Hillary Clinton and John Kerry

DirtyPhillyJetPhan · 02-17-2005, 06:33 PM

Hillary and John Kerry have a new initiative: allow former convicted felons to vote. Their calculation is likely that since most low life scum vote for Democrats, here is an opportunity for the Dems to tap into a vast pool of human excrement:

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=512&u=/ap/20050217/ap_on_go_co/voting_machines_clinton_1&printer=1]Link to article[/url]

Section109Row15 · 02-17-2005, 11:32 PM

Why not let them vote. Isn't this country about second chances? They are still elligible for a draft, they still have to pay taxes, and they have a tough enough job trying to find employment with a conviction on their record. Plus many people conviced of crimes were convicted for drugs or other non-violent crimes. Personally I think prisoners should be allowed to vote as well.

Warfish · 02-17-2005, 11:36 PM

If it's up to me?

--Persons convinced of NON-Violent crimes can vote 10 years after their are released, barring no additional legal issues (i.e. no felony convictions of any kind, no violent misdameanor convictions of any kind).

--Persons convicted of a VIOLENT crime (i.e. Murder, Assult, Rape, etc) lose their right to vote permanently, no exceptions.

I think that would be fair and firm, while retaining the American value of "Second Chances".

Come Back to NY · 02-18-2005, 12:12 AM

What's funny is while they want to let criminals vote they do not fight to make sure the people voting are in fact who they claim to be....i.e., if they are concerned about people voting they should fight to require proper ID shown at the voting booths so no one can steal your vote.

Warfish · 02-18-2005, 12:15 AM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 18 2005, 12:12 AM
[b] What's funny is while they want to let criminals vote they do not fight to make sure the people voting are in fact who they claim to be....i.e., if they are concerned about people voting they should fight to require proper ID shown at the voting booths so no one can steal your vote. [/b][/quote]
I agree. A Valid ID should be a minimum requirement to cast a vote. Having a valid ID ensures voter fraud does not occur nealry in the numbers possible today.

And I apologize, but ANYONE who claims that needing an ID to vote is somehow "racist" is just plain old wrong.

Voting is one of our most valuble rights as Americans and we should both protect it and respect it as such.

DireJet38 · 02-18-2005, 03:46 AM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 17 2005, 11:12 PM
[b] What's funny is while they want to let criminals vote they do not fight to make sure the people voting are in fact who they claim to be....i.e., if they are concerned about people voting they should fight to require proper ID shown at the voting booths so no one can steal your vote. [/b][/quote]
But, who says criminals weren't placed in their profession of crime due to their

socio-economic class? These men or women might know more than any of us, and

we attempt to discard them because they have past experience in the America

penal system?

Would you deny Jack London the vote back in the 1900's?

Come Back to NY · 02-18-2005, 09:05 AM

[quote][i]Originally posted by DireJet38+Feb 18 2005, 03:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (DireJet38 @ Feb 18 2005, 03:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 17 2005, 11:12 PM
[b] What's funny is while they want to let criminals vote they do not fight to make sure the people voting are in fact who they claim to be....i.e., if they are concerned about people voting they should fight to require proper ID shown at the voting booths so no one can steal your vote. [/b][/quote]
But, who says criminals weren't placed in their profession of crime due to their

socio-economic class? These men or women might know more than any of us, and

we attempt to discard them because they have past experience in the America

penal system?

Would you deny Jack London the vote back in the 1900's? [/b][/quote]
no one is "placed" in a life of crime...it is a choice.

sackdance · 02-18-2005, 10:13 AM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY+Feb 18 2005, 09:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Come Back to NY @ Feb 18 2005, 09:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by DireJet38@Feb 18 2005, 03:46 AM
[b] <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 17 2005, 11:12 PM
[b] What's funny is while they want to let criminals vote they do not fight to make sure the people voting are in fact who they claim to be....i.e., if they are concerned about people voting they should fight to require proper ID shown at the voting booths so no one can steal your vote. [/b][/quote]
But, who says criminals weren't placed in their profession of crime due to their

socio-economic class? These men or women might know more than any of us, and

we attempt to discard them because they have past experience in the America

penal system?

