address the contents of the post instead of the character of the poster?

who are you to tell what i know and what i don't? You want to disagree that's fine but this petty attacking bulls--t is for children.

bitonti · 02-01-2005, 03:35 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:29 PM
[b] And if you refuse to see the goals of this campaign, that's fine- the end result will be your side's continual defeat every November. [/b][/quote]
CBNY the only side i am worried about losing is the AMERICAN side. you aren't a REPUBLICAN and im not a DEMOCRAT we are BOTH AMERICANS. They don't revoke your citizenship based on your vote.

so remember when you gear up to "attack the other side" you are doing nothing but ****ting where you live.

bitonti · 02-01-2005, 03:37 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:29 PM
[b] Vietnam should've been done and finished much sooner had LBJ not left our military personnel hog-tied.
[/b][/quote]
the WH never could allow the military to do their jobs because China was backing the North - hence we should have never been there in the first place - it was an unwinnable proposition from the outset.... and we LOST.

jets5ever · 02-01-2005, 03:37 PM

deleted

Come Back to NY · 02-01-2005, 03:41 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti+Feb 1 2005, 03:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (bitonti @ Feb 1 2005, 03:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:29 PM
[b] Vietnam should've been done and finished much sooner had LBJ not left our military personnel hog-tied.
[/b][/quote]
the WH never could allow the military to do their jobs because China was backing the North - hence we should have never been there in the first place - it was an unwinnable proposition from the outset.... and we LOST. [/b][/quote]
I see...maybe you should talk to some of the guys on this board who were there...ask them how whenever the NVA wanted a "timeout" all they had to do was cross into Cambodia as American troops were not allowed to fire across the border, even if ambushed. LBJ hog tied the troops.

Read the book "We were soldiers" by Col. Hal Moore and Joe Gallagher.

As far as it being UNWINNABLE...you'll never win a football game if the offense doesn't cross the fifty yard line.

bitonti · 02-01-2005, 03:41 PM

[b]5ever[/b] if you think my mind is made up on IRAQ then guess what YOUR mind is made up on my posts - why don't you save everyone some time and just not post the same g0ddamn thing every day?

You don't think i have anything of value to add. I don't know as much as I think I do. You are right all the time and everyone who doesn't agree is wrong. Duely noted.

bitonti · 02-01-2005, 03:45 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:41 PM
[b] As far as it being UNWINNABLE...you'll never win a football game if the offense doesn't cross the fifty yard line. [/b][/quote]
i don't disagree at all -

all im trying to illustrate with this blurb is that it is possible (and it has happen) when the US has had a foreign country hold a successful democratic election in a time of war and that democracy to later fail. Do with this information as you please.

Come Back to NY · 02-01-2005, 03:46 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti+Feb 1 2005, 03:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (bitonti @ Feb 1 2005, 03:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:41 PM
[b] As far as it being UNWINNABLE...you'll never win a football game if the offense doesn't cross the fifty yard line. [/b][/quote]
i don't disagree at all -

all im trying to illustrate with this blurb is that it is possible (and it has happen) when the US has had a foreign country hold a successful democratic election in a time of war and that democracy to later fail. Do with this information as you please. [/b][/quote]
you are comparing apples and oranges- unlike Iraq the whole of Vietnam did not vote in '67.

02-01-2005, 03:00 PM	#1
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[quote][b]United States officials were surprised and heartened today at the size of turnout in South Vietnam's presidential election despite a Vietcong terrorist campaign to disrupt the voting. According to reports from Saigon, 83 percent of the 5.85 million registered voters cast their ballots yesterday. Many of them risked reprisals threatened by the Vietcong. A successful election has long been seen as the keystone in President Johnson's policy of encouraging the growth of constitutional processes in South Vietnam. – "U.S. Encouraged by Vietnam Vote," New York Times, Sept. 4, 1967 [/b][/quote]