Would you deny Jack London the vote back in the 1900's? [/b][/quote]
no one is "placed" in a life of crime...it is a choice. [/b][/quote]
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. There is no more effective deterrent to crime. "Felony" must be kept a serious word.

I well acquainted with many ex-cons, good guys, the kind that the penalty system would like to show as examples of rehabilitation. Individually, they deserve to vote - they are mature enough and responsible enough. But, through all these years and all these elections, I've never heard one of them claim or complain that they deserve to vote. It seems, to me, that they've accepted the responsibilities of their actions.

Now, if we should see a television special sometime, we'll see some ex-cons propped up for the camera and they will have compelling stories. They will be complaining about justice. They will feel like they are owed something. They will feel shortchanged. That's fine, that's their right to feel that way, but I'll tell you one thing right now - they are not sorry for what they did, if they are free and still chafing at their penalty.

JerryK · 02-18-2005, 12:28 PM

Are we talking about people SERVING sentences, or those who've "paid their debt"?

I think those in jail should waive voting and some other rights...but only during incarceration.

If the point of Jail is to pay a debt, then once paid, the slate is CLEAN.

Frankly the Republicans should support this, but they're too committed to alienating every non-christian in the country under $100k

Come Back to NY · 02-18-2005, 12:46 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by JerryK[/i]@Feb 18 2005, 12:28 PM
[b] Are we talking about people SERVING sentences, or those who've "paid their debt"?

I think those in jail should waive voting and some other rights...but only during incarceration.

If the point of Jail is to pay a debt, then once paid, the slate is CLEAN.

Frankly the Republicans should support this, but they're too committed to alienating every non-christian in the country under $100k [/b][/quote]
as opposed to the dims who love poor people so much they make sure they remain poor forever so they can count on their votes??

DireJet38 · 02-18-2005, 05:16 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY+Feb 18 2005, 08:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Come Back to NY @ Feb 18 2005, 08:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by DireJet38@Feb 18 2005, 03:46 AM
[b] <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 17 2005, 11:12 PM
[b] What's funny is while they want to let criminals vote they do not fight to make sure the people voting are in fact who they claim to be....i.e., if they are concerned about people voting they should fight to require proper ID shown at the voting booths so no one can steal your vote. [/b][/quote]
But, who says criminals weren't placed in their profession of crime due to their

socio-economic class? These men or women might know more than any of us, and

we attempt to discard them because they have past experience in the America

penal system?

Would you deny Jack London the vote back in the 1900's? [/b][/quote]
no one is "placed" in a life of crime...it is a choice. [/b][/quote]
I agree with you somewhat on your point but that's because you most likely come from a similar middle to upper class background such as myself. It is quite easy for us to assume that there are other options beyond crime because we have them spoon fed to us. I'm just saying that people who are not as fortunate and have given up hope in a system that keeps them at the bottom of the food chain may think about the issue a bit differntly.

I agree with you that people are not "placed" in crime also because self determination and the ability to suceed is available to everybody in America, but it's not that easy for the proloteriat to jump from class to class in our capitalistic system. Don't get me wrong I love capitalism because my family and I have benefited greatly from it but when you look at other's who remain enslaved by capitalism it's a different story. Sure me and you think that a life of crime is purely an option but others might consider it the only realistic option.

Piper · 02-18-2005, 05:44 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by JerryK[/i]@Feb 18 2005, 12:28 PM
[b] Frankly the Republicans should support this, but they're too committed to alienating every non-christian in the country under $100k [/b][/quote]
Another well thought out statement.

Come Back to NY · 02-18-2005, 07:48 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by DireJet38+Feb 18 2005, 05:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (DireJet38 @ Feb 18 2005, 05:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by Come Back to NY@Feb 18 2005, 08:05 AM
[b] [quote]Originally posted by DireJet38@Feb 18 2005, 03:46 AM
[b] <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 17 2005, 11:12 PM
[b] What's funny is while they want to let criminals vote they do not fight to make sure the people voting are in fact who they claim to be....i.e., if they are concerned about people voting they should fight to require proper ID shown at the voting booths so no one can steal your vote. [/b][/quote]
But, who says criminals weren't placed in their profession of crime due to their

socio-economic class? These men or women might know more than any of us, and

we attempt to discard them because they have past experience in the America

penal system?

Would you deny Jack London the vote back in the 1900's? [/b][/quote]
no one is "placed" in a life of crime...it is a choice. [/b][/quote]
I agree with you somewhat on your point but that's because you most likely come from a similar middle to upper class background such as myself. [/b][/quote]
That's a hell of an assumption and wrong one at that.

DireJet38 · 02-18-2005, 09:13 PM

It was and I apologize for it I didn't know your background, but do you still refute my argument?

Come Back to NY · 02-18-2005, 09:34 PM

[quote][i]Originally posted by DireJet38[/i]@Feb 18 2005, 09:13 PM
[b] It was and I apologize for it I didn't know your background, but do you still refute my argument? [/b][/quote]
Don't apologize...there plenty of smack for everyone here.

Obviously there are always people who have greater obstacles to overcome then the next person; sometimes they are seemingly impossible obstacles....

When I was a kid there were five of us who hung around- one kid tragically died in a bicycle accident delivering newspapers on a Christmass Eve when he was 13- the rest of us split up.

Two went the wrong way- one guy freaked out on angel dust and the other spent most of his life in and out of jail. Fortunately, my best friend of 30-years and I chose the other path. We all came from similiar backgrounds; in fact the kid who spent his life in and out of jail came from the only household that actually had a new car in the family.

I'm not naive- I've had it a lot easier then most of the kids in the south bronx, but I also think (as Dr Bill Cosby says) my upbringing (parents/discipline/etc) made doing the right thing a lot more acceptable then going the wrong way.

I think the bigger issue here is many entitlement programs entrap people in a life of misery and poverty. When you get things for nothing you come to expect them...when you have to work your ass off for something you tend to realize what you have to do. (Ironically, the first statment could also apply to the very wealthy)

02-17-2005, 06:33 PM	#1
DirtyPhillyJetPhan Rookie Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 82	Hillary and John Kerry have a new initiative: allow former convicted felons to vote. Their calculation is likely that since most low life scum vote for Democrats, here is an opportunity for the Dems to tap into a vast pool of human excrement: [url=http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=512&u=/ap/20050217/ap_on_go_co/voting_machines_clinton_1&printer=1]Link to article[/url]

02-17-2005, 11:32 PM	#2
Section109Row15 Hall Of Fame Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 3,406	Why not let them vote. Isn't this country about second chances? They are still elligible for a draft, they still have to pay taxes, and they have a tough enough job trying to find employment with a conviction on their record. Plus many people conviced of crimes were convicted for drugs or other non-violent crimes. Personally I think prisoners should be allowed to vote as well.

02-17-2005, 11:36 PM	#3
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	If it's up to me? --Persons convinced of NON-Violent crimes can vote 10 years after their are released, barring no additional legal issues (i.e. no felony convictions of any kind, no violent misdameanor convictions of any kind). --Persons convicted of a VIOLENT crime (i.e. Murder, Assult, Rape, etc) lose their right to vote permanently, no exceptions. I think that would be fair and firm, while retaining the American value of "Second Chances".

02-18-2005, 12:12 AM	#4
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	What's funny is while they want to let criminals vote they do not fight to make sure the people voting are in fact who they claim to be....i.e., if they are concerned about people voting they should fight to require proper ID shown at the voting booths so no one can steal your vote.

02-18-2005, 12:15 AM	#5
Warfish JetsInsider.com Legend Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 35,000	[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 18 2005, 12:12 AM [b] What's funny is while they want to let criminals vote they do not fight to make sure the people voting are in fact who they claim to be....i.e., if they are concerned about people voting they should fight to require proper ID shown at the voting booths so no one can steal your vote. [/b][/quote] I agree. A Valid ID should be a minimum requirement to cast a vote. Having a valid ID ensures voter fraud does not occur nealry in the numbers possible today. And I apologize, but ANYONE who claims that needing an ID to vote is somehow "racist" is just plain old wrong. Voting is one of our most valuble rights as Americans and we should both protect it and respect it as such.