02-01-2005, 03:01 PM	#2
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:00 PM [b] [quote][b]United States officials were surprised and heartened today at the size of turnout in South Vietnam's presidential election despite a Vietcong terrorist campaign to disrupt the voting. According to reports from Saigon, 83 percent of the 5.85 million registered voters cast their ballots yesterday. Many of them risked reprisals threatened by the Vietcong. A successful election has long been seen as the keystone in President Johnson's policy of encouraging the growth of constitutional processes in South Vietnam. – "U.S. Encouraged by Vietnam Vote," New York Times, Sept. 4, 1967 [/b][/quote] [/b][/quote] How many North Vietnemese voted??? Great comparison! :lol:

02-01-2005, 03:04 PM	#3
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	how many terrorists voted? those that do not heed the failures of history are doomed to repeat them

02-01-2005, 03:08 PM	#4
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:04 PM [b] how many terrorists voted? those that do not heed the failures of history are doomed to repeat them [/b][/quote] I don't know...why are you concerned for their rights? I guarentee you this- more Sunni's/anti-American Iraqi's got a chance to vote and took part as opposed to the North Vietnemese who voted in '67. and those who do nothing but marginalize and ***** are doomed to failure.

02-01-2005, 03:09 PM	#5
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	that's real catchy - did you make that up just now? the point of this thread is that elections can be held successfully and still the war can be lost. if you'd rather ignore history and spend your time bashing me instead that's your business buddy

02-01-2005, 03:10 PM	#6
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti+Feb 1 2005, 03:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (bitonti @ Feb 1 2005, 03:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:08 PM [b] and those who do nothing but marginalize and ***** are doomed to failure. [/b][/quote] that's real catchy - did you make that up just now? [/b][/quote] I knew you could relate to it.

02-01-2005, 03:14 PM	#7
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:09 PM [b] that's real catchy - did you make that up just now? the point of this thread is that elections can be held successfully and still the war can be lost. if you'd rather ignore history and spend your time bashing me instead that's your business buddy [/b][/quote] better said...it is an absolutely pointless thread- you are trying to compare one election 38 years ago in which half a dived nation voted as compared to an election two days ago, which we still don't have the results from, in which everyone had the option to vote.

02-01-2005, 03:21 PM	#8
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	yeah and you see absolutely no IRONY in the fact that the side you are promoting (what we are doing is right/things are getting better in Iraq/terrorism is weakening) is supported by exactly ZERO concrete evidence or historical basis?? at least i brought up something that was at least SOMEWHAT analgous. What have you brought to this discussion besides a challenge to see who can piss the furthest? whatever bro - time will ultimately tell who was right about this thing - and make no mistake the early returns have not been kind for Bush's endless pointless war.

02-01-2005, 03:22 PM	#9
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	If you want to make a good comparision why don't you talk about the liberal demonstrators from '68-'72 and how the dirtbags on the left, many who hold office today as democratic politicians, helped the enemy with their anti-American actions-something the NVA has come out and said was a huge benefit to them????

02-01-2005, 03:24 PM	#10
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:22 PM [b] If you want to make a good comparision why don't you talk about the liberal demonstrators from '68-'72 and how the dirtbags on the left, many who hold office today as democratic politicians, helped the enemy with their anti-American actions-something the NVA has come out and said was a huge benefit to them???? [/b][/quote] what are you even talking about? we lost VIETNAM not because of protestors but because it didn't have a realistic goal. let me guess you believe that if there were no protests South Vietnam would be a democracy RIGHT NOW? we lost because we had no reason to be there in the first place... sound familiar?

02-01-2005, 03:27 PM	#11
jets5ever Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Boston Posts: 11,692	deleted

02-01-2005, 03:29 PM	#12
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti+Feb 1 2005, 03:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (bitonti @ Feb 1 2005, 03:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:22 PM [b] If you want to make a good comparision why don't you talk about the liberal demonstrators from '68-'72 and how the dirtbags on the left, many who hold office today as democratic politicians, helped the enemy with their anti-American actions-something the NVA has come out and said was a huge benefit to them???? [/b][/quote] what are you even talking about? we lost VIETNAM not because of protestors but because it didn't have a realistic goal. let me guess you believe that if there were no protests South Vietnam would be a democracy RIGHT NOW? we lost because we had no reason to be there in the first place... sound familiar? [/b][/quote] what I am talking about is documneted history- whether you want to believe it or not- the dirtbags on the left 35 years ago- in similiar fashion to the one's today- gave aid and comfort to the enemy and helped prolong the war. There is a big difference though, I'll grant you that- unlike LBJ who tried to run the war from the WH- President Bush will let his field commanders take care of the situation. Vietnam should've been done and finished much sooner had LBJ not left our military personnel hog-tied. And if you refuse to see the goals of this campaign, that's fine- the end result will be your side's continual defeat every November.

02-01-2005, 03:32 PM	#13
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	5ever why for f--ks sake just for once - can't you address the contents of the post instead of the character of the poster? who are you to tell what i know and what i don't? You want to disagree that's fine but this petty attacking bulls--t is for children.

02-01-2005, 03:35 PM	#14
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:29 PM [b] And if you refuse to see the goals of this campaign, that's fine- the end result will be your side's continual defeat every November. [/b][/quote] CBNY the only side i am worried about losing is the AMERICAN side. you aren't a REPUBLICAN and im not a DEMOCRAT we are BOTH AMERICANS. They don't revoke your citizenship based on your vote. so remember when you gear up to "attack the other side" you are doing nothing but ****ting where you live.

02-01-2005, 03:37 PM	#15
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:29 PM [b] Vietnam should've been done and finished much sooner had LBJ not left our military personnel hog-tied. [/b][/quote] the WH never could allow the military to do their jobs because China was backing the North - hence we should have never been there in the first place - it was an unwinnable proposition from the outset.... and we LOST.

02-01-2005, 03:41 PM	#17
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti+Feb 1 2005, 03:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (bitonti @ Feb 1 2005, 03:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:29 PM [b] Vietnam should've been done and finished much sooner had LBJ not left our military personnel hog-tied. [/b][/quote] the WH never could allow the military to do their jobs because China was backing the North - hence we should have never been there in the first place - it was an unwinnable proposition from the outset.... and we LOST. [/b][/quote] I see...maybe you should talk to some of the guys on this board who were there...ask them how whenever the NVA wanted a "timeout" all they had to do was cross into Cambodia as American troops were not allowed to fire across the border, even if ambushed. LBJ hog tied the troops. Read the book "We were soldiers" by Col. Hal Moore and Joe Gallagher. As far as it being UNWINNABLE...you'll never win a football game if the offense doesn't cross the fifty yard line.

02-01-2005, 03:45 PM	#19
bitonti searching Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philly Posts: 38,786	[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:41 PM [b] As far as it being UNWINNABLE...you'll never win a football game if the offense doesn't cross the fifty yard line. [/b][/quote] i don't disagree at all - all im trying to illustrate with this blurb is that it is possible (and it has happen) when the US has had a foreign country hold a successful democratic election in a time of war and that democracy to later fail. Do with this information as you please.

02-01-2005, 03:46 PM	#20
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[quote][i]Originally posted by bitonti+Feb 1 2005, 03:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (bitonti @ Feb 1 2005, 03:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 1 2005, 03:41 PM [b] As far as it being UNWINNABLE...you'll never win a football game if the offense doesn't cross the fifty yard line. [/b][/quote] i don't disagree at all - all im trying to illustrate with this blurb is that it is possible (and it has happen) when the US has had a foreign country hold a successful democratic election in a time of war and that democracy to later fail. Do with this information as you please. [/b][/quote] you are comparing apples and oranges- unlike Iraq the whole of Vietnam did not vote in '67.