02-18-2005, 03:46 AM	#6
DireJet38 Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 468	[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 17 2005, 11:12 PM [b] What's funny is while they want to let criminals vote they do not fight to make sure the people voting are in fact who they claim to be....i.e., if they are concerned about people voting they should fight to require proper ID shown at the voting booths so no one can steal your vote. [/b][/quote] But, who says criminals weren't placed in their profession of crime due to their socio-economic class? These men or women might know more than any of us, and we attempt to discard them because they have past experience in the America penal system? Would you deny Jack London the vote back in the 1900's?

02-18-2005, 09:05 AM	#7
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[quote][i]Originally posted by DireJet38+Feb 18 2005, 03:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (DireJet38 @ Feb 18 2005, 03:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 17 2005, 11:12 PM [b] What's funny is while they want to let criminals vote they do not fight to make sure the people voting are in fact who they claim to be....i.e., if they are concerned about people voting they should fight to require proper ID shown at the voting booths so no one can steal your vote. [/b][/quote] But, who says criminals weren't placed in their profession of crime due to their socio-economic class? These men or women might know more than any of us, and we attempt to discard them because they have past experience in the America penal system? Would you deny Jack London the vote back in the 1900's? [/b][/quote] no one is "placed" in a life of crime...it is a choice.

02-18-2005, 10:13 AM	#8
sackdance All Pro Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,886	[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY+Feb 18 2005, 09:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Come Back to NY @ Feb 18 2005, 09:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by DireJet38@Feb 18 2005, 03:46 AM [b] <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 17 2005, 11:12 PM [b] What's funny is while they want to let criminals vote they do not fight to make sure the people voting are in fact who they claim to be....i.e., if they are concerned about people voting they should fight to require proper ID shown at the voting booths so no one can steal your vote. [/b][/quote] But, who says criminals weren't placed in their profession of crime due to their socio-economic class? These men or women might know more than any of us, and we attempt to discard them because they have past experience in the America penal system? Would you deny Jack London the vote back in the 1900's? [/b][/quote] no one is "placed" in a life of crime...it is a choice. [/b][/quote] If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. There is no more effective deterrent to crime. "Felony" must be kept a serious word. I well acquainted with many ex-cons, good guys, the kind that the penalty system would like to show as examples of rehabilitation. Individually, they deserve to vote - they are mature enough and responsible enough. But, through all these years and all these elections, I've never heard one of them claim or complain that they deserve to vote. It seems, to me, that they've accepted the responsibilities of their actions. Now, if we should see a television special sometime, we'll see some ex-cons propped up for the camera and they will have compelling stories. They will be complaining about justice. They will feel like they are owed something. They will feel shortchanged. That's fine, that's their right to feel that way, but I'll tell you one thing right now - they are not sorry for what they did, if they are free and still chafing at their penalty.

02-18-2005, 12:28 PM	#9
JerryK All Pro Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lansing Posts: 1,337	Are we talking about people SERVING sentences, or those who've "paid their debt"? I think those in jail should waive voting and some other rights...but only during incarceration. If the point of Jail is to pay a debt, then once paid, the slate is CLEAN. Frankly the Republicans should support this, but they're too committed to alienating every non-christian in the country under $100k

02-18-2005, 12:46 PM	#10
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[quote][i]Originally posted by JerryK[/i]@Feb 18 2005, 12:28 PM [b] Are we talking about people SERVING sentences, or those who've "paid their debt"? I think those in jail should waive voting and some other rights...but only during incarceration. If the point of Jail is to pay a debt, then once paid, the slate is CLEAN. Frankly the Republicans should support this, but they're too committed to alienating every non-christian in the country under $100k [/b][/quote] as opposed to the dims who love poor people so much they make sure they remain poor forever so they can count on their votes??

02-18-2005, 05:16 PM	#11
DireJet38 Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 468	[quote][i]Originally posted by Come Back to NY+Feb 18 2005, 08:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (Come Back to NY @ Feb 18 2005, 08:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by DireJet38@Feb 18 2005, 03:46 AM [b] <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 17 2005, 11:12 PM [b] What's funny is while they want to let criminals vote they do not fight to make sure the people voting are in fact who they claim to be....i.e., if they are concerned about people voting they should fight to require proper ID shown at the voting booths so no one can steal your vote. [/b][/quote] But, who says criminals weren't placed in their profession of crime due to their socio-economic class? These men or women might know more than any of us, and we attempt to discard them because they have past experience in the America penal system? Would you deny Jack London the vote back in the 1900's? [/b][/quote] no one is "placed" in a life of crime...it is a choice. [/b][/quote] I agree with you somewhat on your point but that's because you most likely come from a similar middle to upper class background such as myself. It is quite easy for us to assume that there are other options beyond crime because we have them spoon fed to us. I'm just saying that people who are not as fortunate and have given up hope in a system that keeps them at the bottom of the food chain may think about the issue a bit differntly. I agree with you that people are not "placed" in crime also because self determination and the ability to suceed is available to everybody in America, but it's not that easy for the proloteriat to jump from class to class in our capitalistic system. Don't get me wrong I love capitalism because my family and I have benefited greatly from it but when you look at other's who remain enslaved by capitalism it's a different story. Sure me and you think that a life of crime is purely an option but others might consider it the only realistic option.

02-18-2005, 05:44 PM	#12
Piper Hall Of Fame Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: L.I. NY (where the Jets used to be from) Posts: 13,197	[quote][i]Originally posted by JerryK[/i]@Feb 18 2005, 12:28 PM [b] Frankly the Republicans should support this, but they're too committed to alienating every non-christian in the country under $100k [/b][/quote] Another well thought out statement.

02-18-2005, 07:48 PM	#13
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[quote][i]Originally posted by DireJet38+Feb 18 2005, 05:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>[b]QUOTE[/b] (DireJet38 @ Feb 18 2005, 05:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [quote]Originally posted by Come Back to NY@Feb 18 2005, 08:05 AM [b] [quote]Originally posted by DireJet38@Feb 18 2005, 03:46 AM [b] <!--QuoteBegin-Come Back to NY[/i]@Feb 17 2005, 11:12 PM [b] What's funny is while they want to let criminals vote they do not fight to make sure the people voting are in fact who they claim to be....i.e., if they are concerned about people voting they should fight to require proper ID shown at the voting booths so no one can steal your vote. [/b][/quote] But, who says criminals weren't placed in their profession of crime due to their socio-economic class? These men or women might know more than any of us, and we attempt to discard them because they have past experience in the America penal system? Would you deny Jack London the vote back in the 1900's? [/b][/quote] no one is "placed" in a life of crime...it is a choice. [/b][/quote] I agree with you somewhat on your point but that's because you most likely come from a similar middle to upper class background such as myself. [/b][/quote] That's a hell of an assumption and wrong one at that.

02-18-2005, 09:13 PM	#14
DireJet38 Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 468	It was and I apologize for it I didn't know your background, but do you still refute my argument?

02-18-2005, 09:34 PM	#15
Come Back to NY Making lotsa $$$ off obama's stupidity... Jets Insider VIP JetsInsider.com Legend Charter JI Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 31,407	[quote][i]Originally posted by DireJet38[/i]@Feb 18 2005, 09:13 PM [b] It was and I apologize for it I didn't know your background, but do you still refute my argument? [/b][/quote] Don't apologize...there plenty of smack for everyone here. Obviously there are always people who have greater obstacles to overcome then the next person; sometimes they are seemingly impossible obstacles.... When I was a kid there were five of us who hung around- one kid tragically died in a bicycle accident delivering newspapers on a Christmass Eve when he was 13- the rest of us split up. Two went the wrong way- one guy freaked out on angel dust and the other spent most of his life in and out of jail. Fortunately, my best friend of 30-years and I chose the other path. We all came from similiar backgrounds; in fact the kid who spent his life in and out of jail came from the only household that actually had a new car in the family. I'm not naive- I've had it a lot easier then most of the kids in the south bronx, but I also think (as Dr Bill Cosby says) my upbringing (parents/discipline/etc) made doing the right thing a lot more acceptable then going the wrong way. I think the bigger issue here is many entitlement programs entrap people in a life of misery and poverty. When you get things for nothing you come to expect them...when you have to work your ass off for something you tend to realize what you have to do. (Ironically, the first statment could also apply to the very wealthy)